29 replies to this topic

[FunnyBunnyLogic]

I want you to post examples of poor or questionable translations from your favorite comics and then explain why you feel the "original" was off and what you would replace it with. I hope this will be something everyone will appreciate and find useful.

I will start by illustrating how a sentence can be correctly constructed with similar words based on the definitions, but does not impart the same meaning or context.

For example:

a.
Girl! Don't go there!

vs.

b.
Female! Prohibited move on!

On the surface they appear to be the same, don't they? The words that were chosen mean virtually the same thing:
girl/female, don't/prohibited, go/move, there/on.

Both examples ARE the same if you only consider the literal definition of the words used. You will notice, that even though the words are the same, the intent and the speaker are different.

In example “a” the intended speaker is a young woman who is conversing with her friend. The friend has just done or said something outrageous. The intention of the statement, is an exclamation of her chagrin with what her friend has done.

In example “b” the intended speaker is a soldier who is speaking to a female who has entered a restricted area. The soldier intents for her to move on because she is not permitted there.

Some would infer if the words mean the same thing and the proper form and placement are used, then the intended meaning should come across... but that is like saying every snow flake is the same.

Now, you're wondering: “How do snow flakes apply to writing and therefore, to translation?”

Bear with me... I'm getting there!

In a scientific sense, every snow flake is the same as any other. They are composed of the same elements and each is created in a similar way. The differences are in the aesthetic. The pattern that is formed when the crystals in the water freeze, causing each to have a distinct pattern, leaving no two alike. Because the aesthetic difference, we are able to appreciate the beauty of each individual flake.

The reason I use the snow flake metaphor is because every person has their own unique way of speaking. The world is populated with almost 400 million English speakers. Of that number, there are numerous dialects used. For example Australian, British, Canadian, Ebonics, United States (Northern, Southern).

Typically, each individual will adapt their native tongue in a way that is comfortable for them. There are several factors that will steer someone in one direction or another. The way you speak is dependent upon your environment (where you live), your education level (or lack there of), your occupation and your social status.

Because there are many ways to speak in English, it makes the translation process difficult. Of course that is why I tend to believe in the "interpretation" method. In essence, one would take the general meaning and context of the passage they are trying to convert into another language and then apply it with common vernacular based on who the speaker is. Of course, at the onset of a "translation" it can be difficult to establish the specific type of personality the character exhibits, but it does get easier as you go on!

So, now that I've spouted about my ideas and such for the past little while, I will provide an example from a manga I picked up not too long ago:

Bokutachi wa Shitteshimatta, Chapter 18, pages 44-45:


ORG. “You've gotta talk. You defended me from her, Ibuki-san...”

The above is awkward, though it does impart the general meaning that was intended: it is a “sarcastic” statement where the speaker is saying: “You are not one who can speak about this or that.” what they should have used was:

EDIT. “You should talk! You stood up to her for me, Ibuki-san...”

Why? Because that is the “common vernacular” for that statement... It is possible that there is someone that would use “ORG”, but it is more likely (in the US) that you will hear someone say “EDIT”.

Another Example:

ORG. “I'm sorry... I wish I had thought of anything better to say, but... if she will pick on you again like she did together with the other girls today, then...”

EDIT. “I'm sorry... I wish I thought of something better to say, but... if she picks on you with the other girls like she did today, then...

WHY. The overall aesthetic of the original sentence is awkward and too wordy. Terms like “anything” and the phrase “did together with” are far from common in (American) English and you can tell with just this sentence that who ever translated the original is not familiar with common usage and form.


NOW IT'S YOUR TURN!!!

[8ronte]

You have too much time on your hands. -.-

lol : P

[semperspes]

i don't read bad translations because a) waste of my time it's painful c) I'm not going to edit so that's just more uncorrected evil out there in the world

T-T noblesse

[Grumpy]

Female! Prohibited move on!

I lol'ed.

[mfkevinking]

i don't read bad translations because a) waste of my time it's painful c) I'm not going to edit so that's just more uncorrected evil out there in the world

T-T noblesse

Lol, poor thing. I almost regret informing you about the reason I didn't read Noblesse.

[Trebor]

Lol, poor thing. I almost regret informing you about the reason I didn't read Noblesse.

Noblesse is so-so. Sometimes it's okay, sometimes it's not. EG Scans is doing a decent job so far... but what I really hate are speedscans, or one-man groups. I remember the speedsub days of certain anime, when the established groups stopped/weren't fast enough, and they just slapped words onto the screen.

This blog post was pretty epic, for example. Part of it is bad translation errors, but even if you know your translation is bad, you could at least package it into readable English.

Edited by Trebor, 27 January 2011 - 01:49 PM.

[8ronte]

This blog post was pretty epic, for example. Part of it is bad translation errors, but even if you know your translation is bad, you could at least package it into readable English.

He He... that blog made me laugh : D

Also I agree, EGscans are not too bad most of the time, which makes them bearable but then again, I have read some translations that were far far worse....

[Canisferus]

Yeah, I catch your drift, Mr Bunny. Let me edit your "edit" further:


"EDIT. 'I'm sorry... I wish I thought of something better to say, but... if she picks on you with the other girls like she did today, then...' "

Canis Edit: "I'm sorry... I wish I'd thought of something better to say, but... if she picks on you and the other girls again like she did today, then..."

I include the word "again" because in English this is a conditional construction and the speaker seems to be set on a course of action IF the antagonist repeats the same action.

Phwew! Now that that's out of the way As you say the words may appear the same but there are nuances of meaning. In English, "Female" is a word used by EMTs and doctors and not a vocative. "With" has different uses from "And". "And" in English is a universal conjunction whereas in Japanese there are certain specific "And"s depending on how much or how general. It's kind of intriguing how all these words carry similar yet slightly different concepts.

However, the fun ends when I'm trying to keep up with a drama on Mysoju or Asianrice and I have to unravel the meaning of a mistranslated phrase while the plot is rushing past.

Or how about this! I was enjoying Tentai Senshi Sunred on an anime site and the fan-subs by the translating group were very good. They had done the karaoke for the OST and EDs and had even edited out some over-suggestive word the evil general had used to describe himself and used "super freak" instead. That made is safe for kids to watch. Great job, right? So my bro buys the first season of Sunred and the "professional" subbers didn't do the karaoke of the OP/ED songs and left in the over-suggestive word.

So there are lots of ways to fail in translating/subbing. The Company's translating crew's experience in both English and Korean is impressive. When I started reading Kubera I wondered if this was an American comic. And I like how they leave in the respectful terms of address in Green Boy to keep a Korean flavor to it and let the reader know that this is a Korean story.

[Canisferus]

Sorry double post.

[semperspes]

I include the word "again" because in English this is a conditional construction and the speaker seems to be set on a course of action IF the antagonist repeats the same action.

again squiggly equals "like she did today" or wahtever the phrase was, so I don't think it's playing any necessary role in the sentence. I'd have gone without the "again" even if it had been there in the first place because for a vehement tone we really don't want to be getting long-winded.

Phwew! Now that that's out of the way As you say the words may appear the same but there are nuances of meaning. In English, "Female" is a word used by EMTs and doctors and not a vocative. "With" has different uses from "And". "And" in English is a universal conjunction whereas in Japanese there are certain specific "And"s depending on how much or how general. It's kind of intriguing how all these words carry similar yet slightly different concepts.

I think the meaning of the sentence was changed when you changed conjunctions...I just gave this a glance and like the obsessive corrector I am, I couldn't let it go despite being relatively unacquainted with the sentence.

Point being, oops if I've accused you of something you're not guilty of and "female" could totally be used in the vocative. Where there's a noun, there's a way. Mostly people don't though, and that's fine too.

Edited by semperspes, 02 February 2011 - 09:27 AM.
An obscure and irrational one

[mfkevinking]

again squiggly equals "like she did today" or wahtever the phrase was, so I don't think it's playing any necessary role in the sentence. I'd have gone without the "again" even if it had been there in the first place because for a vehement tone we really don't want to be getting long-winded.



I think the meaning of the sentence was changed when you changed conjunctions...I just gave this a glance and like the obsessive corrector I am, I couldn't let it go despite being relatively unacquainted with the sentence.

Point being, oops if I've accused you of something you're not guilty of and "female" could totally be used in the vocative. Where there's a noun, there's a way. Mostly people don't though, and that's fine too.

Ouch, haru is rough with the double posting rules. /noted/

[Haruki]

... i just erased it bcuz it was the exactly the same thing and i was pretty sure nobody really wanted that there...

[FunnyBunnyLogic]

Wow, I got responses... and good ones at that! I feel so pleased! 0=]

Now, to respond to things that I feel the need to. First and foremost... Canisferus, it is Miss or Ms. Bunny... I am ♀ not ♂ ... So, that takes care that... Next is the correction/change you suggested.

Yeah, I catch your drift, Mr Bunny. Let me edit your "edit" further:


"EDIT. 'I'm sorry... I wish I thought of something better to say, but... if she picks on you with the other girls like she did today, then...' "

Canis Edit: "I'm sorry... I wish I'd thought of something better to say, but... if she picks on you and the other girls again like she did today, then..."

Ordinary, I would say fine job! I like what you did with it... BUT... The issue is, that you have changed the very nature of the statement. I should have said a bit about the situation in the story... but well shame on me. So, I will explain it, in the hopes that you will understand my choice.

Kotori, the speaker, is chatting with her friend, Ibuki about how Harada & her posse had picked on Ibuki. So, even though your choice is structurally sound, it does not keep within the limits of the situation. Because it is not that Harada was teasing Ibuki and other girls (as your choice states...), but that Harada and her friends were teasing Ibuki. And that caused Kotori to be upset.

One of the biggest issues I have with the translation process is that the person who is translating may not have the necessary experience to understand the languages they are dealing with, so they make mistakes. Like either they are using google-translate or some other such thing and choose poorly based on "general meaning" instead of sound construction and emphasis on dialect or usage. This is why I have such respect for our translators here at The Company. 1. They have a firm grasp of both English and Korean and 2. If they are not certain, they are willing to accept suggestions and 3. Willing to ask for help.

Now, I can understand Semper's distaste in poorly written works... but I have a fascination with the story itself, the presentation is secondary. Unless, I'm the one who is QCing the bloody thing... then I will let my QC nature take over and correct the wording to make it poifect.

Special kudos go out to Mr. King and the blog he posted... it was fabu! Exactly the type of stuff I was hoping to see. I hope that there will continued interest in this topic (since it is one of my favorite things to discuss...)

hmmm... I wonder if I was a Language Arts teacher in a past life...

[Trebor]

Special kudos go out to Mr. King and the blog he posted... it was fabu! Exactly the type of stuff I was hoping to see. I hope that there will continued interest in this topic (since it is one of my favorite things to discuss...)

Wasn't that my post? I just quoted mfk. /me feels ignored.

Edited by Trebor, 05 February 2011 - 05:50 AM.

[semperspes]

on the topic of quoting, why was I quoted mkk?

[mfkevinking]

Wasn't that my post? I just quoted mfk. /me feels ignored.

FuBuLy was just mistaken. She needs to get used to the fact that there is another QC in the house.

[FunnyBunnyLogic]

/reads posts again
/her eyes bulge
/smacks her forehead

I feel like an ass! I'm sorry Trebor! That "special kudos" was really meant for you.

I don't want to take away the one I gave Mr. King, but if I just toss them out nansy-pansy, they will lose their implied specialness... and I don't want to be an Indian Giver...

I am in a dilemma...

hmmm...

Eureka! I've got it!!

I will give out "Special Kudos" to the people who have been awesome enough to post here thus far. Mr. King can keep his, please consider it a pre-release privilege since we live in the same state.

But for Trebor... I will give you an Extra Special Kudos!

[Canisferus]

My apologies Miss Bunny. (Great name btw)

Ordinary, I would say fine job! I like what you did with it... BUT... The issue is, that you have changed the very nature of the statement. I should have said a bit about the situation in the story... but well shame on me. So, I will explain it, in the hopes that you will understand my choice.

Kotori, the speaker, is chatting with her friend, Ibuki about how Harada & her posse had picked on Ibuki. So, even though your choice is structurally sound, it does not keep within the limits of the situation. Because it is not that Harada was teasing Ibuki and other girls (as your choice states...), but that Harada and her friends were teasing Ibuki. And that caused Kotori to be upset.

Then since Harada + the other girls are the subject of the verb "pick", I'd recommend this instead:

'I'm sorry... I wish I thought of something better to say, but... if she and the other girls pick on you again like they did today, then...'

Semper, I'll still press for including "again" because "like" is being used here as a comparison or simile and whereas "again" is an adverb modifying "pick" indicating "another time" or "once more". It's the way I've always heard it used, it flows smoother. Without it, it's awkward.

[Dante]

I only read from my Trusted Scanlation Group, cause i have compare and see the difference from the translation can make the feeling of the story feel somewhat odd.

[Graeystone]

English is not a fun language to learn especially for non-English speakers and writers trying to learn it. One of the my pet peeves is native English users purposely mangeling the language online and non-English speakers think that mess they see is proper English. There is about a thousand or more nuances in English that can make or break the most simple of sentences.

One of hardest things for a translator is contractions(can't, you're, they're, etc.) and when to use them. I don't mean the placement in the sentence or word confusion like 'your/you're'. What I mean is would a character actually use a contraction or not. A character, usually a one who is rich and from a wealthy family, more times than not won't use contractions. The more 'proper' a character is the more they will see the use of contractions as either gouche or something the 'lesser people use'.

Another thing about contractions is to try not to use them in a story's narration.

The ninja couldn't belive the size of the wall he had to climb. The other ninjas weren't joking when they said it's next to impossible to climb it.
OR
The ninja could not believe the size of the wall he had to climb. The other ninjas were not joking when they said it is next to impossible to climb.

Which line looks better?

When it comes to translating Japanese or Korean to English, the rules for the English langauge must be followed. The most important issue for a translator is of course getting the most accurate translation as possible while conveying the original intent of the story-teller. This can be done without sacrificing proper English. It may seem impossible to do it with lines that just don't seem compatable with English. To be honest I don't believe that. It just takes a good grasp of English. The dreaded Engrish is not the result of a bad mish mash of Japanese words trying to be translated into English. It is a poor understanding of English or an act of outright laziness on both the part of the translator and proof reader.

Edited by Graeystone, 26 January 2012 - 11:22 AM.