98 replies to this topic

[BehindTheLighT]

Are you talking about fantasy genre or in general?

[themantarays]

Then comes the foreshadowing, both of them use it very well, but in  very different ways: in ToG it is often visual and difficult to see, while in this Kubera is also more similar to a novel.

 

I agree; I'll go one step farther and say Kubera is sort of like Ender's Game (iirc) in that it has that little snippet of insight at the beginning of some chapters.

[akadeadpool]

Just finishing Kubera today and i have to say i just have found equal rank #1 comic with TOG, two best comics i have ever read (including mangas and excluding novels). To compare the two things is just too difficult as each has different factors that made their success. Many have listed their strong points so let me burst out my inner fandom.

 

OMG!!! After having grasped the world of Kubera, i would throw hundreds of dollar for a video game that can integrate the magic system of Kubera and position system of TOG. And then i feel like a coincidence that the way i approach Kubera is the same way as TOG(reading a few chapters, they look boring, lets drop it=>after some time, being mentioned about their popularity, pick up again and regret dropping it before).

 

So comparing Kubera to other comics, i would say Kubera outdoes others in aspect of character representation. Currygom has brilliant skill in alternateing between past, present and future of a character and the way to approach it is also different (showing through memory, mention by other characters or narrated in the beginning of chapters like the case of Leez) I love most characters Currygome introduce, even bitch like Sagara. Others more or less draw a clear line between bad and good, like forcing readers to like the good and hate the bad.

 

I have no complain about the story telling but the foreshadowing through prediction is making feel unease with the future of the main char, it is like the author is trying to prepare the readers with mental wealthfare to prevent emotional breakdown or something. This aspect i think is done better in TOG is scattering clues of the upcoming events throughout the arc and when the event happens and people point out the clues, i can only say "wow/ah" or similarly.

 

For art, i dont know about art critics much but i read similar complain about TOG too though it seems fine to my standard. I think the art is just a medium for the author to represent her/his work so as long as it is not eye-hurting to look at the comic, i think it is fine. Even Currygom still knows how to draw boobs while SIU cant.

[Mizura]

It'd be hilarious to see an accurate representation of the Kubera magic system in a game though.

Game: *to cast the spell, please solve this equation: [insert equation]*

Player: °Д°

 

Kubera and Tower of God are strong on different aspects, they're two of my favorite series but for different reasons. ^^

You've made an interesting point about Tower of God scattering clues to the future though.

Tower of God scatters clues as to what's about to happen.

Kubera scatters clues as to what happened in the past. Kubera does it in such a way that you become more and more confused as to what is supposed to happen. xD

[Random-Webtoon-Fan]

It'd be hilarious to see an accurate representation of the Kubera magic system in a game though.
Game: *to cast the spell, please solve this equation: [insert equation]*
Player: °Д°

Game for asians and geeks. lol.
 

Kubera and Tower of God are strong on different aspects, they're two of my favorite series but for different reasons. ^^
You've made an interesting point about Tower of God scattering clues to the future though.
Tower of God scatters clues as to what's about to happen.
Kubera scatters clues as to what happened in the past. Kubera does it in such a way that you become more and more confused as to what is supposed to happen. xD

I like to think

Kubera : Who is fighting for what? ..Cliffhanger to leave you curious!

Tower of God : Who is on which side? ..Betrayal to confuse you!

[akadeadpool]

It'd be hilarious to see an accurate representation of the Kubera magic system in a game though.

Game: *to cast the spell, please solve this equation: [insert equation]*

Player: °Д°

 

Kubera and Tower of God are strong on different aspects, they're two of my favorite series but for different reasons. ^^

You've made an interesting point about Tower of God scattering clues to the future though.

Tower of God scatters clues as to what's about to happen.

Kubera scatters clues as to what happened in the past. Kubera does it in such a way that you become more and more confused as to what is supposed to happen. xD

Ran Sairofe disagree with the gameplay!

 

Actually what i mean with Kubera magic system is the birth attribute. Most game tends to force players to follow a linear skill build (so like i choose fire then you have to go with fire till the end or else your char sucks). In Kubera, it is shown that having triple attribute doesnt automatically guarantee victory over magician with 3 different attribute.

 

But i really Lol with the magician first test, i couldnt solve those in 10s, all those magicians must be beast (beyond Asian level)

So

Game: *to cast the spell, please solve this equation in 10 second: [insert equation]* (fixed)

Player: °Д°

Edited by akadeadpool, 07 December 2013 - 05:56 AM.

[Mizura]

Recently I finished reading Basara! I never managed to get far before because the first few chapters absolutely swamp you with tragedy, and I didn't exactly relish the idea of reading 27 volumes more of that. However, I'm a big fan of another work by the author (7 Seeds), and with Kubera sending its characters to hell, I was like "Bah, I read Kubera! What's a bit of tragedy?" and finally read it. It turns out that only the first few volumes are That tragic. It's less dramatic later on. >_>;;

 

A reason I was interested in Basara is because Currygom once said that Kubera was a Shoujo like Fushigi Yugi and Basara. From that, I've deduced that Basara must have certainly influenced Kubera, and I was really curious to see how Basara could have influenced Kubera while I was reading it, as well as compare where they differed.

 

And I did find some very interesting (well, in my opinion anyway) aspects! It turns out that Basara is quite different from Kubera, but I definitely see a few possible areas of influence. Basara spoilers up ahead, for those who haven't read it.

 

1. Fate

 

The notion of Fate pervades Basara. Sarasa and Shuri have their fates predicted at birth, and that in turn influences their upbringing. There is even a fate-seeing sage that foresees things along the way. This could have been Currygom's inspiration for Insight! Of course, Currygom's insight system is a bit different. Instead of fate as an inevitable force, Insight is more of a tool used by the Gods to achieve their goal. Still, in both cases, prediction is a strong guiding force in the story.

 

2. Tragic food lovers

 

Shuri killed Sarasa's brother and destroyed her village, and those with Sarasa in turn killed Shuri's right-hand man. Yippee! They meet randomly and fall in love with each other without knowing the truth about one another for quite a while, and in the meantime try to kill each other. And what do we have in Kubera? Candidate #1 is the True culprit behind the destruction of Leez' village, and Candidate #2 is the brother of the one who did the blowing up. In both cases, future confrontations are predicted.

 

Of course, Kubera handles things a bit differently. Basara has extra love interests, but at its core it's pretty monogamous. You can tell the 'main' couple from a mile away, though you don't need to tell from that far because it happens nearly immediately. Kubera has two candidates, and it's even more confusing because both romances are pretty underdeveloped right now. Okay, Yuta wants to eat Leez. Does that even qualify? D:

 

Yuta also isn't the one who wronged Leez: his brother is. This may not sound like much, but it changes the fundamental dynamics. Plus, Basara's romance is... symmetrical? Both Shuri and Sarasa don't realize the truth about one another, and they both find out the truth at the same time. They are also in the symmetrical position of wanting to kill one another because they have both wronged the other somehow. In Kubera's case, God Kubera knew the truth all along, while Yuta finds things out without Leez realizing yet. For now, Leez hasn't done anything to either of them, really. Again, it may not sound like much, but it changes the fundamental dynamics. Oh yeah, and Yuta wants to eat Leez. No equivalence with Basara there.

 

But both series definitely play up the tragic romance (?).

 

3. Extremely developed support cast

 

This really surprised me with Basara! Despite reading many reviews beforehand, for some reason I thought Sarasa and Shuri were running around in a desert. In fact, they travel all throughout Japan, meeting whole groups of people. I should have expected this since I've read 7 Seeds. And boy, there are so many people in Basara, and they are all unique, with their own personality, own backgrounds, own issues even (some more developed than others). And (save for a few perhaps), most of them are not villains, just people with their own convictions.

 

I actually haven't come across that many series that flesh out such a large side cast in such a thorough manner (-Especially- Shoujo), so I definitely believe that this influenced Kubera. Perhaps this is where she got the notion of, "each character is the protagonist of his own life."

 

Now, the Basara and Kubera side casts are still structured quite differently. Basara's side cast has deeper 'roots' somehow: they are more strongly connected to their area and to whatever is happening over there. Conversely, you don't see much of the everyday life and issues of Kubera's side cast, but they are more crazily inter-connected. There is family drama on Basara's side, but not Quite the pile of mess you get in Kubera. Save for a few key characters, most of the characters fall neatly into one or another camp. In Kubera, instead of neatly grouped up armies, you have a whole bunch of individuals with their own agendas, and you have no clue what the true agenda of Any of the character is.

 

4. World-building

 

Both series involves traveling to a different number of regions. That's about it for similarities though. If I had to say it...

- Basara does a better job of world-design 'density', fleshing it up with a number of local themes including governance, trade, public works etc.

- Kubera concentrate more effort on well.... race-building I'd say?

 

Part of it is due to how the stories are structured. Sarasa accumulates whole groups of allies as she goes, whereas Asha keeps a small core team. Because of this, in Basara, the author takes the time to flesh out the local themes, as well as fill the places with lots of people. Even though Basara is located in Japan, there is a suitable sense of scale. Rather than reinventing the wheel, the author cleverly incorporates real-world elements to great effect.

 

Kubera on the other hand often feels kind of empty. They travel to one city to the next, but she keeps the specific traits of each hidden away in her blog. :\ Most nameless characters aren't even shown or drawn. This concentrates the story on a core cast. A large one, but still, it doesn't feel like entire armies are involved or anything. Willarv is a whole planet, but the action could have believably taken place over a tiny area. There are some interesting tidbits here and there, like the magic system, but that's it.

 

Part of it is for the sake of atmosphere: I suspect Currygom Purposely doesn't want to overwhelm readers by getting them attached to an area or a group of people, then showing the full extent of the ensuing massacres (there certainly were plenty of opportunities: the Sura attacks against Atera and Kalibloom, the Taraka clan attacking the Gandharva clan, the Gods attacking the Ananta clan and the Garuda clan attacking it after Ananta was gone). Basara makes sure that you see all the corpses lying around, and for that it fills up the areas. It's a pity, I would have liked to see denser world-building in Kubera.

 

But on the other hand, that's because Currygom concentrates her world-building on the race mechanisms and the overall plot. Basara makes use of stuff that exists, whereas I'm really surprised by the world-building Currygom has created (mostly in terms of inter-racial dynamics) and how well she incorporates the revealed components into her plot.

 

5. Atmosphere

 

Okay, the two series really differ here, at least in terms of order. Basara throws the worst at you from the start so you won't ever mistake it for anything But a tragedy. But then it progresses into something different. The author of Basara is like the Judo expert of storytelling: the tragic components are then flipped into some pretty impressive character development.

 

Currygom, for whatever reason, chose to present its story as a comedy at first. Sure, Leez' village is blown up, but nobody died, right? Everything will work out once the misunderstandings are cleared, right? Except then you realize from the flashbacks that geez, the things that happened in the recent past were kind of really extremely bad. And then you realize that the future is looking even More kind of shitty really extremely bad. Of course, Basara is over so you don't have to suffer the tension, whereas you don't know how Kubera will develop, but for now at least, Basara had core conflicts but gradually paved a way out of it, whereas Kubera is paving a red carpet to Hell.

 

6. Plot

 

The fundamental differences in the world dynamics make the plots seemingly quite different, as far as we can tell anyway. Basara's world is made of humans. Humans can work with other humans. Humans can forgive other humans. They're all humans right? But the Kubera world has racial dynamics similar to predator-prey ones. You don't work with food. And forgiving immortal beigns that treat you like bugs to be exterminated isn't exactly going to lead you to a happy life. The racial dynamics in the Kubera world were fucked up from creation, and it kind of doesn't appear that forgiving and working together will be the solution.

 

Basara, in fact, is about system reform. Topple the monarchy and slavery system, replace it by something nicer to all humans. Most humans can rally behind that, and rally they do. For now, at least, Leez is really not shaping up to be a reformer of any kind. D: Well, the series is still far from over, so who knows, there might be some development in that direction (I would be kind of curious to see how they overcome the messed-up racial dynamics though), but for now it doesn't seem to be the case.

 

By the way, in Basara, Sarasa and Shuri oppose one another, but ultimately their goals end up aligning: creating a better system. For now at least, the goals of the various characters seem all over the place, and nowhere close to aligning. Wtf? D:

 

7. The main characters and their fate

 

And, finally, the main protagonists. Let's see, Shuri is a total jerk who eventually realizes that he was a total jerk, and decides to start over. As far as we can tell, there is no equivalence with either Yuta nor God Kubera. Yuta was just looking for his brother, while God Kubera... hell if we know what He's up to, not reform and atonement, that's for sure. Well, maybe some atonement, but not by political reform, nope.

 

Sarasa and Leez are completely different too. x'D Sarasa is competent for the most part, though for a big chunk of the series she does have a nasty tendency to break down at crucial moments (argh). She fixes that eventually though, phew, and she acts strong most of the time. Leez, for the most part, is portrayed as a total happy and oblivious idiot. >_> But at times you realize that it's a front. Still, Leez is nowhere near the leader type. Sarasa isn't perfect and instead have people flock to her. Leez, uh, one-way express to solitary hell apparently.

 

So for now, the main characters really do seem quite different.

 

Conclusion

 

We definitely see some very interesting potential sources of influence from Basara: the notion of fate, tragic lovers, and an extremely well-developed support cast. However, the fundamental dynamics of Currygom's world are quite different from Basara's, so the inspirations she got from it were definitely adapted to her own world. It would be interesting to see whether Kubera will have some of Basara's overarching plot concepts later on. Do the Sura set aside their differences to get rid of Leez, for example? (...) What will Leez' true role be?

 

One of the aspects I haven't seen at all is Currygom's unique narrative style. I still don't have a clue where she could have gotten the inspiration. Thanks to readers from India, we know that the dynamics between Gods and Sura was likely inspired by Hindu mythology, and we've seen a bunch of possible influences from Basara, but I don't think I've read other fictional works that mix up scenes from the past and future in such a way to create such a confusing and maddening mystery (by the way, Basara is a lot of things, but not so much a mystery. Some characters' loyalties are questionable, and there's some plotting in the background, but it's mostly clear what each side is aiming at).

 

Food for thought.

Edited by Mizura, 20 February 2014 - 05:23 PM.

[smthFishy]

Waaaaat?! Shuri... is a guy?!! Basara is now officially on my hate-list.

I read the some pages ... it certainly isn't bad but I feel that the story feels like the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" or such. It has more of that dreamy feel. Whereas in Kubera, I get a much deeper sense of realism. Dunno. 

[cyborgmosquito]

but I don't think I've read other fictional works that mix up scenes from the past and future in such a way to create such a confusing and maddening mystery

 

This reminded me a little of the TV series LOST, which used flashbacks, flashforwards, and flashsideways in it's story.

[Mizura]

Oooh, I've never watched Lost. Do the similarities in narrative structure go further, or does it end there?

 

@ Old Man River: hah! I didn't even notice about the names for some reason. xD As for it being dreamy... actually, Basara is a mostly realistic fantasy series. You don't have any magic or such, instead there's (old-ish) technology, themes like irrigation and journalism, and stuff like that. The only 'fantasy' part is the talk about fate and the occasional well-placed coincidence, really.

 

The art style takes some getting used to at first, but I already got used to that through the author's other series, 7 Seeds. The thing about this author is that the first few volumes may not be a good indication of what the rest of the series is like, because the author likes to pile up everything that's bad and dramatic in the front, before using it to build up something much more impressive. For example, the romance in Basara seems forced at first, but it develops quite impressively in later interactions.

[Fran]

Oooh, I've never watched Lost. Do the similarities in narrative structure go further, or does it end there?

 

Don't watch Lost, it's the kind of series that starts awesome and then the couple last seasons suck, and has probably the worst ending in tv history.

 

Just avoid it xD

 

- Back on topic -

 

Currygom's character development and portrait is way above average, the art style for some reason conveys a lot of feels as well. Making you really care for their stories/lives, which results in your heart aching a lot. 

 

Also, the rules of the universe(s) are very interesting, Gods/Suras/Humans/Magic/Items.

Edited by Fran, 01 March 2014 - 03:32 AM.

[BehindTheLighT]

Don't watch Lost, it's the kind of series that starts awesome and then the couple last seasons suck, and has probably the worst ending in tv history.

 

Just avoid it xD

 

Listen to him  T.T

[Mizura]

^ Whoa, okay. I won't watch it. D:

[LovelyLuvLuv]

read basara, thought it was ok, but way too predictable and boring. sigh. also i didn't like the female lead. do notice some of the similarities though.

[flowsthead]

^ Whoa, okay. I won't watch it. D:

 

No, don't listen to them. Lost was fine if you forget about the answers. It's a show that posits a lot of interesting questions that it isn't interested in answering and then because of fan pressure answers nearly all of them by the last episode but in unsatisfactory ways. It sounds like I'm saying all negative things, but it still has its great moments throughout. It's a good show for character study, and the way the narrative develops over flashbacks/flashforwards/etc. is interesting in itself. It's a unique show, and I think it's worth it to watch at least once. It's capable enough to have a vacillatingly sympathetic villain which is difficult for network TV. There are enough compelling characters throughout all of the seasons for the show to be worthwhile. I would tell you to at least watch the first season.

 

And even if the last season "sucks", saying it's the worst ending in TV history ignores hundreds of other more terrible shows, and the truly awful like Dexter.

[themantarays]

Try to watch the version with the little info boxes that pop up on the bottom that remind you wtf has been happening and why something is important. I only saw some of the first two seasons, and they were suuuuper helpful.

[BehindTheLighT]

flowstead did you follow it from the first episode?

[smthFishy]

I think some of the romance in Kubera, like Agni with a zombie Brilith reminds me of the romance in American Ghost Jack, another great love story. I'm a bit sick, I know. 

Edited by Old Man River, 02 March 2014 - 12:02 AM.

[flowsthead]

flowstead did you follow it from the first episode?

 

I watched it from the pilot up until some point in Season 2, dropped it for reasons unknown to me, then picked it back up again sometime in Season 3 or 4 when I rewatched all of it up to that point and watched it week to week from that point on until the end. I went through all of the same frustrations as everyone else, and in the moment the show was super frustrating for not answering any of its questions, but looking back on it I got a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction out of it. I think the backlash towards Lost has been overblown. It was a good show.

[smthFishy]

Meh... if you want to feel Lost, get in line to apply for a cross-state license registration at Department of Motor Vehicles.