1391 replies to this topic

[kendama]

Now, since I am not really a fan of SAO and don't know the others, I'll skip the comparisons and comment on the chapter.

 

This author is competent. The main character is charismatic and the plot is engaging. I also love the humour.

 

In this chapter, our suspicions are confirmed. Han Jee-han is, as far as we know, the only ability user who can tell others' levels. And even their names! Shin Sun-il hasn't realised it, but the advantage conferred by that on Jee-han is enormous.

 

For one thing, he can tell whether he can fight or whether it is better to escape or lie low given the chance. And I think this is going to be instrumental in the next chapters, because this just might become a friend-rescue-friend routine.

 

Shin Sun-il is probably going to seek out the Black Summoner to give him retribution for risking his friend's life (or maybe he - and other espers, too? - is already tracking him for other reasons, although that girl didn't seem to know him). But as far we know, he doesn't know his opponent is 18 levels above him (just as that girl back then probably also didn't, given how confident she was). And it makes sense, because unless power is tested to its limits, people above a certain level are probably indistinguishable from each other.

 

I really like how the author depicted Shin Sun-il, by the way. You noticed how he used almost the same close-up angle on his eyes while he was smiling that he used in the previous chapter when he was oozing murderous intent against whom he perceived to be an impersonator of his only friend?

 

Well, I think Sun-il's attempt to engage the Black Summoner will backfire badly. And in the end, one of Jee-han's banal skills will save the day.

 

Also, the way all aspects of the supernatural and real world are integrated into and even get showy names in Jee-han's gamer screens is really a nice touch, I was chuckling right along Sun-il.

[NullApostle]

I think the Black Summoner collected the zombies to be able to summon them later. His creatures have to come from somewhere, right?

 

Anyway, the two chapters were pretty good. Explaining the basis for powers in the world laid the foundation for the future. There seem to be some interesting abilities out there. I wonder what abilities Jee-han is able to learn.

 

INB4, full-blooded male teeneager with raging hormones . New Skill: Masturbation was learned.

[Firehorse32]

But why were the zombies there in the first place and in such numbers. Black Summoner didn't create them. I bet Gaia did and BS's days are numbered because he broke the Intervention Law. 

 

It would also be kind of interesting if the MC's mom was actually an incarnation of Gaia itself and his existence is as sort of a clean up on aisle three purpose.

 

MC has a good friend. Not many would go for the insta-kill the moment they thought their buddy had been taken out. Or take the time to explain in some detail about what is going on.

[JackApostrophe]

But why were the zombies there in the first place and in such numbers. Black Summoner didn't create them. I bet Gaia did and BS's days are numbered because he broke the Intervention Law. 

 

It would also be kind of interesting if the MC's mom was actually an incarnation of Gaia itself and his existence is as sort of a clean up on aisle three purpose.

 

MC has a good friend. Not many would go for the insta-kill the moment they thought their buddy had been taken out. Or take the time to explain in some detail about what is going on.

 

There's more than one type of Illusion Barrier, apparently, and judging from the description of Jee-Han's new ability one of those types is a "dungeon". You'd expect a dungeon to be filled with monsters.

 

From what was said I'm pretty sure Gaia creates all Illusion Barriers and everything that might be weird inside them, and all an ability user does is request that one be made where they are.

[sorrow]

• kendama I think you are over estimating the ability to see peoples levels the MCs' friend said he could do that for as long as he could remember. I bet almost every thing the MC can do others can to they will just have other names for the skills.

[kendama]

• kendama I think you are over estimating the ability to see peoples levels the MCs' friend said he could do that for as long as he could remember. I bet almost every thing the MC can do others can to they will just have other names for the skills.

Well, I am not saying that Jee-han can beat anyone at his level. His skills are very weak and trivial right now. And of course, his "Power Strike" and the accidentally acquired "Energy Bolt" are probably just fancy names for fairly typical supernatural abilities in this kind of series. (If you think about it, the most he can do against an enemy right now is to bludgeon them with an aluminium bat and hope it works.)

 

But no, what Sun-il said is that he can read the flow of qi, but if he were able to tell other people's abilities based on that, he would have known Jee-han became an esper the moment it happened, or at least when he was being punished by the teacher, because the power manifested then.

 

I'm not sure even that Sun-il was able to see the status, inventory and message screens that appeared when they were talking in chapters 7 and 8. Most likely he wasn't, for he asked for confirmation whether that was a game inventory.

 

Remember that in a quest, information is the most important thing. Jee-han is weak, but in having an exact measurement of his opponents' power and even having an idea of what kind of ability they have by seeing their "title" (Black Summoner and Soul Blaze Fist give immediately away their holders' general area of combat proficiency) is the kind of ability experienced users would kill to have.

 

For example, if I am right that Sun-il is going to seek out the Black Summoner to pay him back, would he change his approach if he knew his opponent is at level 46? I bet he would, a gap of 18 levels means that Sun-il against him is almost as hopeless - in principle - as it would be if Jee-han went against Sun-il (21-level gap). And you saw how powerless Jee-han was againt Sun-il's stranglehold.

[sorrow]

Spoiler

Well, I am not saying that Jee-han can beat anyone at his level. His skills are very weak and trivial right now. And of course, his "Power Strike" and the accidentally acquired "Energy Bolt" are probably just fancy names for fairly typical supernatural abilities in this kind of series. (If you think about it, the most he can do against an enemy right now is to bludgeon them with an aluminium bat and hope it works.)

 

But no, what Sun-il said is that he can read the flow of qi, but if he were able to tell other people's abilities based on that, he would have known Jee-han became an esper the moment it happened, or at least when he was being punished by the teacher, because the power manifested then.

 

I'm not sure even that Sun-il was able to see the status, inventory and message screens that appeared when they were talking in chapters 7 and 8. Most likely he wasn't, for he asked for confirmation whether that was a game inventory.

 

Remember that in a quest, information is the most important thing. Jee-han is weak, but in having an exact measurement of his opponents' power and even having an idea of what kind of ability they have by seeing their "title" (Black Summoner and Soul Blaze Fist give immediately away their holders' general area of combat proficiency) is the kind of ability experienced users would kill to have.

 

For example, if I am right that Sun-il is going to seek out the Black Summoner to pay him back, would he change his approach if he knew his opponent is at level 46? I bet he would, a gap of 18 levels means that Sun-il against him is almost as hopeless - in principle - as it would be if Jee-han went against Sun-il (21-level gap). And you saw how powerless Jee-han was againt Sun-il's stranglehold.

Just because he could see peoples Ki doesn't mean he would see the MC skill windows. I think of it like in Dragon Ball Kia (or many other manga and games) Goku and gang knew their opponents strength just from feeling their Ki but Freeza and his henchmen had to use their scouters but if they developed their skill at Ki detection it would be easy to know an opponents strength.

Spoiler

 

Sun-il had that ability since birth and became an e.s.p. user from honing that skill. I think it is very likely that his skill at telling an opponents' Ki power/level/strength is much stronger than the MCs' ability to simply see the level. Take for instance the time the MC saw the black slime he put it's level at 16 but there is no way a level 4 would be able to take on a lvl 16, so just because he can see an exact level doesn't mean that he is right, & if you could feel their Ki you wouldn't have to be looking at them or even be in the same building if your skill was good. Sun-il may very well be-able to see the MCs' Ki power but never got too suspicious because as the MC already said students levels range from 2-6, & he did seem like maybe he was a little suspicious about the MCs' resent power ups.           

[kendama]

@Sorrow:

 

I think this is too much speculation. We don't really know what "reading qi" entails. In my view, it's just the ability to read the flow and channel it around oneself, not around others. Until we have more information, we have to go by what is explicitly stated in the series itself, rather than compare it with other series. After all, anything goes so long as the author decides it. We have to be minimalistic in our assumptions.

 

In any case, I have been thinking about defeating the Level 16 slime. I think the simplest explanation so far is that the slime's level is the level a player has to be to summon or control it, not necessarily defeat it. After all, Jee-han easily defeated several level 8 zombies with relative ease despite being just a level 6 at the time. But I agree that we need further explanation here. Until we have, this is just inconsistent, but using this inconsistency to question Jee-han's readings would severely impair our understanding of the series.

 

(I believe the correct approach to apparent inconsistencies - at least early on in a new series - is to think of the simplest way around them instead of generalising them. In other words, "assume everything is correct and make the minimal assumption that would account for the apparent inconsistency until you have more information". It's an application of Ockham's razor - no, I haven't misspelt it - to fiction, so to say.)

 

Let's also not forget that these monsters are not players, so levels may apply differently to them. Just as in an MMORPG, I am told, a character may find creatures above their current level, but still use their intelligence and strategy to defeat them. Bear in mind that I did not say Sun-il would be unable to defeat the Black Summoner. I am just saying that knowing his level would help him. Considerably. It's basic Sunzi's Art of the war stuff, know yourself and know your enemy. A level 28 can defeat a level 46 by using the correct strategy, but I highly doubt the correct strategy is a head-on fight. And knowing how powerful your opponent is would certainly help Sun-il decide how to approach the problem.

 

But no, this series would make little sense if Jee-han's ability were not accurate. It's the only advantage he has. And we know he discovered Sun-il's identity as "Chunbumoon's heir" accurately, so we know that so far the readings have been correct. He also knew the Black Summoner's and Soul Blaze Fist girl's titles - and therefore their basic skills - before they had used their powers. For now, and until the author says otherwise, we cannot assume anything other than that the readings are correct.

 

Also consider this: Sun-il may know what he can and cannot do, but how do we compare apples and oranges? How would Sun-il know whether he can win against the Soul Fist Girl in a head-on fight? How do we compare burning and breaking?

 

So, this is another dimension to Jee-han's skill: it's an absolute universal metric of power. It doesn't matter if you are a summoner, a fire user or a qi reader, Jee-han can tell how much your aggregate power amounts to and thus on whom he should bet in a given fight. It's like knowing the average cruise speed of all race horses before a tournament: chances are that you will win a huge amount of money (by betting conservatively, of course). Which horse race addict wouldn't kill for that ability?

 

That said, I stand by what I said: Jee-han's basic power is an amazing advantage, provided that he uses it to acquire new skills and coordinate them with his knowledge of his enemy's abilities to defeat them or make an escape to safety. It's something no one else so far seems to have.

Edited by kendama, 28 October 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[JackApostrophe]

In an RPG a monster's level isn't necessarily equivalent to a PC's level.

 

We simply don't know enough of the rules yet to say anything for certain.

[kendama]

Another advantageous aspect of his power (although it doesn't count as a separate skill, so I won't update the list on the thread I opened).

 

Jee-han can immediately detect the characteristics of the Illusion Barrier he has entered (and we also got confirmation that they all appear as "instant dungeons" in his screens). He couldn't until he learned to make or break them, so it is associated with this fact.

 

He can even tell what skills are needed (in this case, wind, cloud and rain power) to cope with their environment. It won't help him now that he is weak, but in the future…

 

Nice chapter. I think the next thing he will try will be to break out of the instant dungeon, only to realise he cannot do it while he is level 1.

 

I like the fact he uses his brain to cope with each situation. But his decisions in this chapter are ambivalent. Sun-il has told him to decide: to level up OR to lead a normal life. But Jee-han wants both: not to involve himself with the "abyss" and to level up to be more successful in normal life. As this kind of plot goes, this is impossible, and Jee-han is going to learn it the hard way.

 

Now, I wonder how this confrontation with the Phantom Cloud girl is going to play out. The most believable outcome is for him to be badly beaten until the girl realises he is not an impostor. But there is also the possibility that, once the Gamer's Mind skill activates, he will think of a way to hold his ground using his simple skills. Maybe a Mana Bolt chosen in the right moment can do the trick. I'm not betting on that, though.

[moyra]

This is getting interesting, maybe after he takes some damage we will see just how much like a game character his body has become. Will he still be able to move and fight even when he only has a few hit points left? Forget the sword he is going to need to beable to quick equip shield and armor the way he keeps running into high level oponets (kinda like Erza Scarlet).

Spoiler

 

[user139530g]

Chapter 9

I like how intense this guy turned out to be: http://vatoto.com/read/_/203979/the-gamer_v1_ch9_by_bap-scans/15

 

http://vatoto.com/read/_/203979/the-gamer_v1_ch9_by_bap-scans/4

 

"Even if I don't involve myself with the abyss, I can be successful in the real world if I level up."

 

That line seems to contradict the explanation of the "Interference Law" here:

 

http://vatoto.com/read/_/202774/the-gamer_v1_ch8_by_bap-scans/10

http://vatoto.com/read/_/202774/the-gamer_v1_ch8_by_bap-scans/11

 

Of course we don't know enough to say for sure about anything just 9 chapters in. But look at that last stat, Luck. I guess that 9 or 10 would be the luck stat of a normal person (would the other power users have higher luck, or luck that goes up?). If he keeps on raising it, he'll be interfering with the real world subtly, maybe blatantly. But a high luck would also mean less misfortune from Gaia or whatever. So little things like that might make Jee-han the most OP character in the manhwa, considering other characters probably can't gain much more luck, where Jee-han could put in 15 or eventually dozens of points into it... Either way, I was surprised that he didn't recognize this danger. Maybe he forgot about it.

Edited by user139530g, 02 November 2013 - 11:01 PM.

[JackApostrophe]

Chapter 9

I like how intense this guy turned out to be: http://vatoto.com/read/_/203979/the-gamer_v1_ch9_by_bap-scans/15

 

http://vatoto.com/read/_/203979/the-gamer_v1_ch9_by_bap-scans/4

 

"Even if I don't involve myself with the abyss, I can be successful in the real world if I level up."

 

That line seems to contradict the explanation of the "Interference Law" here:

 

http://vatoto.com/read/_/202774/the-gamer_v1_ch8_by_bap-scans/10

http://vatoto.com/read/_/202774/the-gamer_v1_ch8_by_bap-scans/11

 

Of course we don't know enough to say for sure about anything just 9 chapters in. But look at that last stat, Luck. I guess that 9 or 10 would be the luck stat of a normal person (would the other power users have higher luck, or luck that goes up?). If he keeps on raising it, he'll be interfering with the real world subtly, maybe blatantly. But a high luck would also mean less misfortune from Gaia or whatever. So little things like that might make Jee-han the most OP character in the manhwa. Either way, I was surprised that he didn't recognize this danger. Maybe he forgot about it.

 

Sun-Il said that someone who used magic to make their product popular got away with it, so it's still possible to use special abilities to succeed in the real world. The key is apparently whether something is believable or not.

 

Jee-Han said earlier that he intends to raise his Intelligence so that he can do better at school and get a better job, which is perfectly plausible. Ordinary people are capable of raising their own levels through effort, even though they aren't game characters like Jee-Han. An ordinary person could probably raise their Intelligence stat by studying a lot, but Jee-Han is unique in that he can control how he increases his abilities instead of needing to train in a specific way.

[kendama]

"Even if I don't involve myself with the abyss, I can be successful in the real world if I level up."

 

That line seems to contradict the explanation of the "Interference Law"

 

I believe he is thinking of being like the person who bewitched seaweed rolls to sell like crazy. He wants to level up just to the point where he reaps some benefits without putting himself in danger.

 

But, as I said above, in his case this will be difficult. He seems to level up quite easily even when he is not thinking of it.

 

I believe up to maybe level 20 would be what one could call normal. Like that teacher who is level 15. So if Jee-han stays in that range, he will be just an extraordinary human being. At level seven he is already more powerful than most of his classmates (which doesn't mean he would beat them in a fight). I also believe that just applying oneself to daily chores will get you to level up at a very slow pace: in a lifetime, one wouldn't go past level 20 or so, and as one gets old, maybe the level goes down unless one has an ability.

[JackApostrophe]

I believe he is thinking of being like the person who bewitched seaweed rolls to sell like crazy. He wants to level up just to the point where he reaps some benefits without putting himself in danger.

 

But, as I said above, in his case this will be difficult. He seems to level up quite easily even when he is not thinking of it.

 

I believe up to maybe level 20 would be what one could call normal. Like that teacher who is level 15. So if Jee-han stays in that range, he will be just an extraordinary human being. At level seven he is already more powerful than most of his classmates (which doesn't mean he would beat them in a fight). I also believe that just applying oneself to daily chores will get you to level up at a very slow pace: in a lifetime, one wouldn't go past level 20 or so, and as one gets old, maybe the level goes down unless one has an ability.

 

Part of the problem for us is that there are a number of different rule systems operating here. There are the rules for ordinary humans, the rules for ability users and the rules for Jee-Han. They're all different. An ordinary human presumably can't gain superhuman strength no matter how many times they go to the gym, but an ability user can tap into special forms of energy like magic or ki, and learn to use that to get stronger... but Jee-Han could theoretically level up by killing monsters with spells all day and then dump all his stat points into strength. All the rules are different and we don't know enough about them.

[kendama]

Part of the problem for us is that there are a number of different rule systems operating here. There are the rules for ordinary humans, the rules for ability users and the rules for Jee-Han. They're all different. An ordinary human presumably can't gain superhuman strength no matter how many times they go to the gym, but an ability user can tap into special forms of energy like magic or ki, and learn to use that to get stronger... but Jee-Han could theoretically level up by killing monsters with spells all day and then dump all his stat points into strength. All the rules are different and we don't know enough about them.

Agreed, but at least we know that there is a level cap on normal humans. So probably having superhuman strength already means you are above level 20 or so.

 

Also, one thing not many people are talking about (I only noticed it today): there are two counting systems for chapters. There are the weekly release chapters, of which there are nine. And there are the author-labelled chapters, which correspond to the way he wants us to divide the plot. Of these there have been two:

 

- Chapter 01: "The quest above my head"

- Chapter 03: "I levelled up" (starting today)

 

The first one-million dollar question is: where is chapter 02? Maybe this story is going to have an atypical narrative structure going back and forth in time. Chapter 02 might deal with things happening to other people in the period depicted so far. Or maybe I missed it (I looked the chapters again scrolling down quickly and saw nothing; also I think author chapters begin with those weird citations and so far there have been only two). It was not a typo because I checked the raws.

 

However, the title of chapter 03 is interesting. He has already levelled up three times since the story started, so why name a chapter that way? I think we can safely guess that something more momentous is going to happen to Jee-han in the next few weeks.

Edited by kendama, 03 November 2013 - 12:00 AM.

[Purple Library Guy]

Maybe the dojo will train him.

 

As to leveling up helping him in normal life . . . that seems to be a given.  Actually, not so much leveling up as grinding, but the point is he's already gained a couple of abilities just from studying and doing his homework.  He can push intelligence and real-world skills, likely much faster than a normal person ("You have gained an ability:  Accounting!  It is boring.  Current skill level is 1").

[JackApostrophe]

Maybe the dojo will train him.

 

As to leveling up helping him in normal life . . . that seems to be a given.  Actually, not so much leveling up as grinding, but the point is he's already gained a couple of abilities just from studying and doing his homework.  He can push intelligence and real-world skills, likely much faster than a normal person ("You have gained an ability:  Accounting!  It is boring.  Current skill level is 1").

 

Jee-Han also has much greater control over how he develops. All he really has to do is go out and kill monsters and then funnel the experience into useful abilities.

 

I imagine Observe could easily be turned into an ability that's useful outside of combat.

[kendama]

One thing I have noticed… Gaia is not completely random at distributing power.

 

It seems to run in families. Once a person receives power, it seems their descendants will have a high chance of inheriting it. Like the Chubumoon, which seems to be a family affair.

 

This only makes it more likely that Jee-han's mother is hiding something. It is unlikely that our protagonist is the first ability user in the family. Whether his mother knows her son has received power is another story.

[Purple Library Guy]

If you want to go a melee route, then DEX and CON are absolute musts as well. DEX because STR is useless if you can't hit and CON because you'll be taking a lot of damage no matter how high your DEX is if you're a close combat fighter.

 

That said, I'd also try to develop some sort of ranged ability that uses all that STR and DEX, since you can't realy close the distance with flying enemies.

The "STR is useless if you can't hit" is true, but he doesn't completely rely on DEX for that.  He's got a weapon skill.  Still, I do think DEX is important.

Frankly, he gets enough stat points that with fairly fast level progression like he's been having, he can become a monster in lots of stats pretty soon.

Well, I am not saying that Jee-han can beat anyone at his level. His skills are very weak and trivial right now. And of course, his "Power Strike" and the accidentally acquired "Energy Bolt" are probably just fancy names for fairly typical supernatural abilities in this kind of series. (If you think about it, the most he can do against an enemy right now is to bludgeon them with an aluminium bat and hope it works.)

Do not underestimate the ability to bludgeon people with an aluminium bat.  There is a saying, "No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style".  This is if anything more true for a crushed skull.  One of my toughest tabletop fantasy RPG characters is mainly good at hitting people very hard with a stick (or her fists).  Her group has heavy martial artists, a subtle assassin, a vicious desert warrior, hard-bitten soldiers, and she's just a really strong, tough peasant with a quarterstaff.  But when the going gets mean, they look to her for the serious clock-cleaning.