78 replies to this topic

[CaptainVinegar]

I understand the desire to spam skill books and get as many skills as possible, but (unless they are passive stat boosts or something exotic like healing or teleportation or other magic) level 1 skills are useless, being able to fix a car isn't going to help Jee-Han now, neither would being able to speak Russian. Getting the ability to create fire, lighting etc. is cool but these would all be skills that would be underleveled to have much combat utility.
I think the most vital thing for survival are allies . Jee-Han is lucky in that the Chubumoon clan are very strong allies, I would reach out to the Yun clan as well and solidify connections there. I would try to find more about summoning so I could have some low level bodyguards, or just hire low level guys with money obtained from selling potions until I was strong enough to protect myself better.
ID create is probably his most useful skill (aside from gamers mind, body and inventory) as it is the only way for him to quickly level himself by creating higher tiered enemies. The amount of money and items that can be farmed from this is impressive. High tiered skill books are a possibility from this and would hope I got some exotic things like etheral or invisibility from a ghost boss. I would barter healing potions for better equipment on the auction site. Can't be walking around without some sort of armour.
After finding out that 50 was the sweet spot for passive buffs to be created I would make getting VIT and DEX 50 the highest priority.

[Purple Library Guy]

Allies are great and he should cultivate them.  But he shouldn't count on having their help in a fight.  If the bogeymen come after him, they'll trap him in an ID and cream him all by himself.  I would definitely be working on solo survivability.

[Maestro]

Mmmm Definitely the same types of experimentation that most of you would go with..
I think I would try to do more with his mana rope that he made, like once it wraps around an enemy, he can make it pierce through them from all sides.

With his degree of mana control, he could probably make some sort of doppelganger too, by making a human shaped mass of mana. This would make mobility less important in PvE, since it could tank for him. 

 

Most of his abilities could probably be altered to have multiple effects, I'd focus on creating abilities like that- like making mana arrow explode once it's within an enemy instead of passing through (I guess it kind of looks like it  does that somewhat already)

Edited by Maestro, 01 April 2014 - 06:55 PM.

[Garethore]

I would go search through shounen manga for attack skill ideas  Id also try to manipulate my mana to levitate and eventually fly. Walking on water would be fun too.. explore the systems menu for other useful options. try paging a GM. check for other chat channels ( global, team, PM...). concider joining an organization/guild. train crafting skills. definitely learn some stealth skills (im the rogue/sniper type more than tank or healer) and find some protective armor for crying out loud! check out all those equip slots needing useful gear!

[Rien]

a lot of ToG stuff could be replicated with mana. Jee-han's spinning mana arrow fighting style closely resembles a Wave Controller anyway.

[Monochromatic]

Maybe speed, so I can get me some Teleportation or flash step that would be cool right?

[whomightub3]

I wouldn't throw out the bookstore idea just yet. There are hundreds of thousands of books on self improvement, studying, memorization, speed-reading, martial arts, running, parkour or free-running. There is literally 18,851 books on martial arts and 32,196 books on running on amazon. The very first book, the number 1, is called "Running with the mind of meditation". What? With an entire bookstore at his disposal, you think he should go to the car repair section? He's coming to the limit of what he can beg from his friend. Two places he can branch out to for immediate self improvement is the bookstore and Abyss Auction. Two other places he can attempt to beg for scraps from the big boy table is his freaking mother and the yunhonmoon clan.

[CaptainVinegar]

I wouldn't throw out the bookstore idea just yet. There are hundreds of thousands of books on self improvement, studying, memorization, speed-reading, martial arts, running, parkour or free-running. There is literally 18,851 books on martial arts and 32,196 books on running on amazon. The very first book, the number 1, is called "Running with the mind of meditation". What? With an entire bookstore at his disposal, you think he should go to the car repair section? He's coming to the limit of what he can beg from his friend. Two places he can branch out to for immediate self improvement is the bookstore and Abyss Auction. Two other places he can attempt to beg for scraps from the big boy table is his freaking mother and the yunhonmoon clan.

1)No martial arts book you can get on amazon is going to be significant to Jee-Han, he has Ki based martial arts techniques, which no non abyss book has.
2)Even if you learnt everything from several martial arts  books your combat experience and stats wouldn't be there, and your BJJ, karate, muay thai skills would all be level 1- lower than black belt leve, which itself is lower than UFC fighter level which is where Jee-Han is pretty much at in terms of combat effectiveness.
3)With the way his levelling system works it's better to level up one martial arts skill (Chubumoon, has better crossover with his other skills) than to try to be a jack of all trades.

4) Time is his biggest limitation, there is no point in getting level 1 non ki skills, exotic skill books are the only skills worth farming, unless you are honestly saying anything you can read in a library is going to surpass teleportation, invisibility or telepathy style skill books it's a waste of several hours he should be spending leveling his ID create so he can get to higher level dungeons.

[whomightub3]

I disagree. Your statements have no basis. Says who, your mother? The title is What would you actually do in Jee-han's situation. If you are going to complain, stay on topic. My position is to use books for a decently large base of simple skills for both combat and utilitarian use, passives and actives. Then train and grind. You know, like Batman did in the 90's cartoon. I can't figure out your position through the cloud of baseless whining. Batman is the base of my position. "What would you actually do in Jee-Han's situation?" Train to be Batman to survive, become Superman to win forever.

[Agonal]

1)No martial arts book you can get on amazon is going to be significant to Jee-Han, he has Ki based martial arts techniques, which no non abyss book has.
2)Even if you learnt everything from several martial arts books your combat experience and stats wouldn't be there, and your BJJ, karate, muay thai skills would all be level 1- lower than black belt leve, which itself is lower than UFC fighter level which is where Jee-Han is pretty much at in terms of combat effectiveness.
3)With the way his levelling system works it's better to level up one martial arts skill (Chubumoon, has better crossover with his other skills) than to try to be a jack of all trades.
4) Time is his biggest limitation, there is no point in getting level 1 non ki skills, exotic skill books are the only skills worth farming, unless you are honestly saying anything you can read in a library is going to surpass teleportation, invisibility or telepathy style skill books it's a waste of several hours he should be spending leveling his ID create so he can get to higher level dungeons.

Spoiler

1) This is a ridiculous statement based purely on your ignorance. All martial arts have a Ki theory. Ki literally means breath, and as such breathing is not only essential for life but also important in martial arts. While "ki" is more common in eastern martial arts philosophies, it is present nonetheless even in boxing - in through nose, jaw clenched, tongue on roof of mouth, hissing exhalation through teeth when you punch. Furthermore, different martial arts have philosophies on fighting, like the spatial aspect of combat (if you don't get it, go read a book). "Normal books" hold just as much potential as your "abyss books".
2 & 3) And what is a black belt, exactly, but a white belt that never quit? Everyone starts somewhere, and more styles simply add to your own repertoire, regardless of level. Besides that, ufc, or MIXED MARTIAL ARTS, is literally a jack-of-all-trades style of combat. Hence the name. So why is it so hard for you to believe that other "mundane" skills don't hold important applications for Jihan?
4) Is this (time) not true of us all? A solid foundation is essential for all things. Learning new skills adds to that foundation, opens up new applications to old skills, in addition to their own unique applications. IE - Elemental skills to enhance mana arrow, enhancement of Chunbumoon breathing technique with applications learn from another martial art, or appearance of a HUD/mini-map from a book on awareness and perception.
But if that isn't enough, here are a few other examples of books with important applications. (Speculative, but very real)

• A Physics book may let jihan learn all those skills you've mentioned, and more besides.
• Psychology or neuroscience could unlock new and better ways of thinking, perceiving, and even give jihan insight into the minds of those around him, and what drives them to behave the way they do.
• Anatomy and physiology book might give him an "enhanced critical strike" or "instant-kill" skill by his understanding of human physiological weakness.

/rant

Position: Learning is akin to enlightenment, and is essential in self-improvement. Read a book and better yourself.

Edited by Agonal, 02 April 2014 - 03:26 PM.

[alcaray]

See if there's a save/restore feature (the most powerful "skill" for any rpg character).  Look into spending a bit of his wealth on stat-bonus accessories (or research how to craft them).  Spend a bit of points on the stats that he never raises, just so he can see what they affect for sure - one of them may be critical.

[Elyandarin]

Learn a "longevity" skill and then spend as much time as possible in that marvelous 10-for-the-price-of-1 training zone. Anything that can be done in one room - such as sleeping or homework - should be done there. 

[CaptainVinegar]

I disagree. Your statements have no basis. Says who, your mother? The title is What would you actually do in Jee-han's situation. If you are going to complain, stay on topic. My position is to use books for a decently large base of simple skills for both combat and utilitarian use, passives and actives. Then train and grind. You know, like Batman did in the 90's cartoon. I can't figure out your position through the cloud of baseless whining. Batman is the base of my position. "What would you actually do in Jee-Han's situation?" Train to be Batman to survive, become Superman to win forever.

My statements have basis in the manga, seeing that a technique he developed himself due to his 50 int and familiarity with mana is superior to any martial art technique in existence in the real world. Batman is only effective for plot reasons, the 127 martial arts thing is largely a gimmick, as is the concept of "Peak human" being superior to every gold medal olympic athlete in their respective physical attributes.

 

Spoiler

1) This is a ridiculous statement based purely on your ignorance. All martial arts have a Ki theory. Ki literally means breath, and as such breathing is not only essential for life but also important in martial arts. While "ki" is more common in eastern martial arts philosophies, it is present nonetheless even in boxing - in through nose, jaw clenched, tongue on roof of mouth, hissing exhalation through teeth when you punch. Furthermore, different martial arts have philosophies on fighting, like the spatial aspect of combat (if you don't get it, go read a book). "Normal books" hold just as much potential as your "abyss books".
2 & 3) And what is a black belt, exactly, but a white belt that never quit? Everyone starts somewhere, and more styles simply add to your own repertoire, regardless of level. Besides that, ufc, or MIXED MARTIAL ARTS, is literally a jack-of-all-trades style of combat. Hence the name. So why is it so hard for you to believe that other "mundane" skills don't hold important applications for Jihan?
4) Is this (time) not true of us all? A solid foundation is essential for all things. Learning new skills adds to that foundation, opens up new applications to old skills, in addition to their own unique applications. IE - Elemental skills to enhance mana arrow, enhancement of Chunbumoon breathing technique with applications learn from another martial art, or appearance of a HUD/mini-map from a book on awareness and perception.
But if that isn't enough, here are a few other examples of books with important applications. (Speculative, but very real)

• A Physics book may let jihan learn all those skills you've mentioned, and more besides.
• Psychology or neuroscience could unlock new and better ways of thinking, perceiving, and even give jihan insight into the minds of those around him, and what drives them to behave the way they do.
• Anatomy and physiology book might give him an "enhanced critical strike" or "instant-kill" skill by his understanding of human physiological weakness.

/rant

Position: Learning is akin to enlightenment, and is essential in self-improvement. Read a book and better yourself.

 

You can have a go at me for being a skeptic, but don't try to claim that I am ignorant lol.
1)There is a clear difference between breath control and abdominal bracing and mana energy allowing you to punch through concrete. A lot of martial arts books have very similar. There are no chi blasts,kiai, or iron shirts irl, and The Gamer universe runs from either the "real world" or the "abyss", he isn't going to find it easy at all to get exotic skill books outside of the abyss or his ID create.

2&3)The point isn't that it wouldn't be positive, just that in terms of limited resources aka time it is not a worthwhile investment. The hour spent going to the library would literally be better served grinding his ID create, main offensive and defensive skill and levelling up. I'm sure the Chunbumoon style is a practical martial art style with every style of technique incorporated in it, the difference between punching styles, kicking styles, joint locks and throws is largely trivial and down to personal preferences of the people that originally founded these martial arts, it is the skill of the user, not the skill that matters. Let me reiterate, the style Jee-Han is a combat martial art, designed to be largely complete already, the purpose of adding other martial arts is dubious when looking at this way. He'd be better leveling the Chunbumoon to level 4 than levelling BJJ, Karate and Muay Thai to 3 each.
4)His life is in direct and very imminent danger, he needs to prioritise this training time very carefully, as every hour spent doing something suboptimal is time he should have spent grinding ID create and levelling up.
The carotid artery and a few other points are common knowledge, with practical use of observe he can find any weak spots of human and non human enemies, realistically though he would be better off blowing inch diameter holes in people with his arrows...
His mana control is limited to shaping at the moment, maybe if he had 100 int he could better use his mana with a new mana ability unlocked, until then reading about vague scientific concepts would not help him, having level 1 physics knowledge wouldn't be useful, except at doing tests.
Aside from perhaps the fire arrows there is no way for him to reasonably (from what we've seen with the limitations of his mana control) develop teleportation from reading about quantum physics(considering that the teleportation seems to be more of an esoteric magical skill and also because the mechanism for teleportation in physics has not been properly outlined irl).
Getting level 1 psychology skills wouldn't help him any more than observe, even at a high level it is a MUNDANE skill -like DISHWASHING- and isn't magical irl, there are very real limitations.

[Knobber]

 

Getting level 1 psychology skills wouldn't help him any more than observe, even at a high level it is a MUNDANE skill -like DISHWASHING- and isn't magical irl, there are very real limitations.

 

I would agree with you if that is really what he said.  But, no.  He said "physiological".  That means the physical human body.  I could see him pick up a book about pressure points on the body, or other weaknesses that he could exploit.  With that knowledge, you would be able to tap your opponent in a few places on their body and they would be unable to move.  That might actually come in handy.

 

I suppose he could order books from the abyss auction.  they might be really expensive though.

[CaptainVinegar]

I would agree with you if that is really what he said.  But, no.  He said "physiological".  That means the physical human body.  I could see him pick up a book about pressure points on the body, or other weaknesses that he could exploit.  With that knowledge, you would be able to tap your opponent in a few places on their body and they would be unable to move.  That might actually come in handy.

 

I suppose he could order books from the abyss auction.  they might be really expensive though.

"Psychology or neuroscience could unlock new and better ways of thinking, perceiving, and even give jihan insight into the minds of those around him, and what drives them to behave the way they do."
Direct quote. He said both. But yes observe would, if sufficiently levelled give the weak points of any enemy so is a lot more useful than a text book which will tell you the few basic weaknesses of *human* physiology, i.e. the major arteries, nerves and organs, which are common knowledge to most people anyway.

Also the pressure point stuff doesn't work that way in real life, in any case if you can blow several inch diameter holes in people with your magical powers then the need for pressure point stuff is very low. If there *are* fictional pressure point moves then I'm betting the Chunbumoon- a complete fighting style- has plenty of these, it is the skill of the user and the power of the skills not the amount of skills which matter.
From a misunderstanding of how martial arts work in the real world people are acting as if the Chunbumoon style has massive holes that need to be filled by cross training.
It's not a sport martial art it is a combat ready martial art, it has joint locks, punching, kicking, guarding and I'm sure "pressure points".

[whomightub3]

CaptainVinegar, The title is

What would you actually do in Jee-Han's situation?

so piss off. Go elsewhere with your bitching. Vamoose, skedaddle, begone!

I don't care what about the point in your arguments. I said I would train like Batman did. Take your opinion of what I would actually do in Jee-Han's situation and shove it up your rear!

You know what, fuck this, I'm out. Peace.

[Agonal]

Spoiler

My statements have basis in the manga, seeing that a technique he developed himself due to his 50 int and familiarity with mana is superior to any martial art technique in existence in the real world. Batman is only effective for plot reasons, the 127 martial arts thing is largely a gimmick, as is the concept of "Peak human" being superior to every gold medal olympic athlete in their respective physical attributes.


You can have a go at me for being a skeptic, but don't try to claim that I am ignorant lol.
1)There is a clear difference between breath control and abdominal bracing and mana energy allowing you to punch through concrete. A lot of martial arts books have very similar. There are no chi blasts,kiai, or iron shirts irl, and The Gamer universe runs from either the "real world" or the "abyss", he isn't going to find it easy at all to get exotic skill books outside of the abyss or his ID create.
2&3)The point isn't that it wouldn't be positive, just that in terms of limited resources aka time it is not a worthwhile investment. The hour spent going to the library would literally be better served grinding his ID create, main offensive and defensive skill and levelling up. I'm sure the Chunbumoon style is a practical martial art style with every style of technique incorporated in it, the difference between punching styles, kicking styles, joint locks and throws is largely trivial and down to personal preferences of the people that originally founded these martial arts, it is the skill of the user, not the skill that matters. Let me reiterate, the style Jee-Han is a combat martial art, designed to be largely complete already, the purpose of adding other martial arts is dubious when looking at this way. He'd be better leveling the Chunbumoon to level 4 than levelling BJJ, Karate and Muay Thai to 3 each.
4)His life is in direct and very imminent danger, he needs to prioritise this training time very carefully, as every hour spent doing something suboptimal is time he should have spent grinding ID create and levelling up.
The carotid artery and a few other points are common knowledge, with practical use of observe he can find any weak spots of human and non human enemies, realistically though he would be better off blowing inch diameter holes in people with his arrows...
His mana control is limited to shaping at the moment, maybe if he had 100 int he could better use his mana with a new mana ability unlocked, until then reading about vague scientific concepts would not help him, having level 1 physics knowledge wouldn't be useful, except at doing tests.
Aside from perhaps the fire arrows there is no way for him to reasonably (from what we've seen with the limitations of his mana control) develop teleportation from reading about quantum physics(considering that the teleportation seems to be more of an esoteric magical skill and also because the mechanism for teleportation in physics has not been properly outlined irl).
Getting level 1 psychology skills wouldn't help him any more than observe, even at a high level it is a MUNDANE skill -like DISHWASHING- and isn't magical irl, there are very real limitations.

"Psychology or neuroscience could unlock new and better ways of thinking, perceiving, and even give jihan insight into the minds of those around him, and what drives them to behave the way they do."
Direct quote. He said both. But yes observe would, if sufficiently levelled give the weak points of any enemy so is a lot more useful than a text book which will tell you the few basic weaknesses of *human* physiology, i.e. the major arteries, nerves and organs, which are common knowledge to most people anyway.
Also the pressure point stuff doesn't work that way in real life, in any case if you can blow several inch diameter holes in people with your magical powers then the need for pressure point stuff is very low. If there *are* fictional pressure point moves then I'm betting the Chunbumoon- a complete fighting style- has plenty of these, it is the skill of the user and the power of the skills not the amount of skills which matter.
From a misunderstanding of how martial arts work in the real world people are acting as if the Chunbumoon style has massive holes that need to be filled by cross training.
It's not a sport martial art it is a combat ready martial art, it has joint locks, punching, kicking, guarding and I'm sure "pressure points".

You have some valid points that I somewhat agree with, but what is ignorant are some of your arguments supporting them. FOr the reasons I've already specified, as well as others. You've also made claims without basis.

We've no reason to suppose that Chunbumoon is an "all-encompassing" technique of martial arts. So far, we've only seen striking. This is emphasize by the fact that they formally teach only striking. Therefor, learning "mundane" techniques of ground game, locks, wrestling, and etc are feasible, do have useful applications, both mundane and abyssmal. Training these other techniques individually is a ridiculous concept; rather a fusion of these techniques into a single form with chunbu spirit tech is what and how I was attempting to convey their usefulness.

Time was not, and has not, always been an important factor for Jihan. If Jihan had layed low to begin with, he'd likely have existed "below the radar", so to speak, and thus would still not be in harms way/had time to casually peruse a library. Your statement about prioritizing his training is very much valid, now that he has heard of threats against his self, but your argument that attaining knowledge of the world and the human condition, via physics, phsychology, physiology, anatomy, and etc is horribly, horribly ignorant.

• Understanding how the world normally functions would better allow him to understand what he can manipulate, and how to go about manipulating. Meaning this would open up options for offensive and defensive applications, as well as teleportation. (Velocity = distance/time. Illusion barrier where time = 0, distance covered over 0 time = instant movement = teleportation).
• You've also made the supposition that his Gamer abilities cannot be upgraded from knowledge. Who is to say that learning mundane skills or fields of study would not unlock an "add-on" for his observe, create a HUD, minimap, targetting/lock-on feature, "relationship meter" or etc? Even if they seem "unimportant" by your standards, they could well prove useful - or do you not think knowing who your enemies are, where they are, or when people lie to you to be useful?
• "Your body has organs, and they do shit," is a common concept. However, enhanced knowledge of human anatomy and physiology goes beyond what you've proposed. It's not just about identifying existing weaknesses, but also creating weaknesses when there are yet to be. This is done by exploiting physiology: How your makeup naturally works. Besides that, there are places you can strike that cause paralysis, contrary to your utterly invalid and incorrect supposition that "nerve strikes don't work that way IRL." (Unless you were thinking some five-point-palm-exploding-heart-technique type stuff. And then i concur completely). Your "just blow holes in people" is indeed valid, and probably best practice, but given the nature of the abyss, that may not always be feasible; thus targetted, focus attacks on specific anatomy may be the difference between victory, and defeat. Living, and dying. But you're a difficult man to convince, so let's have a practical scenario:
  
  You've recently acquired pyromancy, and while you're not fully confident in manipulating it, are using it to fight an adversary. They're very skilled, and you're currently on losing. Despite his receiving profound damage from your flame attacks, he just keeps coming at you. You decide to flee, and you succeed in escaping. You later discover that your adversary died of his wounds. He'd taken a shot to and had burns his face, had 2nd degree burns covering his entire right leg, and a 3rd degree burn to his right entire right arm. Which of these was fatal?
  
  If you answered "But Agonal, all of those can cause death", then you're absolutely correct. 1) Burns to the face can mean burns to the airway. Burns = swelling, and swollen airway = no airway = suffocation = short term cause of death. 2)Cellular damage/destruction, as caused by burns, results in potassium (K+) being released in that process of cellular destruction. The heart is sensitive to this cation, and elevated levels can lead to fatal heart rhythms = intermediate cause of death. 3)Likewise, 3rd degree burns has profound dead tissue, can result in infection, sepsis, and death. This is a long-term cause of death.
  
  But as you already knew all of that with your "common knowledge", any other applications I were to mention would no doubt be written off as inconsequential.

Otherwise, with the advent of the threat of unknown origin against Jihan, focusing on quickly gaining strength (abstract, not the stat) isn't a wrong way to go; especially since he can effectively grind at >=10x normal speed; level 27 mob with 1/10 time illusion barrier. I would put dollars to donuts that i could catch up to or surpass Sun-il by the end of the night/weekend...depending on how much of that time i was boning sae young. Because that would definitely be happening.

Edited by Agonal, 04 April 2014 - 07:39 AM.

[cardz1992]

1. i would go to a bookstore and look at all manga to find new ideas for skills but i might get lucky and one of the manga might be a skill book.

2. i would do all my chores and see if they turn to skill if they do i would level them up so i can get them done faster.

3. i would put all the stuff in my room in to plastic buckets with labels and put them in my inventory so my room would be clean and i would have my stuff when i need it.

4. i would grind all my skills to at least level 5-10.

5. i would look up basic comands for games and try saying them and see if they do anything.

6. i would put most my stat points on int, luck,wis and dex with a few on str. i would keep them near equal.

7. i would level up ID create just by creating and escaping over and over to see what new dungeons i can create.

8. i would try making a lot of different running skills and hope to create a escape skill.

9. i would go to a deserted area like in the countryside and train my level and skills. i would tell my mom i'm going camping. Or just do what he is doing at his friends house.

[CaptainVinegar]

Spoiler

You have some valid points that I somewhat agree with, but what is ignorant are some of your arguments supporting them. FOr the reasons I've already specified, as well as others. You've also made claims without basis.

We've no reason to suppose that Chunbumoon is an "all-encompassing" technique of martial arts. So far, we've only seen striking. This is emphasize by the fact that they formally teach only striking. Therefor, learning "mundane" techniques of ground game, locks, wrestling, and etc are feasible, do have useful applications, both mundane and abyssmal. Training these other techniques individually is a ridiculous concept; rather a fusion of these techniques into a single form with chunbu spirit tech is what and how I was attempting to convey their usefulness.

Time was not, and has not, always been an important factor for Jihan. If Jihan had layed low to begin with, he'd likely have existed "below the radar", so to speak, and thus would still not be in harms way/had time to casually peruse a library. Your statement about prioritizing his training is very much valid, now that he has heard of threats against his self, but your argument that attaining knowledge of the world and the human condition, via physics, phsychology, physiology, anatomy, and etc is horribly, horribly ignorant.

• Understanding how the world normally functions would better allow him to understand what he can manipulate, and how to go about manipulating. Meaning this would open up options for offensive and defensive applications, as well as teleportation. (Velocity = distance/time. Illusion barrier where time = 0, distance covered over 0 time = instant movement = teleportation).
• You've also made the supposition that his Gamer abilities cannot be upgraded from knowledge. Who is to say that learning mundane skills or fields of study would not unlock an "add-on" for his observe, create a HUD, minimap, targetting/lock-on feature, "relationship meter" or etc? Even if they seem "unimportant" by your standards, they could well prove useful - or do you not think knowing who your enemies are, where they are, or when people lie to you to be useful?
• "Your body has organs, and they do shit," is a common concept. However, enhanced knowledge of human anatomy and physiology goes beyond what you've proposed. It's not just about identifying existing weaknesses, but also creating weaknesses when there are yet to be. This is done by exploiting physiology: How your makeup naturally works. Besides that, there are places you can strike that cause paralysis, contrary to your utterly invalid and incorrect supposition that "nerve strikes don't work that way IRL." (Unless you were thinking some five-point-palm-exploding-heart-technique type stuff. And then i concur completely). Your "just blow holes in people" is indeed valid, and probably best practice, but given the nature of the abyss, that may not always be feasible; thus targetted, focus attacks on specific anatomy may be the difference between victory, and defeat. Living, and dying. But you're a difficult man to convince, so let's have a practical scenario:
  
  You've recently acquired pyromancy, and while you're not fully confident in manipulating it, are using it to fight an adversary. They're very skilled, and you're currently on losing. Despite his receiving profound damage from your flame attacks, he just keeps coming at you. You decide to flee, and you succeed in escaping. You later discover that your adversary died of his wounds. He'd taken a shot to and had burns his face, had 2nd degree burns covering his entire right leg, and a 3rd degree burn to his right entire right arm. Which of these was fatal?
  
  If you answered "But Agonal, all of those can cause death", then you're absolutely correct. 1) Burns to the face can mean burns to the airway. Burns = swelling, and swollen airway = no airway = suffocation = short term cause of death. 2)Cellular damage/destruction, as caused by burns, results in potassium (K+) being released in that process of cellular destruction. The heart is sensitive to this cation, and elevated levels can lead to fatal heart rhythms = intermediate cause of death. 3)Likewise, 3rd degree burns has profound dead tissue, can result in infection, sepsis, and death. This is a long-term cause of death.
  
  But as you already knew all of that with your "common knowledge", any other applications I were to mention would no doubt be written off as inconsequential.

Otherwise, with the advent of the threat of unknown origin against Jihan, focusing on quickly gaining strength (abstract, not the stat) isn't a wrong way to go; especially since he can effectively grind at >=10x normal speed; level 27 mob with 1/10 time illusion barrier. I would put dollars to donuts that i could catch up to or surpass Sun-il by the end of the night/weekend...depending on how much of that time i was boning sae young. Because that would definitely be happening.

 

1)It is a martial art designed for practical use, the idea that it has any major holes that need to be filled is an idea born out of MMA culture, we've seen striking and we've seen Jee-Han being restrained by Sun-Il. Ground game is worthless in real life when you get slammed against concrete, striking and "pressure points" go hand in hand. Wrestling technique is largely useless if someone is the equivalent of 20 weight categories above you  in terms of strength and also a skilled fighter, bear in mind it would be level 1 wrestling techniques vs a trained martial artist with 50 strength.
2)Jee-Han was confronted by death in one of the first chapters by an unknown enemy, time has ALWAYS been a factor, and he has ALWAYS needed to get stronger to survive. Furthermore Jee-Han has NO idea what is going on in his world, what other people's information gathering techniques are, he had no idea about the mana factory or the abyss auction and wouldn't have found out if he wasn't in contact with Chunbumoon, chances are without direct countermeasures to scrying (which he would have had no knowledge on) he would have been easily picked up by mana factory scouts, whether he *tried* to lay low- which would probably involve not using illusion barriers and severely stunt his levelling.
3)I suppose we should make the very big distinction between if we had Jee-han's ability in our world or their world, considering the title of this thread is Jee-Han's situation I am assuming the later, this isn't simply an issue of metagaming but looking at how things work in their universe and how the laws of physics and physiology seem to be very much averted by the presence of non human world factors. Getting level 1 "physics skill" wouldn't do anything significant to improve your understanding of the universe, considering fore front experts with the equivalent of probably level 15 "physics skill" still cannot come up with viable methods for teleportation using current technology and understanding.You are conflating Illusion Barriers and ki powers with physical laws, when it is implied from statements made by characters there are limitations to the illusion barriers. Your proposed system of teleportation through time controlled ID create ignores that other people can go into your barriers, making it pointless for combat, and the fact that you would need to walk said distance to teleport rendering it pointless for "convinience usage" and the fact that there are limitations on the size and time dilation effects of the barriers meaning it may very well not be instantaneous.
4)From what we've seen there is little crossover between his skills and observe does NOT work off his knowledge but rather a magical method, he has no way of knowing what things like Chubumoons heir or Demon's Invasion are, but they show up completely independent of his knowledge. Your knowledge doesn't upgrade a game you are playing, you are stuck with the HUD available from the gamemaker (Gaia) unless you mod your game. He already has relationship stats, the author has just forgot this from the quest style stuff at the begining, instead focusing on aspects of other games to fit the narrative he wants to write, maybe he'll reintroduce it when Observe levels up more.
5)In their world ki control and the fact that everyone recovers quickly- though not as fast as Jee-Han (Sun-Il claiming he would recover in less than a month from near death means that physiological injuries do NOT work the same in the Manwha in real life, in real life if you break a bone or snap a tendon chances are it will heal but will never be truly 100% again.

And yes I knew points 1 and 3, which I view as common knowledge, I had some vague idea that people could go into shock from burns as well which I'm guessing is the misinformed laymans idea of 2 as well.The body is a lot more fragile in real life than it is in this Manwha, but in the universe with Ki and rapid healing these things are minor and would not put down a superior enemy.
I agree that correct targeting is a good idea, but as gramps said knowing things (i.e. physiological weaknesses) and knowing when to use that knowledge are two different things, and he requires battle experience more than level 1 physiology knowledge, he knows that things like knees are weak points for big slow moving targets, I'm sure his common knowledge affords him the idea of weak points to attack.

In all honesty aside from a few extremities of the body the complete destruction of any part of the body will kill someone or severely cripple them, whether directly through loss of function (e.g. organ destruction, shock or through blood loss), it really isn't difficult or complex. If someone can feasibly shield their spinal column from being completely destroyed by 3 super fast mana arrows that can pierce tree trunks with inch hole diameters I don't see how they can't similarly shield their spinal column from a pressure point strike.

 

[Agonal]

Cpt. V:

Spoiler

1)It is a martial art designed for practical use, the idea that it has any major holes that need to be filled is an idea born out of MMA culture, we've seen striking and we've seen Jee-Han being restrained by Sun-Il. Ground game is worthless in real life when you get slammed against concrete, striking and "pressure points" go hand in hand. Wrestling technique is largely useless if someone is the equivalent of 20 weight categories above you  in terms of strength and also a skilled fighter, bear in mind it would be level 1 wrestling techniques vs a trained martial artist with 50 strength.
2)Jee-Han was confronted by death in one of the first chapters by an unknown enemy, time has ALWAYS been a factor, and he has ALWAYS needed to get stronger to survive. Furthermore Jee-Han has NO idea what is going on in his world, what other people's information gathering techniques are, he had no idea about the mana factory or the abyss auction and wouldn't have found out if he wasn't in contact with Chunbumoon, chances are without direct countermeasures to scrying (which he would have had no knowledge on) he would have been easily picked up by mana factory scouts, whether he *tried* to lay low- which would probably involve not using illusion barriers and severely stunt his levelling.
3)I suppose we should make the very big distinction between if we had Jee-han's ability in our world or their world, considering the title of this thread is Jee-Han's situation I am assuming the later, this isn't simply an issue of metagaming but looking at how things work in their universe and how the laws of physics and physiology seem to be very much averted by the presence of non human world factors. Getting level 1 "physics skill" wouldn't do anything significant to improve your understanding of the universe, considering fore front experts with the equivalent of probably level 15 "physics skill" still cannot come up with viable methods for teleportation using current technology and understanding.You are conflating Illusion Barriers and ki powers with physical laws, when it is implied from statements made by characters there are limitations to the illusion barriers. Your proposed system of teleportation through time controlled ID create ignores that other people can go into your barriers, making it pointless for combat, and the fact that you would need to walk said distance to teleport rendering it pointless for "convinience usage" and the fact that there are limitations on the size and time dilation effects of the barriers meaning it may very well not be instantaneous.
4)From what we've seen there is little crossover between his skills and observe does NOT work off his knowledge but rather a magical method, he has no way of knowing what things like Chubumoons heir or Demon's Invasion are, but they show up completely independent of his knowledge. Your knowledge doesn't upgrade a game you are playing, you are stuck with the HUD available from the gamemaker (Gaia) unless you mod your game. He already has relationship stats, the author has just forgot this from the quest style stuff at the begining, instead focusing on aspects of other games to fit the narrative he wants to write, maybe he'll reintroduce it when Observe levels up more.
5)In their world ki control and the fact that everyone recovers quickly- though not as fast as Jee-Han (Sun-Il claiming he would recover in less than a month from near death means that physiological injuries do NOT work the same in the Manwha in real life, in real life if you break a bone or snap a tendon chances are it will heal but will never be truly 100% again.

And yes I knew points 1 and 3, which I view as common knowledge, I had some vague idea that people could go into shock from burns as well which I'm guessing is the misinformed laymans idea of 2 as well.The body is a lot more fragile in real life than it is in this Manwha, but in the universe with Ki and rapid healing these things are minor and would not put down a superior enemy.
I agree that correct targeting is a good idea, but as gramps said knowing things (i.e. physiological weaknesses) and knowing when to use that knowledge are two different things, and he requires battle experience more than level 1 physiology knowledge, he knows that things like knees are weak points for big slow moving targets, I'm sure his common knowledge affords him the idea of weak points to attack.

In all honesty aside from a few extremities of the body the complete destruction of any part of the body will kill someone or severely cripple them, whether directly through loss of function (e.g. organ destruction, shock or through blood loss), it really isn't difficult or complex. If someone can feasibly shield their spinal column from being completely destroyed by 3 super fast mana arrows that can pierce tree trunks with inch hole diameters I don't see how they can't similarly shield their spinal column from a pressure point strike.

1) Why do you keep putting levels on stuff?  Mana affinity does not have a level; it simply is.  I perceive acquisition of this information (physics & etc) to be more of "unlocking" of skill tree branches rather than acquiring "level 7 mouth-breathing".  By doing so, he simply expands upon his potential.

Furthermore, much to my chagrin, I don't wholly disagree with your main arguments - but the fact that you continue to back your arguments with such poor and misinformed logic/reason is like you've stabbed me directly in the brain with searing, hot blade of stupid.

-Brace yourself for the sarcasm-

• "we've seen Jee-Han being restrained by Sun-il"  It was a headlock.  That's hardly the pinnacle of practical combat prowess.
• "...confronted by death in one of the first chapters by an unknown enemy"   Who has since been identified, and now owes Jihan a solid favor.
• "...had no idea about the mana factory of the abss auction and wouldn't have found out if he wasn't in contact with Chunbumoon"  As the AH guy mentioned, they found him quite my accident while watching Chunbumoon - and presumably discovered his abilities later when he was grinding in those illusion barriers.
• "...I suppose we should make the very big distinction between if we had Jee-han's ability in our world or their world"   Their world is our world.  Its based out of South Korea, and otherwise takes place on Earth in all its facets.  Only difference is the addition of ability users, and the fact this is imaginary. 
• "...Your proposed system of teleportation through time controlled ID create ignores that other people can go into your barriers"  I've ignored nothing.  If he were to manipulate its shape/dimensions as a tunnel, from point A to point B, he would already exist inside of it with the time factor already in play and his adversary on the outside - showing all outside as frozen, as in the instance of the classroom.  Even if not instantaneous, it would be several times faster than he could move otherwise.  1/10 time = 10x faster = ~200 mph (20 mph base), or roughly 2/3 the speed of human thought - faster than someone can perceive and react.  (just another example of useless knowledge i got from books you don't read - psychology)
• "...you are stuck with the HUD available from the gamemaker (Gaia) unless you mod your game"  Unless you mod your game.  He has a gamer ability.  Its feasible, and worth trying.  A few games even have a customizable HUD.
• "Sun-Il claiming he would recover in less than a month from near death means that physiological injuries do NOT work the same in the Manwha in real life, in real life if you break a bone or snap a tendon chances are it will heal but will never be truly 100% again." There you go again with that bullshit. First, bones heal back stronger than before.  Tendons/ligaments have varying degrees of tears, and can have lasting effects.  You probably associate permanent disability with professional athlete careers.  Ever sprained/strained an ankle/muscle?  Were you crippled from it?  No?  OH I SEE!  FASCINATING!!! YOU MUST BE AN ABILITY USER! Again you've conveniently ignored that Sun-il was recovering inside a recovery illusion barrier, and that "one month" would really have been closer to 2-3 on the outside - easily a typical recovery timeframe for fractures and most internal organ damage (with appropriate treatment).
• "And yes I knew points 1 and 3, which I view as common knowledge, I had some vague idea that people could go into shock from burns as well which I'm guessing is the misinformed laymans idea of 2 as well"  Right, so I needn't mention the resulting kidney failure as the 4th potential cause of death I didn't mention previously - another irreversible result of such profound tissue damage.
• "The body is a lot more fragile in real life than it is in this Manwha, but in the universe with Ki and rapid healing these things are minor and would not put down a superior enemy"  That's a strange concept, what with ability users who use firearms still rating on the higher-end of Sun-il's lethality scale.  But if they're immune to 'minor' injuries like life threatening injuries, regardless of the mechanism, then... wait. I'm a little confused right now.  Physics...ballistics... trauma... human physiology... if they're immune to these "minor" things, what with their Ki and rapid healing, then if they can suffer fatal damage to a vital organ, like the lungs, heart, kidneys, and they just heal it off, just what does that say about getting punched in the face?  Oh! So by that logic martial arts are useless as shit, then?  Awesome.  Thanks for clearing that up.  /sarcasm  Ki is just another form of energy; please don't assume its mechanism on human physiology is profoundly different than heat, eletricity, or mechanical energy.
• "If someone can feasibly shield their spinal column from being completely destroyed by 3 super fast mana arrows that can pierce tree trunks with inch hole diameters I don't see how they can't similarly shield their spinal column from a pressure point strike."  Back to that "martial arts are useless" argument.  I'd be just as worried, if not moreso, about the anatomy pierced/destroyed prior to its arrival at the spinal column (assuming the spinal column was my target).  But if it's that easy to defend yourself, then again, I return to my previous statement of how everything else becomes useless in the face of this impregnable defense.  I've stated previously elsewhere that the damage from Jihan's spinning mana arrow is actually akin to a .50 caliber machine gun - that this was probably an oversight by the author is my only logical conclusion because of its devastating implications to Jihan's destructive capabilities.