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Are RPG games dying or getting better...


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#21
bushwhacker2k

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20 years from now, children born in the 21st century will say the same thing about games from this decade.
We tend to view things we grew up with in high regard.


I kind of agree, but the thing about the idea that "everything is perspective" implies that nothing has any real meaning.

Many games now do emphasize the graphics over everything else. There are two points to be made:

Graphics vs. Aesthetics and Graphics as an attention-getter.

With Graphics vs. Aesthetics, people claim that games are just overall better with better graphics, when in actuality what they're referring to is aesthetics. Graphics only reflect graphical quality, generally just the resolution, but there are plenty of ugly games with high resolution. What games need to actually look good are aesthetics, an actual understanding of what is pleasing to the eye.

With Graphics as an attention-getter, impressive visuals are generally just a hype-building tool to make commercials and other advertisements look cool. Regardless of the fact that a great majority of these are only cinematic trailers (and thus reflect little to nothing of the gameplay itself) it works quite well. If anyone ever wonders why cinematic trailers are so prevalent when gameplay trailers are less so, this is the reason.

My real problem is that it seems like it's so hard to find games with real depth. I seem to drop into a game, figure out the system and then there's really nothing else to do.

I actually do feel like a lot of games these days have worked out how to present themselves better than back in the day but making money in the gaming industry is very formulaic. Once they find out people are willing to buy something, they capitalize on that specific aspect and continuously make a good game with marginal improvements or a copy of a good game with slight differences.

For years I've found JRPGs to be incredibly dull, in many cases the combat system hasn't really developed past Final Fantasy 7's (a game which is about 15 years old now). Fortunately not every JRPG suffers from this though. (Enchanted Arms <3)

I honestly find it amazingly difficult to get into games these days. Without the social element (i.e. playing with friends) I just seem to plow through most games or I recognize a familiar formula and simply drop it. : /

What's an RPG game? That is according to your definition...
Maybe my opinion of games which are included as RPG games are different from yours...

Are games such as Bioshock, Metro 2033, Singularity, Hitman included?


A good question, I vaguely recall mentioning this specific point in a different topic.

The term Role-Playing Game never really evolved much past its usage for Dungeons & Dragons, a game which capitalized on players filling specific roles or characteristics.

IMO we should really find better terms for games that fill this category, it's too vague and meaningless.

A JRPG is nothing like a Western RPG. A Japanese Role-Playing Game (The word Japanese in this term is to refer to the category of game that originated in Japan, not any RPGs from Japan) is often focused on narrative and character-development, a turn-based style is exceedingly common for this sort of game. A Western RPG (Once again because the style is mainly used for Western RPGs) is generally focused on using a single character and increasing their abilities.

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Okay, can someone list a specific game they feel was made better than games nowadays or, conversely, can someone list an example of a game to prove that they believe games are fine nowadays? I'm not doing this to promote argument but instead to analyze the specific points in this matter so we can actually determine what the actual issue is.

Edited by bushwhacker2k, 24 September 2012 - 06:23 AM.

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#22
ryukoutsei

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Well i think they are going down hill.

To me the term RPG means a game somwhat like final fantasy. You either love them or hate them but i like them. That said xenoblade and last story are rpgs, but not pandoras tower. in my book. I would class pandoras tower as action/adventure.

Though i say they are going down hill, recently i found the "tales" series and they are very RPG. However they are what i would call an older game.

Take if you will star ocean :TLH, you have a simple RPG line-up and fairly high end graphics. but in terms of difficulty its poor. You can just about battle 10 time per new place and you will be ok. Go back a while and take FF7 if you did that the local boss would look at your party and grin, wou would then have to bettle foor 2 hours and use all your inventory to survive, go back to FF4 and you would just die, in about 8 moves from the boss.

My opinion is RPG in this day and age mean "top grade graphics and midiocre plot with shallow charries". My proof? play final fantasy 7 then play final fantsy 13.

I cant say much about Dragon quest, but that seems to have remained fairly constant. Other games i have not really heard of, if anyone has suggestions please tell me.

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#23
darkhunter

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i agree 100% with bushwhacker2k

mostly all games that are out now are just a disappointment for the people that actually do know and played a good rpg

imo games this days are just like a car that has a nice bodywork but when you enter is just a moped xD

back in the days when a game had poor graphics what made you play it was the story, de way you interacted with the npc and other stuff that made it fun
but now what do you get? the eye candy from how good it looks but you get bored of it so fast and i bet you will forget about it less then 1 year
all i can say is that if they want my money they should frigging do a better job when they make games and do not complain all the time that "omg we made a game and the pirates steal our work". if you make a good game i bet people will buy it (f.e.: The witcher and now i even bough again kotor 1/2 because it came with win 7 compatibility and on dvds, considering that kotor is ~8 years old and i bough each of teh games twice (oh yeah for the 2 dvd's i actually pay 20$ O.o so damn cheap for such great games) vs the crappy games that are asking now ~50 euros the cheapest when it comes out and is not even worth it)

even skyrim ... well it is a good game but what can i say ... except some new things all i see in it is the old morrowind refurbished with new graphics but same open world but with the same quest things

i wish someone would just make a game so badass that will raise all teh standards for rpg games that will lead to an evolution of them because now they are just plain and ... they mostly suck





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#24
Akumetsu

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I kind of agree, but the thing about the idea that "everything is perspective" implies that nothing has any real meaning.


That is true regardless.

Imo RPG's are pretty much the same the last 7~some years but I don't have any real experience with older RPG's. I tried playing games like fallout/elder scrolls 1,2 or FF7 but I just can't enjoy it with such shitty graphics ( even oblivion, which I loved, looks so shitty right now)! I think that is the main problem for newer gamers, we are used to good graphics and can't (even if we want) enjoy a older game..

Edited by Akumetsu, 24 September 2012 - 10:38 PM.


#25
bushwhacker2k

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Imo RPG's are pretty much the same the last 7~some years but I don't have any real experience with older RPG's. I tried playing games like fallout/elder scrolls 1,2 or FF7 but I just can't enjoy it with such shitty graphics ( even oblivion, which I loved, looks so shitty right now)! I think that is the main problem for newer gamers, we are used to good graphics and can't (even if we want) enjoy a older game..


From my experience, I've found that graphics can set the scene for a game, but it won't generally dictate the experience.

What I mean by that is that awesome visuals and realistic settings can draw someone into a game, but ultimately graphics won't determine the quality of gameplay.

I actually do understand being turned off by graphics (think Atari D:).

I think a lot of games nowadays are about instant gratification, rather than slowly building things up; so when we can play something kind of streamlined and get to the good part without too much stuff in between it becomes difficult to jump into older games. Maybe you won't be able to get into an older game after your first few tries, but they're quite worth it when you find a really good one.

I personally find KotOR to be superior to Dragon Age and Mass Effect, as an example. (also Jade Empire <3)

i agree 100% with bushwhacker2k


:D

i wish someone would just make a game so badass that will raise all teh standards for rpg games that will lead to an evolution of them because now they are just plain and ... they mostly suck


I agree here, I feel like games (or at least genres/categories) stagnate when they're duplicated for quick and easy profit (i.e. I hate money). I feel kind of hopeless in my desire for games because it seems like the ideal game for me would be like a replacement for life, in that it'd have so many activities and such depth that I'd never get bored or run out of things to do.

While that is probably a bit much to ask for today, I still feel like most games are a bit overly focused. I feel like there should be a wealth (or at least several) of activities to pursue in good RPGs, rather than just killing the copious amount of rodents of unusual size until the end of time. Crafting is such a secondary function in games, but I feel like it could even function as a game in its own right if people took the time to explore and innovate rather than just churn out another game to meet release dates and get a paycheck... I'm going off on a tangent now...

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#26
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Well there WAS talk of a final fantasy 7 remake with top end graphics, you can find the intro to it online (it was part of the PS3 lauch teasers). But they have since said "no" to the whole project due to meddling issues.

The biggest problem i see is games like dragon quest and final fantasy have taken such a large chunk out of the market and set that particular bar so high that it would be hard to compeat. My theory is that they simply dont even try and give the costomers eye candy. As gamers go i see the problem of graphics as my GF is often saying you dont play them unless you grew up on bad graphics. I can still play phantasy star 1 on the master sys and be happy.

To todays gamer graphics mean about 75% of the game the rest is side line to that, and for the most part story is last on the long list.

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#27
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Well there WAS talk of a final fantasy 7 remake with top end graphics, you can find the intro to it online (it was part of the PS3 lauch teasers). But they have since said "no" to the whole project due to meddling issues.


I actually wouldn't be opposed to such a thing, since it'd be like a refurbishing of a classic game.

The biggest problem i see is games like dragon quest and final fantasy have taken such a large chunk out of the market and set that particular bar so high that it would be hard to compeat. My theory is that they simply dont even try and give the costomers eye candy. As gamers go i see the problem of graphics as my GF is often saying you dont play them unless you grew up on bad graphics. I can still play phantasy star 1 on the master sys and be happy.


Wait, Final Fantasy doesn't try to give customers eye candy? Or am I confused O_o

To todays gamer graphics mean about 75% of the game the rest is side line to that, and for the most part story is last on the long list.


Yeah, I believe the formula is: 1) create a shorter game with the same engine as other games, without changing it much so it is easy to create, 2) use hype to draw in the average consumer (i.e. not experienced gamers) 3) still charge $60 per, despite the game being short and not really doing anything differently than the last game 4) repeat.

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#28
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Well there WAS talk of a final fantasy 7 remake with top end graphics, you can find the intro to it online (it was part of the PS3 lauch teasers). But they have since said "no" to the whole project due to meddling issues.


there is a remake of ffvii from Square Enix released i think last month or so but it sux (This is a new version of FF7. While it isn't a full remake, it has been updated to allow it to run on modern pc setups, and comes with some other new features)

anyway we expect to much and we get so little :| so i stopped paying for games until i play them and if i like them then i will buy them, i will not waste so much money for a frigging short game with 0 potential
i will not care even if the game will be 100gb or more but the game should be great


so lf a bilonare/milionare who wants to start a game dev company xD and needs some new ideas and wants to hire me :P

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#29
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Dragon Age 1 and 2 are good
Hopeing Final Fantasy 14 A Realm Reborn turns out good.

They also said there remaking Kingdom hearts 1 and 2 for ps3

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#30
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They also said there remaking Kingdom hearts 1 and 2 for ps3


I tried playing KH1 back in the day, Donald and Goofy just ruined it for me... I cared somewhat, but I just couldn't get past how obnoxious they sounded in a semi-Final Fantasy universe.

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#31
ryukoutsei

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Kh was for kids. Plain and simple.

@bush, yes they do, but they once cared not about the look and more about the charries depth and development through a decent plot. Now FFxiii is a 3 parter but has little plot has baseless charries and linear plot. 3 disks (the same as what 13 will have (presuming part 3 has 1 disk)) from 7 (prety much the best of the ff series) had an epic plot decent charries and some actual development. The charies themselves looked like they were made of chiseled cubes and were done by a 3 year old but it was epic.

As i said now its 75% eye candy, the other thing i have noted is once upon a time we used to play games with a sound track and no voice over. Now people wont play a game if the voice acting is wrong or heaven forbid it doesnt have any.

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#32
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As i said now its 75% eye candy, the other thing i have noted is once upon a time we used to play games with a sound track and no voice over. Now people wont play a game if the voice acting is wrong or heaven forbid it doesnt have any.


You have to realize that voice acting has become an integral part of gaming. There used to be a time when music was a new feature in games, and people like you complained how others "wouldn't play a game if the music is bad or heaven forbid it doesnt have any". We can't take bad voice acting "for granted" when games are supposed to have it. Our technology has been up to par since the 90s.

Voice acting and music (sound in general) are also the strongest nostalgia triggers. This is because in most humans, audio memory holds the highest retention rate. So when we think back to a game we played a long time back, its easiest to remember the soundtrack we played to and the voices of the characters. LIstening to those sounds can also send us back into the emotions we felt when experiencing the game for the first time. This is why good music and good voice acting are so crucial, because they become the larger part of our recollections of those games.

For me, FFX set the standard for complex 3d RPGs. It had GREAT voice acting; each character had a unique and interesting way of speaking, which made the dialogues (as cheesy as some of them were) very pleasant to listen to. The graphical presentation was much ahead of its time, and even ten years later it manages to stay on par (sometimes above) with Nintendo-made RPGS like The Last Story and Xenoblade. As far as music goes, the soundtrack to FFX is, by far, Nobuo Uematsu's greatest masterpiece. It was laced with some of the most beautiful compositions to grace the gaming industry, not to mention the world.

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely fine with RPGs that have little to no voice acting. Rune Factory 3 and Harvest Moon: Friends of Mineral Town are two of the best games I've encountered in my life. But those came on handheld devices(simple), so the expectations and standards are different than what we hold for the bigger consoles (like the Wii, etc.)

#33
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#34
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FFX set the standard for complex 3d RPGs. It had GREAT voice acting


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H47ow4_Cmk0

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#35
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H47ow4_Cmk0


<33

Such raw emotion! Ahh, the good ole days

FTR I know that alot of people have issues with Tidus +Yuna's voice acting, but they're either crazy or way too picky IMO. Overall both of their voices fit the characters very well, and the MC's monologue wasn't all that bad to hear.

The only voices I didn't particulary like were Seymour Guado's and young Tidus'(that kid sounded like a smoker choking on a cigarrette bud or something)

#36
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<33

Such raw emotion! Ahh, the good ole days

FTR I know that alot of people have issues with Tidus +Yuna's voice acting, but they're either crazy or way too picky IMO. Overall both of their voices fit the characters very well, and the MC's monologue wasn't all that bad to hear.

The only voices I didn't particulary like were Seymour Guado's and young Tidus'(that kid sounded like a smoker choking on a cigarrette bud or something)


xD I never really liked FF10, but I certainly can't deny that the FF series is known for having good music. I especially like FF:Tactics' soundtrack, so epic and memorable. (best FF story too, IMO)

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#37
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Tidus and Yuna, best romance couple in Final Fantasy

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#38
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Tidus and Yuna, best romance couple in Final Fantasy


Okay, just gonna say it.

I personally found FF10 to be crap. I'm sure the music was decent, but I just can't take anyone in that game seriously. Spoony's review sums it up nicely.

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#39
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Okay, just gonna say it.

I personally found FF10 to be crap. I'm sure the music was decent, but I just can't take anyone in that game seriously. Spoony's review sums it up nicely.


Someone lacks a heart, or maybe an adventurous soul

In any case, at least the FFX characters didn't tahk like this (speaking in heavy British accent) the ENTIRE GAME. LIKE LAST STORY FOR EXAMPLE

#40
bushwhacker2k

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Someone lacks a heart, or maybe an adventurous soul

In any case, at least the FFX characters didn't tahk like this (speaking in heavy British accent) the ENTIRE GAME. LIKE LAST STORY FOR EXAMPLE


Now, now. I really liked FF9 and FFT, but FF10's characters and storyline were both pretty silly. I'm not attacking your belief, so let's not digress into an argument, if you enjoyed the game that means there were things to be liked about it, I just didn't end up liking it.

I only played a few hours of FF13 (if that's what you're talking about), who had heavy British accents? I really don't recall.

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