412 replies to this topic

[Mizura]

Eh? Why is it so strange for purebloods to be the majority? I'm actually surprised there were so many human-Sura relationships in the first place. D:

But you know, although humans are the weakest race, I do have to wonder if they really are the most miserable race. After all, even though they're weak, they may also be the only race that can lead a relatively peaceful existence, and they can live out their emotions fully. Look at the Suras. They either expect to live forever (the really strong ones), or probably got used to not being too attached (according to the blog, Sagara had many children, but not many survived. So, it somehow isn't too strange that she isn't too attached to those who still live. But is that really a positive experience?). On the other hand, Gandharva who lived so long without experiencing loss was absolutely crushed by the near simultaneous loss of his wife, daughter and best friends. In many ways, he's even weaker than the humans who are more "used" to death.

Look at the humans. They've all suffered a lot. Many haven't recovered completely. But they were able to move on with their lives, without being afraid to form new bonds. They have a future to look forward to that doesn't involve fearing to spend the rest of eternity alone (Agni noted how bitter it was to live that long without finding a person you wish to be with, and Gandharva has just about lost his mind already at the prospect of living without his daughter). Humans can look forward to the future, or entrust the future to their children. But in the case of Suras, parents will often have to outlive their children. For humans, it is every parent's worst fear to have their children die before they do, but the Suras need to get used to it.

As for your questions about Quarters, well... it's probably just the proportion of Sura blood involved. In Halfs, Sura blood is 50% or more. They inherit attributes from their parents. They use transcendental skills instead of magic that calls on Gods. By contrast, the quarters attributes are determined from their birth year, etc. Basically, that 50% mark is significant.

Edited by Mizura, 18 April 2012 - 03:25 AM.

[Macha]

Eh? Why is it so strange for purebloods to be the majority? I'm actually surprised there were so many human-Sura relationships in the first place. D:

Good point... I thought specifically that, with so many relationships, the amount of pureblood humans would have been reduced significantly by the existence of the direct descendants of a human-Sura union and their offspring (after all, we still see many Halfs and Quarters in the human realm), so I guessed it was pretty common, at least for the inferior Suras, to mix their blood with the humans.

I wonder, but are the Nastika the only Suras that don't age? Or is it that the Rakshasa and their descendants simply die because of the fights between clans and by the hands of the Gods?

[Mizura]

The Raksasha don't seem to age either. We're not sure about the Upani and Maras though. But yeah, the Rakshasa and below tend to die off in large numbers because of the frequent fights. For example, the blog said near the beginning of the Universe, the Nastika apparently had a lot of Rakshasa to increase their forces, but not many of them survive because of the relentless assaults from the Gods.

Huh, I wonder if we'll one day see a reason why the Gods hate the Suras, beyond "we can't use insight on the Nastikas" and such.

Edit: Ah, I just realized that there's something else I really like about Kubera: the lack of "scaling." In most Shounen action series, the protagonist would start weak and then face progressively stronger opponents. Said opponents will have some tragic flashback conveniently placed right before they die. The problem with scaling is that it often feels really artificial.

In Kubera, the strongest (?) opponents are shown more or less from the start, with clear motivations and backgrounds. Leez still has a lot of growing to do, and will likely face weaker opponents first, but we have a consistent sense of scale already. How to explain this... thanks to this lack of scaling, it doesn't feel like the plot will revolve around making stronger and stronger opponents. Instead it will focus on the actual -story-: backgrounds, character development and such. Do you see what I mean?

Shounen manga:
- Antagonist shows up.
- Protagonist powers up.
- Bigger antagonist shows up.
- Bigger power up.
- etc. Eventually it seems the plot is written in a way just so fights get bigger each time.

Kubera:
- Arc with some fighting.
- Arc with character development + background revelations.
- Arc with some fighting.
- Arc with character development + background revelations.
- etc.

Edit 2: Kubera has over 1000 follows on Batoto, whoo!
And India just test-launched a Missile called the Agni V!

Edited by Mizura, 19 April 2012 - 09:01 AM.

[Macha]

The Raksasha don't seem to age either. We're not sure about the Upani and Maras though. But yeah, the Rakshasa and below tend to die off in large numbers because of the frequent fights. For example, the blog said near the beginning of the Universe, the Nastika apparently had a lot of Rakshasa to increase their forces, but not many of them survive because of the relentless assaults from the Gods.

This rather implies that Rakshasa are less powerful than the Gods O.o

Your reasoning about Kubera's structure is right! I didn't think about it, but it really felt different from the average shounen japanese manga, now I know exactly why.

[TaintedDream]

The Raksasha don't seem to age either. We're not sure about the Upani and Maras though. But yeah, the Rakshasa and below tend to die off in large numbers because of the frequent fights. For example, the blog said near the beginning of the Universe, the Nastika apparently had a lot of Rakshasa to increase their forces, but not many of them survive because of the relentless assaults from the Gods.

Huh, I wonder if we'll one day see a reason why the Gods hate the Suras, beyond "we can't use insight on the Nastikas" and such.

Edit: Ah, I just realized that there's something else I really like about Kubera: the lack of "scaling." In most Shounen action series, the protagonist would start weak and then face progressively stronger opponents. Said opponents will have some tragic flashback conveniently placed right before they die. The problem with scaling is that it often feels really artificial.

In Kubera, the strongest (?) opponents are shown more or less from the start, with clear motivations and backgrounds. Leez still has a lot of growing to do, and will likely face weaker opponents first, but we have a consistent sense of scale already. How to explain this... thanks to this lack of scaling, it doesn't feel like the plot will revolve around making stronger and stronger opponents. Instead it will focus on the actual -story-: backgrounds, character development and such. Do you see what I mean?

Shounen manga:
- Antagonist shows up.
- Protagonist powers up.
- Bigger antagonist shows up.
- Bigger power up.
- etc. Eventually it seems the plot is written in a way just so fights get bigger each time.

Kubera:
- Arc with some fighting.
- Arc with character development + background revelations.
- Arc with some fighting.
- Arc with character development + background revelations.
- etc.

Edit 2: Kubera has over 1000 follows on Batoto, whoo!
And India just test-launched a Missile called the Agni V!

And this is why Korean Webomics are becoming so very popular lol, the typical Japanese shounen manga is good for fights, especially the anime versions of those manga, but the storylines tend to be very lacking past the first plot arc.

[noctemleya]

And this is why Korean Webomics are becoming so very popular lol, the typical Japanese shounen manga is good for fights, especially the anime versions of those manga, but the storylines tend to be very lacking past the first plot arc.

Agreed. Since manga is so popular a lot of "mainstream" publishers don't care much about their manga's plot or story: as long as they publish it, it's going to sell by inertia. The author just has to keep drawing.
With webcomics is a bit different. I don't exactly understand 100% how naver works, but from what i understand if authors really want to make it big they have to earn success the hard way. Probably that's the main reason why they put a lot of effort in their stories.
Also, they don't get pushed around by publishers to write "things that will sell", they do it mostly for their own satisfaction (at least at first). Freedom to write whatever you want is such a precious thing for creativity.

[Macha]

Agreed. Since manga is so popular a lot of "mainstream" publishers don't care much about their manga's plot or story: as long as they publish it, it's going to sell by inertia. The author just has to keep drawing.
With webcomics is a bit different. I don't exactly understand 100% how naver works, but from what i understand if authors really want to make it big they have to earn success the hard way. Probably that's the main reason why they put a lot of effort in their stories.
Also, they don't get pushed around by publishers to write "things that will sell", they do it mostly for their own satisfaction (at least at first). Freedom to write whatever you want is such a precious thing for creativity.

Don't forget that originally Kubera was meant to be a novel, and Currygom decided to draw it instead (and I'm grateful for it, she has a good drawing style).

[Mizura]

This rather implies that Rakshasa are less powerful than the Gods O.o

Yeah, Maruna didn't seem eager to confront Agni, and yet Maruna seems to be among the stronger Rakshasa. At the very least, I think all Rakshasa are probably weaker than the major 5-zen Gods. We know for sure that Rakshasa are weaker than Nastika (Sagara said that in the human world, since Nastika can no longer take human form, Rakshasa can now be potentially stronger than Nastika, implying that normally, they're weaker). It's fair though, because Rakshasa can be replaced.

I think in general, Nastika are stronger than the Gods, and the strongest Gods are likely stronger than Rakshasa. However, strong Rakshasa may be stronger than the weaker Gods (after all, we've only seen 5-Zen Gods until now). And numbers probably do matter to a point.

Oh ugh, I used to be a big fan of Naruto, but what in the world has it become? Right now it's describing Kabuto's flashback, and it's so awfully timed. Yet when people complain about it, I see people retorting "stfu you character-development hating folks!" Well at least Kubera doesn't develop a character's background only when he's just about to die. >: \ Gandharva and Maruna's backgrounds are both being developed progressively for example, and thanks to that both characters are really popular.

Noblesse is actually an example of webtoon that's gone the way of Japanese Shounen manga. It used to be so funny and entertaining, but what have the recent arcs become? ;_; Well, at least it seems to be developing some central plotline now. But Noblesse is the reason why I don't mind Currygom taking a break at all. If that's the price for bringing us a proper story, so be it, take your time, please! And who knows? Maybe we'll get some badass art pieces when she comes back. *__*

Spoiler

Kalibloom looks so absolutely Badass, I can't Wait to see more of it! BD

[TaintedDream]

Yeah, Maruna didn't seem eager to confront Agni, and yet Maruna seems to be among the stronger Rakshasa. At the very least, I think all Rakshasa are probably weaker than the major 5-zen Gods. We know for sure that Rakshasa are weaker than Nastika (Sagara said that in the human world, since Nastika can no longer take human form, Rakshasa can now be potentially stronger than Nastika, implying that normally, they're weaker). It's fair though, because Rakshasa can be replaced.

I think in general, Nastika are stronger than the Gods, and the strongest Gods are likely stronger than Rakshasa. However, strong Rakshasa may be stronger than the weaker Gods (after all, we've only seen 5-Zen Gods until now). And numbers probably do matter to a point.

Oh ugh, I used to be a big fan of Naruto, but what in the world has it become? Right now it's describing Kabuto's flashback, and it's so awfully timed. Yet when people complain about it, I see people retorting "stfu you character-development hating folks!" Well at least Kubera doesn't develop a character's background only when he's just about to die. >: \ Gandharva and Maruna's backgrounds are both being developed progressively for example, and thanks to that both characters are really popular.

Noblesse is actually an example of webtoon that's gone the way of Japanese Shounen manga. It used to be so funny and entertaining, but what have the recent arcs become? ;_; Well, at least it seems to be developing some central plotline now. But Noblesse is the reason why I don't mind Currygom taking a break at all. If that's the price for bringing us a proper story, so be it, take your time, please! And who knows? Maybe we'll get some badass art pieces when she comes back. *__*

Spoiler

Kalibloom looks so absolutely Badass, I can't Wait to see more of it! BD

Well, Noblesse hasn't completely fallen from grace just yet. I'm personally hoping for it to inch it's way back to a proper story

[Mizura]

Quite true, just because the last arc was horrible it doesn't mean it's hopeless Yet. This arc seems to be getting somewhere. Hopefully it's somewhere interesting.

I miss the kids though, I miss Shinwoo and Ik-Han. And Pedro. Badass math teacher. The story was more funny with them around. Though, for the girls, the author of Noblesse seems to be as good about writing girls as Kishimoto (the author of Naruto), which is to say... not very. But at the same time, I really don't want Shinwoo and Ik-Han to become modified humans. Phoee.

That's another thing that's nice about Kubera. You don't have this "male characters" vs "female characters" contrast. There are both male and female characters I like in this series. Currygom seems to be prettty fair with genders (especially if you compare to your average Shounen manga):
- Two of the Primeval Gods take male form, two take female form. Though, they can change their genders.
- Female-form Nastika are weaker than male-form Nastika, but I can accept that if I think of it in terms of "it's the price to pay for the ability to reproduce and increase the Suras' army force." Also, there have been several female Nastika Kings.
- There seems to be more male 5-Zen gods than female ones, but Varuna is the one who killed the most Suras.
- Among humans, is it just me or do most of the strong magicians seem to be women?

Edited by Mizura, 20 April 2012 - 02:25 AM.

[TaintedDream]

I miss the kids though, I miss Shinwoo and Ik-Han. And Pedro. Badass math teacher. The story was more funny with them around. Though, for the girls, the author of Noblesse seems to be as good about writing girls as Kishimoto (the author of Naruto), which is to say... not very. But at the same time, I really don't want Shinwoo and Ik-Han to become modified humans. Phoee.

- Among humans, is it just me or do most of the strong magicians seem to be women?

I half agree with you there, I kind of want them to stay human, but at the same time I'm worried it won't make much sense story-wise for them to stay that way (they'll be too weak, so they'll die at some point, or it'll just be an endless cycle of them finding out, and then having their memories erased again).

And it's not just you lol, besides Ran (who is completely useless with calculations, and therefore, kind of all magic that can't end the fight in one shot)

[Mizura]

Come to think of it, the fact that women are stronger magicians in this series is rather ironic, because magic in this series is based on maths.
I remember that even as I was growing up, I was told that girls weren't as good as maths as boys (though I pretty much dismissed that by the time I reached high school, since the two best students at maths in my class were girls - me being second. I was never jealous of #1 either, she was nice to everybody and we were good friends. She eventually went to MIT ).

In this series, the most badass amazing maths prodige is Asha herself. That's Really cool.

Spoiler

And in the next arc, that huge amount of fireballs that Jibril Ajes sent down... aw man, even if the staff amplified her powers, she must have calculated all that herself, that's so amazing, they're all like super-computers. *_*

Edited by Mizura, 20 April 2012 - 02:59 AM.

[pegaso]

actually i thought Nastika > Rakshasa = Gods depending on what stage the Rakshasa & what zen is the God. but then again, i'm not too sure what happened during N0 that allowed Gods to fight with the Advanced Sura evenly and some Gods like Varuna to kill so many Suras..

Spoiler

About Maruna and Agni, I'm just thinking the odds did not favour Maruna and Sagara... so it doesn't mean that Maruna is weaker than Agni.
and I'm also quite curious about the insight that Agni saw from Maruna

and i still like Noblesse serves as a good source of entertainment whenever i suffer from withdrawal symptoms of no new Tower of Gods or Kubera chapters.

and I must say that mizura's description of a typical shonen manga fits khr to the T. haven't read the latest few chapters but so far i haven't really seen a good team fight (it's very 1-1 pokemon style). and yeah, i hate how they almost got smashed by a strong rival and then have a new weapon/power up etc.

and yeah, the maths calculations part is = = when i saw the equations i was thinking, where the heck is my calculator?! i probably can't even punch in the equations as fast as they can come up with an ans haha... but i guess they are a world with no science, and probably little humanity subjects..

[Mizura]

That comparison of Gods and Rakshasa does make sense. Still, I think that a God for a given Zen level is probably stronger than a Rakshasa of a given stage of growth.

Spoiler

Although Maruna didn't reach 5th stage, I'm pretty sure he's much weaker than Agni. Agni could handle All of Sagara's army, including 3rd and 4th stage Rakshasa, even though he was only using a fraction of his powers to not use up Brilith's life. See those fire snake thingies he made? The technique is called 9 Snakes of Hell. He only summoned 2 to avoid straining Brilith, but he can summon more. There's something weird about that part though, 9 Snakes of Hell is apparently supposed to be Vasuki's original technique, so it's surprising that Agni was able to use it (maybe he copied it?).

Also, yes Maruna and Sagara Were running for their lives there, that's why Gandharva had to intervene to give them the time to run away. Also, even though Maruna is weaker than Agni, I suspect Maruna may already be as strong as an average 5th stage Rakshasa: he was stronger than Kasak (Kasaaaaaak!), who's apparently as strong as a 5th stage Rakshasa, at least that's what I think it says.

Ah by the way, the insight Agni saw was that they were all looking for the Power of the Name. So he asked Gandharva why they were looking for it. Gandharva didn't reply though, and just pleaded with him to not go against "him" (at which point Agni felt God Kubera's presence, but God Kubera told him not to look for him).

KHR? Ugh, I don't even Read that one. Among current major-ish Shounen, the only one I'm really interested in right now is Toriko. That one is Hilarious, and has really entertaining challenges that go beyond fighting (the current arc for example is awesome. Hahah, So hard to get something to eat. x'D )

I think they do have science and humanities. Chapter 56:
- College of Natural Sciences
- College of Humanities
- College of Management (lol, they have an MBA course? xD)
- College of Martial Arts
- College of Arts

Edited by Mizura, 20 April 2012 - 03:58 AM.

[TaintedDream]

Ah yes, KHR. Another one that was good for the first few arcs.....then the various companies / shareholders / editors forced the authors to keep going on when the storyline was meant to die off, resulting in a dead manga plot-wise with semi-living fight scenes

[Mizura]

Semi-living? Like with zombies? It fits. "Braaaaains! My brraaaaiinnnsss!!! Wtf are you doing to my brraaaaiinnnsss!!!!"

xD

[pegaso]

isn't that more like naruto with the impure world resurrection

and bakuman ended! :'D i quite liked the author and artist for bakuman and death note... somehow i felt that for death note, they might have wanted to end at the 1st arc when L died but was not able to... so bakuman was a show of their resentment. but anyway, i'm glad they didn't drag bakuman for longer than needed.

and i realise we are completely off topic

Edited by pegaso, 20 April 2012 - 05:40 AM.

[Mizura]

Ouch. It sure is. D:
Uh, I wish Bakuman had one more chapter to show the other guys though. An epilogue. Oh well.

Edit: And yes, we sure are off-topic! D:

Back on topic though, we were mentioning whether the humans in the Kubera world are good at science or not? I suspect that they are, or at least they're better at it than we may think.

As we know, magic is based on calculations. Some of the knowledge required is quite precise. For example, Asha could calculate the trajectory of particles from a boulder being blown up. This would imply not only trajectory calculations though, but knowledge of material as well. So, I suspect that in order to cast magic effectively, the people in the Kubera world must have a rather good understanding of Physics as well.

The difference between their world and ours though basically comes down to application. We don't have magic, so we have to build stuff to make use of that knowledge instead. But in the Kubera world, magic simply works better. You can blow things up quite easily, you can strenghten yourself, you can fly, you can teleport. So, why the hell would you bother building say... a crane? Of course, that means their Engineering skills are nowhere near 20th or 21st century level, but that doesn't mean their knowledge of science is bad (though okay, they probably don't do particle physics either). See?

Edited by Mizura, 20 April 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[battradio]

We don't seam to know much about where Leez parrents came from , but my best quess is not from Willarv , that being said no two planets are going to be the same size .In the NC a lot of planets where dystroyed so some of them would have been a lot larger or denser than Willarv and most likely Leez parents came from one of those large worlds .That may be one of the reasons her mother was stonger than most halfs and her father a champion .Sort of like superman of the 1930's and 40's , he came from Kyrpton ( a large planet ) and was stronger , could run faster and jump higher ,. If your going to steal a plot line why not take the best .

I need some info for the wiki , its in the spoiler tab , the info on Leez parents if someone has it or the other two questions
http://kubera.wikia.com/wiki/Kubera_Wiki

Spoiler

Can someone tel me what Kubera the gods gigantic force is , and where the areoplateau is .

Edited by battradio, 20 April 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[Mizura]

Not much info on either I'm afraid. Only information I've managed to descipher are:

Anna Haias
Human (Pureblood), 39 years-old
Triple Kubera
171cm, 63kg (56kg 20 years ago), 80D (75E 20 years ago)

Beauty with green eyes and very long dark green hair (though she puts her hair up). Dark skin.
She raised Leez alone without a husband, and also took care of the orphans Haas and Kaz Lehn.

Rao Leez
Kubera Leez's father
He and Anna Haias are not officially married. Very few people except the village people and a few other people know that he has a daughter. He is the leading figure in the world of fighters. (In the story, we know that he is the one who gave Leez the name Kubera).

I don't think we have any idea where Aeroplateau is, the blog only describes Atera, Mistyshore and Rindhallow. It must be somewhere on the same side as Kalibloom though, since people go through the channel to reach it too. Isn't Gigantic Strength just body strengthening?

Edited by Mizura, 20 April 2012 - 10:07 AM.