185 replies to this topic

[GrimNights]

I would have to agree with partysan love isn't about the numbers, so it would be possible to love them whole heartily since you love them both for 2 different reasons.

[Alberich]

OMFG, What is going to happen in the next chapter before what we see between Matsukawa and Harisugawa =O!!!

[ValorantX]

I vehemently disagree. The love a person feels cannot be mathmatically limited in this way. Love is a state of mind a person falls into in relation to another person and the strength of the emotion can indeed vary, but the number of people triggering the response do not neccessarily influence the strength of it. A person doesn't have a number of "units of love" somehow saved in them and distribute it between people.
Now a polyamorous relationship does require you to split your time between your lovers, that's true. But it doesn't require you to split your emotion, rather each person has their own love you feel for them.

Let's not play with words here, I never said that it's something calculated mathematically. I'm not saying you can't feel love for both people, I'm saying that you can't give love whole heartidly to two people because a relationship is more than just feelings, it's about being committed to a person. Someone who feels love towards two people will often feel conflicted to decide on who they like better or "love" more, and these feelings are what I think will prevent Harisugawa for giving 100% of his love to more than one person. And there's always that question lingering in one's mind on how to choose in the future.

Edited by Saphsin, 03 December 2011 - 01:26 AM.

[desiant]

Things just got real at the end of the latest chapter. I wonder what's going to happen...

[darksideofsilentbob]

i vote harem.i mean why not works for konokon lol

[theroadstopshere]

So he did manage to confess to Matsukawa, and she even agreed to go along with the "he gets them both" ending. It looks like he's out of the mirror (either that or the mirror just shattered, in which case it sucks to be harisugawa) and if the mirror is actually broken then no one else can get puled into the mirror like he did. So if the mirror really is broken then it looks like the story's over...

Let's not play with words here, I never said that it's something calculated mathematically. I'm not saying you can't feel love for both people, I'm saying that you can't give love whole heartidly to two people because a relationship is more than just feelings, it's about being committed to a person. Someone who feels love towards two people will feel often feel conflicted to decide on who they like better or "love" more, and these feelings are what I think will prevent Harisugawa for giving 100% of his love to more than one person.

That's probably true, especially given Harisugawa's personality. It is certainly true for real-life relationships. However, because this is manga, Mao and Saki are likely to end up sharing Harisugawa equally, with the two of them working together to make the awkward relationship work. What is more popular with readers is always printed in preference to what is realistic.

[Partysan]

Let's not play with words here, I never said that it's something calculated mathematically. I'm not saying you can't feel love for both people, I'm saying that you can't give love whole heartidly to two people because a relationship is more than just feelings, it's about being committed to a person. Someone who feels love towards two people will often feel conflicted to decide on who they like better or "love" more, and these feelings are what I think will prevent Harisugawa for giving 100% of his love to more than one person. And there's always that question lingering in one's mind on how to choose in the future.

I disagree again, although not as vehemently as before. I don't know whether you have experienced this, but I cannot confirm your claim that one would "feel conflicted to decide on who they like better or "love" more", absolutely not. In my experience the problems are mostly a question of time management (which, if you so choose, can be counted as "commitment"). Furthermore, it is not always neccessary to choose. Now that said...

That's probably true, especially given Harisugawa's personality. It is certainly true for real-life relationships. However, because this is manga, Mao and Saki are likely to end up sharing Harisugawa equally, with the two of them working together to make the awkward relationship work. What is more popular with readers is always printed in preference to what is realistic.

...it is still very much possible that this becomes a problem, simply because Harisugawa and the girls are traditional and somewhat clueless teenagers and it is doubtful that they could even conceive of the idea of a polyamorous relationship, much less make it work. This is more difficult to pull off than a simple pair, I'm not denying that. It can work, however, and it does so beautifully for a lot of real life people (and some harem protagonists).

[Sality]

cliffhanger on chp 21 >.<

[Colour]

cliffhanger on chp 21 >.<

GAH~ Tell me about it D: I really want to know what happens next.

[ValorantX]

I mean the question is if something significant happens, like Harisugawa gaining the advantage of temporarily coming out of the mirror or something, or if that bright light is just a sign of a completed step.

[Sality]

Spoiler

*sigh* the harem scene ended

[Aquinox]

oook. Definitely no harem, but now I'm curious if the condition of 'forced return' still holds.

Her feelings are gone, that's that, but it would be somehow boring if this were the only change...

On the other hand, the bar for coming out of the window is now set (IMO) to an impassable height for Harisugawa. (NB: tower of golf-balls )
But maybe, just maybe, she lost her feeling for him because this confession was based on somehow half-assed feelings.

[zetina]

On the other hand, the bar for coming out of the window is now set (IMO) to an impassable height for Harisugawa. (NB: tower of golf-balls )

Ooooh! I think the whole moral/point/message of the manga is here! Or rather, brought back to the foreground!

[ValorantX]

I'm a bit confused, (if we assume the whole witch story is true) wasn't the love mirror designed so that two people would learn to love each other for the rest of their lives....

[Aquinox]

[...] (if we assume the whole witch story is true) [...]

You put your finger on the spot - or at least one of them. If we can assume the story to be true, but it might just as well be an exaggeration of sorts.

But - guessing again - we could say that this run was a failure because the love, at least on Harisugawa's side, was not "wholesome".

[Purple Library Guy]

What you guys are missing is the major possible implication: Does that mean that if he reaches mutual love with Satomi and escapes the mirror entirely, it will only be at the cost of losing her love as soon as he's out? He's loved her a lot longer, probably a lot stronger. Would he even be willing to lose all hope just to escape? Until he can find a better solution he may be stuck with life in the mirror just because not only is he afraid to fail and disappear, he's afraid to succeed and then have his love taken away.
I still find it annoying. It's monkeywrenching the assumptions again. At this rate it's just going to keep going from one arbitrary twist to another, and when it's time to wrap it all up the mangaka will just make up one last schtick and it's solved. I'd rather it be character driven.

[ValorantX]

Ah well it's not like I haven't thought of the dilemna of Harisugawa not wanting to leave the mirror if it costs Satomi's love, you were just the first person to bring it up haha. It's hard to put a correct outlook on the matter because there are problems with reasonably dealing with a plot like in which only parts of a person's memories disappear. Such as in Shakugan no Shana where one person becomes a torch and disappears from existence, everyone around them loses their memories of them. But everything in that occurs in a person's lifetime is deterministic and is affected by the results of your interactions with all the people you met but yet the author simply churns out the memories of one person as if it's such a simple thing. If Satomi and Saki lose their love for Harisugawa, how would it affect their personality and character; would they lose all their memories that dealt with their feelings with Harisugawa or would they be manipulated?

[tuatara]

But everything in that occurs in a person's lifetime is deterministic and is affected by the results of your interactions with all the people you met but yet the author simply churns out the memories of one person as if it's such a simple thing. If Satomi and Saki lose their love for Harisugawa, how would it affect their personality and character; would they lose all their memories that dealt with their feelings with Harisugawa or would they be manipulated?

This exactly. See Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind for the definitive example of this. Our memories make us who we are, particularly our memories of those we love.

(And for some reason, anime/manga is fascinated with the idea of people disappearing from existence and all memory of them vanishing as well. That kills me. What a terribly sad fate. It might not be a great movie, but Bleach: Memories of Nobody is a textbook case of that.)

Edited by tuatara, 12 December 2011 - 10:42 AM.

[ValorantX]

Memory loss is actually a pretty good theme in my opinion though, because it's something that can evoke feelings that are compelling and tragic, being forgotten by those who you've shared significant experiences with. But it is overused and not executed well for the reasons I said above.....

Like in the manga Chibi Vampire:

Spoiler

One of the main character loses her memories of her vampire family and believes to have never had a family from the start but lives on to have a happy life with the one she loves. It was a pretty emotional ending, having a family who cares so much about her and continues to look over her even though they remain completely forgotten. But there is a big plot hole in the story because the reason she fell in the love with the guy she's with was the result of him keeping her secret about being part of a vampire family which led them to be very close. The whole memory loss just destroys the significance of that.

I'm not really sure about your beef with that particular Bleach movie though.

Edited by Saphsin, 12 December 2011 - 08:42 PM.

[Irecinius]

And here I was really halfhearthly reading the new chapters without any hope of any good comebacks, the story seemed to be driving straight into a harem shonen panties store.
I like the twist there..

But I was thinking that maybe the 'price' or sacrifice, is the love they shared, accumuled DURING his imprisionment.

Since saki had no love for him BEFORE he getting trapped, we get that reaction.
Now Satomi, loved him (se may be oblivious to it) before he getting locked, so even if he develop more to a culminating acceptance, if he uses that won't go back to 0 but to somewhat still loved.

Tho he should keep in mind is that even if all the "love" that person felt for him is gone, doesn't mean she won't love you again!! GTFO and work your way up again, hell will probablly be easier since he will know alot more about that person.