57 replies to this topic

[Njmanga]

For all the fans of Bokura no kiseki , can you link the past with the present, which charactor in the present is a charactor of the past, who are villains and who are heroes, What has happened, why did everyone reincarnate in the same present, and who is the final boss, Post and discuss theories and speculations and who vs who.

[Njmanga]

BIG QUESTION: WHO WILL REVEAL THEMSELVES AS THE PRINCE WHO WAS TO MARRY HER AND WHO IS THE FINAL MEANING WHO IS THE ONE WHO START THE WAR THAT KILLED THEM ALL. My theory Zeze he is to quiet I think he is the one who started it all in the past, the attack on the castle everything, he is to quiet and looks like he knows alot more

[sardonic]

Well, first off, thanks for picking this series up again.

So far we know that...

Central characters:
Minami Harusumi = Princess Veronica of Zerestria
Takao Haruko = Rida Razaresare, Veronica's bodyguard
Midou Ryuuji = Gerald Frolio, a priest from the Church working at Veronica's Castle
Nishizono Momoka = Lilli Eccleston, a priestess from the same Church
Motoi = an unnamed knight of Moswick
Nanaura = Cotton Orway (lol his name), a squire from Zerestria
Hiroki Yuu = ??? (pretending to be Veronica)
Zeze = ???

Classmates:
Ootomo = Carlo Velbard, a priest of the Church; #2 only to the Bishop
Tsuzuki = Zerestrian
Meguro = Zerestrian
Teshimano = Moswickian
Unnamed black-haired guy with glasses (attacked by Meguro) = Moswickian

Others:
Kamioka - Minami's friend from middle school. In a different class, she seems to be unrelated to the past.

Characters from the past:
Glen Schreiber (Zerestria) = ???
Prince Eugene (Moswick) = ???

My theories:
I don't know why Hiroki is pretending to be Veronica, but I do have a guess as to her true identity; seeing as how she's so knowledgeable about the castle and its inhabitants, as well as remembering Glen and Veronica's first meeting, I think she's actually one of the squires of Zerestria. In fact, I believe she's the (currently unnamed) squire that calls out to Glen on this page. When Hiroki talks about Zerestria, this character's figure tends to show up.

Zeze is a mysterious one... Like you said, he's quiet, and seems to be the type that likes to stay quiet and bide his time. He also comes across as kind of sneaky and calculating. If he turned out to be Prince Eugene, that would be interesting. He's a tough one to figure out.

Then there's Glen. TBH, I can't help but think that Kamioka = Glen. But Kamioka is in a different class and so should technically not be related to past events. And while she had a significant role in chapter #00, she's relegated to a more minor role from chapter #01 onwards, where Takao appears to be the heroine. Minami doesn't want Kamioka to get involved with the Zerestrian-Moswickian feud, either, so her role is significantly reduced. Even so, the role she plays as Minami's first friend is important to the story. In #00, she indirectly makes him realize that he must adapt to life in the present as Minami, and not as Veronica, while still accepting his claims that he was a Princess. I think that had a big effect on Minami; Kamioka never shunned that part of him, and we see Minami wanting to live with collective knowledge of both worlds rather than one-sidedly sticking to one.

That said, i think Kamioka is like a symbol of "normal" life for Minami, someone who's completely unrelated to the past, and doesn't want to get innocents involved. She's his first real friend and is important to him. I don't really want to get into the whole Kamioka vs. Takao debate so I'll leave it at that.

Edited by sardonic, 09 September 2012 - 11:23 PM.

[taropanda]

With Chapter 9, we now know that Hiroki Yuu was Bart Belbania. Did anyone else notice that Takao looked a bit relieved when they found out Hiroki wasn't Glen, but Bart? I wonder as well if Rida had romantic feelings for Veronica, or more of friendship?

The latest chapters seems to dispel any thought of Kamioka being involved in this whole mess. With her fear of being attacked and so on, if anything it seems like she would have remembered more if she was involved due to her exposure to Minami. The ones involved seem to be exclusively class 4 for the time being.
If anything, I feel as if there is a slight possiblity that Zeze could also be Glen. Though it is a very slim chance. It just seems like his carefree attitude is similar to Glenn's. But I too feel like Zeze knows who he is. Everyone else, no matter how low of a status they were in the castle remembered.

--

I'm wondering if everyone at the castle was reincarnated, or only a select few. According to Hiroki in Chapter 5 on pages 25-26 she listed out everyone that was at the castle.

Zerestria

Veronica (Harasumi)
3 Guards (Rida/Takao)
7 Squires (Bart/Hiroki, Glen/???, Cotton/Nanaura, Tsuzuki, Meguro)
16 Foot Soldiers
15 Servants

Church

Bishop
6 Priests (Carlo/Ootomo, Midou/Gerald, Momoka/Lilly)

Moswick

Prince Eugene
6 guards (Nishina, Teshimano, Motoi)
11 servants (Blond guy on pg 48 of ch.9)

Unknowns

Zeze
Yanuma (glasses guy who did the graffiti)
Other people in the class - seems like a bunch of them were servants for both sides, I can't really put them in the count for now.
Possibly one more priest (pg 9 of ch.9) - shows another person walking with the other 3 identified priests, probably a priest herself


For a total of 67 people who lived at the castle. This is excluding the Moswick invaders. For example the 6 guards of Moswick, I wonder if Motoi, Nishina, and Teshimano were the guards or the invaders? It seems like they might've been the guards since they did not know Moswick would invade.

So there could have been even more people who reincarnated than the 67.

And if everyone of that 67 (or more) was not killed by magic, they were not reincarnated. So the total number of reincarnations could be over or under 67.

However, in a Japanese class, I think the size is normally around 30? So if only Class 4 is involved, only 30 were reincarnated, and probably only the central characters.

According to numbers for now, 13 people have been identified out of 67 for sure, their identities are known. Then there's 2 more with questionable identites - Zeze, and graffiti glasses guy. And finally, people in the class left to be sorted but some seemed to have identified as servants. So maybe it's more like 15/67 possible that can actually count for sure and is not ambiguous in number.
--

What doesn't make sense to me is the fact that the priests ended up being reincarnated. It seems like the giant pillar of light that Gerald saw was the thing that took out everyone in the castle. And none of the church was allowed to help out in the fight, so how did they die? Midou's flashbacks have him standing from the church viewing the castle.

So yes the Moswicks attacked, but it does not seem like they were the ones that ended up killing everyone? Or I'm viewing things incorrectly.

Because people get reincarnated when they die of magic. Did everyone die by magic? Some people could have been killed by weapons instead.
Was the white light a magic that killed everyone in the castle in addition to the magic people were using against each other?

Edited by marshmallowlver, 23 September 2012 - 11:07 AM.

[sardonic]

So Hiroki is Bart. Takao always looks a bit uneasy when Glen is mentioned, lol. I think that's more because she's Takao and is Minami's girlfriend rather than it being because Rida had feelings for Veronica. Well, you never know with this manga; there's never a dull moment.

Also, I think the average class size in a Japanese high school is over 30. It might lean a little closer to 40, but don't quote me on it. I'm not too sure about how the headcount works out in the end and I haven't gone back to re-read the previous chapters yet, so I can't recall how even the priests kicked the bucket. Unless that magical light obliterated every single person and thing in its vicinity, including the Church.

[Milkcoffee]

Did anyone else notice that Takao looked a bit relieved when they found out Hiroki wasn't Glen, but Bart? I wonder as well if Rida had romantic feelings for Veronica, or more of friendship?

Eh? It seems more to be like she's blushing. Maybe she has feelings for Bart in the past? Like the four of them are always together, you see.
Veronica & Glen, Rida & Bart, perhaps? :b

But I do think that Zeze is Glen too. XD I just have the feeling. Since he's one of the main characters (Those in the clique), I seriously don't think he's gonna be a villain.

[rage bunny]

Javia's words in front comments made me think...

so Zeze is the Prince of Moswick?is that the clue?.
also,i still think Hiroki is the Prince Glen and she lied about being the other brother(Bart)maybe because some of her/his past selve inner troubles(most likely being about his bloodline,etc)maybe he wanted to be like his brother or something.also, she looks more like Glen than the other brother,and everyone looks a lot like their past-life selves(i mean at least they are drawn with the same kind of eye-shape), the personalities fits better .and more important this Paralell. i'm not sure,it could not be like that but i'm still not buying it.

Takao's reaction was ambiguous for me. It can be relieved... but for me it looks like... sad? Maybe she realized that Yuu is Glen not Bart and not too happy with that? And the way Minami grab Yuu's hand is the same scene where Veronica grabs Glen's hand (although same scene in present and past is not a definite evidence, just like how their eyes shape looks alike). Well, it's only my speculation though...


Anyway I want to write something here because suddenly I remember the first chapter, when mysterious student attacked Kamioka. If we assume only Minami/Veronica remember the past, and some students remember because the saw Minami's notebook, it makes me think that Zeze is the attacker, whoever he is in the past.


Students identified read Minami's notebook is (correct me if I'm wrong):
Nishizono Momoka (Lili), Hiroki Yuu (Bart), Midou Ryuuji (Gerald), Zeze, and 2 seen in silhouette (one is Tsuzuki).

Students identified saw the magic (lights) from another school wings (minus Takao & Minami):
Nishizono Momoka (Lili), Hiroki Yuu (Bart), Midou Ryuuji (Gerald), Nanaura & Motoi.

There's no Zeze >D

Edited by misukoniro, 07 October 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[YellowKingValley]

Hiroki = Glen. I agree. Eye and personality seems Glen-like

Takao likes Bart! Love triangle incoming...

Surprised that a priest attacked Kamioka. So among the priests:

Ootomo Katsuya - Carlo Velbard
Midou Ryuuji - Gerald Frolio
Nishizono Momoka - Lilly Eccleston
Yamada Mizuki - Patty Herschel
Maki Yuna - Sydney Bale

And this statement:

At that time there were only 4 priests. The bishop and I, as well as one other... came later.

Mystery priest yet to appear!

[sardonic]

So after reading chapter 12, I wonder who that mystery priest was... And who really attacked Kamioka.

The plot thickens...

Also, I can see where you're all coming from when you say you think Hiroki = Glen. Personality-wise, she's very similar to him and quite the opposite of Bart. All her flashbacks have both Bart and Glen in them, too, making it all the more confusing. She even implies that Bart was a real stiff. I'm not completely sold yet, but an argument can definitely be made.

Takao likes Bart! Love triangle incoming...

Where did that come from? Did I miss something reading chapter 12? Haha.

[Secundum]

There is no basis for that in the manga.

I think she's Bart, as when she was going to kill Minami, she identified herself as Bart.
She had no reason to lie then.

As for the priest who left the footprint-type magic mark, I reckon it was The Bishop, and he started the war.

[jojo1]

i just caught up in the latest chap, so friggin` awesome, thanks deus ex scans~
here's my theory, I'm not sure though....

zeze = could be Prince Eugene....i trust my gut feeling, but it would be yaoi

and if ....
nanaura who lied he is Cotton Orway, then he could be Lucas Langeais the 5th priest who hurts/Injured kamioka...i have a doubt here

aaand...
i still don't know who is Kamioka...

Edited by jojo1, 13 February 2013 - 03:14 PM.

[Tenshinchigi]

Zeze = Glen I'm 100% certain

--> he has no reaction to hearing that Veronica and Glen were lovers and later he has the exact same reaction as the squires when he hears Veronica and Glen were not lovers.
--> He might remember his past just like Minami (it looks like he recognizes the language before saying he doesn't know it)
--> In the past Glen said he would keep his distance from Veronica so that there wouldn't be any more misunderstandings which leads to....
-------> Zeze working behind the scenes to get Hiroki and Minami to make up
--> if you read the conversation between Zeze and Minami about Glen and Veronica it sounds an awful lot like Zeze is trying to figure out what if anything Veronica felt for Glen.

There are also other little indicators, like how Zeze keeps a close eye on Minami when he's around and how indifferent he is towards danger (you'll notice Zeze is the only one that has no meaningful reaction)


Also...and the rest of this is just speculation, but I think a spell was cast on the castle. I believe it involves the blood of royalty, and that they might currently be stuck in it. I think this for 3 reasons:

1. There should be no reason to disrupt, attack, or cause discord in their current world. Just not saying anything should be enough to live under the radar and get through life if one is the culprit.
2. There seems to be an unusual number of memory gaps, for some reason Veronica was heading somewhere to do something that she thinks would save everyone, but Minami can't remember what that was, and:
3. The spirits(?) who seem to be talking to Minami.

Nananura is hard to pin down though. Even if he isn't Cotton Orway then he must be someone who knew him very well, or have someone feeding him information. The strange part is how he knows things only a squire would know...but he still doesn't know Minami is Veronica. The information he's getting can't possibly be from Minami's group otherwise he'd know Minami is Veronica. So he's not spying, and no one is informing him, the only possible way to get his information would be from Cotton himself, since there's no one else who knows about Veronica and Glen. So I guess the real question would be "what did he lie about?" he admits that he tricked everyone...but about what exactly?

just a note this guy with black hair bothers me. He shows up a few times but never says anything relevant, at the same time he kinda has this snarky know-it-all look to him. Though the only reason I point him out is because he seems like one of those guns you find so often on mantelpieces, so I could just be reading into it to much.


So there's a rough outline of most of my theories.

[svines85]

Man, this just keeps getting better and better. At the least we got some info on at least one of the factions and the make up of it, though there's still no telling exactly who they really are.

[Tenshinchigi]

Man, this just keeps getting better and better. At the least we got some info on at least one of the factions and the make up of it, though there's still no telling exactly who they really are.

I don't know if that's entirely true, at the very least we know one of the guys in the shadows is the squire Cotton Orway. He's the one who's been feeding information to Nanaura and using him as a spy.

[svines85]

I don't know if that's entirely true, at the very least we know one of the guys in the shadows is the squire Cotton Orway. He's the one who's been feeding information to Nanaura and using him as a spy.

I guess my view would be that anybody could be lying about their past lives as far as what they've told the rest of the class.. Besides our main characters, the people who we've actually seen their thoughts and memories of who they truly were in their past lives are very few.........though I have to admit, I don't specifically remember in the case of the character you're talking about, you may well be right in his case.

[Adrogans]

Nah I think Zeze is the Prince. If so then he could easily have fed the information to Nanaura from the meeting they had earlier with all those 'who know I'm the princess.' They discussed the discrepancy in front of him. I also agree with those who think Hiroki is actually Glen there just seems to be a slight hesitation before she announces she is Bart when re looking at her memory scene when she reveals who she is and the fact she cannot use magic. It's also hard for me to think Kamioka is not a reincarnation. Personally I Think the Prince wasn't really in on it so much as had no choice, I think the real movers is the Church for some reason and they used the Bishop to force the Prince to help him. Just can't shake that feeling.

EDIT - Also if you look at the speech bubbles when they are first making the list of who's who Prince Eugene's bubble is placed in front of Zeze and Princess Veronica's is placed in front of Minami and that just seems so blatant. I also saw a mention that during the class basketball game Zeze has his #3 on backward making it an E. Weird but it's there.

Edited by Adrogans, 13 March 2013 - 07:46 PM.

[svines85]

Well, as to who he actually was I have no idea yet, but I too think Zeze is bound to be an important part in all this............like you said, he's been central to almost everything that's gone on but has never shown his hand and also professes to not want to know about the past. Seems pretty suspicious given the setting and everyone else's behavior............he's just too cool to not make me think he's a major player.

[Adrogans]

I have been wondering if the Prince (or Bishop as I am now beginning to believe) and Nanaura chose to have Nanaura play the part of the squire Cotton because they know he didn't die to magic and therefore cannot be reincarnated. If so that was well played but would also certainly mean they killed Cotton directly. I still wonder though because only about 1/3 have shown themselves and in addition certainly some of the invading soldiers died from magic where are they? The only Moswicks have been from the Prince's retinue who seem to have sided with Veronica in the end. That just strikes me as odd. So if you add in the possibility of enemy combatants beinf reincarnated also and maybe the odd camp follower or random traveller the number of actual reincarnated people can climb drastically.

EDIT - Does anyone else get the feeling Glen was a traitor and that's the real reason why Minami/Veronica wants to meet him?

Edited by Adrogans, 13 March 2013 - 10:58 PM.

[Tenshinchigi]

<p>Ok there are a few problems with your hypothesis.  First off, if Cotton is dead then who told Nanaura his life story?  They only people who could know it are Bart and Bart's elder brother (I forgot his name) Glen was apparently at war for quite a long time, and wouldn't know first hand what happened. That means if Cotton died and Nanaura is taking his place then either Bart or the eldest brother is a traitor; and as far as we know the eldest brother wasn't there.  As for Hiroki being Glen, she wouldn't have been able to verify Nanaura's story if she really was Glen.  That and Zeze is Glen also supports a pet theory of mine about the war.

Another point I'd like to make is that the author likes to make things super vague where Bart and Glen are concerned.  There's never a time where Bart or Glen aren't together in a memoey, and even though there is one time that happens (Hiroki's dream) It switches between Bart and Glen so we have no idea who's who.  It just smells way to fishy to me.

[ninjagirlqk]

this seems kinda dumb to say, but what proof do we have that the characters are actually dead? and also alot of them probably died from a sword wound or something like that instead of magic. thought i'd say this and I would love to hear other people's opinions on the matter.