418 replies to this topic

[Solipsist]

@Light

Spoiler

Saber being the best Servant is precisely because of the Sheath / Sword combination. The Sheath regenerates energy infinitely, and the sword unleashes it in violent winds. She's overpowered to boot, and you pretty much see that in the end of the first route (She beat Ea, yo!)
Regarding the archer thing...No matter how many people go over this with me, it always sounds hopelessly naive and childish that, without exaggerating, an infinite-being came to a conclusion; yet when he saw how an 18 years-old brat act, his eternal anguish suddenly is being debunked! Come on! Archer should be all about taking out Shirou PRECISELY because Shirou is so hopelessly persistent, that's where archer is supposed to bring up his iconic statement : Drown in your ideals.
I've had enough bitching about UBW, I pretty much had enough by the time I ranted about it for an entire day to an acquaintance of mine whom actually liked it..Bleh. Happy thoughts, happy thoughts!

@Julio

 

you might hit a point of no-return

TOO LATE.
But that's not because I became aware of the faults in anime, it's because the mainstream anime has adopted the moe-culture as its bread and butter. Most of what we get these days are 'moe' orientated...If I'll meet someone in person who liked SAO or Sakurasou no Pet Kanojo, I think I might break a chair over their heads or at least castrate them so they won't be able to reproduce.

HOT DAMN, I'm in an asshole mood lately.

P.S: Tsukihime to me seems a tad....Moe, in a way. Hold on, hold on. Bear with me...As I said before, it's "badly written" in my eyes because the female-cast are very quick to fawn over the protagonist for no apparent reason, and one of them even contradicts completely her entire existence by paying any special attention to the protagonist.

Spoiler

Ciel.
Ciel is a

Spoiler

specialized assassin from the church, one whom holds a plethora of skills and abilities. She is very dedicated to her job and cause...Yet, she somehow very quickly fell in love with the protagonist for no apparently good reason. Because he helped her fix a fence? That's why he is so special? And even if for some reason he is, that's why she deviates so much from the church's regulations in order to insert Chiki into her life?  

Call it naive, call it whatever you want...It just seems like Nasu wanted to pander to the male audience's phallus way too much as a head start. I guess that's one form of a marketing strategy, but it reduces the entertainment value for adult readers.
...
I find it cute I call myself an adult when I go on a 100% cunty rant over materials nobody mentioned until I decided to piss myself off. <:
Well, I read Le Nausea, so I guess I'm entitled to be a douche.

Edited by Solipsist, 09 January 2014 - 08:13 PM.

[JulioRosario]

it's because the mainstream anime has adopted the moe-culture as its bread and butter. Most of what we get these days are 'moe' orientated...If I'll meet someone in person who liked SAO or Sakurasou no Pet Kanojo, I think I might break a chair over their heads or at least castrate them so they won't be able to reproduce.

 

I agree completely with this statement, but the point is... Japan responds strongly on the current demand, so if there are a lot of moe-themed things (I dare not call them Anime or VN or Manga), there is probably a high demand for it. So Tsukihime would probably have been a good choice for even this period (even though there are worse Moe-things floating around lately) XD

 

Spoiler

About Ciel... Ciel IS the moe part. It's the heroine who should attract all the otaku-audience that are not into little sister stuff. The other heroines are all a tad moe, like you said, but Ciel is the worst. I also felt she was way too eager to give our young Shiki a chance. But that happens a lot in other stories too.

Think of Umineko, if you haven't read it, here a brief synopsis:

 

Spoiler

A witch needs to kill people on an island and make them believe it was a witch who did it, so she can exist again, because she can only exist until some people believe she does. The protagonist denies her so she starts a game of wits with him, in order to convince him, witches exist.

 

Here the reason, if you don't mind the spoilers:

 

Spoiler

The whole game of wit is unecessary and it reads like two four-years-old arguing whose imaginary friend is cooler. She already has people believing in her! Can't she just kill Battler off? But she is fond of him, some could say... a bloodlusty witch, who wanted to kill every one off in the cruellest kind of way, just gets fond of the protagonist after exchanging only roughtly two sentences and starts to play... NO WAY! But else the story wouldn't even start, so we need to put up with the crap, if we want to enjoy a story, which is not all bad.

 

Guess the same works for Tsukihime, you want a Ciel-route, you need to put up with the romance non-sense. Else it wouldn'y even start. You don't want a Ciel-route, don't play it, and so avoid playing the other half of the game, but anyway, the plot-hole is there! Frankly I enjoy the non-sense humor in Type Moon, and remenber that people die if you kill them! XD

 

And with this I'm done, else we'll have two people in an asshole mood

 

Still waiting for Fate/hollow ataraxia and Mahotsukai no Yoru to be translated, anyone heard something?

[Solipsist]

Every country responds to demand...That's how the market flows (Look at western games, the Hollywood industry turns games into movies. Look at "games" like Remember Me)...It's just a tad annoying that faux affection is considered the primary source of entertainment. In Visual Novels it is even easier to fall into this pit. It's all essentially porn, but they're stroking something else instead of your dick.
I remember reading G-senjou no Maou and thinking to myself that it is a tad childish on the constant pandering, but it managed to balance itself out somewhat.

Spoiler

Even though the "real" ending is so horribly forcefully emotionally-manipulative to try to make you cry it actually made me pissed off.

Regarding Ataraxia, I heard that it doesn't live up to the level of FSN; that it descended down from glory. So I guess it is already good that from point get-go I'm willing to enjoy it while expecting nothing.
And never heard of Mahotsukai...I myself am waiting for Amagami to be fully translated, but I think the team is dead or something. ._. The game's gameplay seemed rather...Interactive, so I was willing to give the thing a shot, but it's probably going to be done in 2016...Heh, that dream was shot down easily.

[JulioRosario]

 

Regarding Ataraxia, I heard that it doesn't live up to the level of FSN; that it descended down from glory. So I guess it is already good that from point get-go I'm willing to enjoy it while expecting nothing.
And never heard of Mahotsukai...I myself am waiting for Amagami to be fully translated, but I think the team is dead or something. ._. The game's gameplay seemed rather...Interactive, so I was willing to give the thing a shot, but it's probably going to be done in 2016...Heh, that dream was shot down easily.

 

 

 

I'm waiting for Ataraxia just for the stupid parts and those lovely akward Rider moments XD

Mahoutsukai, or however that is written, is the last of Type Moons VN pubblished in Japan, it is the first to be totally h-scene free. So I was curious how that turned out. I was also hoping Amagami came out earlier, found the MC to be interesting due to his non-conventional (yeah, lets call them that) ideas. I watched the anime and although I know it won't live up to the VN I found it rather interesting, so when the VN comes out translated, I'll give it a shot. By the way on fuwanovel they say it's at 21% translation, but I don't know if there has recently been an increase in percentage.

 

Edit: somehow something messed up the quote...

Edited by JulioRosario, 10 January 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Solipsist]

I just checked Mahou' and apparently it's..Extremely short for TypeMoon. About 20 hours...And the best thing to come out of all of this?
It costs 110$.
...
These guys are fucking insane. FSN ranges from 30$~50$ and it's over 100 hours long...I wonder how much it actually costs in japan. There's no way a visual novel is more expensive to make than your modern AAA game, but then again; the market of VNs is probably weak enough to bolster the merits for such inflation...But even that doesn't sound right, as I am sure (generally speaking) in Asia the visual-novel market is by far more robust and lively. Speculations, speculations.

..Hmpth. At times like these, I entertain myself with the ambivalence we face when it comes to the dichotomy of abundance of chance we get within this global economy, that one's location becomes less and less a demerit to hold a certain occupation due to the state of the local market;
Yet, local markets are still a deterministic cause to withhold from individuals to benefit fully from an occupation, seeing as culture and language has so much of a binding power to the strength of the market itself.
I remember seeing a ... Mexican anime artist on deviantart, and I thought to myself how odd that must be. What does Mexico has to do with anime?
The fact the genre is culturally-attached to Asia is probably something that will just disappear in a few years, if it's not happening already now; but its relevancy sure as hell won't ever be in anywhere in the world like it is in Japan
(and that is said without doing any research what so ever).

[HXIII]

Has anyone here ever heard of Baldr Force EXE series?

[JulioRosario]

I just checked Mahou' and apparently it's..Extremely short for TypeMoon. About 20 hours...And the best thing to come out of all of this?
It costs 110$.
...
These guys are fucking insane.

..Hmpth. At times like these, I entertain myself with the ambivalence we face when it comes to the dichotomy of abundance of chance we get within this global economy, that one's location becomes less and less a demerit to hold a certain occupation due to the state of the local market;
Yet, local markets are still a deterministic cause to withhold from individuals to benefit fully from an occupation, seeing as culture and language has so much of a binding power to the strength of the market itself.
I remember seeing a ... Mexican anime artist on deviantart, and I thought to myself how odd that must be. What does Mexico has to do with anime?
The fact the genre is culturally-attached to Asia is probably something that will just disappear in a few years, if it's not happening already now; but its relevancy sure as hell won't ever be in anywhere in the world like it is in Japan
(and that is said without doing any research what so ever).

 

Supply and demand, I'm afraid... if there are just 5 people out there ready to spend 100$ on that VN, it's still better than having 10 buying it for 30$. In just a few words, we doom ourselves by buying overpriced products, or by having other people do it. That's why I only buy something I find has the right price(7€ for Blade of the Immortal, ok, I'll take it. 7€ for the reprinted naruto comic, I'll leave it) . If it doesn't have the right price, pity, I'll find myself something else.

 

As far as non-Japanese anime and whatsoever there is, I start seeing the whole thing as a whole, anime=cartoon, manga=comix. Do not kill me, please, I have my reasons. I find this makes sense since in Japan people apparently do not discriminate between thetwo categories as we do. I remember reading in Bakuman that they wanted to make the most famous manga. "what's the most famous manga?" "x-men I think" was the answer, so I deduct they don't see a difference, why should we then. Mexican anime artist, why not, does the style corrispond? Fine by me then. Point is, if you call it anime because it will sell more, then that's where the problem lies... Same thing, but called cartoon and people don't buy it, I see a huge problem there.

 

Anyway since we seem to be getting off-topic: I must admit I never bought a VN I played, not because I didn't want to, nor because I am convinced we should not give money to developers, but simply because I believe that if I am not able to buy that which I'm about to play or read or watch in my country, Italy that is, and there exists no official translation of it in any language I know, then that particular item is unavailable for me, unless I find it on the net, which is by definition free. Don't know if this makes sense, but I wanted to ask if there are many people buying VN or not? And in case yes, where do you get that stuff, directly from Japan?

[LightYami]

Has anyone here ever heard of Baldr Force EXE series?

 

Yeah, I have heard of it, but none of the games have been translated yet, right...? ^^

[Solipsist]

@Julio
Makes sense to me, I myself think I should at least pay something for these Visual Novels...But it seems like the developers and publishers do not want me to pay them anything. Very few of the VNs I read were actually up for purchase on the internet, and all of them were from the big companies -- Nitro+, Key, TypeMoon...A hard-worked on VN like G-Senjou No Maou doesn't bloody exist on the net, as far as I looked.
There's also the fear, in case a copy does exist for purchase; that the money will not directly go to the developers. I have no idea if this actually applies to VNs like it applies to AAA games, but it's still out there.

Regarding the art thing...For me it's like having a distant-relationship. Sure, you can skype each other and what not...But it's nothing palpable, it's an element outside of your local environment (market/culture); you have to detach yourself from where you are in order to connect to somewhere far away to see this person you're tied down to, as if the relationship makes any sense.
The moment your country, city, doesn't really support that market; your environment fails to accommodate your needs, so you go around the web for a false sense of support to attempt to establish a reason for your hobby / occupation to exist, somewhere far--far away from where you are.

You can argue against it, sure. I personally have a thing against such detachments when it comes to dealing with your environment -- if your city / country does not really support your bread and butter...Move away if it works out to somewhere which revolves more around it. Have an actual support-network instead of trying to create a virtual one, catch my drift?
But, that has little to do when you're just doing it for shit and giggles, like drawing comics. But, again; your potential to grow is still limited if you can't go to events like ComicCon to increase your fanbase. This is where art and market collides together and creates a difficult ordeal for peeps whom are dedicated to it. 

Just for the sake of trying to keep this on topic : I'm still reading Tsukihime, and I think I got 90% of the VN worked out but the fucking story doesn't go beyond what I already know goddamnit. It's like someone tells you that the answer is "2" but you just reply : "So, how do we get across this question?"

Spoiler

Yeah, when Shiki "kills" Arcueid in the VERY start for "no reason"? Why does he bring that up with her only after 3-2 days while constantly being with her? Isn't that like the first thing he should be asking her?
"Hey, why on earth would I try to murder the fuck out of you? Do you have any idea what would POSSESS me to do something so unnatural? Why didn't that Nrvsqr vampire guy with 666 familiars didn't kill me off the moment he saw me, near the mention at night?"
I mean, shit; I get it! You're the fucking Serpent or something, just move on already! 

[JulioRosario]

@Julio

Just for the sake of trying to keep this on topic : I'm still reading Tsukihime, and I think I got 90% of the VN worked out but the fucking story doesn't go beyond what I already know goddamnit. It's like someone tells you that the answer is "2" but you just reply : "So, how do we get across this question?"

Spoiler

Yeah, when Shiki "kills" Arcueid in the VERY start for "no reason"? Why does he bring that up with her only after 3-2 days while constantly being with her? Isn't that like the first thing he should be asking her?
"Hey, why on earth would I try to murder the fuck out of you? Do you have any idea what would POSSESS me to do something so unnatural? Why didn't that Nrvsqr vampire guy with 666 familiars didn't kill me off the moment he saw me, near the mention at night?"
I mean, shit; I get it! You're the fucking Serpent or something, just move on already! 

 

90% of the front route (Arcueid/Ciel) or of the whole game (other three routes included)?

I noticed something similar in other VNs, at some point some seroius s**t happens and you go all wow, what the hell?! Afterwards it should be explained, but it just never happens. I think this is mostly because the author wanted a drammatic scene built in, and he or she or they thought to explain it later on, then there was no actual need to, since the reader is focused on what is happening at that moment and going back would break the flow of the action, so they/he/she just drops it. On the other hand Japs villains do have a serious talk problem, they just can't shut up and do the smart thing: eliminate the MC while he still tries to figure out what is going on (Scar, guys, remember the Lion King? That was a villain!). Superiority complex leads to blabbering... yeah, that went well for Nrvsqr.

 

Regarding the other discussion: I simply wanted to say that if nobody took the effort to do an official translation and sale where I live, or in western countries anyway, then I don't feel obbligated to buy anything. Because I don't know where exactly my money goes, as you pointed out, and then because the fantranslaters, which I need to work on a translation, else I understand nothing, don't see a penny for their patch I am going to download and (ab)use and that is also pretty unfair.

[Solipsist]

It's pretty silly to say that you "abuse" the fantranslator's work by not paying for it, it's a voluntary work.
And I was thinking about this whole "pirating" thing of visual-novels....It's pretty much related to what YouTube is doing right now; using extremely harsh copyright-detection bots to flag people's videos, even if it's incredibly unjustified, just so the source-content won't be abused by anyone but the original owners.

What it fails to understand on most of these cases (like reviews and Let's Play videos) is that by exposing their games, commentating upon it and reviewing it; they get exposure, it's bloody free publicity!

Now try to combine that analogy with Visual-Novels.
You think anyone from the western world would just pay 50$~100$ for a visual novel if s/he NEVER saw one or how it works? Why would they?
It's like paying money for your first candy, while not knowing what the heck sugar is; by downloading and consuming the best Visual Novels, within time, you open yourself to the opportunity to actually spend money on it since begin to value the products more than you initially did. The same goes to AAA games, although what happened with me is that I just stopped playing them instead of paying for them or pirating them. 
These days AAA games are nothing but Micheal-Bay movies.

[JulioRosario]

@Solipsist:

I just don't want to get into trouble for downloading something that I can't buy where I live. As far as the publicity goes, I think this is the reason they didn't shut sites like batoto down (although some were closed a while ago), they meaning Japans pubblishers. I was just wondering, what if I'm one of the few who doesn't buy original VN, that could then turn into a problem. So I was doing what we Italians do best, watch our backs after the misfit, or how we use to say, guard our asses XD

[Phil777]

I see it that way. If the VN or eroge isn't available in English, and it's a fan translation, there's no harm done. =/ For exemple, Sengoku Rance is only sold in Japanese, yet some group made a full translation patch for it to english.

[Rol]

You can usually buy the game in Japanese and then apply the fan translation patch though.

Also, AAA titles aren't all "Michael Bay movies", it's like with everything, there are bad and good, you just have to know where to look.

[Solipsist]

Spoiler

Well, I finished the two routes of Alcuerid in Tsukihime, and... Fucked up shit, in the bad way.
The ending was your classic shounen ending, sadly. The gal is held captive within the princess role, requiring a heroic knight to rescue her...The True Ending is possibly the most realistic way for it to end, which is very analogous to the true ending of 'Fate' (first route) in FSN. However, in Fate I wept like a little baby while in Alcuerid's true-ending I was slightly held-back. I guess he eventually did it right?
The "good ending", however....They essentially get together, happy times are made. But for how long? She is essentially immortal with the (eventual) hunger for blood, and he is a mortal who is destined to perish by far sooner than she ever will, if she won't just kill him and suck his blood. In a way, that "silent" fact is by far more fucked up than the "sad" true ending.

Kinda reminds me the way Wanko tries to fuck with the readers by constantly reminding them that, no matter how happy everyone are; the "dogs" will fucking DIE while main cast is still alive.

If anything drives me nuts with Nasu's writing-style, is his constant paraphrasing. It drives me fucking insane...Every single time a character has a flashback, or reminiscences, they blabber the same crap monotonously ad nauseam:
"If only I knew that knowing is the ability to know of knowing knowness, by knowing we can know that while knowing we discover more knowing to know of happiness being happy of knowing happiness..."

Sometimes I'm surprised that TypeMoon is successful.... 
 

 

Also, AAA titles aren't all "Michael Bay movies", it's like with everything, there are bad and good, you just have to know where to look.

...Good luck with that, peep. I can't advocate for any recent AAA game from the top of my head.
I'm surprised that so little game-authors were able to figure out that Games are not written like Movies. That gameplay is more than just a way to withhold cutscenes / plot and narrative. I can fuck around with this topic forever, but this hardly has anything to do with visual-novels, which actually do use the little gameplay they have to express the story (unless it's something like an action-VN).

Edited by Solipsist, 13 January 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[JulioRosario]

@Solipsist: I deal with the paraphrasing and naivety of Type-Moon with a simple method, taking a whole years break, so that if I return to it later, I had enough time to digest all the faults of it. Same goes with a lot of Japanese media, taking a break saves you from completely giving up on them XD

[Phil777]

Mhm. Everything is good in moderation. ~.~

[gyokuran]

Ah FSN! i remember the days when I had fun finding the tiger stamp routes. 

[Solipsist]

I heard some people favor Tsukihime over Fate/stay night. Can someone explain this bizarre phenomenon to me?

P.S: I tried to throw money at the the guys whom made Monster Girl Quest, but it's like they don't want to be found. I just talked up there about consuming enough VNs to eventually want to pay for them, and these assholes keep it all to themselves.
It's like I'll make a product completely in Hebrew, and after seeing that particular series/product is spread like hotcakes, I'll still keep my website at the current locale without putting it up on paypal. Why would I do that? 
I don't get these people... ._.
You're trying to show some love, but they won't let you. This is some over-bearing, emotionally-inattentive father situation right here.

P.P.S: @gyokuran

I heard that you get a special ending if you collect all of the stamps, any luck?

Edited by Solipsist, 17 January 2014 - 08:06 AM.

[OMGWTFBBQPONIES]

I heard some people favor Tsukihime over Fate/stay night. Can someone explain this bizarre phenomenon to me?

Stuffs?

Quality aside, I agree with the point that Tsukihime feels more mature/darker than Fate.

Can't really offer a reliable opinion, because I've read Tsukihime ages ago and been keeping Fate on-hold for 3-4 years (stopped somewhere between the ending of UBW and beginning of HF), but I liked Tsukihime themes more (felt more original - and by that I mean some ideas I've encountered there first, not that they originated from the vn, because that I have no way of confirming). For a fantasy/RPG lover, Fate is nice, but doesn't offer as much novelty (and is more predictable too, I think).