10008 replies to this topic

[Furbuson]

Honestly, with Kaiser now essentially being revealed to essentially be Jyu Viole Grace ala boobs, the entire "This is an allegory for the Tower" gimmick starts wearing on me a bit thin.

At first it was smart, not terribly subtle but not terrible, but now I feel like somebody is hammering nails into my teeth while screaming in a melodic fashion that it's symbolic and it means stuff.

The only interesting question left (like mentioned before): Is this simply SIU trying to show something to the readers or is this analogy something that is actually used by someone in the story (like evan)

as a small scale test for Baam or something like that.

 

If Baam decides to tear down the entire station system he basically tells the Zahard empire to fuck off, making FUG his fanboys, getting closer to being Viole again.

In that case Evan will most likely try his best to seperate Yuri and Baam.

If Baam doesnt destroy the name hunt station then Evan might decide its ok for him and Yuri to support Baam.

I dont think this was a test to see Baam's strength, Hoaqin was a way better test for that than Kaiser.

I mean it always felt weird, "you just won a battle against semi white, but lets test your strength again anyway"

This whole quest to get a name is about something else.

Edited by Furbuson, 01 August 2016 - 09:58 PM.

[jordanm]

Give me a wrench  a closet a light bulb and a year  and well reenact the same conditions as the cave

 

after that you pick your female choice as to who Baam see first

lol ok, erm... Aka!

 

on a more serious note, probably hwa ryun. not that i'd think it would work or anything, but out of all the female characters in the series, she seems to be the most tolerable. 

[flowsthead]

Now kaiser... i hope she dies. there. i said it. it's been a while since we've had tragedy. Nothing so far in this webtoon has surpassed Nia's death in terms of getting a deep emotional reaction from the reader (imo). i did not give a micro-organism of a fuck about Roen and Daniel's subplot. it was the most dragged out, panel wasting plot ive ever read i think. countless panels wasted on "we need to bring roen back" "i want to save her" etc that lasted for how many chapters, 30? by the time we reached the conclusion of the subplot my interest was completely dry. 

 

I felt completely the opposite. Couldn't care less about Nia's death. Nia was a character we spent no time with and none of the other characters had any sort of history with. We didn't spend much time with Roen either, but the history of the characters came through. It wasn't so much Roen's death that mattered, as the way that death cause all of these repercussions. I thought it was much better done. It not only had plot significance, but character significance as well. Wangnan was sad about Nia that one time, and at this point no one mentions or remembers him. And especially after Season 1 with Ho when everyone but Baam could care less, it felt like SIU was sending the wrong message about Nia.

[gus]

lol ok, erm... Aka!

 

on a more serious note, probably hwa ryun. not that i'd think it would work or anything, but out of all the female characters in the series, she seems to be the most tolerable. 

 

a kuudere

 

i would go with Hwa Ryun but their haven't really been any interaction between them

 

Hwa Ryun is basically plot at the moment

 

I'm undecided

[flowsthead]

As far as the Tower allegory is concerned, I don't think it has to be that in depth. Most people's backstories in the Tower are pretty tragic. You can find comparisons with Beta, Horyang and Cassano, Anak, etc. Baam is never going to join FUG completely because of the way they treated him and the threats they made on his friends, and he will never be 100% against the 10 Families because of Koon and Androssi. The real question is does Baam become full Wingtree, or does he go off on his own ignoring everything. I don't think he particularly cares about the Name Hunt Station any more than he cares about anyone else's problems. His focus at the moment is 1) Himself 2) Rachel 3) His friends. Everything else can screw off until after the 43rd floor.

[Furbuson]

I felt completely the opposite. Couldn't care less about Nia's death. Nia was a character we spent no time with and none of the other characters had any sort of history with. We didn't spend much time with Roen either, but the history of the characters came through. It wasn't so much Roen's death that mattered, as the way that death cause all of these repercussions. I thought it was much better done. It not only had plot significance, but character significance as well. Wangnan was sad about Nia that one time, and at this point no one mentions or remembers him. And especially after Season 1 with Ho when everyone but Baam could care less, it felt like SIU was sending the wrong message about Nia.

I have to say that while Nia wasn't important ( was that really his name? sounds weird), the way SIU presented his death, the art, the screaming behind the door etc. was really well done.

I think it was one of the best kill scenes i have seen in webtoons/manga

 

 

As far as the Tower allegory is concerned, I don't think it has to be that in depth. Most people's backstories in the Tower are pretty tragic. You can find comparisons with Beta, Horyang and Cassano, Anak, etc. Baam is never going to join FUG completely because of the way they treated him and the threats they made on his friends, and he will never be 100% against the 10 Families because of Koon and Androssi. The real question is does Baam become full Wingtree, or does he go off on his own ignoring everything. I don't think he particularly cares about the Name Hunt Station any more than he cares about anyone else's problems. His focus at the moment is 1) Himself 2) Rachel 3) His friends. Everything else can screw off until after the 43rd floor.

 

 

There are a lot of things that fit togehter though.

1. The obvious analogy to Baam/Viole and the Tower+ruling class

2. Jinsung and Yuri are present (they each represent a guardian for Baam and the better part of their respective organisation)

3. the fact that Baam is using both identities (Viole and Baam)

4. The whole internal conflict and Baam trying to find out what he wants to do with his power

5. Evan and Yuri sent him on this mission for a reason and i dont think its just to measure his skills

 

It all feels like Baam has to make a choice, I think he will end up saying no to both organisations. 

At some point he will have to decide if he wants to challange the Zahard empire or leave it alone at least.

And once he learns the full truth of the name hunt station i doubt he will not care at all, he isnt that kind of guy.

Edited by Furbuson, 01 August 2016 - 10:42 PM.

[Thanos]

That is some good comparison and I too believe their situations are similar but playing a devil advocate here, she fell in love knowing she shouldn't whereas baam's relationship with Rachel was already established.

While it's true that Baam's relationship with Rachel has been established prior to the trap, that wasn't really the essence of the trap. For Kaiser the trap required her to fall for the boy ("she fell in love knowing she shouldn't"), while for Baam the trap required him to reveal himself as an Irregular ("he revealed his identity knowing he shouldn't").

...It's Kaiser's fault she fell for such a silly plot.

Also stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't mean the plot as a whole is silly.

Right, I put the words "silly plot" in connection to the Kaiser's trap in your mouth.

The points your brought up sound like an attempt to move the goal-post, but they mainly demonstrate that you make random and easily to challenge assumptions that would make Kaiser's falling for the trap more her fault. Both of them knew that they are going to face undesirable consequences if they do what they aren't supposed to do; and they both did and I elaborated on the rest already. The place of birth should be of no consequence unless you're suggesting that person from the Outer Word cannot imagine that revealing oneself as something that is feared and despised is going to have severe and undesirable consequences.

Finally, any two situations can be compared, the question is whether they are similar. And--despite your claims--the situations indeed appear to be quite similar on many levels. Not sure what about the comparison itself could be considered petty, but I imagine that the remark was required to make your comment appear more authoritative.

[flowsthead]

There are a lot of things that fit togehter though.

1. The obvious analogy to Baam/Viole and the Tower+ruling class

2. Jinsung and Yuri are present (they each represent a guardian for Baam and the better part of their respective organisation)

3. the fact that Baam is using both identities (Viole and Baam)

4. The whole internal conflict and Baam trying to find out what he wants to do with his power

5. Evan and Yuri sent him on this mission for a reason and i dont think its just to measure his skills

 

It all feels like Baam has to make a choice, I think he will end up saying no to both organisations. 

At some point he will have to decide if he wants to challange the Zahard empire or leave it alone at least.

And once he learns the full truth of the name hunt station i doubt he will not care at all, he isnt that kind of guy.

 

I should clarify. I wasn't specific enough in my words. Baam certainly empathizes with everyone, and I'm sure he'll feel terrible about the situation in the Name Hunt Station. But despite the comparisons, Baam is not the type of shonen hero that will drop everything to save every fly and flower in the world. He prioritizes heavily. Even after hearing everyone's sob stories on the 20th floor and why they need to pass, he was still willing to drop everyone. Now that might be as a form of protection for them from his situation, but I would still argue that he generally ignores other's problems if they don't touch on his friends. You have to keep in mind that whatever purity Baam has, it doesn't extend to killing. He tries to avoid it, but is perfectly willing to kill if that is his only option going forward. He may not be ruthless like Koon, but he does lean towards the pragmatic.

[Not Equal]

Kaiser x Baam... I can't believe it, my dreams are coming true...

 

Yeah... How about we wait until they say more than two sentences to each other before you start shipping lol

[salvatore]

Yeah... How about we wait until they say more than two sentences to each other before you start shipping lol

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tc7MH5ZXbg  

[25thIremi]

a kuudere

 

i would go with Hwa Ryun but their haven't really been any interaction between them

 

Hwa Ryun is basically plot at the moment

 

I'm undecided

Actually, the impression I get from Hwa Ryun is that she hasn't forgotten that Baam took her eye. I swear she tells him or someone else that she would love to return the favor one day or something very close to that.

[LaFa]

The exchange between blonde and horn is about getting the fame for defeating FUG's slayer candidate.

Blonde says it's a blessing for Androssi that Viole is participating since Androssi may be able to save her own life she uses him well.

Even the Zahard family won't discard a princess who has defeated a slayer candidate, even if she had lost her name.

But the blonde basically wants to become the princess who has slain a slayer candidate.

Upon hearing this, Androssi grinds her teeth.

Edited by LaFa, 02 August 2016 - 07:45 AM.

[salvatore]

The exchange between blonde and horn is about getting the fame for defeating FUG's slayer candidate.

Blonde says it's a blessing for Androssi that Viole is participating since Androssi may be able to save her own life she uses him well.

Even the Zahard family won't discard a princess who has defeated a slayer candidate, even if she had lost her name.

But the blonde basically wants to become the princess who has slain a slayer candidate.

Upon hearing this, Androssi grinds her teeth.

I hope she gets the chance to fight him, though i doubt she will. 

[Lester]

I hope she gets the chance to fight him, though i doubt she will. 

Which one getting a chance to fight him? I wouldn't mind Baam backhanding the arrogance out of either of them, to be honest. Alas, it seems as though this fight is designed to keep Androssi occupied while Baam does whatever he's going to do with Kaiser, and that will probably resolve the arc.

Edited by Lester, 02 August 2016 - 09:02 AM.

[salvatore]

Which one getting a chance to fight him? I wouldn't mind Baam backhanding the arrogance out of either of them, to be honest. Alas, it seems as though this fight is designed to keep Androssi occupied while Baam does whatever he's going to do with Kaiser, and that will probably resolve the arc.

 

I mean the Bia princess, because right now i am not feeling his fight with Kaiser after her backstory was revealed, because i want an enemy that Baam don't sympathize with, an enemy that just solely want to destroy Baam, not a one that's begging to be rescued.

 

And about Androssi, i don't why you still angry at her lol, she doesn't know how strong Baam is and never seen him battle, so it's understandable why she belittles him ( she's even worried about him when the Bia princess said she'll go after him) 

Edited by salvatore, 02 August 2016 - 09:25 AM.

[Lester]

I mean the Bia princess, because right now i am not feeling his fight with Kaiser after her backstory was revealed, because i want an enemy that Baam don't sympathize with, an enemy that just solely want to destroy Baam, not a one that's begging to be rescued.

 

And about Androssi, i don't why you still angry at her lol, she doesn't know how strong Baam is and never seen him battle, so it's understandable why she belittles him ( she's even worried about him when the Bia princess said she'll go after him) 

Then she needs to be educated. It's pretty much the height of stupid arrogance to think that she can easily dominate an Irregular who has been trained by FUG.

[Darklight]

Then she needs to be educated. It's pretty much the height of stupid arrogance to think that she can easily dominate an Irregular who has been trained by FUG.

By two of Fug's elite members no less. So yea Androssi is a fucking moron

Edited by Darklight, 02 August 2016 - 10:17 AM.

[Thanos]

Then she needs to be educated. It's pretty much the height of stupid arrogance to think that she can easily dominate an Irregular who has been trained by FUG.

By two of Fug's elite members no less. So yea Androssi is a fucking moron

Not that I think Androssi should think so little of Baam, she shouldn't and needs a wakeup call, but it's understandable that he's nowhere near her match from her perspective. He was basically harmless on 2F, and when she encountered him pre-Workshop Battle (i.e., after the FUG training) he was "struggling" against that relatively low-level mechanised guard that she dispatched in one hit. She has no way of knowing that he wasn't even trying at the time, or that his power sky-rocketed since then.

The problem is part her ego and part the fact that she never saw him in proper fight where he brings out his Shinsoo techniques--much less his serious techniques (e.g., Yu Han Sung's style, the FUG signature technique, etc.)--or the Thorn (not even the fake Thorn); she has only ever witnessed him using Fast Skip, martial arts, and evasion / movement techniques. So she cannot know that his power was probably her match already prior to the recent Revolution and soul-boost, and that she isn't--or at least shouldn't be (who knows what SIU decides)--his match anymore.

PS: Because she has no way of knowing that he was trained by elite members of FUG, the point is basically moot; we hadn't known for sure that he was taught be YHS until his recent fight with Hoaqin.

Edited by Thanos, 02 August 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[Lester]

PS: The fact that he was trained by elite members of FUG is basically moot, because she has no way of knowing that; we hadn't known for sure that he was taught be YHS until his recent fight with Hoaqin.

We knew if we were paying attention when he fought Beta at the Workshop Battle, since he broke out a Yu Han Sung-style technique then.

 

Anyway, she needs a reality check. Apparently a stronger one than what Kaiser already served her.

Edited by Lester, 02 August 2016 - 11:03 AM.

[LaFa]

Then she needs to be educated. It's pretty much the height of stupid arrogance to think that she can easily dominate an Irregular who has been trained by FUG.

 

On this topic, Androssi reiterated the fact that they're taking the hard route when she can easily solve the problem in this chapter.

It also showed Androssi saying "..!" when Lilial talked about how Androssi would be praised and could avoid being discarded by the Zahard family if she defeated Viole.

Edited by LaFa, 02 August 2016 - 11:47 AM.