10008 replies to this topic

[jordanm]

so pretty much when bam reaches the top of the tower hes going to be the most OP regular (including irregulars) there ever was? i mean he will have thorn + rice pot + his retardedly OP potential. enryu had the thorn but no ricepot (to our knowledge) and zahard and urek had neither. just seems like overkill IMO. im pretty sure he could beat them (once we get that far) without so many power ups, so i dont really get giving him so much.  

 

Also have we been given an explanation for that red skeleton thing of his yet? was that the fake thorn or something entirely different

Edited by jordanm, 27 July 2016 - 07:04 PM.

[Pojul]

In one of the blog posts Siu said that in theory Rachel also can own Thorn because she is an irregular.

Edited by Pojul, 27 July 2016 - 07:25 PM.

[StarlaBlaise]

In one of the blog posts Siu said that in theory Rachel also can own Thorn because she is an irregular.

She's still an average Joe, who's way worse light bearer than most regulars that were shown. She can get a Thorn for herself, but opening its full potential? No way in hell. 

[Pojul]

She's still an average Joe, who's way worse light bearer than most regulars that were shown. She can get a Thorn for herself, but opening its full potential? No way in hell. 

I agree with you and mean that this statement may indicate that only an irregulars can own the Thorn.

[salvatore]

In one of the blog posts Siu said that in theory Rachel also can own Thorn because she is an irregular.

Really?

[Thanos]

so pretty much when bam reaches the top of the tower hes going to be the most OP regular (including irregulars) there ever was? i mean he will have thorn + rice pot + his retardedly OP potential. enryu had the thorn but no ricepot (to our knowledge) and zahard and urek had neither. just seems like overkill IMO. im pretty sure he could beat them (once we get that far) without so many power ups, so i dont really get giving him so much.  
 
Also have we been given an explanation for that red skeleton thing of his yet? was that the fake thorn or something entirely different

From what we know, Zahard went through Revolution on board the Hell Train; GoG repeatedly mentions Zahard and his companions.

As for Enryu, he may or may not have gone through his Revolution--and he may or may not have required Revolution to awaken his true potential--, but the comparison to Baam is somewhat strange. Okay, so one of Baam's principle sources of strength is the Thorn, but Enryu is the one who created it, and--from what we know--he created more of them and could probably create even more if required. In other words, ownership of one (or even more) Thorn(s) shouldn't be anywhere near enough to make Baam reach Enryu's level.

 

Therefore, if Baam is to ever surpass Enryu, his other principal sources of strengths would have to do the trick. That said, since Enryu clearly doesn't care much for the politics and happenings in the Tower, Baam doesn't really have to become more powerful than Enryu to accomplish anything he desires to do or is manipulated to do.
 

In one of the blog posts Siu said that in theory Rachel also can own Thorn because she is an irregular.

Really?

Indeed, SIU mentioned this in this chapter's blog post.

[Shinsoo Beam]

In one of the blog posts Siu said that in theory Rachel also can own Thorn because she is an irregular.

 

thats kind of bs considering that baam can only have one thanks too the lobster he got in the 2F, the thorn was death and need that thing as a power source, maybe he is planing on using emile as substitute?

[pepbut]

so pretty much when bam reaches the top of the tower hes going to be the most OP regular (including irregulars) there ever was? i mean he will have thorn + rice pot + his retardedly OP potential. enryu had the thorn but no ricepot (to our knowledge) and zahard and urek had neither. just seems like overkill IMO. im pretty sure he could beat them (once we get that far) without so many power ups, so i dont really get giving him so much.  

 

Also have we been given an explanation for that red skeleton thing of his yet? was that the fake thorn or something entirely different

Yes, but mainly because he's the MC.

[Valmont84]

Red Lobster is not the fake Thorn

Baam told Horyang that Red Lobster was hidden by FUG in the 2F where it influenced the shinsoo in the tank so Baam could beat the Bull (something even Androssi couldn't do). Baam acquired it after his "death" but he doesn't know what it is, they said something about a demon who once rivalled a god, maybe he's the one that talks to Baam in the Rice Pot? I always fought that Red Lobster is something similar to the half-devils given to Horyang and Cassano.

FUG gave Baam the fake Thorn when he was kidnapped by Xia Xia, he used it to make that huge gash on the wall and to fight Amigochaz.

Edited by Valmont84, 28 July 2016 - 07:08 AM.

[salvatore]

Red lobster was the key to ignite the thorn, I always assumed that thing is either the guardian that Enryu killed or it's Enryu himself that was reduced to such a state after his battle with the guardian. Reasons why I thought that is Enryu.

1-He rivaled a god. Guardians are known gods in the tower.
2- That thing being the key to ignite the thorn, he is the owner of the thorn and of course knows how to ignite it.
3- That thing is completely RED, he is known with that color.

It could also be something he created with shinsoo.

Edited by salvatore, 28 July 2016 - 08:06 AM.

[Scaze]

I like to think of it as SIU basically saying that circumstances dictate the winner and two opponents may not be in their optimal conditions in order to safely determine one's skills or one of them may have come by an "unfair" advantage at that time and the other one may be worn out or vice versa.  

Things are made ambiguous because they are ambiguous.  

For example, Baam having to tear through and fuck up an entire pipe system in order to get to Semi Perfect White as fast as possible after breaking unbreakable chains and defeating Billy Elliot with a new power? It will most likely have repercussions, ones that won't be simply resolved with 30 minutes resting time.  

In the Tower, you most likely never get to fight at optimal conditions, even during tests.

Emotional states, temporary power-ups or even alliances, a weapon that SOME GUY just drops for you to take, drugs or demons, there simply cannot be a clear winner when there are so many variables playing a pivotal role at nearly all times. (Something I am okay with... What I am not okay with is that nobody seems to be wearing ARMOR. ANY ARMOR. ANY VARIATION OF ARMOR. ANYTHING THAT CAN PROTECT YOU MORE THAN YOUR F*CKING SKIN AND REINFORCEMENTS. I MEAN COME ON, YOU CAN MAKE UNBREAKABLE CHAINS, WHY THE FUCK NOT MAKE AN UNBREAKABLE ARMOR ON YOURSELF TO, I DON'T KNOW, NOT FUCKING DIE FROM THE SUPERHUMAN PUNCHING YOU?! SURE, THERE WILL BE THAT ONE JACKASS WHO CAN FUCK YOUR BODY UP BYPASSING THE ARMOR, BUT HE'D DO THAT EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T WEAR IT, SO AT LEAST YOU'D BE PROTECTED FROM ONE HUNDRED OTHER FRONTS, WHICH IS GETTING PUNCHED, STABBED, PIERCED, SLASHED OR SHOT DOWN WITH LASER BEAMS!! LIGHTNING WOULD BE A PROBLEM?! THEN FUCKING INSULATE THE DAMNED THING!! Seriously, even Wangnan would be more useful if he at least had a chest plate. Instead they all dress as if they are going to the store or on a date. I'm looking at you, Hell Train Yihwa! At least put on a sports bra! Or any bra!

Seriously, it's dressing like that why she and Ryun are getting kidnapped.  

This is why I like Kaiser. She's a solid number 2 of a sentient being, but at least she has a fucking SHIELD.)

So, unless he makes another set of cards (Which I hope he does not.), we'll always be able to make rough estimates at best, never educated guesses.

But that's just a theory.

A Manhwa theory.

Thanks for viewing.

I do not know if I should feel insulted or complimented.

This is the same for almost anything though.

I mean look at HxH, it arguably has faaarrr more variables than ToG yet, in pretty much all of the fights, it's possible to get a rough gauge on who's strong, who's not, their strengths and weaknesses, shortcomings, pros, cons etc etc.

SIU's power scaling is shit. You can't get a gauge on anyone and most characters don't have clear strengths and weaknesses - they all pretty much just seem to do the same god damn thing, with very few exceptions. Not to mention that they fluctuate in power levels constantly - one moment they're stomping out a 'B rank regular', the next they're incapable of stopping a bunch of D ranks from getting on the train. Like lol, ok.

Edited by Scaze, 28 July 2016 - 11:53 AM.

[God of LoL]

This is the same for almost anything though.

I mean look at HxH, it arguably has faaarrr more variables than ToG yet, in pretty much all of the fights, it's possible to get a rough gauge on who's strong, who's not, their strengths and weaknesses, shortcomings, pros, cons etc etc.

SIU's power scaling is shit. You can't get a gauge on anyone and most characters don't have clear strengths and weaknesses - they all pretty much just seem to do the same god damn thing, with very few exceptions. Not to mention that they fluctuate in power levels constantly - one moment they're stomping out a 'B rank regular', the next they're incapable of stopping a bunch of D ranks from getting on the train. Like lol, ok.

By rank alone, Baam should have been a red mist from the 21st Floor, not have even scratched Urek Mazino, who is by this universe's definition something akin to a nigh omnipotent murder god of mass destruction and pancakes.

A summation of the entirety of the rank system can be summed by a certain Prince of all monkey people who can turn into bigger monkey not-people that was said by an abridgement of a series that needed to be abridged again in order to be watchable.

And that summation is "POWER LEVELS ARE BULLSHIT".

...BUT IT STILL DOES NOT EXCUSE THE LACK OF ARMOR!!

IT'S NOT LIKE YOU LACK THE RESOURCES AND NEED TO FOLD YOUR SHITTY IRON OVER TEN THOUSAND TIMES IN ORDER TO TURN INTO A BIT LESS SHITTY IRON, YOU'VE GOT AN INFINITE RESOURCE THAT CAN LITERALLY BE ANYTHING AND A WORKSHOP THAT CAN MAKE PEOPLE IN THE SAME FREQUENCY ASSASSIN'S CREED GETS A NEW SEQUEL!!  

SPEAKING OF WHICH, WHAT KIND OF ECONOMY WOULD A WORLD LIKE THIS DEVELOP?!  '

BECAUSE CERTAINLY NOT THE CURRENT ONE!!

 

 

Speaking of people, do you think Emile will ultimate serve as Semi Perfect White's escape from his inevitable villainous breakdown, when devouring her will give him the boost of a hundred thousand souls required to reach a state akin to that of a slightly less handicapped Irregular that is Baam when he's not Baam?

Edited by God of LoL, 28 July 2016 - 02:29 PM.

[User N° ####]

Going back to the "can regulars use the Thorn?" subject; I believe they can't.

The reason for this is why some Fug (Karaka's buddies), after having the Thorn for who knows how long, tried so desperately to melt Baam along with the thorn during the workshop battle, remember it was supposed to be a trap and the whole Workshop experimentation on Emily about how to melt a human (in this case Baam) into an ignition weapon?

So maybe their logic was "if we can't make the thorn work then it must be because we are not irregulars, but we don't trust Jyu Viole Grace with this power so let's melt him and the thorn together" knowing they could control it the way they control Emily or something like that...

 

Red lobster was the key to ignite the thorn, I always assumed that thing is either the guardian that Enryu killed or it's Enryu himself that was reduced to such a state after his battle with the guardian. Reasons why I thought that is Enryu.

1-He rivaled a god. Guardians are known gods in the tower.
2- That thing being the key to ignite the thorn, he is the owner of the thorn and of course knows how to ignite it.
3- That thing is completely RED, he is known with that color.

It could also be something he created with shinsoo.

 

I agree with this, there's something fishy going on.

[bondservant]

I don't think white wIll get Emile. I think Emile will be used to ignite the thorn Rachel gets much like the red demon was used in Baam's thorn. Rachel will be taken over by Emile and become even more crazy.

[Tony911]

one moment they're stomping out a 'B rank regular', the next they're incapable of stopping a bunch of D ranks from getting on the train. Like lol, ok.

Regular standings are not power levels. 
 

...BUT IT STILL DOES NOT EXCUSE THE LACK OF ARMOR!!
IT'S NOT LIKE YOU LACK THE RESOURCES AND NEED TO FOLD YOUR SHITTY IRON OVER TEN THOUSAND TIMES IN ORDER TO TURN INTO A BIT LESS SHITTY IRON, YOU'VE GOT AN INFINITE RESOURCE THAT CAN LITERALLY BE ANYTHING AND A WORKSHOP THAT CAN MAKE PEOPLE IN THE SAME FREQUENCY ASSASSIN'S CREED GETS A NEW SEQUEL!!  
SPEAKING OF WHICH, WHAT KIND OF ECONOMY WOULD A WORLD LIKE THIS DEVELOP?!  '
BECAUSE CERTAINLY NOT THE CURRENT ONE!!

Why wear armor when people can smash through normal iron it like butter? The only armor worth wearing are made by the workshop, which are extremely expensive. Only good example we've seen is the one Koon stole from his Eduan's treasury. It looks very light, and does not hamper mobility. Kaiser's armor inventory floats around her.

 

Their world =/= ours, so expecting them to wear armor that looks like it came from the medieval ages is wrong.

[gus]

Red lobster was the key to ignite the thorn, I always assumed that thing is either the guardian that Enryu killed or it's Enryu himself that was reduced to such a state after his battle with the guardian. Reasons why I thought that is Enryu.

1-He rivaled a god. Guardians are known gods in the tower.
2- That thing being the key to ignite the thorn, he is the owner of the thorn and of course knows how to ignite it.
3- That thing is completely RED, he is known with that color.

It could also be something he created with shinsoo.

 

it also could be a parasite like the worm or the green thing that yihwa was control by

 

 still trying to figure out were  the red lobster is stored right now

 

is it within Baam or is it in the thorn ?

Edited by gus, 29 July 2016 - 03:17 AM.

[God of LoL]

Regular standings are not power levels. 
 


Why wear armor when people can smash through normal iron it like butter? The only armor worth wearing are made by the workshop, which are extremely expensive. Only good example we've seen is the one Koon stole from his Eduan's treasury. It looks very light, and does not hamper mobility. Kaiser's armor inventory floats around her.
 
Their world =/= ours, so expecting them to wear armor that looks like it came from the medieval ages is wrong.

Like I said a billion times before, whenever I say armor, I mean "whichever equivalent of armor they've got in their universe".
In a medieval setting that may mean chest plate, in a future one force fields, in a modern one Kevlar or in a magical one whatever runes there are to increase magic resistance.
But even if there are people out there who can tear through steel as if it's tinfoil, I'm 100% certain that tearing through that would be harder than reading through their flesh. That little extra protection the chainmail would offer as opposed to a bloody T-shirt and boxers is gone because people of the Tower have the survival instinct of a suicidal goldfish.
Face it, Tony, Regulars are fucking retards.
They don't even try to save up for at least a cheap version of Kaiser's and Koon's shields.
They deserve to be fodder.
Also, by your logic, they shouldn't have needles or swords either.

[User N° ####]

Like I said a billion times before, whenever I say armor, I mean "whichever equivalent of armor they've got in their universe".
In a medieval setting that may mean chest plate, in a future one force fields, in a modern one Kevlar or in a magical one whatever runes there are to increase magic resistance.
But even if there are people out there who can tear through steel as if it's tinfoil, I'm 100% certain that tearing through that would be harder than reading through their flesh. That little extra protection the chainmail would offer as opposed to a bloody T-shirt and boxers is gone because people of the Tower have the survival instinct of a suicidal goldfish.
Face it, Tony, Regulars are fucking retards.
They don't even try to save up for at least a cheap version of Kaiser's and Koon's shields.
They deserve to be fodder.
Also, by your logic, they shouldn't have needles or swords either.

 

Remember that shinsoo gets thicker on every floor as the regulars keep moving higher and higher up the tower, In the first chapters when Hatsu is fighting with another swordman the guy says something like "These swords are too wide, let's use them while we can; as shinsoo get's thicker on higher floors we might don't have another chance". I believe this is also one of the reasons compression license exists, so that big guys like Rak don't experience excesive friction with shinsoo on higher floors.

So concluding, considering body armor's weight and volume it wouldn't make much sense to have it since it would also restrict their movements during battle; besides we know they can use shinsoo to reinforce their bodies and if they have a team (or are good at using lighthouses) they can create barriers, or use techniques like Novick's to make shinsoo force fields.

Edited by User N° ####, 29 July 2016 - 02:14 PM.

[God of LoL]

Remember that shinsoo gets thicker on every floor as the regulars keep moving higher and higher up the tower, In the first chapters when Hatsu is fighting with another swordman the guy says something like "These swords are too wide, let's use them while we can; as shinsoo get's thicker on higher floors we might don't have another chance". I believe this is also one of the reasons compression license exists, so that big guys like Rak don't experience excesive friction with shinsoo on higher floors.

So concluding, considering body armor's weight and volume it wouldn't make much sense to have it since it would also restrict their movements during battle; besides we know they can use shinsoo to reinforce their bodies and if they have a team (or are good at using lighthouses) they can create barriers, or use techniques like Novick's to make shinsoo force fields.

I've considered the entire setting to reach the conclusion I have, 4214.

The technology has been constantly displayed to us.

It is stupid of them to not take extra lengths to protect themselves.

It's like wizards not wearing armor in settings where armor would by no means restrict them from practicing their arts.

Not to mention that there are things like Archimedes or the Suspendiship Quant was flying around in his chapter, meaning that there must be some degree of metallurgical engineering in the Tower.  

Not to mention that they've got a mineral whose main function is to float, which they've used to build things from weaponry (Ryun's staff comes to mind, aka a 2nd Floor Regular's at the time.) to super-advanced cube shaped computers, meaning that they have created alloys out of the stuff, enough of it to warrant commercial usage of it.  

So weight stops being an issue too.

And they've also created machines that can manipulate Shinsoo to a certain degree, machines that can even raise somebody's Shinsoo resistance, so I'm sure as hell certain that there's a machine out there that can strengthen you too with Shinsoo. 

Yet you tell me that not one jackass thought of "Hey, how about I put one of these pretty things into my shirt so that I won't be torn as easily as wet toilet paper when a guy with a sword/needle/hook/whatever-the-fuck-he'll-kill-me-with comes by and isn't exactly chanted by my sense of humour. I might not survive, but at least he'll have a bigger bill to pay when he'll have to send his tools for maintenance.".

People err, barriers and force fields created by humans(or otherwise) are unreliable.

A piece of metal would protect me more consistently, constantly and reliably than one of Novick's barriers ever would.

A piece of metal with the above precautions? Perfect. Sure, when you get it both with a Shinsoo strengthening mechanism and to be light because of a suspendium alloy, it'd be expensive, but when the alternative of not having is being DEAD, I'm sure I can live without sweet and sour pork for a few weeks.

They are being suicidally stupid, end of story.

I'm sure that the Royal Guard are regarded as such a threat because they're the only dudes bothering to wear a helmet around here.

Puts things into perspective on the supposed death toll of your everyday Regular.

Wangnan deserves everything that is coming to him in the Hell Train.

[Rant]

Well about the comment of Rachel not being Likeable, well; Remember Grifith? I think she is like HIM, GREEDY and ENVIOUS.

That being said, of course there will be regulars, rankers, family members, and even ignition weapons (thorn in here) that will aid her quest, cause GREED is something that everyone can be familiar.

So yeah.. there is that and she could posibly have greater allies along the series.

Edited by Rant, 29 July 2016 - 04:18 PM.