55 replies to this topic

[kurages]

Finally commenting on this because this hair color conversation is becoming rather repetitive when it comes to arguing about where she got it from. Are you saying that people have to have the same hair color or similar hair color to their parents? Following that logic im not my parents kid because they have brown hair and mine is blond.
 
Hair color is by no means a viable reason to say people are or are not related. And if we base this off actual genetics its possible she can have red or red/redborwn hair because it is a recessive gene with a mutation in the MC1R gene. If the father had black hair he could have had one dominant and on recessive gene, and white/bond hair has both genes recessive. So it is possible to have a child with both recessive genes and if the parent passed on the mutated gene it would result in red hair color.

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Ah yes, finally someone said it. And if that wasn't the case, then who knows, maybe Ukina's hair was dyed or Eto herself dyes it.

[arcanix93]

http://www.reddit.com/r/TokyoGhoul/comments/2gjabc/spoilerspierrot_tokyo_ghoul_ch_143_ending/    

 

did anyone read this... it's pretty spot on.

[Dibbs]

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Ah yes, finally someone said it. And if that wasn't the case, then who knows, maybe Ukina's hair was dyed or Eto herself dyes it.

Both of you do know that you could have stopped a while ago.......abstaining from an action is a decision you know?

Anyway I don't think that the author would look to deeply at the genetics of it, but that's why it's a work of fiction.

Although I do think that something is very off about Eto.

That's just my attempt at finding that "thing".

Regards

Dibbs

[hopeandlight]

Okay, trying to further support the theory Kaneki will be come a ghoul investigator.

 

 

Arima says " We're in V14. No "ghoul" can pass through here."

There what can pass through V14

1) human

2) corpse

3) kakuhou farm

4)...or ghoul investigator

 

Why did Arima specifically mention ghouls?

So if you were a human on the ghoul's side (Hide), you could pass through.

Arima may have been implying : no enemy ghoul can escape. You can only join us.

Kakuhou farm ghouls would still remain on the ghoul's side. 

 

Going on : V14 = Volume 14

Kaneki will no longer be a "ghoul", but a "ghoul investigator" after Volume 14.

 

V14= Volume 14

 

 

Why does Arima pierces both sides of Kaneki's brain through his eyes?

1) He's a sadist  (True: Ishida-sensei describes Arima as "sadistic and massive")

2)  Arima knows Kaneki's amazing regenerative ability will heal Kaneki, but ...

    a) No, Kaneki's is left in a vegetative state like Shinohara. Arima wanted a kakukou farm, and this is best way to make sure Kaneki never ever leaves. The new arc will be the "Tragic Revenge of Touka and Hinami".

    b ) Kaneki heals completely. His brain cell rearrange themselves and he suffers no memory loss. Arima wanted to make sure Kaneki stayed down until his transport to CCG and what better way damage the control center of his cargo's body.

    c) Kaneki's brain heals, but his memory does not return. Arima specifically pieced Kaneki's brain on both hemisphere's to wipe his memory. Arima wants to remake Kaneki into a soldier for the CCG.

 

2a) could certainly be true, but if Kaneki's regenerative powers can heal a completely twisted leg and grow bucket of toes, he could certainly regenerate his brain in a functioning organ.  2b) would be great, Kaneki did not come out of the Jason's torture session completely unscathed, so Kaneki will memory loss seems like the best choice out of the three.

Edited by hopeandlight, 16 September 2014 - 05:09 PM.

[Old McDonald]

Side remark: the translation of Arima's lines could be improved. It contains one small inaccuracy and that greatly changes the figurative meaning.

 

Arima says:

"1) This is V14. A ghoul cannot pass beyond here.

2) You won't advance beyond this (14)."

Do you see the difference? A ghoul cannot pass V14, but Kaneki won't advance beyond 14 (=tarot card). I claim that this difference is deliberate.

 

In the end, Kaneki did pass beyond 14 in chapter 140. He achieved temperance. This can mean two things:

- 2) is wrong. It's doubtful that 1) is a true statement.

- 2) is correct. That means that this statement was applicable to Kaneki in chapter 139, but no longer applicable to Kaneki in chapter 140. It's doubtful that 1) still applies to Kaneki at the end of chapter 140.

 

In short: Arima's claims cannot be taken to mean that Kaneki did not pass beyond V14 (=volume 14).

Edited by Old McDonald, 16 September 2014 - 05:41 PM.

[Boolossus]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but in the first page of 140 doesn't it look as if Kaneki was looking at v14 as if it were behind him? Based on the way the panels are set up and whatnot, I feel this is right before Arima stabs his eye, and from his position he'd be lying down on the floor, so he could be noticing the v14 pillar behind him. That could mean that in the last moments he could see, he had crossed v14, and that same chapter has him achieving temperance, which means ghoul Kaneki we've known since chapter 63 has finally been left behind.

[Kahluah]

Both of you do know that you could have stopped a while ago.......abstaining from an action is a decision you know?

Anyway I don't think that the author would look to deeply at the genetics of it, but that's why it's a work of fiction.

Although I do think that something is very off about Eto.

That's just my attempt at finding that "thing".

Regards

Dibbs

 

I dont like dragging myself into dumb conversations. Especially since I learned all of that in high school biology,heck we probably learned it in 7th grade bio as well they were basically the same class after all. All I did to find out about the mutated gene was google "is red hair recessive" to double check if I was correct and it was literally part of the first answer.

 

I wont disagree that something is off about her, but I think that will be more personality or ethics wise, not heritage and hair color.

[Old McDonald]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but in the first page of 140 doesn't it look as if Kaneki was looking at v14 as if it were behind him? Based on the way the panels are set up and whatnot, I feel this is right before Arima stabs his eye, and from his position he'd be lying down on the floor, so he could be noticing the v14 pillar behind him. That could mean that in the last moments he could see, he had crossed v14, and that same chapter has him achieving temperance, which means ghoul Kaneki we've known since chapter 63 has finally been left behind.

I think you're onto something here. So Arima's first statement - "A ghoul cannot pass beyond V14" - is also wrong, as Kaneki passed beyond V14 at the end of chapter 139.

Which means, "A ghoul cannot pass beyond Volume 14" is also wrong. That's so like Ishida: First he subtly tells you that a ghoul cannot pass beyond volume 14, and then he even more subtly tells you that this statement is wrong.

 

I just hope Ishida stops trolling soon.

[hopeandlight]

Side remark: the translation of Arima's lines could be improved. It contains one small inaccuracy and that greatly changes the figurative meaning.

 

Arima says:

"1) This is V14. A ghoul cannot pass beyond here.

2) You won't advance beyond this (14)."

Do you see the difference? A ghoul cannot pass V14, but Kaneki won't advance beyond 14 (=tarot card). I claim that this difference is deliberate.

 

In the end, Kaneki did pass beyond 14 in chapter 140. He achieved temperance. This can mean two things:

- 2) is wrong. It's doubtful that 1) is a true statement.

- 2) is correct. That means that this statement was applicable to Kaneki in chapter 139, but no longer applicable to Kaneki in chapter 140. It's doubtful that 1) still applies to Kaneki at the end of chapter 140.

 

In short: Arima's claims cannot be taken to mean that Kaneki did not pass beyond V14 (=volume 14).

 

"You won't advance beyond this" ( 14 =temperance), doesn't mean Kaneki has not or will not achieve temperance. It just means he will not go past it from Arima's perspective, since the damage he's sustained may wipe his memory and CCG will try to make it so he never does.

 

 

Going on the memory wipe, Kaneki Ken physically is not dead, but the personality known as Kaneki Ken may be ( at least for now).

 

 

Looking at this page. Let's read it in order. We see two profiles together to serve as contrast. Below a zoom in of the bottom profile shows that it is probably Kaneki's profile, with a big ERASED marked over it that is clearly not on the other profile. 

Right after this Head Honcho Tsuneyoshi say " Arima, the ownership rights are yours. What are you going to do about the name?" While it could be that he is giving Arima the right to name the new quinque series that may be produced from Kaneki, but since it was said right after a view of Kaneki's profile, it may imply Arima get's to name Kaneki himself, going on the theory that Kaneki is gonna be turned into an investigator. 

 

Right before that Tsuneyoshi says, "The pay was big, but whether or not the remuneration you obtained can be increased depends on your actions. And we really don't know what will come out of it?"

 

Now why would what Arima obtained depend the the actions of these two or just Arima? If Kaneki was just going to be used for quinque production, whether or not Kaneki's potential can be maximized would depend on the actions of Laboratory Division.  Tsuneyoshi also says he does not know what will come of it. Quinque production shouldn't give him such a concern. They've made weapons from kakuja before. Now, if Kaneki was to be conditioned as a CCG soldier, Arima would be personally responsible for the success of this project, as ownership rights to Kaneki are his. Conditioning someone like Kaneki ( a ghoul, not to mention an enemy ) to be a CCG soldier would be very difficult. As Tsuneyoshi says, they don't know what will come out of it. 

 

Going back to the parts where Tsuneyoshi says " what are you going to do about the name?"  and Arima says"you won't advance beyond this"

Arima now gets to give Kaneki a different name.  Past Volume 14, the person known as Kaneki Ken will no longer exist on paper along with the personality known as Kaneki Ken. 

 

On the next page, again reading it in order, ones' eyes go to the black briefcase that probably belongs to Arima. One could infer it is quinque made from Kaneki, if he was only used as a kakuhou farm, but this is also looks like the briefcase that hold IXA. Arima may be looking at or thinking about IXA , and remembering how Kaneki pierced it.  He may be thinking "Yes... I'll make Kaneki into a powerful ghoul investigator. Leave it to me." 

 

In addition, would such a powerful kagune be made into a weapon so fast? Not mention, if,as Tsuneyoshi says, they are unsure what will come of it, wouldn't they want to do more testing instead of giving it to Arima right away. The CCG has also suffered major losses, would they have the strength to complete a quinque so quickly? 

 

So, the briefcase next to Arima may simply be IXA, which was given a quick fix (or not...he could have been on his way to fix it lol). 

Nevermind, he does say he will need a new quinque. The point is there no guarantee the case is a quinque made from Kaneki, and the case looks like IXA. Whether or not Arima got a replacement, he is probably think about the potential he saw in Kaneki when he pierced IXA.

 

This not to say Kaneki's kakuhou will not be used for ghoul weapons,  it just that it may not be his only use...

Edited by hopeandlight, 16 September 2014 - 09:27 PM.

[Old McDonald]

"You won't advance beyond this" ( 14 =temperance), doesn't mean Kaneki has not or will not achieve temperance. It just means he will not go past it from Arima's perspective, since the damage he's sustained may wipe his memory and CCG will try to make it so he never does.

Arima thought he won't get past V14. But Kaneki did and he achieved temperance. That's probably why Kaneki is still alive. He was able to go beyond the limits set out by Arima.
 

Right before that Tsuneyoshi says, "The pay was big, but whether or not the remuneration you obtained can be increased depends on your actions. And we really don't know what will come out of it?"
 
Now why would what Arima obtained depend the the actions of these two or just Arima? If Kaneki was just going to be used for quinque production, whether or not Kaneki's potential can be maximized would depend on the actions of Laboratory Division.  Tsuneyoshi also says he does not know what will come of it. Quinque production shouldn't give him such a concern. They've made weapons from kakuja before. Now, if Kaneki was to be conditioned as a CCG soldier, Arima would be personally responsible for the success of this project, as ownership rights to Kaneki are his. Conditioning someone like Kaneki ( a ghoul, not to mention an enemy ) to be a CCG soldier would be very difficult. As, Tsuneyoshi says, they don't know what will come out of it.

I agree here. Producing a quinque or throwing someone into prison isn't a gamble. But I believe Kaneki won't be a "soldier", but rather an investigator and Arima's new partner/subordinate.
 

Going back to the part where Tsuneyoshi says " what are you going to do about the name?"  and "you won't advance beyond this"
Arima now gets to give Kaneki a different name.  Past Volume 14, the person known as Kaneki Ken will no longer exist on paper along with the personality known as Kaneki Ken. 
 
On the next page, again reading it in order, ones' eyes go to the black briefcase that probably belongs to Arima. One could infer it is quinque made from Kaneki, if he was only used as a kakuhou farm, but this is also looks like the briefcase that hold IXA. Arima may be looking at or think about IXA , and remembering how Kaneki pieced it.  He may be thinking "Yes... I'll make Kaneki into a powerful ghoul investigator. Leave it to me." 
 
In addition, would such a powerful kagune be made into a weapon so fast? Not mention, if,as Tsuneyoshi says, they are unsure what will come of it, wouldn't they want to do more testing instead of giving it to Arima right away. The CCG has also suffered major losses, would they have the strength to complete a quinque so quickly? 
 
So, the briefcase next to Arima may simply be IXA, which was given a quick fix (or not...he could have been on his way to fix it lol). 
Nevermind, he does say he will need a new quinque. The point is there no guarantee the case is a quinque made from Kaneki, and the case looks like IXA. Whether or not Arima got a replacement, he is probably think about the potential he saw in Kaneki when he pieced IXA.

The suitcase is probably Narukami.
I mentioned it before, didn't I? Arima doesn't answer "Leave it to me", that translation is completely wrong. He answers "I'll leave it to him". Theoretically, it could also mean "I'll leave it to you". But if this was the intended meaning of this answer, his answer would sound quite amusing to Japanese ears. He would tell his boss to make the decision in a way you should never do in Japanese. I believe that Arima leaves the name decision to a fourth party that is not in on the discussion. Thus, the one who chooses Kaneki's new name is most likely Kaneki himself.
And what follows Arima's answer isn't "yes...", but "yes, se..." But that is so vague that no one can safely tell you how to complete this sentence.

[arcanix93]

So ... i'm going to say this. You are giving me to much hope right now. If nothing will happen, i'm going to be really sad.

Btw weren't the sisters (kurona(?) and w/e, can't remember the name) have an image like this one with a "ERASED" on top just like Kaneki here ?. I'm pretty sure i saw that somewhere.

[hopeandlight]

Arima thought he won't get past V14. But Kaneki did and he achieved temperance. That's probably why Kaneki is still alive. He was able to go beyond the limits set out by Arima.
 
I agree here. Producing a quinque or throwing someone into prison isn't a gamble. But I believe Kaneki won't be a "soldier", but rather an investigator and Arima's new partner/subordinate.
 
The suitcase is probably Narukami.
I mentioned it before, didn't I? Arima doesn't answer "Leave it to me", that translation is completely wrong. He answers "I'll leave it to him". Theoretically, it could also mean "I'll leave it to you". But if this was the intended meaning of this answer, his answer would sound quite amusing to Japanese ears. He would tell his boss to make the decision in a way you should never do in Japanese. I believe that Arima leaves the name decision to a fourth party that is not in on the discussion. Thus, the one who chooses Kaneki's new name is most likely Kaneki himself.
And what follows Arima's answer isn't "yes...", but "yes, se..." But that is so vague that no one can safely tell you how to complete this sentence.

Mmm... this is really going back and forth. 

I am not very specific sometimes. Soldier and investigator are interchangeable. I think the reason, soldier was used because I imagine Kaneki brainwashed.

Kaneki does achieves temperance when he unites his two sides, but Kaneki cannot go past temperance. He cannot carry out actions with his newfound peace within himself because he will soon lose his memories.

Kaneki probably already knows this, as he says he knows what will happen when he awakens. His life is flashing before his eyes in chapter 140.

 

Sorry, I didn't notice. I'll take your word for it.

[Tias]

Sigh

Lurker from a while. I honestly only made an account just to say that peoples hair color CAN change over time. In real life too. As a kid I had dirty blonde hair and now it's dark brown'ish. Not enough with that Kaneki went from BLACK hair to WHITE and Arima has had a hair color change too. So the whole hair color not matching isn't really anything noteworthy.

[Ade_S]

Whenever I see at that image, the feeling I get is one of conflict and transition. This man is about to begin a journey. At first I thought of the image as the representation of the afterlife, but now all I see is a man waiting for the bus to travel. But also you can see how so bits of the pure white of the clouds are being absorbed into the center,  where the palette change to a darker color, first white-navy blue to navy blue-dark green.

Where the man stands (the left side) everything is peaceful but in the (right side) a more chaotic atmosphere is presented. Also as I said the left side has a friendly atmosphere, in the contrary the right side has a more intimidate atmosphere, and the white is falling into the green zone. So perhaps this is a ying-yang thing.  And for this I think this image must be interpreted in a metaphorical way. This scene isn’t happening in reality but in Kaneki’s mind.

Also I can see this as the right side (Kaneki’s ghoul instincts) is in a battle with the left side (Kaneki’s human side) (also remember, Kaneki’s ghoul eye is in the right, the human one is in the left). But this man has already chosen a side, the left one. Kaneki wants to be human, so perhaps he’s in a situation where his Ghoul instincts are in battle with his will, but still he’s waiting for the bus (an opportunity) to go home (Anteiku).

Also in this page Kaneki says; “Please remember me, even if I can no longer see the world”.

 

But also in the anime theme song “In this twisted world, I’m gradually growing transparent and vanishing”.

Now let’s return to the image. Kaneki’s looking is phantasmagoric; he has a black suit like in a funeral. First I thought that Kaneki’s dying, he’s no longer in this world, and for that reason he no longer is able to see the world. But taking the opening lyrics into account perhaps the reason Kaneki “cannot longer sees the world” and slowly is becoming transparent is because his existence to the world has been erased (like in the chapter 143), the CCG has erased all data about him, therefore Kaneki’s no longer visible to the world, but a shadow (a ghost).

In the sequel is likely he is the hands of the CCG, as a ghoul investigator or as a source material to the quinque’s fabrications or either. There is a possibility that Kaneki isn’t in the ghoul prison but in a more secretive place, or maybe he’s in the deepest of the ghoul prison.

 Now again with the first image, Kaneki is near the white, and white means;

“In other cultures it is traditionally related to death and mourning. In these cultures death usually means the end of one life and the beginning of another, moving forward to a new life, so the color psychology meaning of new beginnings still holds.”

As stated before, this could mean the tragedy of Kaneki Ken has already ended, but now begins the real story of Ken Kaneki, the man who isn’t the actor of someone else’s script.

This remembers me something Fuwa Mahiro, a character from the series Zetsuen no Tempest (voiced by Hide’s voice actor), said;

“To you, life was just something you acted out and ended, all according to someone else’s script. That’s why you were always quoting Shakespeare. However, Aika, I say that you were wrong! You did what you shouldn’t have, and didn’t do as you should have. Because you relied on someone else’s script, you were wrong. I won’t live my life by another person’s script. Not by Hamlet or The Tempest. I don’t know how many years in the future it will be… but I’ll write and act my own ending.

Fuwa Mahiro (Zetsuen No Tempest)”

But now with the rest of the color from the first image;

Pink - In color psychology, pink is a sign of hope. It is a positive color inspiring warm and comforting feelings, a sense that everything will be okay.

Blue - From a color psychology perspective, blue is reliable and responsible. This color exhibits an inner security and confidence. You can rely on it to take control and do the right thing in difficult times. It has a need for order and direction in its life, including its living and work spaces.

Blue is the helper, the rescuer, the friend in need. It's success is defined by the quality and quantity of its relationships. It is a giver, not a taker. It likes to build strong trusting relationships and becomes deeply hurt if that trust is betrayed.

Sky Blue: One of the calmest colors, sky blue inspires selfless love and fidelity. It is non-threatening and promotes a helpful nature that can overcome all obstacles. It is the universal healer.

It can also indicate manipulation, unfaithfulness and untrustworthiness.

Green - Olive green: Although the traditional color for peace, 'offering an olive branch', the color olive suggests deceit and treachery, blaming others for its problems. However there is also a strength of character with it that can overcome adversity to develop an understanding and caring of the feelings of others.

So with this my theory is that Kaneki is concurrently in a situation where he’s been manipulated by someone (the CCG?) or by something (his ghoul instincts?), but despite the difficulties he’s faithful to his wish to come back to Anteiku.

In regardless of chapter 143 I don’t think the monologues belong to Kaneki, but to Shinohara, Hinami, Yoshimura, Ayato, Naki, the other guy with the mustache and Suzuya. But if this is true why does the chapter have as tittle “Ken”? Simply because there is no longer "Kaneki", now there is a “Ken”, the life of “Ken” has begun. It’s curious how everyone calls Kaneki by his family name, even Hide who is the closest person to Kaneki calls him by his first name, and now I think is because Kaneki always has put a wall between the himself and the others, therefore nobody calls him by his first name. But now that "Kaneki" has been destroyed only "Ken" remains. A man, who in going to forge his own destiny without following someone else’s libretto.

For this I have problems with Kaneki as a CCG soldier, perhaps the CCG has plans to transform Kaneki to a CCG soldier, but Kaneki (with amnesia) knows something is wrong, perhaps he feels this place isn’t where he truly belong, and in a future scenario he will try to run away.

And what we can conclude with the Tokyo Ghoul Joker is that the 20^th has been become more violent. In a time skip, ghoul gangs have started to invade it, now without Anteiku (the place since where the feeding fields had been spread, and where the respect for these fields was supervised) the feeding fields have become a mess like in the other wards.

But in your opinion, is the “Skull gang” (seen in TG Joker) related to Aogiri?

 

Also, can someone tell how is the status of TG in the page of the Young Jump? Is it established as finished? or what?

[Boolossus]

I agree with all of that, but I also want to bring back the element mentioned before: If you pay attention to the clouds, it kinda looks like an upside down world map, south above north below, Asia being to the right and the Americas being to the left, with the cloud figure standing over the area that'd be more or less Alaska, so that could be yet another hidden meaning there.

 

And yeah, the entire situation on the 20th ward in Joker is pretty much what you'd imagine the place as without Anteiku at helm. Hard times ahead for the 20th ward for sure. Should make for some interesting stuff.

[hopeandlight]

More evidence that the silhouette is Kaneki by Alllix on tumblir

http://rougerue.tumblr.com/post/97433190338/i-noticed-the-sillouette-looked-very-similar-to

 

Interesting observation on Kaneki's countdown

http://koushii.tk/post/97386585120/watch-kaneki-counting-down-by-sevens-while-he-dies

Kaneki's basically out of luck!

 

Tarot : 714

http://tarotcanada.org/ChariotTemperance.html

Edited by hopeandlight, 17 September 2014 - 06:32 AM.

[xAnonymousx]

I'm just gonna come and fuel the Kaneki investigator theory more. Did anyone mention already that in the original raw where someone replies to Arima with "yes, se-", we have the whole yin yang letters thing going on. Kaneki is often associated with yin and yang, iirc. We also have the yin yang characters when Arima said Kaneki's name. So, the person who answered Arima could very well be Kaneki himself.

[kakuhou]

Finally someone started a separate thread for the theories, post ch143. So far, from what I've read here, people seem to be inclined with

 

theory number 1: Kaneki is dead, so move on. If this is indeed true, then hats off to Ishida for having balls of steel to kill our MC just like that. End of conversation. 

 

and

 

theory number 2: Kaneki is an amnesiac ghoul investigator

 

This is highly possible because of the hints bu--t, something just isn't right. (i'm still trying to figure it out) it doesn't sound like Ishida at all. Let's try to think like him.... We already know how sadistic and creative this mangaka can be, that is why he can instantly blow our minds with hidden clues. He likes to foreshadow events and link occurrences to create a solid plot. He is also an unpredictable troll. We should've learned our lesson by now from all the surprises that we get from him. But he is not the repetitive type. If Kaneki ends up as an investigator with amnesia, wouldn't that mean he is still a puppet moving and living according to someone elses will, same as to how the whole story started? If that's the case, then Kaneki's "enlightenment" at ch140 would prove to be useless. What kind of resolve would an amnesiac have if he doesn't even have a clue of who he is. If Ishida is trying to go on the direction of "Kaneki revealing the dark side of CCG" by working there, I don't see him creating any difference or atleast an impact to change the institution considering he has memory loss issues or.. worst case scenario, being brainwashed to fight his ghoul / Anteiku comrades. He already experienced the pain of hurting Banjou so plotting him against Touka or any of them is yet again, a replay of events. So what, he will end up with an apathetic face like Arima? (but like I've said, this is still a half baked notion, need to do some more meditation on this)

 

which also refutes the theory of him being Arata number 2 because as I've said, that event sounds redundant.

 

Lastly, Ishida decided to put an "end" to something. You might call it a reboot, sequel or whatever but the fact that he closed the curtains on this part, means he a) just ended it or option b, he is preparing for something bigger, not to repeat all the past mistakes or tragedies but to "start something". He might provide us with all the answers for the loose ends but I don't see him giving us the same "tragedy recipe" for the next installment. But do expect for more despair and carnage.

If you'll ask me for a wild imagination for the sequel, I want the first scene with Kaneki waking up. If Ishida will stick to his mirroring theme, I want to see Ken wake up in the same way as how he woke up as a ghoul after his Rize accident + surgery. (the - it certainly is a tragedy- narration) but this time, he wakes up with no memories, (if Ishida is truly a sadist then a blind, amnesiac protagonist) no influence from Anteiku or CCG. Just a "new Kaneki". A ghoul with no recollection of anything. It kinda, loosely connects with the oneshot that started the main series, you know, the alternate universe where Kaneki was born as a ghoul.

Edited by kakuhou, 17 September 2014 - 01:25 PM.

[Dibbs]

I dont like dragging myself into dumb conversations. Especially since I learned all of that in high school biology,heck we probably learned it in 7th grade bio as well they were basically the same class after all. All I did to find out about the mutated gene was google "is red hair recessive" to double check if I was correct and it was literally part of the first answer.

 

I wont disagree that something is off about her, but I think that will be more personality or ethics wise, not heritage and hair color.

 

The thing is that I don't even know why everyone takes issue with the hair, but ignores everything else I've listed.

 

For example: Eto engages in cqc on all four of her Kakuja form's "legs", yet all of you ignore that point, and focus on the hair.

 

I don't know about you, but that sounds like a "dumb conversation", and to make sure I'm not contradicting myself I'll quote every post I've made here and highlight every other point I've brought up other than the hair.

 

here goes:

 

"one more thing I consider noteworthy is that in the last chapter (143) the contents of this page ( http://vatoto.com/read/_/272296/tokyo-ghoul_ch143_by_imperial-scans/11 ) you can see capsules with the word (Owl) on them, I think this is the set up for part 2 as the protagonist for part 2 will probably be Amon, how do I know?

 

The l "ghoul investigators Have a more durable body compared to those of the ordinary" quote on the same page could mean that the people being used for the experiment are CCG members that have declared dead by the  CCG ( http://vatoto.com/read/_/271406/tokyo-ghoul_ch142_by_anonymous/17 )

 

The text on this page of chapter 143 ( http://vatoto.com/read/_/272296/tokyo-ghoul_ch143_by_imperial-scans/18 ) are actually a hint to what part 2 of Tokyo Ghoul could be about.

 

"I want to [create] a much more depressing [story]" on this page ( http://vatoto.com/read/_/272296/tokyo-ghoul_ch143_by_imperial-scans/18 )

 

I give out three points of discussion, yet everyone focuses on one of those, if you disagree that's fine but don't regress when I ask you to elaborate on your stance.

 

I don't care if you agree or disagree, I want to know WHY you agree/disagree.

 

 

 

For those who are familiar with this form of inquiry, it was used by Socrates.

 

Continuing with my second post:

 

Above this her abilities as a one eyed ghoul are radically different to her fathers as she never even uses her Kakuho Kugan (a long range type of kugan similar to Kouka's) when she engaged the CCG.

 

She limits herself to cqc.

 

and doesn't she look a little young for a 20 something year old, if I had to wager a bet I would say that she is closer to Kanaki's age then she is to the 'real One Eyed owl"

 

The One Eyed Ghoul that Itori mentions that which could be Eto. (  Itori could very well be talking about Eto as her abilities as a one eyed ghoul are on a completely different scale when compared to every other ghoul, interestingly enough it seems that this One eyed ghoul was found by one of the kids in Uta's gang in the 4th district, another thing that I find interesting is that it's gender couldn't be identified by those who have seen it.  

 

Just on that point, Kuzan placed his kid in the 24th district, if we assume that Eto is the real Owl then wouldn't she be around Yomo or Uta's age? If she is closer to kaneki's age then doesn't that mean that she is too young to be Kuzan's doughter?

 

On top of that this image ( http://vatoto.com/read/_/248481/tokyo-ghoul_v8_ch69_by_twisted-hel-scans/5 ) shows a one eyed owl with very similar abilities to those that Kuzan employs. *Edit that's actually Kuzan himself, so ignore this point.

 

The only reason that makes me doubt that Eto is his doughter is that the ( http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140808130149/tokyoghoul/images/6/6e/Owl1.jpg ) Owl in this image is radically different to ( when it comes to both hair length, color [and kind]) this one full body shot of Eto ( http://vatoto.com/read/_/271406/tokyo-ghoul_ch142_by_anonymous/15 )

 

The thing that gets me is if she does dye her hair then why? She is covered from both head to toe in her bandages when she goes around as Eto, so who is she hiding it from?

 

PS: Here is the only full body shot of the One Eyed owl in Kuzan's flash back that I could find ( http://vatoto.com/read/_/267859/tokyo-ghoul_v12_ch119--v2-_by_anonymous/14 )

 

I'm just trying to explain my reasoning to the best of my abilities.

 

If you would like, I could explain my points.

 

The One Eyed Ghoul that the kid in Uta's gang finds in the fourth district is a young child, that probably is Eto because its younger than Uta at that time, yet no one discusses this.

 

Third post

 

http://vatoto.com/read/_/220264/tokyo-ghoul_v4_ch34_by_twisted-hel-scans/13

 

Now in that page Itori, and Uta bring up a few things that are interesting to say the least:

 

Itori: Back in those days the eye witness reports were preposterous. It's not even certain whether it male or female. There was even a report that it was an old man wasn't there?

 

Uta: I heard that it was a small child. A child in my ward claimed to have seen it.

 

The old man that Itori heard about was Kuzan

 

The small child (at that time) was most likely Eto

 

The male one eyed Ghoul was Kuzan's kid 'real One Eyed Owl'

 

If two out of the three hints in that page were true, then couldn't the third?

 

Also if you look at Eto's hair [ notice that I do not say hair color but only her hair] , it doesn't resemble either Ukino, or Kuzan in the least.

 

Let's assume that Kuzan is her father, then who is her mother? Eto's hair is not only a different color, but a different 'kind of hair' (not curly, or straight (like Ukino and Kuzan but something different, I can't find the name for that specific kind of hair)

 

Now the interesting part, Kuzan can mimic the One Eyed Owl's exterior looks, and his (supposed) fighting style right?

 

So why do they look so different, they're supposed to look very similar to each other in their Kakuja form, but Eto looks nothing like Kuzan's Kakuja form.

 

In the previous page to of the linked chapter Itori says that the one Eyed ghoul she had heard about (Eto) had/has an enormous appetite which as you said could explain her radically different exterior to Kuzan, and you're right about that.

 

But ask yourself this, in chapter 34 three One Eyed ghouls are hinted at, two of them are confirmed later on (one of them being Kuzan in disguise) then would it really be that far fetched that the third one existed as well?

 

In Itori's conversation with Kaneki she refers to the one Eyed ghoul as 'him', Uta brings up a small child, Itori brings up an old man, so wouldn't the third be an adult in his mid 20's or early 30's because she doesn't feel the need to specify his age.

 

TL;DR I personally believe that the 'real One Eyed owl' is both Eto's father, and the One Eyed King.

 

I may be way off base here [ I'm admitting that this has a high probability of being wrong] , but I was able to predict that Kuzan wouldn't die in his encounter with the CCG, and that he was going to be used to create more artificial ghouls, so I do have a good deal of confidence in this one.

 

Also while I'm at it, who here thinks that a Manga like TG would be easy to predict?

 

Certainly not me, Eto's father not being Kuzan would be more of a surprise shock for the readers then her being his doughter even though she is supposed [ http://vatoto.com/read/_/267859/tokyo-ghoul_v12_ch119--v2-_by_anonymous/11 the child in that image has a very different  kind of hair to Eto in this image [http://vatoto.com/read/_/271406/tokyo-ghoul_ch142_by_anonymous/16] have white semi curly hair (I think)

 

I only bring up this child's hair's specific kind, how does it change that drastically, I'm not referring to the color here.

 

now I can get to you

 

Finally commenting on this because this hair color conversation is becoming rather repetitive when it comes to arguing about where she got it from. Are you saying that people have to have the same hair color or similar hair color to their parents? Following that logic im not my parents kid because they have brown hair and mine is blond.

 

Nope, what I'm saying is that in a span of 20 or less years your hair can't naturally change from white,blond to red/brown, and that it is possibly a hint towards something, why are you focusing on the color?

 

Hair color is by no means a viable reason to say people are or are not related. And if we base this off actual genetics its possible she can have red or red/redborwn hair because it is a recessive gene with a mutation in the MC1R gene. If the father had black hair he could have had one dominant and on recessive gene, and white/bond hair has both genes recessive. So it is possible to have a child with both recessive genes and if the parent passed on the mutated gene it would result in red hair color.

 

In manga (as far as I can tell) the change of a characters hair is a visual depiction of either an external or internal transformation of some sort, so in that sense it is important, what internal/external transformation did Eto go through?

 

Kaneki's hair changed from black to white because of his exclusive torture session with Yamamori, it changed in order to show the internal change going on within Kaneki's mind which if my memory suits me right is that he now accepts his existence as a ghoul.

 

 

Sigh

Lurker from a while. I honestly only made an account just to say that peoples hair color CAN change over time. In real life too. As a kid I had dirty blonde hair and now it's dark brown'ish. Not enough with that Kaneki went from BLACK hair to WHITE and Arima has had a hair color change too. So the whole hair color not matching isn't really anything noteworthy.

 

That's something I would like to know more about, what can cause your hair to change colors from dirty blonde to darkish brown, do tell.

 

I do know that both age, and stress contribute to the natural change of hair from (insert hair color) to white. 

 

The kid in this page http://vatoto.com/read/_/267859/tokyo-ghoul_v12_ch119--v2-_by_anonymous/11 has 'fluffy' hair, and the one in this image http://vatoto.com/read/_/271406/tokyo-ghoul_ch142_by_anonymous/16 doesn't.

 

That is the 'thing' I want to know about

 

If you can solve that, then congratulations

 

If you can't then don't worry about it.

 

If you find this thing to be annoying, then stop contributing to the (this posts) topic.

 

There you go.

 

Regards

 

Dibbs

 

PS: I'm still new here so I haven't gotten around multi-quoting prevision pages. so I just copied the posts here encase anyone asks.

 

PPS: I probably forgot to include some stuff so feel free to call me out on anything I may have forgotten if you think it's worth discussing, not if you disagree with it.

[hopeandlight]

Going crazy over this...

It may be better to wait for good translations, as Old Mcdonald brought up parts that could be translated better.

 

Analyzing pictures should be safe.

Anyways the white outline also look like pages out of a book 

 

Flipping it upside down, it looks like a guy with a lance in attacking the silhouette (Kaneki).

And lol he's hanging upside down like The Hanged Man.

 

Interpretation of Upside Down Page: Cloud on the left:  The Lance Guy. He's got people chasing after him from his past ( in Tokyo Ghoul).

Cloud on the Right: Big color changes. His new existence as an investigator will start with no memory, but he will soon realize things are not right, with big holes in his memories.