10008 replies to this topic

[Diabolical Rhapsody]

Well about the comment about Rachel not being Likeable, well; Remember Grifith? I think she is like HIM, GREEDY.

That being said, of course there will be regulars, rankers, family members, and even ignition weapons (thorn in here) that will aid her quest, cause GREED is something that everyone can be familiar.

So yeah.. there is that and she could posibly had greater allies along the series.

Griffith as in The White Hawk?

 

Or someone else? She has already got the game rigged in her favor with Headon ensuring that her climb is not that difficult.

 

Akryung in 2F, Emily thereafter and now Hoaqin. She has had the help of an amazing lot others will kill to team up with.

[Rant]

Griffith as in The White Hawk?

 

Or someone else? She has already got the game rigged in her favor with Headon ensuring that her climb is not that difficult.

 

Akryung in 2F, Emily thereafter and now Hoaqin. She has had the help of an amazing lot others will kill to team up with.

Yeah, The White Hawk... but i was saying that cause some one said something like: "Rachel is not very likeable so the thorn will not be able to ignite with a person it dislikes". And ofcourse, if the thorn is greedy (and this blue demon seem to be just Rachel type) it will ignite and lend power to this freckle spawn of Satan.

[flowsthead]

...

A piece of metal with the above precautions? Perfect. Sure, when you get it both with a Shinsoo strengthening mechanism and to be light because of a suspendium alloy, it'd be expensive, but when the alternative of not having is being DEAD, I'm sure I can live without sweet and sour pork for a few weeks.

...

 

You're still making a lot of assumptions.

First, that the Workshop sells these things willy nilly. If the only way they sell things to Regulars is in Workshop Battles, then this isn't a simple method to get anything.

Second, that it would only take a few weeks of skimping to do it. We have no idea what the prices are for any of the items, and we have no idea what kind of money the average Regular can make. We don't know what a living wage is in the Tower and we don't know the cost of production for armor. Time might be irrelevant for Regulars in terms of living, but climbing the Tower still has time elements such as traveling together as one team, and maintaining a sense of motivation while climbing. 

Third, that the Tower lacks a cultural element. Despite knowing of the existence of and having used guns, Japan at one point banned all guns in the country and maintained a level of warfare technology at the sword level. It's possible armor isn't viewed favorably in the Tower because speed is valued above protection.

Finally, I think you're overstating the usefulness of any armor. Just because a plate of iron might stop a bullet, doesn't mean it has anything to do with shinsoo. Putting a piece of paper underneath your shirt wouldn't add any protection. There's no reason to assume that in a world with magic water-air that armor is inherently better than not armor in all situations.

[Thanos]

...In the first chapters when Hatsu is fighting with another swordman the guy says something like "These swords are too wide, let's use them while we can; as shinsoo get's thicker on higher floors we might don't have another chance"...

I've personally always had issues with that statement. Unless someone tries to handle their sword as a paddle, the width should be fairly inconsequential. In fact, swords should be de facto more suited to a higher Shinsoo density environment than the edgeless Hooks with a point that faces the opposite direction of a potential thrust. I understand that the information is canon and we can do nothing about it, but still~

Edited by Thanos, 29 July 2016 - 04:42 PM.

[Diabolical Rhapsody]

I've personally always had issues with that statement. Unless someone tries to handle their sword as a paddle, the width should be fairly inconsequential. In fact, swords should be de facto more suited to a higher Shinsoo density environment than the edgeless Hooks with a point that faces the opposite direction of a potential thrust. I understand that the information is canon and we can do nothing about it, but still~

The hooks are more like wrenches or tire irons. I wonder how can they be more useful underwater than a freaking katana. But what is canon is canon.

 

Yeah, The White Hawk... but i was saying that cause some one said something like: "Rachel is not very likeable so the thorn will not be able to ignite with a person it dislikes". And ofcourse, if the thorn is greedy (and this blue demon seem to be just Rachel type) it will ignite and lend power to this freckle spawn of Satan.

Oh..but I like Rachel. She is rather clear of her target and does what the means require her to do. She isn't usually bogged down with emotion, I mean compared to princesses and noblewomen she appears remarkably average but she has that grit that I haven't seen much in others.

[Rant]

The hooks are more like wrenches or tire irons. I wonder how can they be more useful underwater than a freaking katana. But what is canon is canon.

 

Oh..but I like Rachel. She is rather clear of her target and does what the means require her to do. She isn't usually bogged down with emotion, I mean compared to princesses and noblewomen she appears remarkably average but she has that grit that I haven't seen much in others.

 

I DO like Rachel the same way i DO like Shinji Ikari and Grifith... so we are in the same page

Edited by Rant, 29 July 2016 - 05:28 PM.

[Sangios]

You're still making a lot of assumptions.

First, that the Workshop sells these things willy nilly. If the only way they sell things to Regulars is in Workshop Battles, then this isn't a simple method to get anything.

Second, that it would only take a few weeks of skimping to do it. We have no idea what the prices are for any of the items, and we have no idea what kind of money the average Regular can make. We don't know what a living wage is in the Tower and we don't know the cost of production for armor. Time might be irrelevant for Regulars in terms of living, but climbing the Tower still has time elements such as traveling together as one team, and maintaining a sense of motivation while climbing. 

Third, that the Tower lacks a cultural element. Despite knowing of the existence of and having used guns, Japan at one point banned all guns in the country and maintained a level of warfare technology at the sword level. It's possible armor isn't viewed favorably in the Tower because speed is valued above protection.

Finally, I think you're overstating the usefulness of any armor. Just because a plate of iron might stop a bullet, doesn't mean it has anything to do with shinsoo. Putting a piece of paper underneath your shirt wouldn't add any protection. There's no reason to assume that in a world with magic water-air that armor is inherently better than not armor in all situations.

Plus, I should think that Shinsoo Reinforcement, considering it can reinforce weapons, can also reinforce a Regular's clothes and possibly make it function as something akin to armor while strengthening their body. That would be one explanation for character's clothes not getting blown away when they're hit by a Shinsoo blast or something.

[God of LoL]

Plus, I should think that Shinsoo Reinforcement, considering it can reinforce weapons, can also reinforce a Regular's clothes and possibly make it function as something akin to armor while strengthening their body. That would be one explanation for character's clothes not getting blown away when they're hit by a Shinsoo blast or something.

Then why not use that extra reinforcement to reinforce STEEL to be even better instead of reinforcing clothes to act like steel?

Not even f*cking SIU would be able to change my mind on this one.

Everybody in the Tower are just stupid.

Like I said before, end of story.

[StarlaBlaise]

Then why not use that extra reinforcement to reinforce STEEL to be even better instead of reinforcing clothes to act like steel?

Not even f*cking SIU would be able to change my mind on this one.

Everybody in the Tower are just stupid.

Like I said before, end of story.

I guess, course steel is more constricting than clothes. Reinforcing it gives you a second or two more to defend yourself, but it limits your agility/speed. And most fighters we saw rely on speed/agility very often. 

With weapons like thorn or with people like zahard princesses/rankers, who can destroy rocks for fun it's easier to reinforce clothes. It's easier and gives you more profit in a long run. 

[gus]

nothing beat boiling acid

 

on the subject of items and buying don't you think Anak  welding a new weapon every time we see her strange

 

were are they getting the money from

Edited by gus, 30 July 2016 - 07:11 AM.

[Lester]

nothing beat boiling acid

 

on the subject of items and buying don't you think Anak  welding a new weapon every time we see her strange

 

were are they getting the money from

An elite team like Team Leesoo probably makes pretty good money from competing in and winning tournaments and the like. Beyond that, Androssi is a Princess and is presumably loaded.

[Thanos]

on the subject of items and buying don't you think Anak  welding a new weapon every time we see her strange
 
were are they getting the money from

I don't really find it strange. Since she originally came with a Hook, albeit one that handles like a whip (Green April), it's no wonder that she decided to get a Hook sometime post2F. And as for the Steel Spear she used preWorkshop Battle, that is probably her version of a siege weapon. In any case, if you consider the number and variety of bombs used by a broke 20F failure like Wangnan, there should be nothing strange about one of the topX in her grade to own more than one good weapon; after all, hers weren't even special like Rak's spear, AA's dagger, and so forth.
 

An elite team like Team Leesoo probably makes pretty good money from competing in and winning tournaments and the like. Beyond that, Androssi is a Princess and is presumably loaded.

That, and I suspect that it's possible to claim a defeated opponent's weapon if desirable. At least I don't recall any rule preventing it, even less so if the defeated Regular dies, which is a real possibility given the vanguards of Team Leesoo are a Zahard Princess and a pseudo Zahard Princess.

-----
By the way, what do you guys suppose will happen with Hoaqin's clone?

She is an amalgamation of the countless souls Hoaqin had eaten prior to his sealing, and we know that she gave fraction of her being to Baam already. On the one hand, I cannot quite imagine giving Baam all the souls; although she doesn't know what Baam's "power" did to the souls before, she never so much indicated an intention of giving all of herself to Baam despite her circumstances, and it would be really strange if Baam suddenly went from his current state directly to the power level of a ~High Ranker. On the other hand, it would also be strange--not to mention counter productive--if Rachel's new "sword" became his former self--that is a (High) Ranker--who cannot associate with Regulars during their climb without violating the rules and facing the wrath of the Guardians and / or Zahard Empire enforcers.

And while a viable outcome is that she remains on the Hell Train after both parties leave, I cannot imagine that it's a desirable outcome. Not to mention that she would remain vulnerable to Hoaqin's force-eating should he ever return to the Hell Train, which we know is possible even for High Rankers if one is sufficiently motivated.

Edited by Thanos, 30 July 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[User N° ####]

That, and I suspect that it's possible to claim a defeated opponent's weapon if desirable. At least I don't recall any rule preventing it, even less so if the defeated Regular dies, which is a real possibility given the vanguards of Team Leesoo are a Zahard Princess and a pseudo Zahard Princess.

 

You don't even have to defeat them first, just look at Inieta rekting that poor guy with his own weapon...

[God of LoL]

I guess, course steel is more constricting than clothes. Reinforcing it gives you a second or two more to defend yourself, but it limits your agility/speed. And most fighters we saw rely on speed/agility very often. 

With weapons like thorn or with people like zahard princesses/rankers, who can destroy rocks for fun it's easier to reinforce clothes. It's easier and gives you more profit in a long run. 

And you would be right, except for one little detail.

Super strength is a thing in this series.

Throwing whatever speed/agility disadvantage you may mention down the drain.

[Thanos]

And you would be right, except for one little detail.
Super strength is a thing in this series.
Throwing whatever speed/agility disadvantage you may mention down the drain.

I haven't followed the entire discussion, but there is something of note. Even if super strength is the standard, wearing something that introduces a penalty would still result in a disadvantage; super strength can negate the speed / agility penalty only when compared to those who don't have this super strength in the first place.

For instance (speaking about average representation), Scouts favour lighter equipment not because the Fisherman equipment is too heavy for them, but because they wish to preserve their superior speed / mobility that Fishermen don't have to worry about as a more stationary (tank-ish) position.

Edited by Thanos, 30 July 2016 - 06:51 PM.

[God of LoL]

I haven't followed the entire discussion, but there is something of note. Even if super strength is the standard, wearing something that introduces a penalty would still result in a disadvantage; super strength can negate the speed / agility penalty only when compared to those who don't have this super strength in the first place.

For instance (speaking about average representation), Scouts favour lighter equipment not because the Fisherman equipment is too heavy for them, but because they wish to preserve their superior speed / mobility that Fishermen don't have to worry about as a more stationary (tank-ish) position.

And yet I have yet to see either a Fisherman or a Defender even, whose job is to essentially that of the Tank, aka to take damage so that the rest don't, wear anything more than a T-Shirt.  

The class counter-argument works only so far when one considers that everybody pretty much dresses the same.  

The only person who I remotely excuse for his choice of clothing is Dan and that's only because in his case, speed is literally the only advantage he possesses over all those around him, so he needs to get as much of it as he possibly can.  

Only Koon has been properly equipped so far and that's only because he looted his father's vault and probably grabbed whatever was not nailed on the walls and was also on fire.  

Otherwise, he'd probably be as naked as the rest of them.  

His position doesn't even require him to be that mobile in the first place.    

But overall, the technology does exist in the Tower to make weightless armor and proof of that is Ryun's staff which she just let floating around back in Season 1 when she was not busy burying the far end of it into somebody's ass.  

And if not weightless, at least far lighter than first suggested.  

They are all electricians without even rubber soles.  

And that's not even the most basic of proper gear an electrician should have.

[Thanos]

...

I believe you missed my point there; my intention was merely to illustrate that the super strength doesn't compensate for the potential penalties--incurred by heavy or cumbersome equipment--because everyone has it.

If Koon's equipment is what you're looking for, then you must be talking about Armour Inventories (the only armour AA displayed), and we know that those are pricy and high-level items. Also, despite their implied rarity (even among Rankers), we have already seen two Regulars and one rather unimpressive Ranker with Armour Inventories, so they are definitely out there.

As for your point about Hwa Ryun's staff, you're forgetting that all Arms and Armour Inventories float, yet some are considered heavier or more cumbersome than others. To interpret this, I suppose the simplest approach is to imagine that either the user has to provide the energy (or it's drained from his supply) to make these things float, or that they introduce some drag-factor to the user when they move. And some those floating and usually invisible items clearly have noteworthy differences since Scouts prioritise smaller items in lower quantity than Fishermen, and some of these are explicitly mentioned as being heavy or otherwise impractical.

And as for an actual suit of armour, the first Hong came in one and immediatelly discarded it after the Crown Game; that probably reveals enough. Most likely explanation is that anything less than the lowest grade Armour Inventory would be useless against pure Shinsoo or Shinsoo enhanced attacks (i.e., Shinsoo body reinforcement may or may not do the trick, but the best choice is probably to dodge) and therefore isn't worth the implied movement restrictions however minute.

Finally, if you were simply hoping for a suit of armour made out of the same stuff as the Armour Inventories, then there is still a chance that some (higher grade) Armour Inventories actually come as a suit of armour instead of a floating shield. That said, there may be a reason why they are shaped as a floating shield, and--even if such suits of armour do exist--I imagine that they would be expensive even among Armour Inventories (i.e., you'd either need a lot of them to cover each body part without hindering the movement, or you'd need one with sophisticated joints to avoid hindering the movement), so those who can afford them are probably also those who don't really need them (i.e., their abilities overshadow whatever they can afford).

Edited by Thanos, 31 July 2016 - 09:38 AM.

[salvatore]

I really hope in this upcoming chapter, we get to see a glimpse of Androssi's team, last time we saw them, the Bia princesses were making their move on them, i am curious how things will go, will they fight Androssi or manipulate her and turn her against Viole?

 

But in all of this, i just hope, they don't kidnap Androssi, i don't want another hostage situation.

 

Edit: if Androssi steals their name, i wonder if that would solve her issue?

Edited by salvatore, 31 July 2016 - 10:38 AM.

[Thanos]

But in all of this, i just hope, they don't kidnap Androssi, i don't want another hostage situation.

You mean like another hostage situation inside of the current hostage situation? That would be really bad, and maybe a sign that SIU is running out of ideas.

[God of LoL]

You mean like another hostage situation inside of the current hostage situation? That would be really bad, and maybe a sign that SIU is running out of ideas.

Kaiser: "Yo Viole. I heard you like hostage situations."  

Baam: "Oh for fuck's sake."

Edited by God of LoL, 31 July 2016 - 02:55 PM.