33 replies to this topic

[Squier]

I'm a practitioner of Kendo as well but a newbie (1st kyu), and while I agree this manga is distorting how kendo actually is in training and competition, it's pretty entertaining and enjoyable to read. The stances are ridiculous and very dramatic, but as with all things in entertainment, it should be taken with a grain of salt.

[svines85]

I'm a practitioner of Kendo as well but a newbie (1st kyu), and while I agree this manga is distorting how kendo actually is in training and competition, it's pretty entertaining and enjoyable to read. The stances are ridiculous and very dramatic, but as with all things in entertainment, it should be taken with a grain of salt.

Yeah, I agree with you on that point, I do enjoy this story.......I like many of the characters, the plot, and a lot of the humor that's spread throughout it.

On the other hand I can kind of understand how those who take kendo seriously might be much more "serious" than followers of a lot of other sports. And how inaccuracies that might be overlooked by fans in a baseball or basketball manga might well be intolerable to those people who consider kendo a matter of cultural heritage as well as a sport.

[rakisei]

I'm a practitioner of Kendo as well but a newbie (1st kyu), and while I agree this manga is distorting how kendo actually is in training and competition, it's pretty entertaining and enjoyable to read. The stances are ridiculous and very dramatic, but as with all things in entertainment, it should be taken with a grain of salt.

As a kenshi as well, I agree with this comment

[Rakurai Amatsu]

After learning Kendo for about 7 months now, I realize why this manga has such a bad reputation in Japan.

http://accessup.org/jmanga/7_Kurogane_28Haruto_20Ikezawa_20version_29/
http://en.accessup.org/emanga/7_Kurogane_28Haruto_20Ikezawa_20version_29/

I wrote a review on baka-updates recently on my thoughts on this series and a few things on how kendo is portrayed in this manga and how different it is from the actual sport:

http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=69367&perpage=10&page=1#comment94541

I'm not sure if any of you guys have been keeping up with the raws, ( http://www.dm5.com/manhua-chidaodeheitie/ ) but in the recent chapters, the author made a serious mistake in regards to kendo, to the point that it's offensive. I wrote the spoiler at the bottom of my baka-updates review for anyone interested.

I may shoot myself in the foot here but here it goes, I think the biggest mistake was going with kendo I think the mangaka should of gone with either Battodo or Iaido so at least that way he is keeping swordsmanship as the theme though he would be losing the sports category, being a battodo student myself I think it would of left him some room to breathe and it most likely would not of dropped so low in rankings though I cannot say for sure. That said I think he went with kendo for the fact that most people know what kendo is also with all the weired stances that seems to be used in the manga since they're is a lot of styles for battodo and iaido it would of made more sense why they all have such different stances

For those who want to know what Iaido and Battodo is, it's Japanese swordsmanship though unlike kendo it is not a sport and is all practical swordsmanship they only do kata's(forms or patterns) and/or tameshigiri(practical cutting with a shinken(live blade katana) cutting either bamboo or tatami) though Iaido is a spiritual means of it and Battodo or Battojutsu is literally the practical side as thats what soldiers were taught in world war 2 for example.

(not sure as I havn't looked into kendo and asking any student of it this question with all stances does all kendo styles use the same stance or are there actual different stances?)

Edited by Rakurai Amatsu, 04 November 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[Neyut]

Hmm I never heard of battodo, recently watched some videos, in kendo we do kata, too, but they are just important for kyu-tests.
Some Kendo Dojo's weight kata more some fewer.

The manga can't show the unbelievable speed of a good kenshi, so it has to impress with stances and techinques.
And you shot your foot, kendo is one of the most popular sports in Japan, so it's just logic, that the mangaka took kendo, just like other mangaka use popular sports like baseball or basketball.
btw Kendo is practiced by the Japanese police, the policemen can use some of their working hours to practice it daily.

Also I think it's an important element of shounen manga, that there is a direct competition between the heroes and enemys, I don't think that iaido or battodo can entertain with their comparison competitions.
It's like deciding between synchronized swimming and water polo (maybe not the best examples, but imagine which one would be more exciting as a manga)

Edited by Neyut, 04 November 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[Rakurai Amatsu]

I think that is the main reason why he went with kendo rather than battodo purely for the fact that know one knows what it is, and I think I would have a safe position saying that 80% of every person who has read this will be thinking wtf is battodo, even in japan its known but not as well known in comparison to kendo

[svines85]

So eight volumes is the end...still not a bad run though, that makes it have been pretty successful.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-01-26/kurogane-kendo-manga-ends-in-shonen-jump-in-japan

[Lucenthia]

It's true that it's ending, but I heard that it got axed deliberately because the author said his manga was one of the best out there. A lot of people had noted the discrepancies between the manga and real life kendo, and when they saw the author's comment, the repercussions were so bad that the author got two weeks advanced notice before his manga got cut.

[svines85]

and there's the last chapter, just released by S2Scans............all complete now. It was good, whatever's said about it accuracy, it was still entertaining, a shame it ended early. 

[inzaratha]

I think it's a shame it was cut - I enjoyed it. 

[Sociopath Espher]

To the guy who open this thread

NEVER WENT FULL RETARD

You just don't apply REAL LIFE logic to FICTION
Anywho , i want to read this thing because it's ridiculous like that , i don't want to see two people standing still , looking at each other ( for like ... 10 chapter) and then finally strike ONCE and win ...

[ValorantX]

First, the point you made about someone going into a streetfighting stance messing up your opponents rhythm is not BS. I'm a practitioner of several styles of martial arts including kendo and when I face a difficult opponent I often go into an unorthodox stance that allows me to fight more comfortably and it happens alot among martial artists. The change in stance doesn't affect the opponent it affects the person who changed their stance, the fact that the opponent is thrown off by it is a side-effect that rarely occurs it's just that we increase the proficiency/efficiency of our movements.

 

Maybe, I can see that in some ways, but the way it was shown in the manga was pretty out of line you'll have to admit. He had no stable form whatsoever to the point of it being ridiculous.

Second, knowing how to use a shinai your first time holding one isn't anything special some people have an affinity for it. I mean my niece could use one perfectly the first time she picked it up.

 

Did she know how to do a nearly perfect do strike without practicing its form once? How does that even make sense.

Third, Kurogane uses a counter style so it doesn't matter that much if he is weak because he uses his opponents power to strike. How do I know this because I use a counter style too and I rarely use much force.

 

I don't know about you, but from being so weak that he wasn't able to hold a normal shinai and swinging it around the next day isn't normal.

Finally, there are some kendo practitioners that fight like kumdo and it was already established that Oogami has enough stamina to fight like that and while it might not be practical it's not as if it can't be done so there was no reason for it to be there as a complaint.

 

Kumdo used to have a different style from Kendo, but it's becoming more and more like Kendo these days. A lot of people say Kumdo is just a rip-off form of Kendo or even practically the same thing. (I've met a Kumdo master who says that Kumdo is just what was copied from the Japanese art)

 

You just don't apply REAL LIFE logic to FICTION
Anywho , i want to read this thing because it's ridiculous like that , i don't want to see two people standing still , looking at each other ( for like ... 10 chapter) and then finally strike ONCE and win ...

 

There are plenty of martial art manga/sports manga that doesn't completely distort the sport in real life and is still enjoyable to read (eyeshield 21, kuroke no basket) even if they're out of the box. There's a difference between distortions that serve to make it entertaining and distortions that are just ridiculous.

Edited by Saphsin, 15 June 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[ThePoetWolf]

Why are you debating this. no offense here but the reason you dont like it is because you do the sport. If i did tennis i know id be pissed off at the ideas that happen in that. You read a manga for the story, not for how well it portrays ACTUAL LIFE. Im english, and the shit in manga about english people that they come up with blows my fucking mind i can categorically state that any of the mangakas ive seen talk about England have never fucking been there or met an english person. For example one of my favourite light novel series is Aria of the Scarlet ammo. Which fucking kills sherlock holmes and lots of other stories so badly its like they can never come back> This did piss me off because i was a Sherlock fan. However i realised its just a manga or light novel, they are telling a story and they dont give a shit if its accurate or not. And i realised i dont care either. If you seriously do care about the portrayal of Kendo in this manga then that is your perogative i wish you all luck with it. However you have to accept that this isnt a medium which goes for facts. If your looking for something factual then dont read it. Dont complain about the series, just say "This isnt my taste, the kendo is shit" and dont read it. Its the reason i never read any football mangas (Not soccer, fucking football. America stole that word and i refuse this shitty substitute.) And i dont even like football. But dont complain, youll find little sympathy here.

[svines85]

Spoiler

Why are you debating this. no offense here but the reason you dont like it is because you do the sport. If i did tennis i know id be pissed off at the ideas that happen in that. You read a manga for the story, not for how well it portrays ACTUAL LIFE. Im english, and the shit in manga about english people that they come up with blows my fucking mind i can categorically state that any of the mangakas ive seen talk about England have never fucking been there or met an english person. For example one of my favourite light novel series is Aria of the Scarlet ammo. Which fucking kills sherlock holmes and lots of other stories so badly its like they can never come back> This did piss me off because i was a Sherlock fan. However i realised its just a manga or light novel, they are telling a story and they dont give a shit if its accurate or not. And i realised i dont care either. If you seriously do care about the portrayal of Kendo in this manga then that is your perogative i wish you all luck with it. However you have to accept that this isnt a medium which goes for facts. If your looking for something factual then dont read it. Dont complain about the series, just say "This isnt my taste, the kendo is shit" and dont read it. Its the reason i never read any football mangas (Not soccer, fucking football. America stole that word and i refuse this shitty substitute.) And i dont even like football. But dont complain, youll find little sympathy here.

well yeah, i agree with your point of "this is a manga, you read for the story, not the facts".............and that's all well and good, but unfortunately, in this specific case............by all accounts it did indeed play a role in this manga becoming unpopular and most likely leading to its early end. Kendo is apparently looked at in quite a different light from other sports (or most topics for that matter)  in Japan, thus making any comparisons to how "this other manga isn't accurate about this or that" moot. So, yeah, that's why it's still being talked about, I didn't get it either until I read up on it.