98 replies to this topic

[flowsthead]

Hey forum mates, but doesn't ToG strike you as rather negative? I mean, it doesn't even look anything like a typical shonen like Soul Cartel... doesn't it trouble you that it describes a sick world so brilliantly? And even more so, that young people actually like it?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Trouble me in what way? Negative in what way? What exactly is the issue with young people liking it? You're going to have to be more specific since I don't know what exactly you have a problem with.

[smthFishy]

It's a matter of aesthetics, and there's no right or wrong there. That being said, I say ToG is similar to No Country for Old Men. There's definitely a very bleak feeling that pervades through the work.

 

Make no mistake, ToG is brilliant in its depiction of a very sick world. The stories deal with people and places gone awry. The people are maladjusted, perverted, insane, suicidal, homicidal, where evil triumph. Its like watching Michelangelo's depiction of the Final Judgment of the Sistine chapel, or the final triptych of the Bosch's Garden of Heavenly Delights.  It's awesomely painful. I suppose one can argue that ToG is a meditation of those evils, but I'm not sure if can succeed, especially for the young readers.

Edited by 동사서독, 06 November 2013 - 03:58 AM.

[Mizura]

Well, I guess the way we use "Shounen" is not very accurate. Shounen refers to a demographics, not a style. Shingeki no Kyojin is a Shounen too, believe it or not (though it targets older teens, not younger ones). If Shingeki no Kyojin can be a Shounen, I don't see why Tower of God cannot. However, we were using the term "Shounen" in an approximate way, as in "readers who enjoy action/adventure Shounen manga like Naruto/One Piece/Bleach will likely consider that Tower of God fills a similar reading niche."

 

Naruto was also pretty dark early on. Zabuza and Haku died, after all. It's only afterwards that it started this weird situation where fewer and fewer "good" people die (that we can see. I mean c'mon, Pain reviving everyone?). :S

 

Speaking of dark, I'm sure many will disagree, but I often find Kubera's world to be darker than Tower of God's. Tower of God's world is one of harsh competition, but since everyone is equally violent (for the most part), there is a sort of numbing effect. That may be why Rachel's betrayal stood out more, though: because Baam did not yet belong to that system, and he was so innocent and underserving of that betrayal. The betrayal broke his heart, and our hearts were broken along with his. By contrast, most other betrayals are just "damn, that sucks," because it is the norm, not the exception.

 

Currygom however always managed to surprise me with the sheer diversity of shitty, "I wouldn't want to be them D: " existences she comes up with. There is a fundamentally asymmetric relation between the races, yet she manages to make all those existences suck in different ways:

• The Nastika Kings are the most powerful existences in the Universe. You'd think that's awesome, but in exchange they are not allowed to feel strong emotions, instead they spend their time repressing their feelings, and they have no-one to rely on. Gandharva dropped the Way of the King, but what did that bring him? After a fleeting moment of happiness, he has since lost his power, his dignity, his family, friends and even his clan, and because he was happy for a while, he now feels the full intensity of the despair. He can't even pray for the safety of his daughter.


• The Gods may as well be among the most miserable beings in the Universe, their immortality being a double-edged sword that prevents them from ever escaping the pain and guilt accumulating over their long existence. At least Sura have the Possibility of escape through death, just like humans have hope through prayer. And they are so much weaker than the Nastika. I suspect that in D0, when the humans sided with the Gods, Gandharva blew up the planet that Varuna was protecting (Gresvan), and I doubt she was very happy about that.


• The Vritra clan avoided extinction and gained a pointless, emotionless existence. If by a miracle they do fall in love with a human, the child would cut short the life of the mother, and the human would live a short existence anyway. Taksaka killed his once closest friend and protege for the sake of Ian, but only gained a lifetime of regret (and that's a very long life he has ahead of him) that he couldn't do anything for her, and maybe even likely doomed her to Hell.


• Taraka is an existence hated by all, but her son was the one person she could love and dedicate everything to. But it turned out that it was all a lie, now all she has left is an eternal existence where she has to live with the fact, while still hated by all. When Taraka was about to leave Yuta, she acted as though she was alright, but her smile felt so forced, as though she was preventing herself from breaking down crying.


• I was really struck by what happened to the Halfs during the Cataclysm. Before that, they were living normal, happy lives with the humans. But what could be worse than losing all those you love, save to wake up one day and to realize that you were the one who killed them? The have to live on with the guilt and fear that they may turn again against their loved ones, and suffer the hate and scorn of those they've hurt. For the most part, the Halfs we've seen seem pretty well adjusted, but it must have taken a lot of bravery to be able to face the next day.


• The humans are the best off among this lot, somehow. They can't be too happy to be sandwiched between two OP races though. Still, the Cataclysm sucked. On Willarv, they had to worry that the planet would be blown up outright, And they had to worry about being killed by the rampaging Sura first, And they had to deal against the Halfs that are their family and friends. Wtf is this ridiculous pile up? The worst thing is that it likely had nothing to do with them, they were just caught up in the conflicts.


• Future Leez too, will find herself in an existence where she's forced to survive, but would rather have died.

Currygom does an excessively good job of portraying her characters as people with emotions. Even when their existences aren't violent, there's an underlying sense of weariness and dread that strikes me a lot more than the occasional violence. They have no outlet, no escape from this dreary existence, sometimes not even death, just the obligation to keep on living without a clear goal ahead of them. I often wonder if Visnu didn't make both the Nastika and Gods precisely to give them a half-assed reason to keep on living: for the Nastika, a reason not to let their guards down and lose their one life, and for the Gods, the nearly unattainable goal to kill Nastika, but a goal nonetheless.

Edited by Mizura, 06 November 2013 - 05:21 AM.

[smthFishy]

Speaking of dark, I'm sure many will disagree, but I often find Kubera's world to be darker than Tower of God's. Tower of God's world is one of harsh competition, but since everyone is equally violent (for the most part), there is a sort of numbing effect.

Agreed 100%. That's the market economy of most capitalist systems: the undertaking of class warfare under the guise of the gospel of efficiency, making the regulars kill off one another. In the words of the financier Jay Gould, during the so called Golden Age of Capitalism, "I can hire half of the working class to kill the other half."  The world of Kubera is dark, but not necessarily sick. ToG's world is very sick.

 

For the reasons that you described above, I agree that Kubera not be classified as shonen. So what kind of demographics do you think ToG would be a suitable target? Unless I'm mistaken shonen is the Japanese term for Youth. The demographics for youth is say 14 - 22, high school to college? Like you say, people would need to spend sometime in the work life to truly appreciate what's out there. I wonder if they're looking at ToG too innocently that they can find it interesting or captivating. At best, they might be in for some surprises. At worst, they might have already grown numb and used to it.

Edited by 동사서독, 06 November 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Mizura]

^ Don't forget that Asian youths have hellish and competitive exam systems. xD It doesn't hurt that Asian youths consider that the rest of their entire lives will depend on how they do at school, no catching up later when they've started working. Tower of God should be right up their alley, minus the killing of course.

 

After that they have to deal with stuff like oh... unemployment, which is an entirely different beast.

 

In Japan, Shounen is apparently typically used for youths until the end of compulsory education (about age 16?). In manga I've read, the term "Shounen" has certainly been used to designate boys until an age. I typically think of them as "younger than adults."

Edited by Mizura, 06 November 2013 - 06:45 AM.

[nicabob]

First things first, please excuse any grammar and/or spelling mistakes I may make; I am very drunk and it is way past my bedtime. Thanks

I absolutely adore Kubera and why I love Kubera is simple. I love the story that Currygom has written so far. In my opinion TOG can't even begin to compare to the complexity of Kubera. 

 

I am a hardened veteran of super complex and convoluted storytelling. After reading and rereading the 'Wheel of Time' series written by Robert Jordan (finished by Brandon Sanderson after Robert  Jordan's death) for 9 years I gained the "super human" ability to read and retain seemingly unimportant details (that turn out to be super important). In my opinion no comic, manga, manhwa, webcomic or book series (yes I'm looking at you Game of Thrones, you over-rated POS) comes close to TOG and I find TOG infantile compared to Kubera. Kubera is the only story I would put on par with the one in The Wheel of Time. The main reason I like Kubera is simply because I absolutely love almost everything about Kubera ,I love the rich history of the Kubera universe, I am intrigued by the mystery of the 'Power of the Name', I adore the main character (and all of the so called "side characters"). The only problem I have with Kubera is that I have to wait a week for a new chapter. That said I waited 9 years for my favorite book series to finish so patience is without a doubt one of my better virtues ;P

[salvatore]

i really do like kubera but compared to other comics especially tower of god  .............  i am big fan of Tower of God and there is no manhwa/manga i've read in my life makes me to anticipate every next chapter . kubera maybe every once in a while gives me the kind of feeling while tower god is always.

[Mizura]

I am a hardened veteran of super complex and convoluted storytelling. After reading and rereading the 'Wheel of Time' series written by Robert Jordan (finished by Brandon Sanderson after Robert  Jordan's death) for 9 years I gained the "super human" ability to read and retain seemingly unimportant details (that turn out to be super important).

 

lol, hats off to you! I only managed to keep up with Kubera after painstakingly compiling the equivalent of a 25-page reference thread. And when I re-read, I still notice stuff I missed. Wtf?

 

@salvatore: That's fine, it's a difference of what you like. In Tower of God, you anticipate what's going to show up ahead, whereas Kubera as I said is structured like a mystery, you try to dig up the past (which so far is over 80% of the story).

 

I would say Kubera seems like a pretty average, if confusing story upon first read. Definitely, the first time through Kubera < the first time through Tower of God.

But for me, the third time through Kubera > the third time through Tower of God.

(I said third time because the second time is Still confusing. I've been through most chapters a lot more than 3 times though)

 

What you said about Tower of God vs Kubera, I feel the other way round. Tower of God has been feeling slow for me recently, though the last few chapters generated as much excitement as a good Kubera chapter for me. Everytime I see a flashback in Kubera, I jump on it and try to revise entire timelines and histories, and from there I try to directly and indirectly try to guess the motivations of the characters, which is a really hard task because all their actions seem contradictory.

 

The thing is, I suspect several of the major players in the series, namely God Kubera and Asha, view the future as a tree of possibilities, not a single course of action. That probably explains their often contradictory behavior: they don't know which course to take, because they are uncertain of the outcome in each one of them. So apart from picking apart the past, I find myself having to try to map out their theoretical choices, how far they can see into each and what they Think of each (are they willing to make such a cruel decision?).

 

Of course those trees of possibilities, especially for God Kubera, affect many different factions in all sorts of ways, and all of them are trying to achieve their own desired but unknown goals (at least we know what ToG's factions are after, we even know the means -Baam-, it's just the specifics that aren't clear). The resulting mess in my head is glorious!

[themantarays]

Main likes and dislikes of ToG and Kubera:

 

Chapter to chapter, ToG is imho the best thing, or tied, I've ever read. Every arc in ToG feels like the arc of other comics die-hard fans reread over and over. The main thing I dislike about ToG is that there's too much possibility of "it happened that way because she saw it would happen that way" predicting the future stuff (at least, there's too much possibility while it's still unexplained). Kubera could also fall into this trap, but I get the feeling it won't because several future-divining characters have been shown to get it wrong, or not be able to see it, and the one almost omniscient character was apparently blindsided by the major event in the series.

 

Overall, Kubera has (at least it appears to have) tied for the best overall plot I've ever read. The plot gets thicker at the same rate it gets more interesting - that's a real feat for such a thick plot! The main thing I dislike about Kubera is the idea that, if we knew what the big ol' secret was, I'd basically stop caring. There aren't really many little secrets, and it might be a little easy to predict the plot if we knew what motivated the characters. ToG might fall into the same trap, but I think it wouldn't because there are multiple, apparently unrelated mysteries in the plot, setting, and backgrounds of characters, and you'd really have to spoil a lot of ToG to ruin the read. Plus, there's no way you're predicting the content of the next few chapters, no matter where you are.

 

If ToG had (or turns out to have) the same plot complexity as Kubera, I would (or will) worship it as my savior. If Kubera had the same arc emotional rise and fall as ToG, I'd rank it as my favorite by far.

 

 

One last thing; don't lynch me, but I feel that Currygom isn't as adventurous in her drawing style as SIU. Objectively, she draws her characters well and consistently (SIU's character designs did that thing where the artist gets better at drawing as the series progresses, so certain characters seem strange on a reread of season 1), but they seem to be the same angles all the time, and the coloring is rather simple. It seems very polished, verses the rough around the edges style of ToG. SIU takes risks, and seems to change his drawing style every few chapters (he does have an assistant though). He does fail sometimes (he just can't seem to get his shoes on the right feet - literally), but it just captures the vast feel of ToG so well. ToG also is more interesting in what he seems to draw, such as the landscapes and background people. Plus, Curygom just can't seem to pull off a subtle dramatic angle just right. ToG has an advantage in that basically anything he wants to draw can be attributed to the strange setting, but that's part of why comics are more about fantasy and non-humans. If Kubera was as interesting to look at - not read, but look at - as ToG, I'd rank Kubera above Black Lagoon, and maybe ToG.

[flowsthead]

I absolutely adore Kubera and why I love Kubera is simple. I love the story that Currygom has written so far. In my opinion TOG can't even begin to compare to the complexity of Kubera. 

 

I am a hardened veteran of super complex and convoluted storytelling. After reading and rereading the 'Wheel of Time' series written by Robert Jordan (finished by Brandon Sanderson after Robert  Jordan's death) for 9 years I gained the "super human" ability to read and retain seemingly unimportant details (that turn out to be super important). In my opinion no comic, manga, manhwa, webcomic or book series (yes I'm looking at you Game of Thrones, you over-rated POS) comes close to TOG and I find TOG infantile compared to Kubera. Kubera is the only story I would put on par with the one in The Wheel of Time. The main reason I like Kubera is simply because I absolutely love almost everything about Kubera ,I love the rich history of the Kubera universe, I am intrigued by the mystery of the 'Power of the Name', I adore the main character (and all of the so called "side characters"). The only problem I have with Kubera is that I have to wait a week for a new chapter. That said I waited 9 years for my favorite book series to finish so patience is without a doubt one of my better virtues ;P

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but you need to read more books. Long books with many characters does not equal complexity. I've read 11 of the Wheel of Time books, and those aren't complex books. The plot is pretty straightforward. I can't remember 90% of the characters, but seeing as most of them are archetypes and one dimensional, I'm not missing much. Both Kubera and Tower of God are much better about creating interesting and varied characters than Robert Jordan was in the Wheel of Time.

 

Maybe we're working with different definitions of complexity, or maybe it's fair to say that complexity can be applied to different things. Certainly Wheel of Time has a lot of characters, a lot of different factions, and hints at a complicated history. But I would argue that the types of characters that populate the world and the plot progression is fairly simple. The magic system is relatively complex, but it's capitalized on inconsistently. There is also little moral complexity to the Wheel of Time. For the most part, there are very clear good guy and bad guy camps. In terms of characters and morality, TOG and Kubera outdo Wheel of Time by a lot. Plot-wise....I haven't decided. I think Kubera and Tower of God have their interesting and surprising moments, but nothing has been too unexpected and I don't think the plots are difficult to follow. Then again, I don't think most plots are difficult to follow, and the ones that are, are either bad or purposefully obfuscating (like the films Primer or Upstream Color).

 

Either way, Wheel of Time is just....not good.

[Mizura]

^ He's talking about the "super complex and convoluted storytelling" though, not the complexity of the characters. ^^; You talk about the plot progression, but Kubera's plot progression is fairly straightforward too. Even if you miss 80% of hints, the story will eventually make things clearer and clearer, and you'll get the whole story eventually.

 

I haven't read Wheel of Time, but I've looked it up quickly, and saw people complaining that it puts clues way too far from where "they're supposed to be used" (i.e. some clue about a person will be in another book), so yeah, that sounds like a "problem" Kubera has...

 

There's something I find nice about the comparison, in any case: nicabob basically said that despite the series being over, he still likes to re-read it. That's pretty hopeful for me. I'd be pretty sad if by the end of the story, and once everything is revealed, the story loses any re-read value. That's the case of too many "mystery" Shounen: once you know the ending, it's really not worth re-reading anymore, especially if the grand reveal is disappointing. I guess convoluted storytelling makes reading hard the first time, but increases re-read value once the series is finished?

Edited by Mizura, 08 November 2013 - 01:23 AM.

[flowsthead]

^ He's talking about the "super complex and convoluted storytelling" though, not the complexity of the characters. ^^; You talk about the plot progression, but Kubera's plot progression is fairly straightforward too. Even if you miss 80% of hints, the story will eventually make things clearer and clearer, and you'll get the whole story eventually.

 

I haven't read Wheel of Time, but I've looked it up quickly, and saw people complaining that it puts clues way too far from where "they're supposed to be used" (i.e. some clue about a person will be in another book), so yeah, that sounds like a "problem" Kubera has...

 

There's something I find nice about the comparison, in any case: nicabob basically said that despite the series being over, he still likes to re-read it. That's pretty hopeful for me. I'd be pretty sad if by the end of the story, and once everything is revealed, the story loses any re-read value. That's the case of too many "mystery" Shounen: once you know the ending, it's really not worth re-reading anymore, especially if the grand reveal is disappointing. I guess convoluted storytelling makes reading hard the first time, but increases re-read value once the series is finished?

 

Nicabob is the first person I have met that thinks the Wheel of Time has re-read value, so I don't know what to say that. And as far as clues and foreshadowing goes, I don't care about that stuff as much as you guys seem to. They don't enhance my enjoyment of the story, and I don't really care for crafting theories on what will happen next. I much more enjoy analyzing what has already happened in the text, rather than thinking about what might happen later. So small things that become relevant later are neat, but not really what I'm looking for in a story.

 

As far as re-reading goes, I don't worry about that as long as the quality is there. Tsubasa Chronicle had so many plot twists and foreshadowing and shadowy people that after the first read through I thought it would be way less interesting the second time around knowing what happens. But since I gave myself a good amount of time in between read throughs, I actually loved it just as much the second time. Kubera is plotted well enough that I'm pretty sure no matter what happens, I'll enjoy a second read through of the story.

[Mizura]

I see. Different tastes. I'm surprised you do like Kubera then, because for me the puzzle aspects of Kubera is one of the things I like most about it. :S

I always did like jigsaw puzzles as a kid...

[flowsthead]

I see. Different tastes. I'm surprised you do like Kubera then, because for me the puzzle aspects of Kubera is one of the things I like most about it. :S

I always did like jigsaw puzzles as a kid...

 

I think well written characters drive most of the stories I like. You can throw any type of stupid plot at well structured characters and it will be thoroughly enjoyable. Of course, a better plot would be better, but it isn't necessary. Kubera has great characters and so far an interesting plot. The only real big weakness for me is the art, and even then it's not so bad that it detracts, it just often doesn't add anything beyond a general mood of melancholy.

 

I find it much more difficult to enjoy a story in which I don't love at least some of the characters.

[Mizura]

I've actually pondered once on the issue of what makes a story popular, and I've deduced that as long as several things are done Very well, any single aspect can be overlooked by a lot of people, even characters (though it takes a Whole lot to compensate for poor characters, as they are our windows and guides to the rest of the story). I mean, most of the characters of Lord of the Rings are flat as boards (save for a hobbit or two), but people flocked to the fantasy setting he's created. I've also heard that the Da Vinci Code supposedly has flat characters too (only saw the movie, so I can't really tell what the book is like), but the readers read it for the conspiracy anyway, not the characters.

 

Of course, readers have different priorities, and those who highly prioritize characters won't like a series with poor characters no matter how the rest is written. And of course, different people will prioritize different aspects. Judging from the popularity of say, Superman, character development isn't a necessity for many readers of that genre (and to take a more modern example, One Piece is the most popular series in Japan, but the main characters stopped getting any character development long ago. Personally, I can't stand them and don't understand why they're so popular, but evidently they are D: . I'm not talking about the world-building or the plot-writing by the way). I'm among the subcategory of readers who places a very high premium on well-written female characters, because I am totally fed-up by how poorly they're portrayed in many mainstream Shounen series, and it's often not that better in Western media (damsels in distress in blockbuster movies, fanservice with unpractical clothing in games, etc.)

 

The thing I find interesting about Kubera is how the character are all part of the plot. Having been way too long in the Naruto fandom before bailing too late (stupidly hoped it'd become better again), in that fandom readers had deduced that there are 2 types of stories: character-driven and plot-driven. Part I of Naruto was character-driven, exploring the motivations and backgrounds of all the characters Naruto confronted, and it was glorious. Part 2 became plot-driven however (centering on the Akatsuki and Save-Sasuke plotlines), and somehow all the characters were forced to fit into neat little molds in order to better be stuffed into the plot. They lost any character development they gained in Part 1 and became Naruto's mindless worshippers, becoming unable to think by themselves or make big-picture decisions on their own. It was disastrous. T_T

 

But Kubera somehow manages to be both plot-driven and character-driven, because the characters and their history Are the plot. The plot is big enough so that the lives of all the humans here, Sura and Gods, are all intrinsically tied to it, and all of them in turn drive the plot further. This is unlike series like Naruto, where the support cast is just extra with nothing to do with the central plot, and became fillers as a result.

 

I'll add a few things about the art.

 

I agree, if the art were better, then Kubera would be visually glorious. I would have liked if at least she added a few more shadows and added a few more gradients to her buildings. I suspect much of it is due to her lack of time and lack of assistants though, Tower of God's art improved a Lot once SIU got an assistant.

 

Kubera's art does have several strong points, however:

• The character designs are really clear designs. Even at different ages, with different clothes, or different hairstyles, the characters are immediately recognizable (as long as you remember them in the first place, given its huge cast of characters). I think the only one I didn't recognize was Rao Leez in Asha's thoughts during the water channels (ch. 91), but then again the only image we had of him by then was the photo in chapter 1, and he changed his hairstyle, and the thought was monochrome. Anyway, Ran's thoughts a few chapters later quickly clarified who he is. I find this point quite important, because in Shingeki no Kyojin, I had a lot of trouble remembering who's who at first because they all looked the same-ish.
• A bit in line with the above, there is a decent variety of looks. Sure, they nearly all look attractive and such, but they have different musculatures, skin tones, eye-shapes etc. You won't ever mistake Gandharva for Agni. The girls range from over-endowed (Leez) to completely flat (Sagara). By contrast, all the major girls in One Piece have the same body shape. :\ (they all look different and distinct, but they have the same body shape I mean). I also kind of like that Leez is pretty tanned.
• I also really like her clothes choices. Characters like Leez, Ran, Yuta and Lorraine who don't give a damn about their looks wear practical clothes and not say... battle-bikinis (UGH), but the stuffy magicians will still wear clothes that in my opinion are quite elegantly designed, while not being Too impractical. They're mostly wear-able designs (of course, not for everyday life, but as clothes used to emphasize status, sure). What I mean is, many of the designs manage to look really cool while avoiding the excessive bling-bling, spikes and leather used for fanservice in many fantasy genres.
• I love the expressions. Currygom isn't that strong on facial anatomy, but the characters are so expressive! The funny expressions never fail to make me laugh, and in general, the expressions very well display the personalities of the characters (sullen, sly, happy-go-lucky) and allow them to convey a pretty wide range of emotions. It's not high-art, but it does its job really well.
• Finally, it seems to me that Currygom put a lot of thought into her background designs. She just lacks the time (maybe skills, to a point?) to draw them properly. For example, the Temple of Kali had some pretty interesting designs, and if each detail were properly shaded and drawn, it'd look magnificent. Alas, we readers don't want the story to be slower than it already is. o,o Also, in chapter 100, when the cast first reached Kalibloom, I must say I thought it looked really badass.

In short, it'd be awesome if the art were refined further, but it does its job well enough to convey the story (even if it only rarely makes us stop and gawk).

 

Funny note: the art often looks better in book-version, probably because everything is smaller, and more blank spaces are covered by speech bubbles. >_>;; But really, some scenes that don't really stand out on-screen, really pop out when in the book version. I'm curious to see how Currygom stuffs in that extra long strip of Gandharva vs Agni...

Edited by Mizura, 08 November 2013 - 05:03 AM.

[bonifide]

To other webcomics i think this one is the weakest. I mean seriously the main character is dumb beyond belief and always gets into trouble to be saved. I dont see how that is a good story more like the main character is basically your damsel in distress. 

[Mizura]

Leez isn't dumb, she's ignorant because she lacks an education. She can figure out the Klein bottle in her head, and she remembers just about everything.

 

The thing is that this series starts when Leez is in her larval stage of development, so to say, whereas all the people around her are fully formed elites (this is also unlike a school setting, where Leez could be compared to equivalent peers). Still, we know that Leez will become stronger than current Yuta, who himself is a match for up to 4th stage Rakshasa. Also, she'll become strong enough to survive the 5 Sura armies being sent after her, while being completely alone, so that's something.

 

Besides, if she's a damsel in distress, who the heck is the knight in shining armor? The guy who sent 5 Sura armies after her, or the guy who wants to eat her?

Edited by Mizura, 09 November 2013 - 05:22 AM.

[BehindTheLighT]

I've recently finished reading Kubera(after looking at this thread), and I really like ToG (and I mean A LOT, I read it several times), so I would like to say mine. (Please keep in mind that I read Kubera only one time)

 

Despite what many here seems to think, to compare ToG and Kubera is not easy, at least in my opinion. As other said in this thread there are several differences, the mains are:

ToG is an action series, while Kubera is far less so (for now)

Kubera was plotted as a novel in the beginning, ToG was'nt

 

As a result the main difference beetween the 2 is, in my opinion, how the story flows:  in Kubera the story flows constantly, as you would expect from a novel, while ToG is more episodic, like the majority of the comics, but at the end of the season you realize that all those arcs before were a setup for the end of the season.

Someone in the previous page said that Kubera is well plotted, while ToG sometimes seems written by an amateur (first of all I must thank you, because your "provocative" post made me curious enough to check Kubera, don't worry about your throat ), well I think that ToG has been plotted out from start to finish as well, but for the reasons stated before this is maybe less evident.

 

In Tog the "main character" is the eye of the storm, so he is the one who trigger the events, even if their true origin lies well in the past just like in Kubera, but here the events in motion are what trigger the actions of the character. So in Kubera we have a large cast of equally important characters, but we can assume that Leez will stand out later, while in ToG the importance of the main character will likely matched by others who for now are "support characters". This is also why the story in Kubera seems far slower than in ToG.

Both plots have their core in the past (in both the events of the plot have their origins in the past), but while this is obvious in Kubera, this is far less evident in ToG, since the characters themselves are just beginning to understand this as a result of  the main character suffering. They want to make their dreams come true, but to free themselves from the powers of their world they will have to solve the mystery of the past.

 

Then comes the foreshadowing, both of them use it very well, but in  very different ways: in ToG it is often visual and difficult to see, while in this Kubera is also more similar to a novel.

In conclusion both of them are extraordinary good works, but i think that Kubera would have been better as a novel. I find quite amusing that there is more fanservice in Kubera, written by a woman, than in ToG that is written by a man, even though it is probably better this way since SIU seems not so good at drawing half naked women . I still prefer ToG,  i like a lot the dark aura that it has, while i've read in this section that some prefer Kubera because it isn't so dark (but I think it could be even more dark,  because in ToG's darkness there is hope, while in Kubera we are flat out told that it will end in tragedy).

 

Soooo, longest post i've ever wrote here on batoto, I hope that my english is good enough to make this easy to uderstand for you all.

[AnotherReader]

I also read Kubera and ToG and they are by far my favourite stories. No other webtoon, comic, tv show, or whatever beats them.

 

Comparing the two is very difficult as I don't know which I like more. Personally, I feel that Kubera is more consistent excitement whereas ToG has more "highs" and "lows", especially if you do not count the first chapters of each series. Kubera has more consistent excitement as every chapter there is at least one exciting part or something new that is interesting. ToG on the other hand does have lulls in the story. However, ToG does have chapters that are extremely entertaining. For example when Rachel pushed Baam out of the bubble (I jumped up after reading that and could not stand or sit still for at least a minute). Ultimately I think they both have amazing stories which can be attributed to the pacing of the stories. Both stories have, in my opinion, a slow start whereas most other comics have an entire story in their first chapter to hook people to reading more. Kubera and ToG do not have this as even the first chapters are to set the stage for a bigger story, which unfortunately also stops some people from getting into the story as they might think nothing is happening (Along with other things such as the art style which can be hard to adjust to). Ultimately I think that the authors of both Kubera and ToG (Currygom and SIU respectively) want to tell a larger story and they do this really well which is why Kubera and ToG are so good. This may be possible because of the fact that these stories are webtoons so that they are not at risk of being cancelled (I don't completely know how webtoons work).

 

So I am keeping my eye out for other webtoons (like Black Haze) for other great stories.

 

Well that's my opinion about their stories. I didn't talk much about the characters or art as whatever I have to say has already been said either on this forum or on others.

[flowsthead]

I also read Kubera and ToG and they are by far my favourite stories. No other webtoon, comic, tv show, or whatever beats them.

 

I think it's great you found two great webcomics that you love, and certainly everyone's tastes are subjective, but you should read more books. There are a lot of great books out there.