98 replies to this topic

[themantarays]

This thread is dedicated to discussing One Last God: Kubera's pros and cons, and comparing it to other comics. (No Kubera spoilers; let's talk in general terms to keep it accessible for prospective readers.)

 

I say "other comics," but 90% of the time, if you're discussing Kubera, you don't last 60 seconds before you're comparing it to Tower of God, so I'm going to talk about those two first. XD

 

Kubera and ToG are two of my three absolute favorite full-length comics of all time, and if you asked me what I like about them, I'd sound like I thought they were the same thing; mystery, suspense, unpredictability, unknown and relevant back stories and motivations, vast and at least partially unexplained settings, mysterious powers related to talent, multiple factions, empathy with villains, setting-related politicking, and direct connection of action sequences with plot and emotional development, to name a few factors. ^^ But in all the things I've listed, Kubera and ToG completely differ.

 

I'll add more when I'm less midtermed. >.>

[Mizura]

Aww yeah! There was this essay I was wondering where to post for a while now!

 

My three favorite ongoing series nowadays are Kubera, Tower of God and Cheese in the Trap, and one thing in "common" among them is their awesome complex narrative system.

 

Tower of God has what I'd call a convergence system with embedded scheming progression. The multiple characters or factions each carry their own complex plotlines (the Zahard Princesses, FUG, Wing Tree, Koon, etc.), but these histories are mostly independent (Anak has nothing to do with Koon, Leesoo has nothing to do with Rachel, Rak has nothing to do with Yuri). Several of the major factions have historical oppositions already, but each side was mostly doing his own thing and things were mostly at a standstill until Baam came in and basically caused the stories of multiple characters and factions to entangle into a complex knot. SIU displays this knot in the form of an embedded scheming progression, where basically successive levels of scheming turn out to be part of even larger plots. In Part I, what happened with Ho then Koon's plans all turned out as part of Rachel's betrayal, which in turn turned out to be part of FUG's larger plan to make Baam into a living weapon. The same thing is repeating in Part II, with both Horyang's past and all of the plans from Baam's friends turning out to be a larger ploy. And the thing is, we saw at the beginning of Season II that Repellista Zahard was enjoying the whole show, so not doubt even these are connected to plans from other factions within the Tower. As these plots are progressively revealed, you suddenly see older chapters as part of a greater plotline rather than random and independent conversations.

 

Kubera has a historical weave with fragmented-timelines revelation system. In Tower of God, the plotlines and characters clash in the current timeline, whereas in Kubera, the interconnections occurred in the past. The basis of the story is formed by the interweaving of over a dozen major and minor threads, and they are Not brought together through the main character, instead they were closely connected in the past. Some threads occur over several generations: Leez herself is surprisingly poorly connected to other characters historically, but her father seem to be connected to all this, as are the parents of Maruna, Yuta, maybe Kasak and Ran etc. Through the many individual threads, Currygom progressively reveals the complexity of the real story and the many interconnections, using a narrative system that mixes multiple points in the past, the present and even glimpses of the future. The result of this is that the present is (for now) just the tip of the iceberg, and you need to dig into the past to get the full story. For those that enjoy doing so though, this story reads as even more of a mystery story than most detective stories, forcing the reader to painstakingly piecing together the fragmented pieces, uncovering the hidden knots, etc. Although many stories will have a few interconnected plotlines, the scale at which Kubera does this (several dozen characters, several planets, several realms, multiple major dates occurring over centuries) is absolutely monstrous, resulting in a fascinating narrative experience.

 

Cheese in the Trap has a double-timeline system with deep character point-of-view portrayal. Unlike the previous two, Cheese in the Trap doesn't benefit from a complex fantasy world with many clashing factions, but it manages to become an extremely fascinating read through merely the depth of its portrayals. Part of this is, as I said, accomplished through a double-timeline system. The story constantly jumps between the present and the past, and from this you try to piece together what exactly is going on right now. To make things trickier, Sul's POV is obviously biased and incomplete. The characters of Kubera display bias and incomplete knowledge as well, but Cheese in the Trap really digs deep into everyday bias. You are left to wonder whether to trust the character's judgement, or instead to dismiss it as paranoia, and the extent to which Soon Ki does this is truly something I'd never have expected in a Shoujo manga. Of course, the Extremely well-portrayed main character just makes you want to stay with the story.

 

So that's it on complex narrative systems in a nutshell. The specific tools involves aren't necessarily unique to their respective series: just about every Shounen manga will have a few interwoven plotlines and a flashback or two, but the extent and depth with which the above-mentioned three series uses these tools is rarely seen. Many secondary characters in Shounen series have their own history, but it just about ends as soon as the main character shows up and said secondary character becomes his follower. In Tower of God though, the plotlines revealed by secondary characters are not something the main character "solves", instead they're part of a more complex and ongoing conspiracy. Most stories have flashbacks, but they're usually some cheap drama device used before a character is killed. :\ Kubera's flashbacks have several layers of purposes: to show the characters' emotional situation, to reveal more about major events/history in the world, and to imply plotlines that even the character may not be aware of (example: Brilith's flashbacks concerning her mother imply the abnormal situation that Agni was for some reason absent in N5, even though he should have been summoned by Jibril). Also, not one or two, but several Dozen characters used to progressively reveal the real plot? In a series like Naruto, for example, only the revelations of Naruto and Sasuke's pasts approach anything Kubera does, and those revelations are scattered across a few chapters of revelation every hundred chapters or so. Most other character revelations are mostly one-time things that seem to be tacked on at the last minute. Finally, Cheese in the Trap does an incredible job of exploiting memories and point-of-view to provide a sense of mystery to readers. At a time where I've become fed-up of most shoujo series because of their stereotypical characters and linear progression through predictable and obligatory milestones (guy saving the girl from something, obligatory tutoring session, obligatory school festival, etc.), this dynamic narrative is quite a breath of fresh air.

Edited by Mizura, 01 November 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[Snowl]

The biggest difference is simple: it's been plotted out from start to finish. The story and characters are very polished for a serialization.

 

For example, when I read ToG I think an amateur is writing the story (albeit with flashes of brilliance), lots of things are handled clumsily. (Before people jump down my throat that doesn't make it a bad webcomic. In fact, I think it's good despite its flaws.)

Edited by Snowl, 02 November 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[Arka]

Well, I guess OLG Kubera was originally planned as a book, but natively illustrated as a webcomic, so it's much more structured than other webcomics and more fixed in scope. Another plus is that the author also has control over her vision, as compared to the messed up Twilight and Alex Rider graphic novels.

This is also a shortcoming because the things that might be obvious in a written format may not be so clear when drawn due to time and story-telling limitations, which I guess causes people to overlook many tiny details and get confused (e.g. "I had no idea that this was this until I looked at the Wikia"). I guess even though the setting is rather fresh, Kubera is not as ambitious in scope such as... Knight Run? Which looks like it could last forever.

The nuances between the slow plot could put off many readers as the story may not be progressing fast enough for them. In Crepuscule you get one revelation after another, in Kubera one night in Kubera takes a dozen chapters or something.

The lack of dynamic scenes in Kubera kind of defies the action genre Currygom had said the series may be about, yes, there are awesome frames of movement (which I think Currygom doesn't drawn very well, compared to how the character are portrayed in Witch Hunter), but characters are always reacting in a really mild way instead of mass panic (e.g. sees Maruna in Sura form, "lol is that a sura, let's get closer") which is rather disquieting.

There are lots of "deep" things in Kubera, but nowadays everyone is there for the fighting and adventure, so the message doesn't really get passed around.

Kubera is also not very easy to pick up. Some series you can start reading in the middle without a hitch, but you would be left comatose if you tried to read Kubera without starting from the very beginning. In my case, when I was skimming through the chapters, all I saw was a orange guy playing around with fire, a blue/gray guy (girl) appearing, talking, and then suddenly a green guy is bathing and a 2m white dude just walks in. It made zero sense to me.

Instead of a meager hope, one is told outright that the story will end in tragedy, which will put off those who look for happy endings, and the flashbacks and foreshadowing are too heavy and vague. Even frames that should show more detail were obscure because Currygom only got her monitor calibrated later. For the foreshadowing, Abide in the Wind does it better.

The naming of the many, many characters are also not very reader friendly, they are strange and convoluted (e.g. Ian is a girl name, and apparently Lard is a name as well, Ghandarva is a... fish?) for those who didn't get the context and remind me of the ambitious high fantasy series as compared to the writings of 30 years ago, which I mostly disliked due to the invented up terminology. Though there are "only" 8 main characters, the rest of the characters are very forgettable.

The art is very flat and do not stand out from better drawn comics (or ones drawn not as decently but more likable) such as Moon-ah or Twelve Nights. It rather reminds me of Shilin's art with its muted palette. The whole webcomic covers its bases as an all-rounder but has nothing has makes it super special.

TL;DR It doesn't appeal to the masses with its lack of ambition.

 

EDIT: Damn you autocorrect.

Edited by Arka, 01 March 2014 - 06:31 PM.

[Random-Webtoon-Fan]

I would like to point out the difference between how author gives fans info about settings of Webtoons.

Usually things like info about cities, places, people, skills etc are explained within the story, by a person explaining or narration. Some of these Webtoons use temporal break to upload more detailed explanation of settings.

However, some Webtoons, Tower of God and Kubera for example, posts infos in personal blogs.

Now I do love reading these Webtoons, they are within my favorites, but I have to say it isn't good way.

It makes people depend on other sources from Manwha itself , I believe.


The difference is that

Tower of God has some infos that requires people to be his blog friends, which is limited in numbers. (But they are changed open for all when enough info is revealed in raw.)

Kubera puts just so much info in author blog, and won't let people post it anywhere else.



As I said before, I really do love these two Webtoons, but I hope this blog problem would be solved.

[Mizura]

lol, in my review of Kubera, I noted "Read it if you like a good mystery. Don't read it if you're looking for weekly action." Arka's review seems like a perfect example of the latter.

 

It's true though, Kubera is hard to get into. In another forum I described Kubera as "it will give you back as much as you put into it. To put it another way, if you read it in a superficial manner, you'll get a superficial story, so it'd be like "Hey it's been 150 chapters, how come nothing's happened yet?" If you really read closely and connect the scattered scenes though, you get a completely different story."

 

Speaking of lack of ambition, I dunno, I don't think I've ever read another mystery set across over half a dozen races, several planets, several realms, several generations and a period of over 500 years, and told from the point of views of 10 major characters (each with sub-plots) and many minor characters that Also have major roles. You may have to re-read it once or twice to truly get the scope of the story though, so yeah, it's hard to get into. There's a guy at another forum who noted that he just re-read it for the third time, and it's even better than his first two reads because he noticed so many things he's missed. It's the same for me, and I don't get that from many series. "As good as the first time I read it", sure, but Better at each re-read? It depends if you just want a quick weekly relaxing read, or if you like a series where you can dig out new stuff and new theories like... forever.

 

Speaking of forever, Kubera will easily go on for over 400 chapters. You'd notice that if you actually paid attention to how much is left to be revealed.

Edited by Mizura, 02 November 2013 - 05:37 PM.

[Snowl]

I would like to point out the difference between how author gives fans info about settings of Webtoons.

Usually things like info about cities, places, people, skills etc are explained within the story, by a person explaining or narration. Some of these Webtoons use temporal break to upload more detailed explanation of settings.

However, some Webtoons, Tower of God and Kubera for example, posts infos in personal blogs.

Now I do love reading these Webtoons, they are within my favorites, but I have to say it isn't good way.

It makes people depend on other sources from Manwha itself , I believe.


The difference is that

Tower of God has some infos that requires people to be his blog friends, which is limited in numbers. (But they are changed open for all when enough info is revealed in raw.)

Kubera puts just so much info in author blog, and won't let people post it anywhere else.



As I said before, I really do love these two Webtoons, but I hope this blog problem would be solved.

I haven't read any Kubera blog posts, so I don't think they're a detriment to the story. Currygom has included everything you need to know in the webcomic itself.

[Random-Webtoon-Fan]

I haven't read any Kubera blog posts, so I don't think they're a detriment to the story. Currygom has included everything you need to know in the webcomic itself.

Actually, there has been lots of stuff that could be crucial to understanding Kubera, like how each transdental works, why Yuta can't use any, how magic really works, differance bewteen Hoti and Braviti, Magic property of each person, how half/quarter works etc

[Mizura]

The way I see it, you don't need to read Currygom's blog posts to eventually understand the story. However, her blog posts offer additional clues that help you piece together the plot a bit faster. Some of the information, like Asha being from Carte, are eventually revealed in the series. Others offer indirect clues, or clarify mechanisms or abilities for which you could normally just provide an educated guess for (a big one is how the finite explicitly clarified that Visnu could "see the consequences of all choices", and that he could see up to the end of the Universe. This is only vaguely hinted at in the webtoon via Visnu telling Kasak that he "won't tell him the consequences of his choices").

 

In truth, Kubera's plot has always been one giant puzzle. Even without the blog post, digging up all the clues from all the chapters itself is a huge task (my reference thread corresponds to a 25 page document, still needs to be updated, and I've recently found new stuff that I'll have to add in. I'll have to re-read it properly a few times again...). Currygom's blog content are just additional clues to add to this huuuuge pile. xD

 

The funny thing is that you don't even recognize certain behavioral patterns as clues until something is inferred later in the series, like the fact that

Spoiler

something is preventing Asha from speaking.

When that happens, random interactions suddenly become a new trail of clues. Really, the scale at which Currygom does this is ridiculous. D: The thing is, in most manga, suspicious scenes will be highlighted via dramatic angles and showing us the characters' expressions and thoughts. In Kubera, a lot of the scenes pass off for fillers until it turns out they weren't. O_o;; I mean, I never would have guessed that

Spoiler

Asha going "...."

was something suspicious.

 

Shingeki no Kyojin also does some foreshadowing, but it does so in a much less... polished manner? I once came across a forum post where a person actually managed to guess the identities of the colossal and armored titans, by piecing together unnatural behavior that indeed, the author re-showed when he revealed those identities. Also, in one scene, a minor character gets mistaken for another before being eventually killed. I would guess that a careful reader might have seen the resemblance with another character.

 

The way Shingeki no Kyojin's characters are presented though makes these clues hard to piece together. Since characters were being killed off right and left in the beginning, I just expected most characters to die soon, so didn't really pay attention to them. Also, the character art is pretty bad. I had a really hard time telling who is who at first because they all looked pretty generic and had no outstanding traits (which is probably why the anime is considered better. At least it had hair colors.). Also, Shingeki no Kyojin in the end doesn't make that much effort at foreshadowing. A lot of the characters who later had bigger roles were barely "foreshadowed" at all: they barely had any panel time (nevermind "big" panel time) before an actual reveal stuffed something big down our throats, and some characters weren't even named before. I mentioned that someone anticipated the identities of those two titans, but he was just about the only one, and most readers were skeptic because the clues weren't too convincing and some could be passed off as awkwardly-drawn art (I find Shingeki no Kyojin's titan art to be glorious, but the character art... not too much). I find this to be a pity, because as a result, Shingeki no Kyojin robs its readers of the satisfaction of anticipating a good mystery. There's a balancing game.

 

In Kubera, by contrast, readers couldn't tell what exactly happened to the Gandharva clan at first, but they could tell that something happened and try to theorize on what it was in advance. And although I still have trouble figuring the exact timeline in N5 and how everything evolved to the current situation, I can see which parties are involved and try to find ways to tie together the clues. In the same way, readers have a hard time guessing God Kubera's motivations, but Currygom provides us with a trail of clues to progressively try to formulate a logical explanation (which is much harder that it seems, since so many behaviors seem contradictory. That's one of Currygom's geniuses: she can give us a mountain of clues and we just get more confused, yet in the end she will still provide us with a clear explanation).

 

All that said, Shingeki no Kyojin's strengths are quite different from Kubera's, and based on the writing, I do think it deserves to have success on the same level of other popular Shounen series (some of which have really shitty writing...). I guess I was just a bit disappointed that despite Shingeky no Kyojin's strong mystery aspects, I couldn't quite replicate the mystery experience I had with Kubera.

Edited by themantarays, 19 March 2014 - 12:48 PM.
Months late, but SPOILERS Mizura, SPOILERS!

[Snowl]

Actually, there has been lots of stuff that could be crucial to understanding Kubera, like how each transdental works, why Yuta can't use any, how magic really works, differance bewteen Hoti and Braviti, Magic property of each person, how half/quarter works etc

Is it really necessary though? I can tell you approximately what the effect of each spell is, it doesn't particularly matter why Yuta can't use magic but I know he doesn't, etc.

 

None of those are essential. Think of Harry Potter, magic is never described in rigorous detail and it doesn't really need to be. Obviously, Currygom has put a lot of thought into it which is nice to see and certainly adds something, but in a comic these details tend to be left out or you typically get info dumps that don't really add anything to the story.

 

I've read the ToG blog posts and misc stuff but honestly I'm not sure how much it really adds (or possibly even detract from the story) which is why I've stayed away from it with Kubera.

[Random-Webtoon-Fan]

I admit the info being crucial might be not so for general story, but it is when one tries to understand why certain situations happens.

For example, we can't know how Voldmort, who is supposed to be one of greatest wizards, could not find three students on run. like people can't know why Asha is not using various Bravati magics even in danger.





I have seen some cases where people in this forums wanted more explanation, most of which were in blog. But even though I read them, I couldn't tell them because of 'No copying blog posts' Rule of Currygom. That surely sucks.

[flowsthead]

Is it really necessary though? I can tell you approximately what the effect of each spell is, it doesn't particularly matter why Yuta can't use magic but I know he doesn't, etc.

 

None of those are essential. Think of Harry Potter, magic is never described in rigorous detail and it doesn't really need to be. Obviously, Currygom has put a lot of thought into it which is nice to see and certainly adds something, but in a comic these details tend to be left out or you typically get info dumps that don't really add anything to the story.

 

I've read the ToG blog posts and misc stuff but honestly I'm not sure how much it really adds (or possibly even detract from the story) which is why I've stayed away from it with Kubera.

 

The TOG blog posts definitely add a lot. Anticipating Urek Mazino before you meet him, and what he actually means to the Tower's inhabitants is a pretty big piece of information in Season 2. Since I read all of the blog posts, I don't know how those season 2 scenes play out not knowing who he is. It would be a completely different experience.

 

I'm with Random-Webtoon-Fan about this. I don't like that information being in the blog posts. I would prefer if it were in the story in some fashion. I realize exposition is hard to do, and who really is going to sit there listing off all of the factions with all of their most powerful members and not sound like the most unnatural thing ever, but there has to be some way.

[basilabdef]

Why does no one ever mention Magician in these discussions?  It is far, far superior to both Kubera and ToG as far as fantasy/adventure type manhwa go.

[flowsthead]

Why does no one ever mention Magician in these discussions?  It is far, far superior to both Kubera and ToG as far as fantasy/adventure type manhwa go.

 

I read the first 30 to 40 chapters of that and got very little enjoyment out of the whole thing. "Far, far superior" is pretty subjective. I personally found it pretty forgettable with really offputting art.

[rak n' roll]

Why does no one ever mention Magician in these discussions?  It is far, far superior to both Kubera and ToG as far as fantasy/adventure type manhwa go.

 

Both the overall complexity of the story being told and the simplified manner by which it's narrated put Magician well behind ToG and Kubera.  Using an analogue to horror movies, it's almost like comparing Nightmare on Elm Street 4 with Psycho.

 

IMO, of course.

 

I absolutely love Currygom's ability to dye each one of the threads in the current story with colors taken from mysterious events of the past.  So that the past itself ends up being as much of a character in development as any of the actual characters.

[NomenHicInserto]

What makes Kubera different? Several things.

 

• Plot. I wouldn't say it's the plot itself - however unique and fascinating it is - it's really more of the portrayal of it. It's the way Currygom delivers the story. I am absolutely fascinated by way the the story is narrated. It's confusing at times, complex, and unique. Since everything is so heavily shrouded in mystery, piecing together the bits of info you get from flashbacks of the past and insights into the future together with what is going presently, to better understand the story, is really an interesting and pleasant experience. This is my favorite part of Kubera.
   
• Setting. Its world is so vast and intricately detailed. I am literally wowed by Currygom's imagination. Unlike so many series out there, the world actually makes sense in terms of logic. Things aren't simply what they are simply because they are; no, there's a logical explanation for it. The magic? It works on a mathematical system. The races? I can write books about their biology. And so on. There's so much, I can't even explain it all without writing a thesis.
   
• Characters. In most stories, only the (main) protagonists seem to matter. In Kubera, every character matters - be it supporting characters or main characters. They play a role in the story, and they can't be replaced. All their stories come together to form the main one. That wouldn't mean much if the cast wasn't so large. Even so, Kubera doesn't lose its focus. Like I said, every character has a role to play in the story. Besides that, the characters aren't flat, 2D cutouts. They have depth, they have personality, they actually have reasons for their actions. I think the characters of Kubera stand out a lot.

...and that's just scraping the surface.

 

Aww yeah! There was this essay I was wondering where to post for a while now!

 

My three favorite ongoing series nowadays are Kubera, Tower of God and Cheese in the Trap, and one thing in "common" among them is their awesome complex narrative system.

My three favorite series are also Kubera, Tower of God, and Cheese in the Trap. In the same order.

Edited by Nomen Hic Inserto, 05 November 2013 - 02:56 AM.

[smthFishy]

In my opinion, both Kubera and Tower of God are both myths, but on diametric sides of the spectrum. I have read some (not enough) of the structural narrative theory espoused by Northrop Frye, who formulates something of a mother of all theories for all narratives (think the super-string theory for literature). According to Frye, all stories are informed by two basic myths - of "Heaven and the Apocalyptic" and of "Hell and the Demonic".  Both stories take place close to the level of "conceivable limits of desire". Kubera shows the positive, the human need to both at once to accept and overcome finitude, akin to the tradition story of the Death and Rebirth tales of Evangelion/Easter/Inana's descent to underworld, and so forth. ToG on the hand shows the negative, of what to avoid, i.e. the Inferno, abandon all hope ye enters. Although in ToG's case, I might add what should have been avoided has come to being, and so it could be read not quite as a myth but as realistic fiction, in which case, in Frye's term, the mythic is displaced towards the realistic, becoming ironic. In other words, ToG would be No Country for Young Men. Just my 2cents.

Edited by 동사서독, 05 November 2013 - 05:53 AM.

[themantarays]

My favorite 3 series are Tower of God, Black Lagoon, and Kubera, in that order, although I swear ToG (and Kubera I guess) I will hate with a burning passion for all of eternity if the author gives me a reveal of a mediocre grand secret. (Black Lagoon I like mostly for completely different reasons, but the last two big arcs, Fujiyama Gangsta Paradise and El Baile de la Muerte, were right up there with the other two in plot/emotional complexity... with some allowance for freaking ridiculous and unnecessary minor details (like cutting a bullet with a sword, wtf it was a good scene without it, and please don't ever drive a boat off a ramp into a helicopter again).) I also like Cheese, about as much as I like Sing Yesterday For Me, but I usually never relate to the characters in relationship stories because I would always act so differently if it was me (true with other stories, too, but not as important, since the plot is not being driven by the characters as much usually). Objectively, though, Cheese is about as good as my favorites, too.

 

But anyway, I basically made this thread for the sole purpose of talking about Kubera and Tower of God (^^), so I'll do that finally.

 

First of all, let me burst my fellow ToG fans' bubbles a bit here. ToG is not some master anti-shounen genius work that descended from the heavens to spit in the face of stereotypical action comics. It is SUUUPER shounen. That doesn't mean it's bad. It's just that if you can think of a shounen trope, ToG has it plus Jesus. It's just that ToG is also original, and pulls off the shounen staples the way it's supposed to.

 

Kubera is a little strange to categorize, so I'm not going to try. Although, not being able to categorize a work is, to some people, a great achievement.

 

ToG is driven by mystery; if we knew what the hell Baam was, we wouldn't care. Admit it. I'd still read it, but I wouldn't refresh Naver from 7:55 to 8:15 every Sunday. The action isn't why we read it.

 

Kubera is also driven by mystery, but the way they're driven is different. While ToG slowly reveals the truth by having the gang enter into perilous situations and figure it out, Kubera reveals itself through an odd mix of flashbacks and foreshadowing. This is partly due to the fact that master players are main characters in Kubera, and partly to the great teasing Currygom dishes out. As far as originality of storytelling goes, Kubera takes the cake (if you told me about a great story that was told through flashbacks and ambiguous hinting I'd tell you to get lost, but Kubera pulls it off great), but I'm not sure you can put one method over the other, as they require different situations, and both get the job done properly for that story.

 

The final factor I feel an emotional need to share my observations on is the way action sequences tie in to the plot and the emotions of the characters at the same time. In ToG, the way the Untrustworthy Room arc's game design fit the scenario of Viole taking the test alone vs choosing teammates + 8 people forming a team was clever in itself, and fit Love's hate of FUG; the way people acted towards Viole, and had their (Wangnan's) attitudes changed by necessity was climactic (and coincided with Wangnan interrupting the fight); the way everyone had a different strategy was realistic; the way the main group started to trust each other was endearing, and fit the broader theme (and was caused by the game scenario); did I mention ToG is my favorite comic? It doesn't have much action for action's sake, even in a universe where you need to fight to advance over 100 floors. And yet, when the weapons come out, you can lose yourself in the story and the action at the same time. I love that. 

 

Kubera is similar, although it is difficult to really get into the action, mostly because at least one of the sides is relatively unconcerned with their lives (freaking hax Nastika). This is also why story exposition via dialog can happen in the middle of a life and death struggle. I feel there is less of a connection with battle tactics and plot compared to ToG, but some strategy is present, and there is at least as much connection with the setting, as battle types and abilities are dependent on, among other things, race and congenital factors.

 

///Addition: As for plot overall, they differ in style of progression. Kubera seems to be one long continuous stream, with few interruptions or climaxes. ToG is more episodic, and the resolution of each arc really brings a feeling of change to the status quo. Kubera seems to be in the same status quo for long stretches at a time; for example, from the beginning of season two to Ch 58, there was no real change in the relationships of the characters, nor any advancing of the plot. They got items, but did nothing with them yet, so the reader was kind of left with the impression that the arc barely mattered. Most of Kubera is not quite like this, however. I feel a little more up and down reading ToG, arc beginning to arc end, than I feel reading Kubera; instead of up and down, I feel a creeping forward, then a sudden twist up, then an orientating small scamper back down and forward faster, then a resuming of the creeping, but at a slightly higher and higher position every 20 or so chapters. If this series can continue this until the climax it will be great, but I really feel that, despite the revelations, season 2 stopped the sudden twists up for awhile.

 

Thoughts? Without revealing too much, my next post will be a fun statistical analysis. (Yes I did just say that.) I call it: the MRGBR. Stay tuned!

///////////////////////

 

What makes Kubera different? Several things.

 

• Setting. Its world is so vast and intricately detailed. I am literally wowed by Currygom's imagination. Unlike so many series out there, the world actually makes sense in terms of logic. Things aren't simply what they are simply because they are; no, there's a logical explanation for it. The magic? It works on a mathematical system. The races? I can write books about their biology. And so on. There's so much, I can't even explain it all without writing a thesis.

 

I like your post, but how the hell is magic running on thinking about math and races that can breed with humans but not other Sura logical? XD

Edited by themantarays, 19 March 2014 - 12:55 PM.
Oops, spoilers.

[Mizura]

^ I guess he doesn't mean logical, but systematic and coherent. xD You don't pull magic spells out of your ass, or cast them with the Power of Friendship. There are systems to them. The mathematical base makes them somewhat closer to physics and engineering, except instead of electric cables and wind turbines, you visualize the system in your mind, then instead of electricity/wind, the power of the Gods flows through them. As for the races, there is a set history and biology. Kubera doesn't throw in random races just for the sake of decoration.
 
I completely agree that Tower of God is not an anti-Shounen, but a Super Shounen. That's why whenever I want to recommend webtoons in general, I'll always start with Tower of God, rarely with Kubera. Those reading Naruto, Bleach, One Piece etc. will feel right at home reading Tower of God, except Tower of God removes all the annoying things about Shounen (loudmouth Jesus protagonist, filler support cast, linear storylines, repetitive battles) and offers them something new within that framework (puzzling challenges, big prominence to the many conflicting factions etc.)
 
Kubera on the other hand... it really doesn't read like a Shounen. Or most Shoujo. I think Currygom once said that Kubera is a Shoujo in the style of Basara and Fushigi Yugi, so I guess it could be described that way, but it certainly isn't structured like "typical" Shoujo either. The reason I often hesitate to recommend Kubera to a Shounen-reading fan is because it really falls short by "traditional" Shounen criteria. Why's the main character not kicking ass yet? Where is the badass action? It's been over 150 chapters, why is the story moving so slow? Without the visible milestones of the main character powering up then beating up a boss opponent or two, gaining devoted followers along the way, it really seems like Kubera is going nowhere. Tower of God doesn't have endless gratuitous fights, however Shounen readers will immediately identify the tests as the alternative intermediate goals that are normally occupied with pure fighting. Kubera is read like a mystery, and trying to read it as a Shounen makes it as satisfying as reading a mystery novel as an action comic. D:
 
I should compare character portrayals one of these days. For a while I was miffed because Tower of God seemed to be adding characters too quickly, but by now I think it has built a pretty solid base for Wangnan's team, especially with little things like the small romance between Horyang and Goseng, stuff like that (really, I care that the support cast has their own lives). Kubera, Tower of God, and Cheese in the Trap all do a good job with their support cast in how they show that they have their own minds and lives (they're not there just so they can make the main character look good when he shows up).
 
As for blog stuff again: Currygom will likely reveal relevant information when it becomes important to understand it for the sake of the story. The interesting thing about her choice is that you can be pretty sure that just about everything she Does spell out is somehow important to the story. Of course, us fans are always greedy for more because the world is awesome, but oh well.

Edit: to add to the part themantarays added: yes, Kubera's story is like a stream. That's a very good way to describe it. Instead of a rollercoaster, it feels like taking a boat down the river. From time to time there are scary-looking rocks showing up, but the story in the end steered clear of them for the most part. So, "present-time" Kubera has been relatively tame (save for the past few chapters, where it felt like suddenly going over a cliff you didn't quite expect).

The weird part about this journey, though, is the surprising number of corpses you see floating by. They give a "okay, what's happening upstream, things are Way too calm right now..." feeling. Plus, from time to time, you can get a glimpse into the distance, and when that happens you usually see that your ride will take you through living hell. D: There's this sort of underlying tension. As I sometimes like to say, Kubera is like watching a bunch of kids having fun and partying on the road just before a car accident you know you'll happen. D':

Season 2 did feel slower than Season 1, or at least the end of Season 1 for me. In particular, waiting for the next chapter during the Water Channel part felt unbearable for me ("holy shit That's Yuta's mom?!"), and then the sudden revelation that he's the son of Kali really caught me off-guard. Plus, the explanation of the Primeval Gods suddenly put things a Lot into perspective for me. Asha's little explanation implied very clearly that what was happening was a huge deal that even the creators of the Universe got mixed up in. It wasn't just a little girl running around on a tiny planet hiding from a Sura or two, there is Much more than meets the eyes.

Recent chapters have been going really fast though, so I suspect that Currygom may have decided to use the same-ish pace in Season 2 as she did with Season 1, i.e. most of the season is exposition, then a big event around chapter 60-ish, then the big reveal at the end of the season. But you know, precisely because Currygom avoided most obstacles in the first 1.5 seasons, I suspect we'll take it that much harder when things really Do get bad. I mean, I was so sure Teo wouldn't be killed, and stayed in shock for several days when she really was killed. Even if she gets revived, I suspect the humans won't be having such an easy time for long. We may have been lulled into a false sense of security.

Edited by Mizura, 05 November 2013 - 12:49 PM.

[smthFishy]

Hey forum mates, but doesn't ToG strike you as rather negative? I mean, it doesn't even look anything like a typical shonen like Soul Cartel... doesn't it trouble you that it describes a sick world so brilliantly? And even more so, that young people actually like it?