29 replies to this topic

[Katzilla]

Whether learning the language is fun or not is actually quite subjective. Some people may find the novelty of learning it exciting, but that's probably not what you were getting at.

Another thing about contractions is to try not to use them in a story's narration.

The ninja couldn't belive the size of the wall he had to climb. The other ninjas weren't joking when they said it's next to impossible to climb it.
OR
The ninja could not believe the size of the wall he had to climb. The other ninjas were not joking when they said it is next to impossible to climb.

Which line looks better?

From my knowledge of a few translator friends, they go with the feel and atmosphere, or the speaker. For example, if a businessman/manager or a politician was narrating the line, they might use less contractions. If the narrater was a young high school teenager, they'd use more. Course, there are exceptions, with characters having different personalities. A good translator would look at the original text and try to deduce the right "feel" from it, and go with that. Basically, what you said.

About your last paragraph, this is sadly very common. A lot of current groups, especially in fansubs, refuse to translate certain words or phrases and simply leave a translator note about it, saying that they're difficult to translate to English properly. This not only distract the reader/viewer with so many TNs, but also makes the work less comprehensible, especially when you end up with so many Japanese terms that you'd need to memorise. A good translator would do their search in trying to find an equivalent term or a phrase in English instead of just slapping a note at the bottom.

Edited by Katsuri, 26 January 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[soranokira]

Honestly though, in fansubs, hearing characters say 'Onii-chan' and reading 'Onii-chan' sounds a lot better than reading it as 'Brother'. Especially consider the suffix that is lost in translation.
similarly, character trademarks should be left as they are in order to keep the feel e.g. 'Nishishishi' and 'Nii-nii' by Miya in Amagami SS. (A more common example might be 'Fufu' which is literally a different kind of laughter that has no accurate translation in English.)

@Graeystone: I personally don't think your example is a good one because the 2nd line will most certainly sound better due to the fact there is actually a emphasis in the 'not' that needs to be there (in my own words I'd put it as 'The ninja could NOT believe the size of the wall he had to climb', simply because by capitalizing the 'not' I deliver the shock/disbelief/astonishment of the ninja.)

[Liar]

About your last paragraph, this is sadly very common. A lot of current groups, especially in fansubs, refuse to translate certain words or phrases and simply leave a translator note about it, saying that they're difficult to translate to English properly. This not only distract the reader/viewer with so many TNs, but also makes the work less comprehensible, especially when you end up with so many Japanese terms that you'd need to memorise. A good translator would do their search in trying to find an equivalent term or a phrase in English instead of just slapping a note at the bottom.

What do you specifically mean exactly?

There are many cases in which the Japanese term is better left there in order for the message to get across better such as the names of nouns.

[Graeystone]

Honestly though, in fansubs, hearing characters say 'Onii-chan' and reading 'Onii-chan' sounds a lot better than reading it as 'Brother'. Especially consider the suffix that is lost in translation.
similarly, character trademarks should be left as they are in order to keep the feel e.g. 'Nishishishi' and 'Nii-nii' by Miya in Amagami SS. (A more common example might be 'Fufu' which is literally a different kind of laughter that has no accurate translation in English.)

@Graeystone: I personally don't think your example is a good one because the 2nd line will most certainly sound better due to the fact there is actually a emphasis in the 'not' that needs to be there (in my own words I'd put it as 'The ninja could NOT believe the size of the wall he had to climb', simply because by capitalizing the 'not' I deliver the shock/disbelief/astonishment of the ninja.)

If you want to emiphize a single word then do this.

'The ninja could not believe the size of the wall he had to climb.' One word using bold.

Emphizing more than one word.
'The ninja could not believe the size of the wall he had to climb.' Multiple words using italics.

The reason for using bold for one word is because bolding too many words in a row does look annoying. While italics convey more than one word it is not as 'loud' as bold.

[Katzilla]

What do you specifically mean exactly?

There are many cases in which the Japanese term is better left there in order for the message to get across better such as the names of nouns.

One example I see often is "Nakama". It can mean friends or comrades, depending on the context, so why not present it as such? One Piece and Fairy Tail scans are most guilty of this.

[MezzoParody]

Another thing about contractions is to try not to use them in a story's narration.

That depends entirely on the type of narrating voice being used. Even if they're an onlooker and not a character in the story, or if they're totally omniscient, every narrator uses a different style. Some are more prone to formal language than others. I'll admit though, that some translators (or even amateur writers) can put too much casual language in the narration, to the point that it seems awkward. But on the other hand, purposefully avoiding contractions can also make the language stiff, and give it a bad flow. It's a contextual thing that can be really difficult to discern, even for native speakers.

There is about a thousand or more nuances in English that can make or break the most simple of sentences.

This. I'd wager it's actually far more than a thousand, especially when regional cultures are considered. Every region has their own concept of formal, cool, rude, funny, etc., and very few of them are completely universal in the language. It's a deliciously intricate language with a great number of levels and layers, which can of course make it a pain in the ass when translating, writing, proofreading, or anything regarding actually thinking about it!

[Cʜɪʟʟɪɴ_Pᴀɴᴅᴀ]

I know i don't add anything new in this thread but i came to say this to all of you

I am officially inviting all of you to write a manga story and doing it continuously.
At fisrt we are planning to make a oneshot after that we can consider what will we do.
We have two sections for this purpose
1st Story part >> We will need talented Native or ver well English users and advisors
2nd Graphics Part >> We will need talented Photoshop users and Scretch drawers

Additional helps: We will give credits for everyone who works on this project and we will give special thanks to all advisors. This Manga won't be published and it will be available on only Batoto. This is Our Manga. Please do not hesitate to contact me directly for attending our group.
Besides We can do this
I Believe this with my all heart
Sincerely
Leonardo (mfozgur - Fozzy - foz )
(I wish i didn't change my nick)

[Graeystone]

Leonardo - Unfortunately I have to say 'no' for now. Anyway I have an idea I'd like to try some day. Its not a oneshot like you are doing. Its meant for the long haul.

On a side note about Engrish-

Edited by Graeystone, 26 March 2012 - 08:39 PM.

[Ivy]

Or how about this! I was enjoying Tentai Senshi Sunred on an anime site and the fan-subs by the translating group were very good. They had done the karaoke for the OST and EDs and had even edited out some over-suggestive word the evil general had used to describe himself and used "super freak" instead. That made is safe for kids to watch. Great job, right? So my bro buys the first season of Sunred and the "professional" subbers didn't do the karaoke of the OP/ED songs and left in the over-suggestive word.

You have to take into account that the deadlines for the translations of audiovisual products are very narrow. The studios only give the translator 2-3 days to translate something, let's imagine it's a film.

However, a group dubbing as a hobbie has more time, so they can think of a good number of alternatives to a word that doesn't seem correct in that context or for the target audience. Also, translating or not the openings is usually a decision of the studio, not the translator. Most of the times the translator gets all the fault if something in the final product sounds "weird", even if that is a last-minute change made by the studio or the marketing department, and not something (s)he included in the text.

Why are the deadlines so strict? Because the studio must plan everything on advance. For example:

- 3 days to translate one film, x amount of money for the translator,
- 4 days for dubbing/subtitling it, z amount of money for the dubbing actors,
- 1 day for sound effects, w salary for the person in charge of that,
- 15 days to get all the work done with the amount of money assigned to this project.

Think of it as something similar to an assembly line. If the translator submit the translation even just one day later, they won't hire him/her ever again, because the process was delayed and so the studio has lost time and money. So, translators need to do what they can in those 2-3 days.

Also, usually the translator is asked to do other jobs besides the translation:

- If the film is dubbed, the translators have to fit the dialogues with the movement of the mouth and the time the characters have their mouths open. The characters can't keep talking if the image shows they have their mouths closed.

- If the film is subtitled, the limit of characters (not letters) per sentence is 35-40. There can only be 2 sentences shown in the screen at the same time, and the 2 sentences together must not be more than 70 characters. The sentence must appear in the screen at least for 2-3 seconds, up to a maximum of 6 seconds. Street noises, radio or TV broadcasts, lyrics of a song if it's meaningful, etc., that all should be also subtitled. The translator needs to have all of this in mind when translating a film for subtitling.


Summing up this loooong post, time is a luxury in the field of profesional audiovisual translation. xD I'm sure there are quite some mistakes and weird sentences, but English is not my first language. At least I hope it's more or less understandable.

Edited by Ivy, 08 July 2012 - 01:34 AM.

[foxyeisenhower]

One example I see often is "Nakama". It can mean friends or comrades, depending on the context, so why not present it as such? One Piece and Fairy Tail scans are most guilty of this.

NAKAMA!
I grew up with "nakama" scans so that one doesn't bother me as much. It's definitely not correct but the sentiment for the word is still left over from middle school lol

In my case poorly worded or bad english translations do bother me but unless they keep me from understanding the manga I don't really care. The only translations that really bothered me were the scans of Kenichi after mangastream stopped translating it that were practically google translate, and a volume of GTO that someone did in Comic Life that looked ugly as sin and was literally unreadable because of dark blue speech bubbles

Spoiler

this kind of thing is annoying for a second because it's spelled klutz not clutz, I notice tiny editing mistakes like this all the time in every manga I read but I don't care overall since its mostly accurate
in this case I just feel sorry for whoever has to translate minori's lines from nonsense to japanese to english

edit: forgot to make a point

localization is the least important step in the scanlation process, a bare minimum of readability is all I expect from hobby translators

Edited by foxyeisenhower, 08 July 2012 - 05:40 AM.