45 replies to this topic

[iazeru]

Hello everyone!
First and foremost: excuse me for my bad English, I'm working on it >_<
 
Condensed version:
I want to start a project that let Japanese publishers and scanlators work harmoniously, so that manga can thrive even more! Users will pay a small amount that will be shared between the copyright owner, the scangroup and my site, sustaining the economic of the manga industry. If you like this kind of reality, please give me your support, it is the only way to accomplish it!
 
General FAQs:

• Do you really think publishers will even talk to you? lol
  
  Spoiler

  No, I don't xD That's why the scangroup & the community's support is super important to make this real. I'm confident that with my plan and the might of the community, we will overwhelm even the ivory towers of big publishers such as Kodansha! I will also institute a company and hire a professional translator before going to them.
  
  
  
• You aren't the first one trying to do it, why should you succeed where others failed?
  
  Spoiler

  Because I learn from the errors of others. I've researched and studied the previous attempts, namely: JManga, MangaHelper and MangaReborn. There's also the Digital Manga Guild, but it's business model is awful, expect for the crowdfunding part. I know also a new guy, Rakuten Manga, but again, I don't think any scangroup sane of mind will chain themselves to it.
  JManga: they got right the company thing and had people already deep in the business, but even if they got 36 publishers right from the start, they failed nonetheless. Why that? I think the first error was the price too high, next the inability to legitimately download what you bought + limited accessibility (online reader and android app only) and last but not least, they haven't keep the initial promises.
  MangaHelper: awful execution. They lose on both fronts: publishers & community. Publishers repel them because they were "pirates", while they backstabbed the community and lose the majority of its support.
  MangaReborn: another poor execution. From what I know, they haven't sought the community's favor and the business model regarding translator isn't clear at all.
  
  And there is also a common error for them all: they tried to distort scanlation. From what I know, all of the above consider the figure of "translator" and not "scangroup", plus they were seen more like a bunch of freelancer to hire instead of important collaborators. That's the main difference.
  I'm here exactly because I fully understand the importance of community and that's why I want to tailor made the project around it.
  
  
  
• Why should they give precious licenses to a bunch of pirates?
  
  Spoiler

  First: I will require only non-exclusive licenses for digital distribution, so that others companies can distribute the manga too; they will have nothing to lose.
  Second and most important: because this "bunch of pirates" had demonstrated in all this years that they can keep up with Japan's releases more efficiently than the legal counterpart. Peek a manga you like and find the last volume available on Viz, then find the last one released in Japan. More often than not, Viz will be behind by a lot! You should also consider censures... *grr*
  Many groups produce high quality translations too and work hard to convey what the author meant. You know why? Because they are passionate in what they do! Passion is the best engine ever, but it is easily spoiled too. That's why if we want a sustainable system, we must provide the correct environment to let passion thrive. The only way I see is total freedom and I will wrestle hard with publishers to let them recognize it!
  
  
  
  
• What's about users? Why would they buy it when they can just download for free?
  
  Spoiler

  There's a lot of users who follow scanlation not because it is free, but because they are passionate too and want to stay up to date. This people will more gladly use a legal service to help mangaka and the industry keep running. If we can help scangroups too, it's even better! I know because I'm one of them.
  I'm also inspired by Steam for the business model. I want to make the service widely accessible and better than the free counterparts, with a better reader and flow. I want also to engage users, with something like achievements, events, etc... The overall experience will be better, so I think that many users will prefer to use it.
  I will battle piracy in a subtle way: rendering it useless! I know it will not be erased, but I think there will be a big change
  5 Piracy­Fighting Lessons From Steam for All Content Creators
  
  
  
• What's about Quality Assurance?
  
  Spoiler

  Yes, I'm a perfectionist and love quality over quantity. There will be a system of QA. My company will have a team of professional translators for each language and before the scangroups can join the platform, they will have to do a test. If I'll have enough resources, the QA team will also revision at least the first 3 chaps and if they are all good, then the scangroups can freely publish. If there will not be enough resources, than this process will be applied for the big hits or when there is more than one scangroups who want to translate the same manga.
  However the most important sentinel will be the user himself. Users will have the ability to report bad translations (eg: some phrases isn't clear or there are typos) and if a scangroup accumulate a bunch of them, the QA team will check and eventually suspend it.
  
  
  
• This is impossible. What happens when you fail?
  
  Spoiler

  You are right, chances are grim and it will probably fails. However I'm trying to limit the damage as much as possible and I think I've done a good job, because the only one who will lose something will be me. Exactly, me and me alone. I will never ask for moneys (except on kickstarter, of course) nor signs on contracts, the only thing I want from the community is its genuine supports! If the project start, then it will surely be a success, you can rest assured by then.
  I will invest my own money and all myself on this project; I will also resign from my job to work on it full-time after I get enough supports. All of this can sound crazy, but it is a proof I'm fully committed to make it real.
  
  
  
• Ok, but publishers aren't interested in the international market
  
  Spoiler

  This isn't true anymore. In the last few years they have been more and more interested in the global market, we have a bunch of proofs, such as the simul-pub on ChruncyRoll and the institution of Kodansha USA Publishing. Time changes everything and this is the best moment to try a project like this!
  
  
  
• They will never do a deal with pirates!
  
  Spoiler

  That's why a middleman like my company is required. I have clean records and trying right now to plant my roots in the community. This will make me the perfect bridge for this kind of deal, because the two partners will have to communicate only with me. I will be the guarantor for both of them and hence harmony will arise.
  
  
  
• What languages will be available?
  
  Spoiler

  Only English initially, but then all the ones that have a community big enough to sustain it. I wish to bring in Italian, France, Spanish, German and Russian.
  
  
  
• What kind of manga will you publish?
  
  Spoiler

  I will try to acquire licenses for any manga which scangroups are interested in. There's no point in licensing something nobody want to work on and vice versa xD
  
  
  
• This aim only to manga?
  
  Spoiler

  Yes, but only initially. When this start and I'll have enough resources, I'll move for manhwa and manha too.
  
  
  
• Who are you?
  
  Spoiler

  I'm a 26 and a fullstack web developer other than a manga lover. I will work hard to gain your trust, just give me sometime!
  
  
  

Scangroup's FAQs:

• How does it work?
  
  Spoiler

  The flow is like this:

  • The publisher upload an HQ version of last manga's chap
  • If you are translating it, you will be notified
  • Download the chap and do your magic
  • Publish it on the platform
  • An user buy it  and your group will receive a share
  
  
  
• Will you expose us to publishers?
  
  Spoiler

  Absolutely not! I will not expose scangroups to anyone. I usually don't talk of which scangroup accepted even with the others scangroups. The only thing publishers will know is the number: how many of you are backing me. If they want a proof, I will send them a 3 scans sample for each group, and each one of them will choose which page to send, so it can also be totally unrelated to their past works. This will come in hand if they want to assert the quality too.
  If the proof will not suffice, then the deal just fails.
  
  
  
• Hey, are you trying to dismember my group?
  
  Spoiler

  Hell no! This project focus on scangroups, you will have your personal page with all your releases, who are the members, etc... After the launch, a mini-blog will be implemented to let you post directly there and interact with your fanbase more easily. Users will always know who translated which chapter ^^
  
  
  
• Sorry, but I don't like to work with others
  
  Spoiler

  No problem! The system is devised with each scangroup working on its own. A Manga can be translated by many groups and I don't mean a joint This can seems like a waste of resources, but I don't think so. Each group's translation is unique, maybe you catch an hint that someone else overlooked, so it's uncommon two translations will be the same. I also think a little bit of competition is good and will help the overall quality to raise ^^
  
  
  
• For me this is just an hobby, I don't want to be "hired" nor obligations!
  
  Spoiler

  Yes, I know it very well. This is the biggest difference with all the previous failed projects: scangroups will have total freedom and can continue to do this as an hobby. You will decide what manga to translate, what program to use, when you'll do it, etc... Joining the project will be free and you will not have deadlines, nor minimum sales.
  There's no big difference from what you are used to, except now it will be legal and you can choose only the manga in the catalog, but I will work very hard to give you all the manga you want to work on
  Even if you grow tired for some reasons, you just stop publishing new chaps and that's it. You will still continue to earn from your past works even when inactive
  
  
  
• I don't think is ethical to take money for an hobby... / I'm scared money will ruin my group...
  
  Spoiler

  I totally respect this! That's why, if you don't want to accept money, you can devolve your share directly to the mangaka. Please note, the mangaka and not the publisher. It will be something like a donation and he/she will be notified of your generosity ^^
  
  
  
• Ok, we could be interested, what we have to do?
  
  Spoiler

  Not much! Just contact me privately or say your support in this topic ^^ I will ask you to give me some direct contact, possibly an e-mail (it haven't to be your personal, just one you check regularly). I will update you when there's some big news on the project and when the time will come, I'll ask you to give me a list of manga you already translated or would like to and possibly the 3 samples ^^

Edited by iazeru, 07 June 2016 - 09:20 PM.

[101010]

This is so absurd I can't tell if you are trolling or you are simply ridiculously naive. Have you even tried speaking with some of the Japanese publishers to see if they acknowledge the existence of a nobody gaijin like you, let alone approve of your ``business plan''? Don't even get me started on the whole mess of rewarding scanlators, putting the content behind a paywall, and the rest.

[Gala Lion]

TLTR

[iazeru]

This is so absurd I can't tell if you are trolling or you are simply ridiculously naive. Have you even tried speaking with some of the Japanese publishers to see if they acknowledge the existence of a nobody gaijin like you, let alone approve of your ``business plan''? Don't even get me started on the whole mess of rewarding scanlators, putting the content behind a paywall, and the rest.

 

Obviously right now they will never acknowledge me nor my project, that's why I need the support of users & scanlators to have any chance. I know this can sound crazy, but I'm confident enough that if all the step are executed with success, this can be accomplished. It's like a domino. If all tiles are aligned correctly, a beautiful motion will unfold. But still, the first tile has to move or nothing will change and stillness will reign.

 

Regarding your "pay wall", please don't get me wrong now. As I already said, I'm really grateful to scanlators and their work because at the moment this is the only way to stay up to date with manga and sometime to read one at all, without considering the quality of some "official translations"!

However we all should admit that this still cause a damage to the industry. It's a small paradox, I'll say. Scanlators do what they do because manga doesn't receive enough attentions by the various publishers in each Country, but those same publishers don't give much attention to manga also because of scanlators. Will you invest a considerable sum of money in something that it's already distributed for free? This trend is decreasing but it's still there.

What I want to do is not caging manga behind a wall, but instead giving to mangaka and scanlators the credits they deserve. You should remember that the job of mangaka is really a complex one and they do this also for a living. Come up with a good story is hard. Keep up with the schedules and deadlines can be even harder. Is it really that strange to pay for their work? I honestly don't think so.

I also want to keep price affordable for everyone and do something like Steam do: lots of sales. I've a good amount of ideas that I think will satisfy the majority of people.

 

The Japanese publishers will not be moved by a nobody like me, that's for sure, but by the power and passion of our community IF our community move.

 

 

 

@Gala Lion: I included a very condensed version in the first post just for you! xD

Edited by iazeru, 18 May 2016 - 07:53 PM.

[SystematicChaos]

Look, I appreciate your enthusiasm, and lord knows I want to see broader legal options for translated manga worldwide. But I think this plan is idealistic at best, and even if you had the whole of the scanlation community behind you I don't think this is going to work. You've identified the problem with the business models of different sites as treating scanlators as employees rather than nursing their passion. Having done a bit of work for Manga Reborn in the past I think this is at least partially an accurate assessment, but you may have neglected to think about why this problem exists. Simply put, Japanese entertainment producers in any industry are highly controlling over their properties. If something's going to be translated into a different language, they want to have a say in how it's translated and released. They place a high emphasis on building trust with licensers and foreign publishers. That's how Japanese businesses operate; they're highly conservative and very unlikely to adopt new ideas like crowdsourcing (which is basically what this is). And the last thing they're going to do is leave their intellectual property in the hands of internet randoms, particularly if those randoms have been involved in (what at the very least they most certainly perceive to be, and if we're being honest, what actually is) piracy.

 

I'm not trying to crush your dreams or tell you to give up. Like I said, the more legal channels there are for translated manga worldwide, the better. But I think what you need to do is go a little bit further in your thinking, planning, and research, certainly before you invest any of your own money into it. JManga and MangaReborn had other problems in their business models that I think were far more central to their failure or underperformance than that they treated their translators as employees, and the solutions to these problems might be far more simple and feasible than your plan as it stands now. But I would especially do some research on the Japanese publishing industry if I were you.

[besiege211]

I'll go into detail later, but the gist of it is that such a venture is really next to impossible.  The fact of putting most manga behind a paywall and expecting continuous content relies on the acquisition of high profile series that are next to impossible to obtain.  There is a difficulty in gathering enough volunteers for some groups as it is, and to basically require a lawyer for every chapter to be on hand is not even in the realm of possibility for most groups.  

 

Also, many publishers use the scan community to gauge interest in certain series before they obtain the licence, which the original publishers will want a LOT of money up front as well as royalties.  

 

I do not mean to discount your ideas, but do not go forward with this before making many inquiries within the industry itself.  Don't start with the scanslators.

 

Returning in a bit.

[iazeru]

Look, I appreciate your enthusiasm, and lord knows I want to see broader legal options for translated manga worldwide. But I think this plan is idealistic at best, and even if you had the whole of the scanlation community behind you I don't think this is going to work. You've identified the problem with the business models of different sites as treating scanlators as employees rather than nursing their passion. Having done a bit of work for Manga Reborn in the past I think this is at least partially an accurate assessment, but you may have neglected to think about why this problem exists. Simply put, Japanese entertainment producers in any industry are highly controlling over their properties. If something's going to be translated into a different language, they want to have a say in how it's translated and released. They place a high emphasis on building trust with licensers and foreign publishers. That's how Japanese businesses operate; they're highly conservative and very unlikely to adopt new ideas like crowdsourcing (which is basically what this is). And the last thing they're going to do is leave their intellectual property in the hands of internet randoms, particularly if those randoms have been involved in (what at the very least they most certainly perceive to be, and if we're being honest, what actually is) piracy.

 

I'm not trying to crush your dreams or tell you to give up. Like I said, the more legal channels there are for translated manga worldwide, the better. But I think what you need to do is go a little bit further in your thinking, planning, and research, certainly before you invest any of your own money into it. JManga and MangaReborn had other problems in their business models that I think were far more central to their failure or underperformance than that they treated their translators as employees, and the solutions to these problems might be far more simple and feasible than your plan as it stands now. But I would especially do some research on the Japanese publishing industry if I were you.

 

This is the kind of answers I hoped to receive, thank you I also know that MangaReborn and the lots had a very big problem confronting with the publishers, especially the bigger one and for the most important series. I think this was also because at the time they can't really guarantee much because it was just and idea supported by a company (JManga) or a team (MangaReborn). It will be the same if I go there alone.

That's said, if you go on Viz or Chruncy, the two only serious digital manga site that I know, are always behind to Japan release. EG: Shokugeki no Soma is a quite popular manga and also got an anime, but on Viz the last volume available is #11, while in Japan it's 18 and you should add another 2 volumes if we consider the unreleased chap.

It's just natural that a company can't keep up with the release of Japan because mangaka works independently and the translation companies will never have enough resources to cover them all.

On the other hand, the collective efforts possible through internet and fired by passion have demonstrated that keep up with Japan IS possible. Because scanlators works with passion, many times the resulting translation is even better than the official one. For example, in my country they tend to change the PGs' name and so Luffy (One Piece) becomes "Rubber" °___° Can you believe that?! I have to say this is another declining trend, but again, it's still there.

I think all this fact if present well to publishers and with the might of our community behind, have a concrete possibility to shake even the Japanese publishers.

There's also a crowdfunding step and if it succeed will be the most amazing and undeniable proof that users are interested and trust the works of scanlators. This should be enough to make it real.

 

What do you think was the others problem with JManga and MangaReborn? I've only read about them, maybe you can give a more accurate insight? It will be definitely appreciated! More info we collect, less errors we'll do and more chances we'll have! ^^

 

I'll go into detail later, but the gist of it is that such a venture is really next to impossible.  The fact of putting most manga behind a paywall and expecting continuous content relies on the acquisition of high profile series that are next to impossible to obtain.  There is a difficulty in gathering enough volunteers for some groups as it is, and to basically require a lawyer for every chapter to be on hand is not even in the realm of possibility for most groups.  

 

Also, many publishers use the scan community to gauge interest in certain series before they obtain the licence, which the original publishers will want a LOT of money up front as well as royalties.  

 

I do not mean to discount your ideas, but do not go forward with this before making many inquiries within the industry itself.  Don't start with the scanslators.

 

Returning in a bit.

 

I will require only non-exclusive licenses, this means that publishers will have nothing to lose because they can give the same license to someone else. This should increase our chance of success on obtaining licenses and also note that they will get a big share of the revenues that will be lost otherwise, forever.

Sorry, I don't get the part about the lawyers, why do you think it will be required for each chap? It will not be necessary, probably a check during the registration to the site or the upload of a chap will be legally enough. In the worst scenario scangroups will have to sign a contract where they just say they will grant the site the rights do distribute their works and also commit to don't distribute any licensed manga for free. Nothing more than that.

 

As I already said, if I go to the Japanese industry empty handed, they will never even look at me, I know they are an ivory tower. The scanlators and community support is the first step, there's no other way if we want to have any chance to make it real.

Please note that I'm requiring nothing bounding, I just want their word that IF the project comes to life and IF it's like I promised it will be, THEN they will get on board and just use it. I want to trust their word alone, this is the kind of man I am.

I just want commitment: you, they and even the publishers will have nothing to lose, literally. As I said, I don't want to mess with people.

Edited by iazeru, 19 May 2016 - 09:12 AM.

[Mrvirus]

How will you handle the quality part, if I may ask? HQ scans doesn't means HQ quality, and not every "Scanlators" do it out of passion but something else, another problem is the free for everyone, popular series will have many groups working on them, there will be many many different version to choose(Because money is involved, obviously). Will there be example pages where readers can view before the purchase? Also the paywall, most readers don't give a **** about the authours or Scanlators, all they care about is "free stuff". This also means "Scanlators" will care less about quality, because ealier release = more money, cause most readers read the ealier release. 

[Bokuboy]

Here are my thoughts...

 

-

So, you're basically saying that you want people to pay you money for something that everyone can get for free* anyways?

(*Please Note: 'free' being a relative term for the availability of content provided by fans (scanlators) for fans)

 

Yeah, that is NEVER going to happen.

 

People do this stuff because they like it... and like that they can make other fans really happy by providing the translations they so desperately want because they are fans as well.

 

If you try to turn it into a business, into something that they HAVE to do, it will die a death so fast that you won't know what happened to it.

I can't really put it more bluntly than that.

-

 

If, by some sheer fluke, you got enough scanlators/groups, or even just exclusive raw providers with enough manga (and their relative licenses) to justify a paid business model, you'd take away everything that the community has been building for years. I agree with Mrvirus in the above post... the quality will severely decrease and not justify the cost.

 

That's what I believe, anyways.

[Natureboy]

Not that I've been around the scanlation community as long as many people here, but the only context where I've seen a successful transition from an enthusiast provided scans to a 'work-for-hire' model was translating ecchi/borderline hentai manga (for example, providing professional quality re-releases of Velvet Kiss). As far as I know, those involved direct negotiations among the scanlators and English license holders who didn't want to start from scratch. There wasn't a third party match-maker, the way you envision.

 

It may have helped that erotic manga already had an established practice of scanlation 'on commission'.

 

edit: The creation and subsequent failure of Tokyo Pop was before I started reading much manga. Accounts I've read suggested that love for the form helped motivate some of the people working on that project, but the market still needed to pay the bills of a for-profit publisher.

Edited by Natureboy, 22 May 2016 - 06:07 AM.

[iazeru]

How will you handle the quality part, if I may ask? HQ scans doesn't means HQ quality, and not every "Scanlators" do it out of passion but something else, another problem is the free for everyone, popular series will have many groups working on them, there will be many many different version to choose(Because money is involved, obviously). Will there be example pages where readers can view before the purchase? Also the paywall, most readers don't give a **** about the authours or Scanlators, all they care about is "free stuff". This also means "Scanlators" will care less about quality, because ealier release = more money, cause most readers read the ealier release. 

 

I have to admit that the QA parts is still in development and any suggestion will be appreciated. At the moment, I plan to have a quality check upfront by an internal team, when the scanlator register and for an X amount of releases, depending on how well they perform. I don't really know if, especially at the beginning, I will have enough resources to do so efficiently. Perhaps we'll just do this when there's more than 1 group who want to translate the same manga or for the more popular ones.

The other part of the system is the user herself. Everyone who bought a chap can also up or downvote it based on the quality; the downvote should be motivated. If some scangroup got too much negative feedback, then the internal team will check and possibly suspend it for that manga or for the entire site.

I will also try to give appeal to other less popular manga raising the % the scangroup get on each sale for it until there's enough monthly sales.

I'm also thinking on giving access to all the various versions of a chap, so the user can choose which group they prefer based on the actual work. We have three way:

• the user choose which scangroup upfront, and maybe will choose another one the next time after checking the others available.
• the sale go to the chap with the most % of read pages. Two problems: what to do if the user don't read the chap or read more than one completely?
• the user choose upfront but can also change the sale. Perhaps if they check another version and read at least 30% of it, a dialog popup asking them if they want to change the preferred scangroup. If the prev scangroup haven't been paid yet, then the sale go to the other one.

I was planning on discussing this with the scangroups when the time comes. I don't think will be good for anyone if we lock the various version of the same chap.

We are also considering a subscription model where the dividends are shared based on chap views, but here a question arise: if I read one chap and then another version, should this count as 2 views or 1 view?

 

Please took in mind that this, like any other project, can't address the needs of everyone and is naïve to hope it will erase manga piracy completely. What it can do is create a nice environment where people who actually care for the scangroups and mangaka, for the opera itself, can express their gratitude and support them. The idea came to me exactly when I searched for a service like this and also found a post where other users were looking for the same thing.

 

 

Not that I've been around the scanlation community as long as many people here, but the only context where I've seen a successful transition from an enthusiast provided scans to a 'work-for-hire' model was translating ecchi/borderline hentai manga (for example, providing professional quality re-releases of Velvet Kiss). As far as I know, those involved direct negotiations among the scanlators and English license holders who didn't want to start from scratch. There wasn't a third party match-maker, the way you envision.

 

It may have helped that erotic manga already had an established practice of scanlation 'on commission'.

 

edit: The creation and subsequent failure of Tokyo Pop was before I started reading much manga. Accounts I've read suggested that love for the form helped motivate some of the people working on that project, but the market still needed to pay the bills of a for-profit publisher.

 

I didn't know about Tokyo Pop, I will research it, thanks ^^

 

 

Here are my thoughts...

 

-

So, you're basically saying that you want people to pay you money for something that everyone can get for free* anyways?

(*Please Note: 'free' being a relative term for the availability of content provided by fans (scanlators) for fans)

 

Yeah, that is NEVER going to happen.

 

I think I already answered it on the first part of this post.

 

 

People do this stuff because they like it... and like that they can make other fans really happy by providing the translations they so desperately want because they are fans as well.

 

If you try to turn it into a business, into something that they HAVE to do, it will die a death so fast that you won't know what happened to it.

I can't really put it more bluntly than that.

-

 

If, by some sheer fluke, you got enough scanlators/groups, or even just exclusive raw providers with enough manga (and their relative licenses) to justify a paid business model, you'd take away everything that the community has been building for years. I agree with Mrvirus in the above post... the quality will severely decrease and not justify the cost.

 

That's what I believe, anyways.

 

That's exactly what I'm trying to do NOT xD I understand their passion because it is also my passion and I don't want to see it spoiled! That's why I'm 100% committed to give scangroups all the freedom they want and if publishers will not accept this in any way, then the project just fails. But hey, we will never found out if we don't try!

I honestly think that quality will increase in this environment because each sale will be a concrete signal that users are supporting their work. If I was a scangroup's member, this will motivate me to improve myself even more, is always good to see your work appreciated and your passion shared ^^

Edited by iazeru, 22 May 2016 - 11:08 AM.

[iazeru]

To all of you who think the big publishers will never accept this kind of project, please read this article:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2015-09-15/kodansha-advanced-media-on-the-future-of-manga/.92965

 

I think now is the right moment to give a try, because the awareness and desire to bring manga outside Japan seems very high!

They even cite JManga as something they miss!

Edited by iazeru, 22 May 2016 - 03:14 PM.

[Mrvirus]

I plan to have a quality check upfront by an internal team.

 

What do you mean by this? Like hiring professional to check on the work? Or having a group that you trust checking the work? Then again, how do you know that that group is doing HQ quality?

 

Everyone who bought a chap can also up or downvote it based on the quality; the downvote should be motivated. If some scangroup got too much negative feedback, then the internal team will check and possibly suspend it for that manga or for the entire site.

 

Does this mean the user will get refund if they do not like the work? Or only when the work is suspended will they get refund? Or no refund at all?

 

I honestly think that quality will increase in this environment because each sale will be a concrete signal that users are supporting their work. If I was a scangroup's member, this will motivate me to improve myself even more, is always good to see your work appreciated and your passion shared ^^

 

This thought of yours has holes in it, like I told you, most readers don't care about quality, but only a few do, and from business point of view: "why bother with quality when quantity gives you more money?" People won't complain as long as it's not shit quality, like very LQ, then why would a group focusing on HQ when MQ/LQ+ brings in more money? It doens't signal them to improve their work, but it signal them to release faster for more $$.

 

Also this will push small HQ group that care bout the manga and the authour off because they don't have enough resources to keep up with speed scans, and as long as the speed scans keeps the work in LQ+ or MQ, there's no need for them to actually do it in HQ. The point is, when money is involved in scanlation, things will become complicated, and the quality of the work will decrease, unless, it's a big group that can keep up with the competition. But even big and well known group also **** up when there's competition, as I have seen already.

Edited by Mrvirus, 24 May 2016 - 02:24 AM.

[iazeru]

What do you mean by this? Like hiring professional to check on the work? Or having a group that you trust checking the work? Then again, how do you know that that group is doing HQ quality?

 
First thing: thank you, this is the kind of answers I hope for!
Regarding the team, I'm planning of hiring professionals translators for QA only and maybe as security net in case all the scangroup who translate a big hit just go away at the same time. So, the internal team will try to keep up until someone else doesn't come in.

 

Does this mean the user will get refund if they do not like the work? Or only when the work is suspended will they get refund? Or no refund at all?

This is a good point that I haven't though about. I suppose all the users who downvoted their works can get a refund or maybe a discount on the next buy if the scangroup is actually suspended.

I'll think more on this, because I don't want user who just downvote everything hoping in a refund °_° But I think is possible installing an algorithm that signal this kind of behaviors
 

This thought of yours has holes in it, like I told you, most readers don't care about quality, but only a few do, and from business point of view: "why bother with quality when quantity gives you more money?" People won't complain as long as it's not shit quality, like very LQ, then why would a group focusing on HQ when MQ/LQ+ brings in more money? It doens't signal them to improve their work, but it signal them to release faster for more $$.
 
Also this will push small HQ group that care bout the manga and the authour off because they don't have enough resources to keep up with speed scans, and as long as the speed scans keeps the work in LQ+ or MQ, there's no need for them to actually do it in HQ. The point is, when money is involved in scanlation, things will become complicated, and the quality of the work will decrease, unless, it's a big group that can keep up with the competition. But even big and well known group also **** up when there's competition, as I have seen already.

 

This is a good point too, but I hope the internal QA will be enough to prevent the shitty releases. I also though that when there's more than one group translating a manga, to delay the first release until all groups have finished or up to 24h. This should discourage a speed LQ release, but can create a mess and I don't really think I'll implement this, but what do you think about?

Do you have any suggestions on how preventing shitty releases? I'm a perfectionist and prefer quality over quantity/speed, so this is a really important point for me.

[Mrvirus]

This is a good point that I haven't though about. I suppose all the users who downvoted their works can get a refund or maybe a discount on the next buy if the scangroup is actually suspended.

I'll think more on this, because I don't want user who just downvote everything hoping in a refund °_° But I think is possible installing an algorithm that signal this kind of behaviors

 

Instead of having an upvote and downvote where it's easily mistaken as "good chapter/bad chapter" have a "Report for LQ work" and let's say if a certain amount of percentace of readers report this work, then let the internal team check the work, if it's indeed of LQ then provide a refund, and suspend/warn the group, but then again, this can be abuse. 

 

 

This is a good point too, but I hope the internal QA will be enough to prevent the shitty releases. I also though that when there's more than one group translating a manga, to delay the first release until all groups have finished or up to 24h. This should discourage a speed LQ release, but can create a mess and I don't really think I'll implement this, but what do you think about?

Do you have any suggestions on how preventing shitty releases? I'm a perfectionist and prefer quality over quantity/speed, so this is a really important point for me.

 

Like you said, an upfront check, then at interval, choose a few chapters and have it checked: I.E once a month, select 3 chapters out of 10 chapters the group do and let the internal team check for quality. Not the best method but can prevent shitty release to a certain degree and should reduce the cost, given every time the internal team check means you have to pay them, also you will rely on the good will of the readers to report LQ work. 

 

And good luck with your project. It's a nice idea, but as Scanlation right now, it's might prove difficult to make it happen.

Edited by Mrvirus, 24 May 2016 - 05:04 PM.

[iazeru]

Instead of having an upvote and downvote where it's easily mistaken as "good chapter/bad chapter" have a "Report for LQ work" and let's say if a certain amount of percentace of readers report this work, then let the internal team check the work, if it's indeed of LQ then provide a refund, and suspend/warn the group, but then again, this can be abuse.

I totally like this! I suppose having a "like" for the chapter will be good too, but clearly separating the function for reporting bad quality is better than just a downvote!
 

Like you said, an upfront check, then at interval, choose a few chapters and have it checked: I.E once a month, select 3 chapters out of 10 chapters the group do and let the internal team check for quality. Not the best method but can prevent shitty release to a certain degree and should reduce the cost, given every time the internal team check means you have to pay them, also you will rely on the good will of the readers to report LQ work.

 
To be honest, I though of checking the scans only for an X amount of times (let's say the first 3 releases if they are all good) and have faith in the group after that, but I think a periodic check will be nice to have when we'll have enough resources ^^
 

And good luck with your project. It's a nice idea, but as Scanlation right now, it's might prove difficult to make it happen.

 

Thank you, but why do you think Scanlation isn't prepared for this kind of project yet?

Edited by iazeru, 24 May 2016 - 10:47 PM.

[Mrvirus]

Thank you, but why do you think Scanlation isn't prepared for this kind of project yet?

 

Scanlations is no longer "do out of passion/care about the authour" this might still be true for some group/small ones, but as of now it's a business. Big and well known group can support themselves, why would they share the "cake" with other when they can get the whole "cake" for themselves and get away with it?

 

There's also the free for all rules, but I'm sure you will figure something out

 

GL anyway

Edited by Mrvirus, 26 May 2016 - 04:51 AM.

[iazeru]

Considering all the scangroups I've talked to, the problem is always they don't want to get money for their hobby xD I don't know, maybe I've just been lucky and found only the right scangroups lol

Regarding the "whole cake", that's not really a problem, it's the same as when you do an IPO and the like: you actually lose a big share of your company revenues, but you can invest more, become bigger and in the hand you make a lot more money than before. Collaborative efforts always repay There's also the legal perspective to think about.

So, I think anyone, despite why they are in the scanlation world, can benefit from this project, it's carefully though to be a win-win solution for everyone ^^

[Saiko Scans]

The whole idea is really good, but nothing new I believe. I do remember MangaReborn doing something similar. The thing is, that we scanlators don't do this so we can make money from it. We do it, because we like it. I'll list some reasons why I scanlate Manga :

 

1.) Translate manga, so that it can reach many people. People often don't read manga, because they don't know the language. Hence, we remove that barrier.

2.) Giving back to community.

3.) When I see "Dropped Manga Series", it hurts me a lot, because it hurts when you can't read the story ahead because you don't understand the language.

4.) To learn and grasp more experience and knowledge in PhotoShop.

5.) To kill some time.

6.) To get e-penis, lel.

 

 

These are just some reasons why I scanlate. It's a hobby and I'd like to keep it that way.

 

Publishers and Scanlators getting together? erm NOPE, can't see that happening anytime soon.

 

If scanlation groups do join this "business plan" of yours, that means, they'll be doing a job, which obviously requires dedication to it and deadlines and what not. It's not rare to see that groups drop the projects all the time due to basic reasons like "no translator", "some important person lost the interest in series" etc. etc. If you get paid, you just can't drop the series mid way and you'd have to be consistent.

 

Even if you have the community on your side, I hardly believe that the publishers will accept this. Why? Legal reasons, duh!

 

 

So, the best would be, instead of asking the community first, talk to some publishers first and get their opinion and views on the matter. When you have something to surely back you up, then look for Scanlation groups that'll be interested.

 

Everyone above this post have already made valid points, and most of us (if not all) share the same POV more or less.

 

 

Then there's problem like Quality assurance. let's say I paid to read a chapter and the group did an awful job. The cleaning isn't good, grammatical errors, typo, etc. etc. I'd really hate to pay up and get "crap". Plus, if you say that, you will keep "QC" to check each and every chapter, how many people can you pay up for QC? 'cause there isn't just 1 release to check. Depending upon the group count, the series counts can be high or low. If it's low, that ain't a problem.

 

Plus, pay per chapter? that is going to be costly for people who read a lot of manga... 20 - 30 manga at the same time. Do you have any plan for that?

Edited by Saiko Scans, 26 May 2016 - 01:26 PM.

[iazeru]

The whole idea is really good, but nothing new I believe. I do remember MangaReborn doing something similar.

Yep, I know, I've already talked about it in the first post and also said why this project is different.
 

The thing is, that we scanlators don't do this so we can make money from it. We do it, because we like it. I'll list some reasons why I scanlate Manga :
 
1.) Translate manga, so that it can reach many people. People often don't read manga, because they don't know the language. Hence, we remove that barrier.
2.) Giving back to community.
3.) When I see "Dropped Manga Series", it hurts me a lot, because it hurts when you can't read the story ahead because you don't understand the language.
4.) To learn and grasp more experience and knowledge in PhotoShop.
5.) To kill some time.
6.) To get e-penis, lel.
 
 
These are just some reasons why I scanlate. It's a hobby and I'd like to keep it that way.

That's exactly why I'm totally grateful to you, guys! xD Because I don't know Japanese (yet), your passion and generosity is truly important for me.
 

If scanlation groups do join this "business plan" of yours, that means, they'll be doing a job, which obviously requires dedication to it and deadlines and what not. It's not rare to see that groups drop the projects all the time due to basic reasons like "no translator", "some important person lost the interest in series" etc. etc. If you get paid, you just can't drop the series mid way and you'd have to be consistent.

Nope. I though I've talked about this enough, but here again, I perfectly know scangroups do this as an hobby and there's lots of reason because a scanlator have to backoff. I also know that if a fundamental person lose his interest, not one but many groups could just die. I know that because I'm studying and this convince me even more that total freedom is the first requisite to make this happen and to be sustainable. This can seems contradictory, but trust me, history tell us it's not.

Please note that you will be paid for what you have done and not for something you will have to do! You get paid when an user buy a chap you already published. You will not sign any contract that force you to translate this or that manga.

You will translate what you want and as much as you want, just like you already do; the only difference will be the limited catalog, but I'll work hard to let you access as much manga as possible!

That's why who want to let this be a simple hobby, can totally do that

 

Even if you have the community on your side, I hardly believe that the publishers will accept this. Why? Legal reasons, duh!
 
 
So, the best would be, instead of asking the community first, talk to some publishers first and get their opinion and views on the matter. When you have something to surely back you up, then look for Scanlation groups that'll be interested.
 
Everyone above this post have already made valid points, and most of us (if not all) share the same POV more or less.
 
 
Then there's problem like Quality assurance. let's say I paid to read a chapter and the group did an awful job. The cleaning isn't good, grammatical errors, typo, etc. etc. I'd really hate to pay up and get "crap". Plus, if you say that, you will keep "QC" to check each and every chapter, how many people can you pay up for QC? 'cause there isn't just 1 release to check. Depending upon the group count, the series counts can be high or low. If it's low, that ain't a problem.
 
Plus, pay per chapter? that is going to be costly for people who read a lot of manga... 20 - 30 manga at the same time. Do you have any plan for that?

 

I think the legal reason would be exactly why publishers will listen to us. They know that scanlation is a big thing and, even if for some point of view it help the manga culture to spread, it still cause a significant damage to the industry.

However, as MangaHelper demonstrated, they aren't willing to directly cooperate with "pirates". That's why my clean records will come in hand and why I can be the bridge that unite the two facets of the same medal.

 

That's said, I can't really go to the publishers without your support, sadly I'm not a VIP or anything like that, hence I need you to be credible and tell them this is something concrete if they want to. Please note that in the last year Japan is a lot more interested in the international market for manga, that's why I think this is the right moment to strike!

If you really like the idea as you said, please give me a chance! ^^

Edited by iazeru, 26 May 2016 - 01:58 PM.