Kingdom

@noctis:

I will try to keep this brief (though I'll likely fail to):

 

   1. I refer only to you insofar as you are a representitive of Vendetta scans. My problem is with them not you personally and absolutely any instance where I have said or will continue to say the word "you" should be directly interpreted as "Vendetta scans" and thusly be taken to refer to the group as a whole. Indeed, you're the only member of the group that I approve of at all and which is why I chose to let you represent them, the rest of them simply tried to justify their actions and leave it at that.

 

 

   2. Regardless of how somebody treats you, treat them with kindness. If you cannot manage that, do not respond to them at all.

 

If a leecher gets an entitlement or any other type of complex then I heartily recommend ignoring that individual or simply removing them from your presence. However, the recent situation is completely different. We had better, further along scans that came about because you did not make it clear that you had claimed the project. Indeed, if even one of the following happened:

 

   a. Turnip Scans did not quit as a result of all this

   b. Vendetta scans had started with volume 6

   c. Vendetta scans did better translations, OR better quality, OR faster releases

 

Then generally speaking nobody would have a problem at all.

 

 

   3. As I've mentioned I'm not reffering to you specifically, I'm reffering to the various arguments that I've seen the other members make, such as they don't want to waste the translations / cleans they already have, or that they're doing it because they want their translation to be accurate so they've been referring to the anime scripts (and in the process, implying all others are wrong), or saying that it's Turnip Farmer's fault for not making their Email address easily findable on their website, and so on and so forth.

 

There is one major reason I began this debate though despite not being "involved" however: I'm trying to give people some closure though rational, logical debate. If some conclusion can be worked out that makes everybody happy or at least allows them to grudgingly move on, then fantastic.

 

I could stop right here if you like but the alternative is angry 14 year olds spamming your chat box with things along the lines of "I hope you guys get cancer and die", simply because they're angry, frustrated and have no idea how to form a rational argument. I'm debating with you here in the hopes that they won't continue do that.

@Amplify

 

Let me make several things clear, as you seem to be attacking me personally.

 

1) I was in no way involved with the taking of Kingdom. I found out along with the general public that Vendetta had picked up Kingdom, and felt annoyed as well that Vendetta had done so without warning the prior group. I went to the Turnip Farmers' website, and apologized directly to them, on behalf of Vendetta. This, however, does not mean that I will be apologetic to the "fans" of this manga, or act in a groveling manner on general forums like Batoto. After all, there is no reason why I should continue to feel apologetic for something that isn't my fault. This is exactly why people like you, who aren't even involved yet make judgments on the situation, infuriate me.

 

2) Is your little reference about a man's true nature supposed to be insulting? I make a distinction between leechers and fans, which you don't seem to understand. I am a member of Vendetta, and while I believe their recent decisions were poor ones, I will continue to defend my group as best as I can. Because of this, I've had a large amount of leechers flame me for something that was irrelevant to me. So forgive me if I don't restrain my contempt for people who don't do anything, and yet still find the time to go on scanlators' websites to bitch about quality. Those fans who come to our website to express helpful criticism or even just a simple "thanks" are people I've always appreciated. Don't make me laugh with your misplaced judgment.

 

3) I have not blamed anyone. I accept that this is basically entirely Vendetta's fault. However, this is not going to stop Vendetta from continuing to scanlate this manga however (as to my best knowledge, anyways). Furthermore, this is an issue that resides entirely between Vendetta and Turnip. So this is going to be my final comment (outside of the chatbox) to an outsider like yourself: "let's move on."

@Amplify and every other person complaining:

 

Let's get something straight: Despite the substantial amount of chapters they've put out, Turnip barely began work a MONTH ago. Vendetta Scans had been preparing to pick this up for just as long, if not longer, and had a lot of cleans and translations piled up. You really expect Vendetta to drop it after all that effort just because some duo came out of nowhere and began speed-releasing? Furthermore, the only real complaints about Vendetta's quality seem to be that Vendetta's translations aren't as nicely proofread. Well then, boohoo. Nobody's stopping Turnip from continuing their releases and nobody's stopping you from dropping this manga because Vendetta's releases aren't on par. In fact, I'm surprised Turnip's dropping this since they're so far ahead, and most people are going to read their releases anyways.

 

Also, good for you that you're not a leecher. I'm legitimately glad you do your part in the community, and I hope you continue to return to the community as a worker on whatever team you're on. But you're not on Turnip scans, are you? Vendetta approached Turnip with an offer for a joint, but they turned it down. Turnip is mad, sure, but they've claimed (officially) to be moving on. So why don't you?

 

Firstly, if you clean 17 volumes ahead without telling anybody, as well as meanwhile letting another group release several entire volumes of it before you start making it clear to people "Hey, we're preparing to work on this project in a big way", then the only person you have to blame is yourself. Nobody was stopping you putting out some kind of a P.S.A back when you'd only cleaned the first volume or whatever, or even only when you saw somebody else starting.

 

Secondly, the main complaints that people have are as follows:

   A. You decided to change all of your translations to "more accurately capture the original translation", including changing names to Chinese equivalents and sticking to phrases even if they make little to no sense in English, as long as that was literally what was said. Doesn't matter that 95% of people reading would primarily want translations that read well in English and which do not cause them to stop and scratch their heads, fuck those guys only your opinion is correct.

   B. You decided to start from chapter 1, even though the scans themselves are far from high quality, (let's face it) which is directly inferring in the process that "Only your translations are correct".

   C. You didn't give Turnip Farmers any sort of a clear warning back when you saw them release their first chapter, 3 weeks ago.

   D. You're not apologetic to anybody in the slightest for the way you've effectively completely disregarded everything that Turnip Farmers have done for the rest of us over the last few weeks.

 

Lastly, the only reason I began replying in the first place is because you seem to have a bit of an ego to you. It is not possible to see a man's true nature by how he treats his superiors or his equals, only by observing how he treats those who are below him can you see who he truly is. You make no bones about your contempt for leechers and I feel compelled to side with them and Turnip Farmers as a result.

 

Tell you what though; you stop trying to shift all of the blame to Turnip Farmers, to the leechers, to anybody else you can, etc or try to look like the victim here and you won't see any more comments from me, except for possibly a normal, everyday comment or two on the latest chapter or whatever.

@Amplify and every other person complaining:

 

Let's get something straight: Despite the substantial amount of chapters they've put out, Turnip barely began work a MONTH ago. Vendetta Scans had been preparing to pick this up for just as long, if not longer, and had a lot of cleans and translations piled up. You really expect Vendetta to drop it after all that effort just because some duo came out of nowhere and began speed-releasing? Furthermore, the only real complaints about Vendetta's quality seem to be that Vendetta's translations aren't as nicely proofread. Well then, boohoo. Nobody's stopping Turnip from continuing their releases and nobody's stopping you from dropping this manga because Vendetta's releases aren't on par. In fact, I'm surprised Turnip's dropping this since they're so far ahead, and most people are going to read their releases anyways.

 

Also, good for you that you're not a leecher. I'm legitimately glad you do your part in the community, and I hope you continue to return to the community as a worker on whatever team you're on. But you're not on Turnip scans, are you? Vendetta approached Turnip with an offer for a joint, but they turned it down. Turnip is mad, sure, but they've claimed (officially) to be moving on. So why don't you?

Spoiler

 

I've been a cleaner for well over a year and a typesetter for longer than that, as well as having taught and introduced around a dozen others in the art of typesetting / cleaning. Currently i'm with iMangaScans and i've personally lost count on how many chapters that i've worked on at this point.

 

Fuck your theory.

 

 

 

To be fair, your group's translation isn't the worst thing ever, but it is pretty poor all around (translation / cleaning / typesetting) and unless the raws are terrible quality i'm pretty sure that I could do a much better job with the cleaning with the same effort for a start.

 

Honestly, if Turnip Farmers hadn't existed then I (and probably others) wouldn't care, we would just be glad to see the series getting some love. However, what you guys have done is come along after we've all been greatly enjoying ourselves with scans that were all around better quality and faster, then completely disregarded them by starting from chapter one with all around worse quality that insists your translation alone is correct, at a slower pace and which caused the better, faster group to quit.

 

It's just downright insulting.

@noctis

 

Why are you throwing around this childish leecher insult? Isn't the whole point of scanlating to provide a free service to leechers? You can't just automatically disregard people's opinions by calling them 'leechers' when we're the only ones who are actually going to read and comment on your work.

 

I can understand calling people leechers when they demand something unreasonable from you, but in this case where your actions have caused another group to stop scanlating, of course people are going to complain. 

No, it's unlikely that I will get used to it, because I'm personally probably just going to drop Kingdom soon until either:

   A. Turnip Farmers (or anybody who doesn't automatically assume they alone are the last word on translations, regardless of the masses telling them otherwise) picks the series up again.

   B. Vendetta scans clues in that maybe, just maybe, people don't want Engrish and all the names changed "for the sake of authenticity".

 

Personally I've seen all kinds of translations for all kinds of manga, some of which were so good that the way the dialouge natrually flowed actually managed to make the base manga & story more fun and enjoyable to read than it otherwise may have been.

This however is the exact opposite and what I would expect from a native Chinese speaker who only speaks English as a 3th language. People can "get used to" anything eventually no matter how bad it may be (given few enough alternate options), but somewhere a line has to be drawn with every man's personal standards and mine has just been found with this.

The historical setting itself is based on China so we wanted to make the names close to that as well, yes it is confusing I know that so, but after a while you will get used to the key players in the manga and their names takes time 

 

No, it's unlikely that I will get used to it, because I'm personally probably just going to drop Kingdom soon until either:

   A. Turnip Farmers (or anybody who doesn't automatically assume they alone are the last word on translations, regardless of the masses telling them otherwise) picks the series up again.

   B. Vendetta scans clues in that maybe, just maybe, people don't want Engrish and all the names changed "for the sake of authenticity".

 

Personally I've seen all kinds of translations for all kinds of manga, some of which were so good that the way the dialouge natrually flowed actually managed to make the base manga & story more fun and enjoyable to read than it otherwise may have been.

This however is the exact opposite and what I would expect from a native Chinese speaker who only speaks English as a 3th language. People can "get used to" anything eventually no matter how bad it may be (given few enough alternate options), but somewhere a line has to be drawn with every man's personal standards and mine has just been found with this.

Well. Damn. Guess I'll just wait until Turnip picks it back up, if and when Vendetta slows down on their releases.

The historical setting itself is based on China so we wanted to make the names close to that as well, yes it is confusing I know that so, but after a while you will get used to the key players in the manga and their names takes time 

Had to sign in to give an internet salute to the Turnip Farmers. Appreciated your work on this manga, and I wish you luck in your future endeavors. Thanks for everything.

Thanks for all of the hardwork Turnip farmers, it's too bad this had to happen. Guess I'll have to be content with Vendetta Scans but it just won't be the same having read like 20+ chapters from you guys

 

But thanks again for everything!

page 19... hawwwt!!!... wooott woott!!

 

Turnip Farmers,     

for real? :,(

Did I read that right?

Sorry guys, we probably won't be scanlating Kingdom anymore. If you want more details I guess you can check out our wordpress post.

Hmm, good point there, spears were made to hunt everything under heaven, swords were made only to hunt man, guess that's the distinction it was trying to make. The chinese were pretty innovative to "finish off games", tools were optional, so I won't hold daggers and such against you :3

@falconbane
Spears (along with bows) had a background in being used in hunting long before they were used as implements of war though. I think the emphasis is largely that swords were developed solely to ruin some other poor sucker's day. Although, I guess if you include long daggers or knives used to finish off game or other mundane purposes, that point might be moot.

Lol, this is just too awesome. I've been reading this for a while now, but my feelings have actually exploded enough for me to comment. Liking this epic shizz. Your Drill shall be the one to pierce through the heavens, Shin.

@Turnip Farmers
Why are you so awesome......

@becauseiamacat

Baldy could indeed be an insult to "chinese" depending on the then-present custom and tribe (aside from Han, there were a bunch of others, which also ruled various parts of China). Being shaved bald without "leaving the world" (monk) was indeed an insult as it implies you are a lowlife/criminal/whathaveyou, it's similar with tattoos (and something in conjunction with tattoo) used to mark someone for life as a criminal.

As for the stance, doesn't really matter since we don't know what stance they used back then, it could very well be that sort of stance, we simply don't know, so creative license is appropriate here. Also, Chinese were known for reinventing the wheels and having it reinvented for them (anyone remember the printing press? Or the numerous take on the same martial arts?)

Just a bit of history to help with any ignorance that prevents you from enjoying the series at its fullest. I do have an issue with the sword being the prime weapon to evolve though, spears (including polearms) evolved waaayyyyy more than the sword did.

@popske
I regret watching the crappy anime after reading the manga. Stick to the manga in case you haven't started. Story wise it's the same level of epicness with some parts not included in the anime(from small details to an entire arc). Art/animation wise, the manga beats the anime any day.

holy crap, so awesome manga, and i remember seeing this anime but i thought it was crappy because i thought it looked like it was for little kids, man im so stupid i should watch it.

Bajio And Zoro both bad asses both terrible with directions

@KassIno
NFUFUFU~