512 replies to this topic

[maffa]

I'd like if there was an option for my scanlations being open to everyone. I don't do my scanlations for money or fame, I want as many people to read them as possible. If only batoto members will be able to read my scanlations then that defeats the entire purpose. Who cares if other sites copy your shit? It was never yours in the first place. The mangaka and the publisher own the manga and all its derivations. Scanlators are just doing public service.

i dont know the particular agreements you took with batoto, but i dont think they took the responsability to spread your work to other sites. i understad where you come from, but batoto and other scanlation groups need to converge and focus traffic for their work to their own website in order to cash some money for at least covering the expenses. 

 

your uptake on your job is exemplary and as a common leecher i cannot help but commend you, but i dont think batoto and the other groups are to comdem because they wan to regulate the flux of people enjoying their work for their benefit.

[Mattkun]

I think some of us doesn't understand something. THERE IS NO SUCH THING as total elimination of those sites leeching Batoto (well, other than to teach people to support scanlators and Batoto, not every manga fan is retarded egoist). What Grumpy wants is limitation of such behaviour or at least control over it. If it lessens the traffic... well most of such people use Adblock so it's not a real issue.

Another thing are scanlators, even if they want to give their works for free (which is nice of them), Batoto doesn't work on air. Even if they don't see problems with leeching sites they are problem for servers.

My little story from Batoto. I created account only for language filter and notifications. Many of my friends done exact thing. We just need to promote registration more.

Oh, BTW BakaBT is public tracker with registration, you know what? It lived more than 10 years.

But it's not a limitation. I myself could easily create 10 accounts in under a minute if I so wanted too and then have a bot go and rip all the images off all the mangas on the front page right now if I so wanted to and I'm sure the ones stealing from the site could do that easily as well. And you can't control over it since they could easily make a bot that creates 100 new accounts a second and then takes all the images again. It's not very hard at all. 

 

Edit: Ah and the only reason BakaBT still stands is because of it's huge widespread popularity in exactly that. It's a torrent site that has thousands and thousands of work's that have since been removed from the internet and so people flock to there after hearing it has what they want. 

Edited by Mattkun, 20 October 2015 - 07:22 PM.

[maffa]

besides, im wondering: would Grumpy be okay by losing the "casuals"? 

 

i like someone elese here registered because i needed the notifications (and without notifications i wouldnt be en able to track down my 200+ manga list)

 

what if he's not interested too much in losing casual unregistered people?

 

just a thought.

[Racky]

So? Any real ideas, i've seen ONE real idea what to do instead of "members only Batoto" and tens of rants how it will be bad. Leeching sites are starting to be serious problems for servers. Will you pay for them so everything could go as it is now? No? Then give a solution .

[Omerlife]

Being a scanner myself, I would prefer if we make all the new releases members only and like 3 week old releases public...

[Blacktrack]

After following the other post and repost, some with good ideas like:

 

- for members more content (adult/18+ content)

- simular way like relation between g.e-hentai.org and exhentai.org

- delayed releases for non member

- etc

 

i think, you cannot make everyone happy with one solution or the other one.  The problem with the leeching ofc wont be sloved in either way if you want my opinion on it. There will be always ways to leech things from sites, the only question is how far are you willing to go to stop it by changing the site and server itself. And seeing you want to keep it simple, i as programmer and web developer, can say: its futilted

 

the only thing, a server admin/host can do, is to make it as hard as possible to stop leeching from their side, but thats it. as such, membership or not, is only a small waterdrop on a hot stone.

Edited by Blacktrack, 20 October 2015 - 07:33 PM.

[Harshrox3]

Being a scanner myself, I would prefer if we make all the new releases members only and like 3 week old releases public...

 

I think 3 weeks is a long time lets think about 1 week or two

[arimareiji]

So? Any real ideas, i've seen ONE real idea what to do instead of "members only Batoto" and tens of rants how it will be bad. Leeching sites are starting to be serious problems for servers. Will you pay for them so everything could go as it is now? No? Then give a solution .

 

The absence of a solution that helps doesn't make it a good thing to rush ahead with one that doesn't (and will probably make matters worse).

[DVerde]

As many people have mentioned, a delayed public release for guests would be rather nice. It won't deter actual readers, who download directly from the scanlator's websitt or read it in their viewer. This isn't DRM, or anything like it. SInce it's completely free.

 

As for everything else, this change doesn't really concern me. Batoto will still be Batoto. It's not like I come here *just* to read the uber latest manga. XD

Edited by DVerde, 20 October 2015 - 07:42 PM.

[svines85]

Whatever you think best.

 

I've got no real problem saying "members only", lots of web sites do just that. If someone isn't willing to do a bare minimum (register), then there's no reason to see them as having some God-given right to the site's content.

 

Good luck with it  

[Dinner]

I'd like if there was an option for my scanlations being open to everyone. I don't do my scanlations for money or fame, I want as many people to read them as possible. If only batoto members will be able to read my scanlations then that defeats the entire purpose. Who cares if other sites copy your shit? It was never yours in the first place. The mangaka and the publisher own the manga and all its derivations. Scanlators are just doing public service.

I agree with what you said, but I assume some want recognition of their work for their public service. So like you said, there should be an option for scanlations to be open for everyone and I guess in consideration of those that want credit to allow them the option for their scanlations to be private for users only on Batoto.

[Raxnom]

For a guy that created accound here to track manga I follow, I kinda got used to batoto. If this requirment is implemented then It was judged necessary. I'm all for the change. How will you stop them from making account and pull through that? It would make easier to track who pumps off the site though.

[jhl95]

I think you should do just the opposite of said partial private - newly uploaded are visible for members and public after a few days without registration.

[Sulla]

Being a scanner myself, I would prefer if we make all the new releases members only and like 3 week old releases public...

 

I like this idea, though 3 weeks seems a little too much.

 

In any case, it's a lose-lose situation.

[roblochon]

Look at what g.e-hentai.org is doing.

 

I think g.e-hentai.org does a good job with their gallery. You have a limited amount of pageviews allowed/day as a guest (more when logged in). You have ways to improve it. Also, their distributed server thing is pretty cool (I got it running for internet points!)

 

Another idea would be to ask the user for a captcha after a number of pageviews.

 

Another idea : just torpedo the sites that do copying after they do it. They should be easily identifiable.

[OhGodWhy]

The change kind of scares me to be honest. From an administrator's point of view. Batoto is very optimized to be viewed by guests because guests make up roughly 90% of the visitors--and it's much easier to optimize for guests as they require less dynamic actions. When they all become members, many of existing optimizations made over the years become useless. I don't know if our current system can handle the increased load. I don't know if decrease in bot load will be significant enough. I don't know if it'll make more members leave us. I don't know if ad revenues will be enough to support the system once it's changed. There's quite a lot of unknowns.

 

Those unknowns are exactly the most important things you have to know before making such a huge change. Your objectives become redundant if, after the change, you don't have enough ad revenue to support the site - I also would not advise relying on user donation as a back up if things turn for worse.

 

If you are going through with it, or any alternative suggested in this thread, you should have a 1 to 2 week trial period so you can at least estimate the unknown variables to a reasonable degree before making a final permanent change (if any).

 

My opinion on the bot problem is that no matter what you do they will still exist (short of only letting people you approve visit this site). The most you can realistically achieve is have less bots in the site - but is that worth it for a maybe significant decrease in visitors? 

The people behind the bots do it because they make money from it, and they will not think twice in finding a way to get past your new change in order to keep making money.

Have you also considered that the ones that doesn't make an account will start visiting aggregate sites, which makes using bots on batoto more profitable?

 

Either way, there's way too many unknowns - the changes need to be tested before you go through with it.

[DaoFox]

oh my, well as long as I can still view things with my account then I am relatively happy.

 

as for a solution to the botting issue... if only the "image" loaded for a page was to be clipped into multiple of varying size's. well, that is if a way to do so without affecting load-times and server load etc could be found v.v and then maybe it randomizes between a variety of section names with a bunch blank or the occasional wholepage image just to screw with the bots on other sites...

 

so many fun idea's, now if only they could be done >.< I know tons of people would stop using aggregate sites if every upload of their's started to have just cut portions of a page appearing instead of the whole thing

[Dreka]

Look at what g.e-hentai.org is doing.

 

I think g.e-hentai.org does a good job with their gallery. You have a limited amount of pageviews allowed/day as a guest (more when logged in). You have ways to improve it. Also, their distributed server thing is pretty cool (I got it running for internet points!)

 

Another idea would be to ask the user for a captcha after a number of pageviews.

 

Another idea : just torpedo the sites that do copying after they do it. They should be easily identifiable.

If they do that, then why would anyone choose Bato?

 

Let me get this straight you are saying they should punish all their user, for no gain?

You do know that bots are better at captcha than humans right? And lets say hypothetical that it if it worked then it would be so God damn stupid to do.

 

And they aren't gonna retiliate, why excatly?

 

 

Overall this is just so stupid, making a crawler that adjust for this is very easy, so we are talking about it working for 1 week, while punishing everyone else for the rest of Bato site time. Like I use a reddit app on my mobile device, that have an inbuilt browser, having to be logged in would mean I either have to log in every time I need to use Bato, or having to run it in another browser :-/