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Lahel appreciation thread


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#21
ClearAsATear

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Lolll you made me laugh man xD

my pleasure :)

On topic: I guess there is more to Lahel than most would possibly assume. We have just witness her getting her hands really dirty in what seemed to have been a truly affectional act. It doesnt matter how I look at it, I get the feeling that Lahel was so deep struck by what Dan said that she just bursted in the heat of her emotions.

I dont particulary understand the reason behind her outburst though. Because what did he say? He mentioned her kicking two friends of the cliff with her perfectly fine feet. One being Koon AA, the other being Baam.

It's obviously true. But her reaction? There must be more to the whole "betraying Baam"-part that we can possibly think of. So I am going to conclude to something unimaginable: Trust in Lahel's words and dont talk about something I have got no idea about!

Edited by ClearAsATear, 11 February 2013 - 06:56 PM.

Suggestions 4 me? I like: Vagabond, Tower of God, Kingdom, Vinland Saga, Historie, Ability, D.I.C.E, The Gamer, City of the Dead Sorcerer, LuckStealer, Until death do us part, Naruto, Breaker: New Waves, Tough, Dark Air, Sidooh, Shingeki no Kyojin, Black Behemoth, One-Punch Man, Twelve Nights, Remember, Feng Shen Ji, ChunChu, No. 6, Peace Maker, Blazer Drive, City of Darkness, Gangsta., Magician, Bokko, FullMetal Alchemist, Holyland, Gekiryuuchi, Rurouni Kenshin, Samurai Champloo, Green Blood, The Breaker, Gamaran, Real, Shaman, Zelda: The Edge and The Light


#22
Grace Mirchea Luslec

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Bottom line if anyone don't have anything constructing about Rachel aka Lahel aka Michelle Light, flame her on another topic board. This board is for people who appreciate Rachel without the childish immature hate rant. This is proof how immature people are on this forum about Rachel. The topic says Rachel appreciation, but you people simply click on the topic to spread your nonsense trying to force your hate down our throats.

Edited by Michelle_Light, 11 February 2013 - 07:04 PM.

101010

Goodbye! This was the last straw:

Grace Mirchea Luslec, on 05 Oct 2013 - 21:07, said:snapback.png

Off topic and I want to put this out there. Rachel > Koon

You presence is not wanted in the forums.


#23
Euodiachloris

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Huh.

Sociopaths dont deal in self-delusion. They outright dont care one way or the other.

Yes-no: they don't desperately need to self-delude (no point, really: they're pretty certain about what they are in relation to others), but they can and will do so if it means making their act more convincing (but, again, it's often an act within an act): unlike with psychopathy, they can throw the delusions off at will (in theory: some don't fair so well doing that when the delusion centres on why they are so special :P). It strongly depends on several aspects of their make-up... and, gender-roles they've been assigned or have assigned themselves, as well. :P I suggest you bone up on the relative similarities and differences between the personality disorders... and, how sodding hard it is to tell them apart at the high-functioning ends of the spectrum, mate, before you accuse somebody else of not knowing anything and being out of their depths. :) The sociopath and psychopath share an awful lot of aspects to their conditions when playing up there and do swapsies a lot with what they show... if only to confuse others. :)

You can only reliably tell them apart when one kind starts to unravel and becomes lost in their delusions. :P There's a reason why you often need a committee of specialists to come to a conclusion about such cases as Anders Breivik and Ian Brady.

Note also, that I did not apologize for Koon. What I stated was the difference between their styles of ruthlessness, and explained why preferring one over the other was hardly a double standard.

Again: yes-no. Don't forget, all we see is SIU's careful presentation of both. Squint, and look at Aguero from another angle (like, say... Snake-Dude's... or his own sister's). Now, take a look at Rachel using the standard template for "misunderstood heroine" when the world is out to getcha, but you'll come good in the end. She actually ticks a fair few boxes... even if it's in her own head and mostly off-screen. :P

In another light (i.e. not the current Baam-centric one), she is admirable, however flawed. :) This is what I love about ToG: you can flip the characters over and still get them to work in other roles, depending on how else you could tell the tale. That's the sign of solid character creation and plot-lines. ^_^

We are in a world of anti-villains and anti-heroes: and, they can easily swap over and shift about, depending on where they are in our understanding of them. :D

Even if somebody is made to play the Bond Villain at any point, I'm betting there'll be more to it: even Quant has his depths. ;) And, don't fall for the "Nice Guys", either: Lero-Ro will have some sins in his background... probably up there with Jinsung's. We just don't know about them, yet. <shrugs> And, Yuri: none of the Princesses are all sunshine and roses.

Edited by Euodiachloris, 11 February 2013 - 07:19 PM.

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#24
Shu

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hi guys i know this might be a little of topic, but maybe this star-nim is the creator of the tower, and is someone very important to her more than anything, explaining her betrayals, ( i know star-nim is a fictional story but the way she says this i got the idea he might be more than just a silly star)

Edited by Shu, 11 February 2013 - 07:16 PM.


#25
pepbut

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I think Rachel is a great antagonist mainly because she's so frustrating. She's portrayed as self-centered, petty, impulsive, always has an excuse, etc.; just your normal pathetic person. But despite that, she seems to blindly stumble to victory in every situation despite not possessing a single redeemable quality.

She's the kind of villain that, despite being weak and helpless, remains untouchable entirely due to luck and circumstances. You know that any character in the story could crush her at any time with ease, but they never get the opportunity and thus she continues to win.

It's much more interesting than your typical mastermind, impossibly powerful villain. That's my take on it at least.

#26
N3RV

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Well.. I think that Rachel is similar with us. She forsakse her friends to reach her goals just like us, abandoning whatever it disturbs or blocks our way. Poor Rachel, for being so realistic.


Just like you not us. The reason people act like greedy self serving doppelgangers of humanity is because theyve managed to convince themselves that everyone is as empty and dead inside as them so they dont have to face the truth of what a pile of a person they are

Bottom line if anyone don't have anything constructing about Rachel aka Lahel aka Michelle Light, flame her on another topic board. This board is for people who appreciate Rachel without the childish immature hate rant. This is proof how immature people are on this forum about Rachel. The topic says Rachel appreciation, but you people simply click on the topic to spread your nonsense trying to force your hate down our throats.


I appreciate rachel as a villain because i hate her. i think sui did a great job in creating a villain so vile that i can even see her in a single pannel without wishing her dead. I think your scope of "appreciative" is way too narrow and short sighted. rachel is the absolute worste humanity has to offer all the wit in the world but not enough sense to do anything worth while with it.

I thought I was the only who thought like that. People minds are basically stuck in the bad guy vs good guy mentality. There will always be a double-standard because people hate Rachel for what she did to Baam, but will praise Koon who's the exact same character type because only because he's friends with Baam.


No, Koon didnt betray a friend. Racheal did exactly that to someone that wanted nothing more then to make her happy. If you really cant see how the diference in situation and character relationships change the morality then you need to pull your self together fan boy cuz you sound as crazy as her when you say things like that

#27
Grace Mirchea Luslec

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Why does Rachel want to see the stars/sky so bad?
This question won't be solved until 80% through the story.

Why did Rachel betray Baam?
Easy it was Headon's demand to obtain a irregular F.U.G member.

Does Rachel actually care about Baam?
She really do, I don't know how many times despite she knew she had to betray Baam she told him to quit following her.

Is Rachel weak?
No....Just because a character rather use their brains over brute force doesn't make them weak. I'm pretty sure Rachel being a 1st seed in the position test show she has talent manipulating shinsoo. Shouldn't Koon be consider weak if he only use his brain?

Is Rachel and Koon similar characters.
Yes.... Rachel and Koon are both characters who manipulate and use deception as a weapon. Rachel is hated for betraying Baam, Koon is loved for being friends with Baam. The only difference I see.

Will Rachel be stronger down the line?
This is a very highly flamed arguement because people who hate Rachel doesn't want to see her become strong.
My answer yes. All irregulars are known to be stronger, all the outside(TUS) are stronger than the inside residence(TOG).

Does Rachel know Baam is alive.
Yes, I thought many times that Rachel push Baam to his death to fake Le-ro , Yuri and anyone interested in Baam. Rachel never tried to kill Baam, but fulfill her deal with Headon. The fact Rachel is acting with Apple, Michael, Casano and Xia Xia she would know Baam is alive.

What will Rachel role be in the climax.
Rachel being highly misunderstood, she'll probably end up on Baam's team and the whole plot of why she betrayed Baam will be revealed by SIU.

I wish I had abc check :(

Edited by Michelle_Light, 11 February 2013 - 08:15 PM.

101010

Goodbye! This was the last straw:

Grace Mirchea Luslec, on 05 Oct 2013 - 21:07, said:snapback.png

Off topic and I want to put this out there. Rachel > Koon

You presence is not wanted in the forums.


#28
salvatore

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i cant remember the movie but when i was a kid i watched horror movie where doll kills people, stabs in the back lol the terror i had that movie is nt wearing off lol...the same way i feel lahel

#29
ebattleon

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i cant remember the movie but when i was a kid i watched horror movie where doll kills people, stabs in the back lol the terror i had that movie is nt wearing off lol...the same way i feel lahel


Rachel = Chucky I love this, lol.

I had fun once...it was awful" Grumpy Cat  "I knew you come back. Its because you look tasty. Nutty, yet sweet and sour..." 2nd Level Guardian to Bamm

"Pesky turtles" "Irregular? What that food?" Rack Wraithrasier
"Ah! you sinful woman" "Though I feel I'm making more trouble for myself its fine , I'm a cool girl" Androssi
"Come to the fried side" Augusgus
"He's like irregular of irregulars!" Yuri
"Well-I guess its a very well made ball" Headon

 


#30
Dimitraa

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Get off the board, you're not witty with you sly shots. Go flame Rachel on another board.

I don't think that's flaming.Appreciation is appreciation even if what someone can only appreciate of that complex character is the evilness.
I see Lahel as gray not black,and as multidimensional not just a simple character.I appreciate her for this.
If someone can appreciate her though because she sees her as the embodiment of all evil and the ultimate villain that makes TOG more interesting,then that's fine by me personally.We disagree but this also goes under appreciation thread.

I think Rachel is a great antagonist mainly because she's so frustrating. She's portrayed as self-centered, petty, impulsive, always has an excuse, etc.; just your normal pathetic person. But despite that, she seems to blindly stumble to victory in every situation despite not possessing a single redeemable quality.

She's the kind of villain that, despite being weak and helpless, remains untouchable entirely due to luck and circumstances. You know that any character in the story could crush her at any time with ease, but they never get the opportunity and thus she continues to win.

It's much more interesting than your typical mastermind, impossibly powerful villain. That's my take on it at least.

Hehe I don't feel like that,but I can empathise this feeling and it must be very frustrating.Opportunity and luck she sure has.Is she that weak and useless?Who really knows.I don't trust Headon words because he's a proved liar.I haven't seen her fight seriously in a floor.She's an irregular so i don't know.She could be the most useless of them all,or be a genious lightbearer.I wait for proof either way.

#31
Dimitraa

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Why does Rachel want to see the stars/sky so bad?
This question won't be solved until 80% through the story.

Why did Rachel betray Baam?
Easy it was Headon's demand to obtain a irregular F.U.G member.

Does Rachel actually care about Baam?
She really do, I don't know how many times despite she knew she had to betray Baam she told him to quit following her.

Is Rachel weak?
No....Just because a character rather use their brains over brute force doesn't make them weak. I'm pretty sure Rachel being a 1st seed in the position test show she has talent manipulating shinsoo. Shouldn't Koon be consider weak if he only use his brain?

Is Rachel and Koon similar characters.
Yes.... Rachel and Koon are both characters who manipulate and use deception as a weapon. Rachel is hated for betraying Baam, Koon is loved for being friends with Baam. The only difference I see.

Will Rachel be stronger down the line?
This is a very highly flamed arguement because people who hate Rachel doesn't want to see her become strong.
My answer yes. All irregulars are known to be stronger, all the outside(TUS) are stronger than the inside residence(TOG).

Does Rachel know Baam is alive.
Yes, I thought many times that Rachel push Baam to his death to fake Le-ro , Yuri and anyone interested in Baam. Rachel never tried to kill Baam, but fulfill her deal with Headon. The fact Rachel is acting with Apple, Michael, Casano and Xia Xia she would know Baam is alive.

What will Rachel role be in the climax.
Rachel being highly misunderstood, she'll probably end up on Baam's team and the whole plot of why she betrayed Baam will be revealed by SIU.

I wish I had abc check :(


I think that Lahel doesn't know that Baam survived.This would make bigger the price she had to pay to fullfill the deal with Headon.She really had to betray her best friend,not just simply pretend to imo.The biggest the reward the highest the price and this was a big reward from the Guardian.But I don't know we will learn soon enough.
I am not sure if her being the first seed is a good indication since the seeds were made by Fug member YHS,but I also find it hard to believe that she lacks any power.She IS an irregular,she hasn't been shown to fight seriously so far and we simply don't know.Just to assume that she's a weak isn't wise imo.

#32
Grace Mirchea Luslec

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I think that Lahel doesn't know that Baam survived.This would make bigger the price she had to pay to fullfill the deal with Headon.She really had to betray her best friend,not just simply pretend to imo.The biggest the reward the highest the price and this was a big reward from the Guardian.But I don't know we will learn soon enough.
I am not sure if her being the first seed is a good indication since the seeds were made by Fug member YHS,but I also find it hard to believe that she lacks any power.She IS an irregular,she hasn't been shown to fight seriously so far and we simply don't know.Just to assume that she's a weak isn't wise imo.


I thought the seeding was done by Le-ro who's neutral, so I may have to check out that chapter again.*edit yeah I read the chapter again and don't describe if Le-ro or YHS did the seeding, but I'm going to say YHS. But don't forget during the position test Rachel had extra points during the test to get food and eat by herself.Also SIU could go with Rachel not knowing Baam is alive to add more drama, but I find it quite stupid for her not to know when she is working with F.U.G.

I concluded that she knew Baam was alive simply to the fact Xia Xia was with Baam and I think that was Apple who threatening Baam telling him not to move. Remember lighthouses can connect to other lighthouses and since Xia Xia, Apple and Rachel use lighthouses they were communicating. Apple is shown operating two lighthouses.

Edited by Michelle_Light, 11 February 2013 - 08:38 PM.

101010

Goodbye! This was the last straw:

Grace Mirchea Luslec, on 05 Oct 2013 - 21:07, said:snapback.png

Off topic and I want to put this out there. Rachel > Koon

You presence is not wanted in the forums.


#33
pepbut

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Get off the board, you're not witty with you sly shots. Go flame Rachel on another board.


Stop trolling, it's very clear that Rachel is intended to be the antagonist. Though I'd be willing to bet that she'll be redeemed some time in the future after we learn about her horrific past or something like that. She really is a great character though.

#34
Euodiachloris

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Stop trolling, it's very clear that Rachel is intended to be the antagonist. Though I'd be willing to bet that she'll be redeemed some time in the future after we learn about her horrific past or something like that. She really is a great character though.

We don't know that, though. :mellow: That's your reading. I'm still uncertain as to her precise nature: at the moment, she appears to be such... to Aguero, more than Baam. <shrugs>

And, seeing as she's not the one to be in charge of her own actions, entirely... I'd put money on the real antagonist being either YHS, somebody else in FUG or Headon. <shrugs> She's still very much a puppet trying to tug her own strings... with little success. :mellow:

Just like Baam is having no success in trying to go the way he wants to. <_< They're in the same boat. -_- I don't think either really knows who is pulling both their strings. <_< We need to go higher to find the real picture out. <_<

And, imo: that's why Aguero's been targeted. He's one of the few in a position to start making the connections. :) But, he's also slightly blinded: he's not seeing Baam AND Rachel as a package. ;) He's also stuck thinking she's an (or the) antagonist of his friend's, rather than a dual-victim of the same plot against him. :lol:

After all, for all Rachel is being used as a lure for Baam's climb... Baam is being used as a goad to hers. :mellow: Somebody is using the pair against each other. I happen to think that neither will make headway until they start pulling in the same direction... And, I've no clue what that direction is, yet... <tries pulling hair out: fails due to stupidly tight ponytail>

Edited by Euodiachloris, 11 February 2013 - 08:47 PM.

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#35
101010

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So we have an appreciation thread now? I too find her character interesting, but this is a bit overboard. It's as if you don't like the character for what it is (which I find almost impossible, because there is nothing to like her for), but only because majority of people hate her. Her character is not that much more complex than that of others, it's just more mysterious.

Also this whole thread has the potential to turn into a flame war and it even seems to promote such actions. Let's see how long will it survive, because I will close it the moment I feel things are getting out of hand.

The opinions expressed by this user are solely their own and do not express the views of Batoto and its staff.


#36
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I think it's pretty clear that Rachel doesn't know Baam survived. She became crazy and obsessed with his death after she pushed him in the ''water tank''. When Dan accused her to have killed Baam, she became hysteric and stabbed him who knows how many times before getting back to normal.
It's very probable that if she learns that Baam survived, she returns to her normal self and regret sincerely all the wrongs she did. But I think SIU will make it in a way that even if she wants to repent, she won't be able, she will have no choice but to betray again and continue into the madness.

Concerning the best seed position, I also think that it's YHS's doing. Rachel did nothing more than accompanying Akryung and watch him slaughter everyone on the 2cd floor's first test. Even Lero Ro didn't want to explain how the best seed were chosen.

And about Rachel's potential because or her ''irregularity'', I think it's better to consider her as a normal girl. Headon said she was unfit to climb the Tower, she doesn't have the qualities, she shouldn't have been able to enter the Tower in the first place, it was an accident. It's not completely impossible that she will power up a little but I personally don't expect her to become a power house.

Edited by Algis, 11 February 2013 - 09:09 PM.


#37
Euodiachloris

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Algis, until this last strip, quite a few people were convinced she didn't have a clue that Aguero was on to her... but, seems she was on to him from day one. :P

Now... well... nothing she told the guy is kosher. <_< Including all that claptrap about how she felt about Baam. <_<

I don't know what she knows... but, I'm not going to rule her out of actually knowing full well that Baam is alive... and part of FUG. :P Not now: not after a good chunk of the ring-fence turning out to be fully on her side, possibly from the get-go. :lol: Nor am I going to fully rule it in, either. <_< It's in the cloud of possibles. <shrugs>

I thought she might have pushed Baam to his "death" deliberately knowing he wouldn't die when I first saw it... and that possibility hasn't gone away. If anything, it's murkier. -_-

I'm just going to have to keep waiting. <shrugs>

Edited by Euodiachloris, 11 February 2013 - 09:18 PM.

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#38
inFamous

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Stop trolling, it's very clear that Rachel is intended to be the antagonist. Though I'd be willing to bet that she'll be redeemed some time in the future after we learn about her horrific past or something like that. She really is a great character though.

Nope: http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/9544-sius-qa-translations-discussions/

I don't like Rachel either, but SIU intends for her to be the female protagonist in this story, she is his favorite character after all. I'm very curious how that will happen though. Maybe she'll be all "Miss Nicey" to everyone later on, but everyone in return treats her like crap, because she's weak and ugly, especially those close to Baam. Baam himself could be the "villain" later on, but that is a theory for another discussion.

Edited by infamous, 11 February 2013 - 09:24 PM.


#39
Algis

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@ Euo
I thought you studied psychology or something. It should be obvious to you that rachel's reaction with Dan is the proof that she still thinks she killed Baam. If not, it doesn't make any sens.

Edited by Algis, 11 February 2013 - 09:23 PM.


#40
Veice

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Well true, Lachel is interesting and has character, she also makes TOG very intricate, but I still don't like her : /
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