In regard of Copy-RIGHT, let's see...
"Derivative works" and stuff, actually, Batoto is hosted in the Netherlands, EU. Take note of this, it's very important.
In the EU, (I dunno how USA is) there's a "fair use" clause to the copyright system. Under "Fair Use" falls a category named "Parody" and this is what DJ's fall under. Another's own interpretation of an original work. Besides that, DJ's are accepted and sold at regular Anime/Manga cons. <props to Socrates for also pointing this out>
Copyright infringement is a law that was placed to make sure that: YOU WOULD NOT COPY AN ORIGINAL WORK AND SELL IT AS YOUR OWN.
that is, e.g.
When I copy a CD, Manga, Software, whatever, copy it, put my name on it, and sell it. That's the two parts:
1. My name on something I did not make, claiming it is my own.
2. The original work redistributed FOR PROFIT.
Most DJ's (as far as my understanding goes) do neither of this, in the moderate intrepetation of copyright, they are perfectly fine. A simple "credits"-like page should be enough to legalize most DJ's.
If there is profit involved, then they should legally enter into contract with the original mangaka, and pay them a percentage, or they should be fined.
This is more or less like like how the music industry generally allows reintrepetation and remixes, provided that you do not use the complete original work itself.
Moreover, one could argue that each and every translation/scanlation is a re-intrepetation (though that might be stretching it). That is, until someone gets a license, an official claim on a translation in a specific language.
Lastly, please remember some things about copyright:
1. It is an old law, from before the internet was a thing, it was mainly made to cover re-selling originals (or selling/giving copies of that away). Under no circumstance was it meant to stop any attempt at creativity.
2. The copyright law is not one-sided, it grants several rights, like self-owned backup copies, and the right to parody.
3. Even when translating/DJ'ing or even translating a DJ is (debatable, corner cased) infringing this copyright, and the owner IS actually experiencing trouble, then they have the right to contact the people, and talk it out. Or inform the authorities and have them talking it out.
Now, I know that in good ol' 'murica thing are more complex than this, but until recently, the Netherlands was actually so lenient (since CopyRIGHT law is actually pretty lenient in the way it can be explained, in spite of the fact companies nowadays seem to think it's basically a thing to beat people to death with) that you could download any movie or sound without any trouble. That last part changed under pressure from bigger countries though.
This is on topic of MAKING DJ's
Now then. Batoto DOES SEEM to actually not upload licensed stuff. Take Fairy Tail, it's not uploaded anymore because a translation company has a license for that. Just so, Automata is not updated anymore, because it was licensed (or requested by the author, I can't fully remember). So yeah, when someone goed to batoto and asks this, then yeah it will be solved.
Yes, there are people going around translating anything they can. Even outside the Manga industry, the self-made and self-hosted webcomics I know of usually have atleast a translation in spanish, and you know what? They are GRATEFUL. Also, however many friends you have, you cannot claim that ALL DJka's want to keep low profile. Or that MOST have a credit page saying to not redistrubute outside Japan. First, numbers, then assumptions, not the other way 'round. Indeed, I doubt they ALL do. Looking at all the other creative businesses, people want to SHOW their PROUD, EFFORTFUL work. So win-win when someone translates your work in that case!
Even if they do have these wishes on their page, let's say they ALL do. How, then, can you level that with your claim that they are illegal? If something is illegal, then all rights on it are forfeit. You have to choose here.
Either we recognize DJ's as legit creations within fair use (As I do). Then we can discuss about the DJka's wishes and rules.
Or we assume that the DJ itself is counterfeit/illegal, in which case all of the DJka's wishes are null and void.
This is to counter your reasoning.
The funny thing is, in the SECOND case, there is no claim, and anyone can freely scanlate, as much as the DJka could create the DJ. because the state of illegalty stays the same, and the DJka has no claim whatsoever.
In the FIRST case, we can justify scanlating any work WITHOUT wishes, by the same way we justify scanlating originals. IF they however DO have wishes, they have al lthe right to speak up for themselves. Oh, but wait, they don't speak english? Well, guess what, a translator speaks, or atleast reads japanese, so that's not an issue!
In ALL of these cases the responsibility lies with the scanlator group, and not Batoto. If Batoto is notified that something is not wanted up, then they WILL take it down, or notify involved people. (that is what my experience shows me, like with Automata and Fairy Tail).
Now you claim:
"There's a difference between original works and fan works"
There's not, as I have proven in above text, the ONLY way you can say anything about DJ's specifically, is if you recognize them as legit creations. And thus, they ARE the same as original works: Legit creations.
But that's not all, some DJ's are done by the original mangaka's (I remember discussing that earlier this week, I think it was with our Ranting Swede / Horn). This fact further confuses the claim that there are two distinctly separate objects, while in reality there is but a vague distinction at most. DJ's are not allowed to make money unles a part goes, under agreement, to the original's creator. But that does not make it less of an original creation. (Taking in account all I said before).
So, to conclude in short:
1. DJ's cannot be viewed as illegal. That would get rid of the whole discussion as plain "both DJ's and all translations of them are counterfeit".
2. Thus follows that you have to assume they are legit creations under fair use, if you want to discuss this.
3. When you assume this, then in one part, there is no problem (when the DJka has NO wishes).
4. When the DJka has wishes, it is certainly not impossible to contact people. And on top of that, Batoto is not responsible.
5. As said before, DJ's are not all that different from originals.
Now, I believe I repeated a lot of people, and I probably even repeated myself.
Also, before you go assuming stuff, I have ransacked over copyright from more angles than most of you have, in several hobbyist AND work-related environments. I would really appreciate if people would try to understand what a LAW is trying to ACCOMPLISH rather than what COMPANIES are trying to MAKE IT SAY. but I already pointed that out at the start of my post.
Alas, hope everyone had fun reading. Please, if I missed some points, or only grasped half facts, by all means tell me~
Greetz,
Nevy
Edited by nevernown, 12 July 2014 - 04:51 PM.