63 replies to this topic

[svines85]

Well. My personal theory is that when carte was about to be destroyed, Rao (leez dad) saved Asha and in return asked that if she ever meet a girl named kubera protect that girl. Proof: Leez remind her of him. And the only time we know for sure that Rao went to carte was to help the last evacuations. Also I think that he either was who summoned vayu, or used some kind of transcendental that cost him a lot of his lifeforce, which would explain him crying about wishing to see his daughter one more time on the ship returning from carte. 

So while asha is a jerk, she really wants to protect leez, at first as a gratitude towards the man who saved her life and latter because she empathized with her and started to care for her

Yup, seems reasonable that's a possibility of how Asha originally became aware of Leez existence. Of course again, where others see coincidence in the timing of the meeting between Leez and Asha............the absolute perfect moment for a young, devastated child suddenly on her own to be presented with a "savior".......I see not coincidence but intentional manipulation. 

 

Though as I said earlier, it's a matter of perception.........it's subjective. What some might see as manipulation, exploitation and betrayal....others might not. All those things, like beauty, are in the eye of the beholder. Like I said before, Leez might not accept that she's been betrayed at some point later in the story, but I as a reader might see it just that way.......that'll be my call to interpret whatever might happen if indeed some moment of truth actually comes.  

[Paraph]

Hahaha!! Oh my goodness.......... yeah, I remember my first psychology class, I thought I knew just everything that everybody was thinking.

 

You'll do well to leave me out of your amateur attempts at psychoanalysis friend, this is a freaking comic book we're talking about..........a work of fiction........and that's about how seriously I at least take it.  

 

Oh and by the way, just to stay "on topic".........I still think Asha's a jerk.

Ah. to clear up any misunderstandings, i had no intention to psychoanalyze you 'seriously'. what I said is was what i just thought of and wanted to share with you. I don't think levels of seriousness is the case here. You cannot attempt to redefine the reality of your reaction to this work. Isn't it even more interesting that you'd act out the way you do, when the character is not real? If it's just a comic book, why be on this website at all to discuss your opinion on a character you hate? 

 

i do not intend to sway your judgement of Asha; it is yours to make. Since this is off topic and I have no interest in seeing the questions i asked answered, i'll stop here.

[svines85]

Spoiler

Ah. to clear up any misunderstandings, i had no intention to psychoanalyze you 'seriously'. what I said is was what i just thought of and wanted to share with you. I don't think levels of seriousness is the case here. You cannot attempt to redefine the reality of your reaction to this work. Isn't it even more interesting that you'd act out the way you do, when the character is not real? If it's just a comic book, why be on this website at all to discuss your opinion on a character you hate? 

 

i do not intend to sway your judgement of Asha; it is yours to make. Since this is off topic and I have no interest in seeing the questions i asked answered, i'll stop here.

Spoiler

Indeed you are off topic.........entirely, the whole post.............if you don't intend to do ayanchua the courtesy of addressing their topic here then yes,  you really shouldn't post again. I consider the portions of your posts which are trying to question the "whys, hows and where for art thou's" of me as being exceedingly rude to everyone else. 

 

I also find it (in addition to the rudeness) as pretty darned laughable for you to say "no intention to psychoanalyze" when you continue on doing exactly that a little more.............. geez.   >_<

 

Hey, you see this yet?? I'll be nice and polite and warn you it's a spoiler from the new Naver chapter...........  

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

I mean, who's gonna defend that? That was like watching someone kick a puppy half-way across the room.......... 

 

[Tsubaki]

 

I mean, who's gonna defend that? That was like watching someone kick a puppy half-way across the room.......... 

 

I'm gonna defend that 8D    Just looking at the pictures is totaly out of contex.

That scene gave Asha the touch of a human... Leez riskes her live way to easily and talkes like it's nothing... I would have slapped her too. For me that shows that Asha actually does care for Leez.

 

On to topic 8D

I was wondering, like SilverAlex, if Asha was actually searching for Leez, because she met Rao on the last transportship from Carte and he told her all about his daughter and maybe he even asked Asha to protect her. Also was wondering if it was Rao who summoned Vayu, but that would be impossible because he doesn't have a wind atribute (if I got the part right that you must have an attribute of the god you want to summon). Then I was thinking that Asha has a windattribute and maybe it was her and somehow Rao's lifeforce was used but that's just my strange head...Well Asha seems to feel guilty for something that has to do with Rao.

 

Anyway we do know that Asha gave up on everything to gain power, because she wants to win the war at all costs. So why doesn't she ''discard her hand'' when she has a clear possibility of winning when doing so... I think it's because she actually started to care about the people close to her and doesn't want to give up on them, thus there are some scenes especially when she talks to Yuta were she shows a rather soft and suffering face...

 

We also know that she simply can't speak about everething she wants because something is holding her back, she seems to be not allowed to speak out loud. I wonder if showing affection is something she had to give up on and now she simply can't speak out how she feels. Also after re-reading the whole thing again I noticed that Asha is always suspiciously calm, you could say it's because she's badass or doesn't really care about anything, but for me it looked like she knows whats going to happen... random tought: Visnu silent-magic?

 

Seeing Asha simply as a jerk is a way to one-dimensional way to look at her. There are no one-dimensional characters in Kubera <.<

 

It's almost 2:00 AM please bear with me if there are spelling or grammar mistakes...

Edited by Tsubaki, 13 November 2013 - 12:54 AM.

[svines85]

I'm gonna defend that 8D    Just looking at the pictures is totaly out of contex.

That scene gave Asha the touch of a human... Leez riskes her live way to easily and talkes like it's nothing... I would have slapped her too. For me that shows that Asha actually does care for Leez.

No no no!! You're being an "enabler"!! Violence against a child!!! .................JUST LOOK AT THOSE "SAD PUPPY DOG EYES" !!!!   

Edited by svines85, 13 November 2013 - 01:16 AM.

[Mizura]

^ You know, Asha and Leez aren't on a school trip. Leez needs to become a proper fighter capable of surviving many Sura attacks...

 

Asha's treatment of Leez Could be seen as a cross between spanking and outdated military discipline. You know, "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger..."

 

Leez and Ran can act more or less relaxed because they don't realize the full extent of what's going on. Asha does realize it: her whole planet was blown up, Willarv probably risks being destroyed as well, and she spent the last 10 years on her guard while trying to become stronger as quickly as possible.

 

Asha knows that what she does won't kill Leez, not even cutting her head off. Because bigger things are at stake, she views it as a minor thing. Notice that even when Yuta ate her arm and nearly ate her whole, she didn't get mad at Yuta either. She's not the type to view the occasional physical violence (as long as they don't end in death) as a big deal.

Edited by Mizura, 13 November 2013 - 03:08 AM.

[SilverAlex]

> Tsubaki: The name of the mage who summoned vayu has never been mentioned, so for now the theory that Rao was the summoner is still standing XD My theory is that anyone can try to summon a god, but having the right attributes helps greatly in succeeding on the summoning and on how much lifeforce you must sacrifice. So maybe since he didnt had the right attributes, he had to sacrifice a lot of his lifeforce, and whatever was the transcendental vayu used to rescue all those people it mus have costed a lot for him

>svines: On the contex it was a reasonable thing to do. 

Spoiler

Asha was really mad and worried about Leez risking her life

However, what isn't right, and makes her look as a jerk its no explaining her feelings. 
Also, as it was said before, they arent on a road trip. They must get stronger and survive, using stricter means of training is IMO totally acceptable. 

[Tsubaki]

 

No no no!! You're being an "enabler"!! Violence against a child!!! .................JUST LOOK AT THOSE "SAD PUPPY DOG EYES" !!!!   

 

xD I wasn’t saying that I’m a friend of using violence, I just understand the feelings that can lead you to using it.

And yeah the puppy is cute, but Leez isn't as cute as a puppy remember she's actually ''ugly'' xD

 

 

Leez and Ran can act more or less relaxed because they don't realize the full extent of what's going on. Asha does realize it: her whole planet was blown up, Willarv probably risks being destroyed as well, and she spent the last 10 years on her guard while trying to become stronger as quickly as possible.

 

Asha knows that what she does won't kill Leez, not even cutting her head off. Because bigger things are at stake, she views it as a minor thing. Notice that even when Yuta ate her arm and nearly ate her whole, she didn't get mad at Yuta either. She's not the type to view the occasional physical violence (as long as they don't end in death) as a big deal.

 

 

I think Mizura is hitting the nail on the head here. Thats exactly what one should have in mind when thinking about Ashas actions.

 

 

Tsubaki: The name of the mage who summoned vayu has never been mentioned, so for now the theory that Rao was the summoner is still standing XD My theory is that anyone can try to summon a god, but having the right attributes helps greatly in succeeding on the summoning and on how much lifeforce you must sacrifice. So maybe since he didnt had the right attributes, he had to sacrifice a lot of his lifeforce, and whatever was the transcendental vayu used to rescue all those people it mus have costed a lot for him

 

That totaly makes sense, I should reconsider o_o

 

 

Btw. anyone else thinking Ashas furr-coak might be ''part'' of Shuri?
 

[svines85]

And yeah the puppy is cute, but Leez isn't as cute as a puppy remember she's actually ''ugly'' xD

 

Oh now that's so uncalled for, Leez is waaaaayyyyy cuter than any puppy............of course I'm a big Sagara fan too so you might not want to trust my judgement.  

[falk182]

Also after re-reading the whole thing again I noticed that Asha is always suspiciously calm, you could say it's because she's badass or doesn't really care about anything, but for me it looked like she knows whats going to happen... random tought: Visnu silent-magic?

 

Could be, but I recall a few incidents - most notably, both times when she used Hoti Visnu (water channel and Yuta) - when she was caught off guard.  I think it's more that she's extremely level-headed and calculating, PLUS she's seen it all already, so most of what she's come across is old hat.
 

There are no one-dimensional characters in Kubera <.<

 

 

Um, I think Riche fits the bill.  Mmm, the bill...

[Upset]

Asha will go to Hell because she dislikes the gods. : (

at least Leez can rely on Asha, who can Asha rely on?

This is a common theme in the series, but it usually applies to Nastika and Gods(and partly Leez), who are far more powerful than her.

[Giantess]

Well. My personal theory is that when carte was about to be destroyed, Rao (leez dad) saved Asha and in return asked that if she ever meet a girl named kubera protect that girl. Proof: Leez remind her of him. And the only time we know for sure that Rao went to carte was to help the last evacuations. Also I think that he either was who summoned vayu, or used some kind of transcendental that cost him a lot of his lifeforce, which would explain him crying about wishing to see his daughter one more time on the ship returning from carte. 

So while asha is a jerk, she really wants to protect leez, at first as a gratitude towards the man who saved her life and latter because she empathized with her and started to care for her

The problem with this is that God Kubera (who seems to know the full story) expressed disbelief that Leez considers Asha a friend.  This implies, to me, that Asha's hidden history probably gives her a reason to hate Leez, not a reason to protect her.

 

(Also, it's just the law of drama.  There would be no reason to keep the kind of thing you described a secret; it's been repeatedly hinted that Asha is hiding some sinister secret with regards to Leez, and "I want to protect you because your father asked me" is exactly the opposite of that.)

Edited by Giantess, 16 November 2013 - 01:46 AM.

[svines85]

The problem with this is that God Kubera (who seems to know the full story) expressed disbelief that Leez considers Asha a friend.  This implies, to me, that Asha's hidden history probably gives her a reason to hate Leez, not a reason to protect her.

 

(Also, it's just the law of drama.  There would be no reason to keep the kind of thing you described a secret; it's been repeatedly hinted that Asha is hiding some sinister secret with regards to Leez, and "I want to protect you because your father asked me" is exactly the opposite of that.)

Hey look, I finally got some support for my "Asha is a jerk soon to be a major villain" stance!!  

[Mizura]

^ God Kubera then told Leez "From now on, trust those who are by your side. Trust them, hold onto them, keep them with you." though.

[Euodiachloris]

Hey look, I finally got some support for my "Asha is a jerk soon to be a major villain" stance!!  

I think Asha's going to be like everybody else: a villain to some and a hero to others -- and, to still others... a footnote. But, I doubt she'll ever be an outright villain or hero to Leez or even Ran or Yuta.  They know her a little too much to have such simplistic views of her.  Even though two of that number are trying hard to cling to blinkers.

 

For all Ran's been zapped to insensibility enough times to hate her guts, I doubt he actually will, whatever happens: he's seen enough under that surface of hers to realise that the tides are a hell of a lot deeper than he originally thought.

 

And, as for Yuta... like he's one to talk. Won't stop him trying to eat Asha (again) if he should find her trying to kill Leez, though. Don't forget: he's pretty aware that Asha is somehow using Leez... but, doesn't seem to mind that, as, at the same time... she's protecting the girl.  And, when it comes to Leez, his radar is pretty good.  If Asha meant Leez direct harm... she'd be lunch in an instant.

Edited by Euodiachloris, 20 November 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[Mizura]

Huh! You make a good point about Yuta! If he doubted Asha's motivations, he'd gobble her up in an instant. Though maybe he'd spit her back out since he promised Shuri that he won't eat humans. >_> That said, Yuta obviously doesn't know the full picture either, since he was surprised when Asha asked him who he's side with if she fought against Leez.

 

What I was more interested in is Leez' dream of her mother after her village was destroyed. Anna clearly described Asha as a friend.

 

By the way, a random thought occurred to me recently: does Asha even Know that Leez was completely deprived of an education? Asha told Leez not to talk about her background, and I'm sure she never asked her either. She may have never considered that Leez was never allowed to learn anything. As a result, she may have deduced that Leez' ignorance is due to her either being extremely lazy or extremely stupid. Hmm...

 

Asha and Leez had very different lives growing up. Just as Leez can't imagine Asha's life growing up, Asha probably can't imagine Leez' life, either. Obviously, this would in part explain why they have so much trouble communicating. From what I can tell, Asha assumed that Leez' attitude towards revenge would be the same as hers. Perhaps she even expected Leez to be just like her. When it turned out that she was completely off, Asha didn't quite know how to handle Leez. She expected a revenge-obsessed monster and got a chickie. O_o

Edited by Mizura, 20 November 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[svines85]

I think Asha's going to be like everybody else: a villain to some and a hero to others -- and, to still others... a footnote. But, I doubt she'll ever be an outright villain or hero to Leez or even Ran or Yuta.  They know her a little too much to have such simplistic views of her.  Even though two of that number are trying hard to cling to blinkers.

Yup, I agree. As I said earlier, "whether Leez accepts it or not, her overall characterization will ultimately be that of one of the more notorious villains in the story."

 

Yup, when all's said and done, it'll be a matter of personal interpretation and perspective for both the characters and the readers.

[Paper]

I felt rather indifferent about Asha until a bit later in the series, where her expressions toward Leez became more deadpan. I found those to be quite hilarious. But that's just currygom for you, she can make some really good expressions for her characters and knows exactly when to employ them...

[nikyangelg]

I adore Asha. She is a very complex character.

I think that Asha is actually a very kind person, but she doesn't allow herself to express affection. Emotions are not something that will help her in her revenge. If she would care about every single person she's had to discard in order to achieve her goal she would lose her mind. Therefore her lack of affection is most likely a defense mechanism.

But that defense seems to be failing around Leez. Why?

The first reason is probably related to Leez's father, Rao Leez. We still don't know how Asha met him or what happened when they met, but what is certain is that he left a strong impression on her. I suspect that his death was in someway connected with Asha. (Perhaps he was given the neutrality bow and asked to save Asha who was stranded on Carte, which resulted in his death). I interpret an element of guilt from Asha towards Rao Leez. For example when Leez is affected by the Hoti Yama and asks Asha to save her. Asha thinks " This is unfair. How can I refuse when sh'es begging me with your face." 

The second reason is empathy. Asha can understand what Leez is feeling, the pain, the sorrow and the anger of losing everything, of losing one's place in the world. 

The third reason is that she sees in Leez a past reflection of herself. Leez's purity and innocence reminds Asha of the child she once was, before she lost everything and she discarded her humanity in order to achieve her goals. And she wants to protect that innocence for as long as possible.

I said the defense system is failing. Despite that Asha doesn't allow Leez to find out she really cares about her. I interpret this as a proof of kindness too. Her coldness towards Leez anticipates a future rupture between the two. Asha makes it easier for Leez to hate her by being cold and seemingly heartless. 

Rao Leez states in a flashback that Asha lives for the death. Revenge is, probably, her ultimate goal  

(although it is unclear what her revenge consists in). But she doesn't seem to wish to outlive her revenge. But I want her to live.  

 

There are many questions without answers related to Asha. We only have a few flashbacks about her past which are widely interpretable ( we have flashbacks of small Leez, I want one with Asha as a child). I hope that there will be an element in her past or future that gives her back her desire to live.

 

Following this line of thought I started wondering about the relationship between god Kubera and Asha. How did they meet, how come he was there when she needed power, why did he decide to grant her power? Call me crazy shipper, but I actually imagined a romantic relationship between the two. (I think Asha has a very important role in this cosmic battle and god Kubera might have always known that. He approached her as a child and became attached to her.) I hope that someone “will keep her here” as Brilith put it. No one is beyond redemption, especially not Asha since she has always tried her best and never gave up.

 

[Marim]

^

Nice post! 

 

As for crazy shipping, don't worry about it too much for example I can't get Kali x God Kubera out of my head and actually I think God Kubera might be Asha's father.