432 replies to this topic

[Dimitraa]

In this sad dark time ..now that the numerous hordes of her haters have conquered this forum and the echoes of their barbaric cries asking for her head pollute the air,this is a little sanctuary..a thread for the few remaining of us who are able to see beyond the simplistic black and white hypocritical view and still possess the courage to appreciate Lahel.
Appreciate her for what she is,
for what she brought in this webtoon
and how much more exciting she makes it..
For how much more complex her character is,than simply calling her names.
This is a call to arms for those of you,who are forced to remain in the shadows,trying to hide yourselves ..for fear of prosecution or flaming.
Let's unite!

[naphack]

Rachel is one crazy bitch...
And I like her for it... She actually shows some emotions about killing people.

[ToGholic]

Well.. I think that Rachel is similar with us. She forsakse her friends to reach her goals just like us, abandoning whatever it disturbs or blocks our way.

Poor Rachel, for being so realistic.

[ClearAsATear]

Spoiler

At times a picture can say more than a 1000 words ever could

[Algis]

Yesterday, I wanted to do the sketch of Rachel's trial in a court, impersonating her lawyer. The opposite party (the haters) would have charged her with all sort of accusations and her lawyer would have defended her, adopting Rachel's point of view, an innocent girl, a total victim, who completely inverts everything and turns it into her favor. And I would have called people to the witness box (Headon, YHS, Akryung, Androssi, Apple, etc, people who know a few things about her).
Unfortunately, my English is very scholar, I don't have enough vocabulary to do something like that. If someone wants to do it, it could be very funny Maybe we can even create a thread entirely dedicated to this.

Edited by Algis, 11 February 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[Toullaty]

In fact, without love Rachel, I appreciate his character, especially since she has been shown to not only slow down the other and acts on its own.

[BlitznBurst]

Thank you, Rachel, for killing one of my favourite characters off! What would we do without you?

[MangaFan]

Spoiler

At times a picture can say more than a 1000 words ever could

Lolll you made me laugh man xD

[Dimitraa]

Lahel is no saint.She has betrayed and now even likely killed someone.But why should be singled out from every other regular in the Tower who has done exactly that a thousand times over?In a world of villains and betrayals,she who has only commited very few crimes in comparison,is the one labeled the evil one.

Yesterday, I wanted to do the sketch of Rachel's trial in a court, impersonating her lawyer. The opposite party (the haters) would have charged her with all sort of accusations and her lawyer would have defended her, adopting Rachel's point of view, an innocent girl, a total victim, who completely inverts everything and turns it into her favor. And I would have called people to the witness box (Headon, YHS, Akryung, Androssi, Apple, etc, people who know a few things about her).
Unfortunately, my English is very scholar, I don't have enough vocabulary to do something like that. If someone wants to do it, it could be very funny Maybe we can even create a thread entirely dedicated to this.

hehe what an original idea!!But you would have to know the lawyer language so it would be difficult.
I think ,against the mindless hating that I see everywhere here,there are a lot of arguments one could make.
Like that Lahel as everyone but Baam and a very few others,wants to climb the Tower and does everything to achieve that.But she is called a bitch for this,whereas beautiful princess Androssi who ruthlessly kills and selfishly betrays her own team without almost feeling anything,is admired upon.Double standards much?Also Lahel,imo, seems to have suffered from some kind of regret.When Hwa Ryun has visited her,she should have been extremely happy and excited to have achieved her goal,but she was gloomy and couldn't sleep.That's no in accordance with the behaviour of some sociopathic psycho bitch.

Things are not black and white in TOG(thankfully).Everything is gray.

Also I have to say I appreciate a lot what Lahel brought to this story.She makes it so much interesting.At first it seemed to me a little boring and cliche..the defenseless girl who has to be protected by the mighty hero "yawn".But refreshingly the little girl is not so passive this time.How tiring and boring this always used story is to me.Why can't the girl be no saint?Why can't she decide that she doesn't want protection but she is going to achieve her goal by her own means?As a heroine,I will take Lahel,even with her evil creepy huge laugh a thousand times over,the passive,innocent ecchi kyaaa heroine of japanese manga that just encourages the hero and with tears on her eyes begs him not to leave her or to protect her.

[salvatore]

finally they came out of the closet

[Dimitraa]

I thought I was the only who thought like that. People minds are basically stuck in the bad guy vs good guy mentality. There will always be a double-standard because people hate Rachel for what she did to Baam, but will praise Koon who's the exact same character type because only because he's friends with Baam.

Koon is another bright example for double standards.When he stabbed that lizard guy there were a few,who were shocked because they naively thought that he wouldn't harm a fly.And then there were others who excused his murdering,as self defense.But either way,he still wasn't labeled as a villain,and now it is conviently forgotten/overlooked by most.They admire him and drool over his genious,digging under the carpet his ruthless nature.He sadistically and methodically was planning his revenge for YEARS,pretending to be friends.Imagine what an emotional profile and character synthesis this behaviour suggests.
Always double standards..but ..
Isn't it funny when one on the side of the "good" (androssi)has more blood in her hands than the main much hated oh so evil and what a bitch antagonist?

[naphack]

I thought I was the only who thought like that. People minds are basically stuck in the bad guy vs good guy mentality. There will always be a double-standard because people hate Rachel for what she did to Baam, but will praise Koon who's the exact same character type because only because he's friends with Baam.

You forgot to speak in first person...

[Grace Mirchea Luslec]

Koon is another bright example for double standards.When he stabbed that lizard guy there were a few,who were shocked because they naively thought that he wouldn't harm a fly.And then there were others who excused his murdering,as self defense.But either way,he still wasn't labeled as a villain,and now it is conviently forgotten/overlooked by most.They admire him and drool over his genious,digging under the carpet his ruthless nature.He sadistically and methodically was planning his revenge for YEARS,pretending to be friends.Imagine what an emotional profile and character synthesis this behaviour suggests.
Always double standards..but ..
Isn't it funny when one on the side of the "good" (androssi)has more blood in her hands than the main much hated oh so evil and what a bitch antagonist?

Yeah the double standard is unbelievable. Rachel generating so much hate for killing Dan who was suppose to betray her when the time came, but when Lurker brutally murder NIa it was a.....Oh that's messed up, I wonder what Baam is doing(moving along). Everyone did their wrongs in the tower, but Rachel only been in the tower for 6 years, while Koon been manipulating people since I don't know when and every since he made friends with Baam people just forgive Koon and forget about all the blood he has his hands.

You forgot to speak in first person...

Yeah I did.

Edited by Michelle_Light, 11 February 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[Furudo Erik]

Its not a double standard.

Koon acts with style, skill, and realism.

Rachel has none of those redeeming qualities, and is functioning under the delusion that she is completely not responsible for anything negative she does, while expecting her goals to be delivered to her feet.

[Dimitraa]

Its not a double standard. Koon acts with style, skill, and realism. Rachel has none of those redeeming qualities, and is functioning under the delusion that she is completely not responsible for anything negative she does, while expecting her goals to be delivered to her feet.

You can like koon all you want, for his skills and style.But you can't blame Lahel for being a bitch,when the one you admire is equally sneaky.and ruthless.That IS double standards.When you blame someone for something and you overlook that same thing in someone else.
Who knows after all what qualities Lahel possess?I don't remember having seen her lately fighting or in action?Yet,everyone easily assumes she must be weak and useless.Having not seen equals Does not exist??lol..I'm sorry but SIU is too clever and troll for that.
Also not responsible for anything?How do you know that?All I have seen shows that she does feel some kind of regret,and regret means feeling responsible.
Not responsible for their action means sociopath,and a sociopath for sure wouldn't with passion yell what Lahel said after the Dan scene.She would simply smile and kill.Like Apple and Michael.Oh,and Androssi.

[Furudo Erik]

Huh.

Sociopaths dont deal in self-delusion. They outright dont care one way or the other.

Note also, that I did not apologize for Koon. What I stated was the difference between their styles of ruthlessness, and explained why preferring one over the other was hardly a double standard.

No need to put words in my mouth, especially when arguing out of your depth.

[naphack]

Yeah the double standard is unbelievable. Rachel generating so much hate for killing Dan who was suppose to betray her when the time came, but when Lurker brutally murder NIa it was a.....Oh that's messed up, I wonder what Baam is doing(moving along). Everyone did their wrongs in the tower, but Rachel only been in the tower for 6 years, while Koon been manipulating people since I don't know when and every since he made friends with Baam people just forgive Koon and forget about all the blood he has his hands.



Yeah I did.

Betray her?

Simply, Dan would have never betrayed her. He refused to work for her and made clear, it would never happen. That's all.

You can tell that much about Dans personality and his view of the world: He is not the type to betray you. He may at some point of being a team openly tell you, he hates your guts for what you are doing and walk out. That's about it.
You still remember, how he got baited in by Koon, right? His first lucid sentence after waking up? "Damn, now I have to work for that guy." Really, he is such a schemer and was surely planning on betraying Koon and everyone all along!

[clamzoopa]

In this sad dark time ..now that the numerous hordes of her haters have conquered this forum and the echoes of their barbaric cries asking for her head pollute the air,this is a little sanctuary..a thread for the few remaining of us who are able to see beyond the simplistic black and white hypocritical view and still possess the courage to appreciate Lahel. Appreciate her for what she is, for what she brought in this webtoon and how much more exciting she makes it.. For how much more complex her character is,than simply calling her names. This is a call to arms for those of you,who are forced to remain in the shadows,trying to hide yourselves ..for fear of prosecution or flaming. Let's unite!

Why do you believe people wanting her head and her being important to the story are mutually exclusive? She is s terrible being, and obviously, there are plenty of those in the story, and countless more in the world of the Tower. Is her character complex? So far, she's the simplest one I've seen, other than Rak. She would do anything to climb the tower. At least FUG members have an ulterior motive and want to change the rules of the system. I feel as though you are no better than the people you are talking about, as you label them as black and white as they label Rachel.

[Dimitraa]

Huh. Sociopaths dont deal in self-delusion. They outright dont care one way or the other. Note also, that I did not apologize for Koon. What I stated was the difference between their styles of ruthlessness, and explained why preferring one over the other was hardly a double standard. No need to put words in my mouth, especially when arguing out of your depth.

I am arguing out of my depth?What does this even mean?And where did I put any words in your mouth?I hardly made it personally so please don't do it either.This is simply a place to disagree or agree with arguments not personal attacks.
You talked about redeeming qualities of Koon didn't you not?This alone is a double standard.That someone (you in this case) can overlook the flaw and evil nature of someone because of his virtue/skills,whereas another person who doesn't have the specific virtue/skills you appreciate (Lahel in this case) is condemned for the same evil nature/flaw.Being fair means that you judge everyone the same.Condemn the same flaws in everyone equally regardless of the accompanying charisma or skill.When you do not do that ,that is double standard.

I forgot about the sociopaths.why would you characterise characters like Androssi not a sociopath?She doesnt' seem to care one way or the other anyway.She killed some people..big deal.She betrayed the team to save her own hide..big deal.She doesnt seem to care at all.

Why do you believe people wanting her head and her being important to the story are mutually exclusive? She is s terrible being, and obviously, there are plenty of those in the story, and countless more in the world of the Tower. Is her character complex? So far, she's the simplest one I've seen, other than Rak. She would do anything to climb the tower. At least FUG members have an ulterior motive and want to change the rules of the system. I feel as though you are no better than the people you are talking about, as you label them as black and white as they label Rachel.

Obviously wanting her head,means that you want her killed of the sooner the better.So that indicates a failure to understand and appreciate the importance of her character and what she brings to enrichen the story.
I obviously disagree about her being simple.And also I think that Rak is a character that in the later stages of Part 1 has been more developed ,has been given depth and in his "simple" honest ways as you call them shines with his difference from the rest of the regulars like a pearl.
You see Lahel as simply "someone who would do anything to climb the tower" and that is.Sure in this sentence of course could almost every other regular be described.She wants to see the stars,other regulars want to achieve something else,like revenge or meeting their family.But to summarise,in the way you did,they are simple there because the just "want to climb the tower" and most of them do anything to achieve that like kill and betray and whatnot.
I am sorry you feel like that about me,I dont' really do care much but it's your right to have that opinion about me.

Edited by Dimitraa, 11 February 2013 - 06:36 PM.

[Darklight]

The butthurt in this thread is so amusing. *tracks for giggles*