58 replies to this topic

[Nualie]

 

 

?Young Asha:

Do you really think... they were all mistakes?

 

?Rao Leez:

Yes. To me, at least, they are definitely accidents.

//No matter what others may say.

 

 

I'm not sure how many times she killed, but she could have in the 3 years between N5 and N8 when we don't know where she was...

[Mizura]

Spoilers for the latest chapter:
 

So basically, the trial occurred either before Asha met Brilith (which was my original assumption), or when the two were in Eloth. After that, Asha changed outfits and traveled back to Atera with Brilith. On the way, she killed off more targets, and probably disappeared completely after Atera.

 
Looks like the trial did happen when Asha was traveling with Brilith, and now it's more and more likely that Brilith was a witness to at least one of Asha's murders.
 

(blue dots are confirmed targets that disappeared between N11 and N13. 4 dots were off-screened, so I marked possible additional ones in green)
(note: the wrong target in Eloth was crossed out, I should have placed the dot on the other one too)

Basically:

• The 29^th murder happened in early N12, when both of them got to Eloth (the exams in Rindhallow were held at the very end of N11).
• Her trial was held right then and there. After that, I imagine she travelled with Brilith back to Atera, and eventually changed into the outfit Brilith gave her.

I actually suspect that the prosecution is wrong on one point. She claims that Asha needed the HSS because the 29^th person moved, but that she somehow knew the whereabouts of the other targets. That’s off, because there were many more targets remaining than that one person, and most (such as Leez) didn’t move (see dots on Saha’s search). If Asha wanted to minimize risks, she’d first go after the other ones that hadn’t moved, Then search for the ones that did.
 
Here’s what I think:

• Asha didn’t know the whereabouts of the ones with the Name of a God, nor their numbers. Right now, we know that she murdered 32 people, and that 16 died between N11 and N13. Of those, 4 overlap with the murder cases, so 44 people total (lol, 4 is the number of death in Chinese). However, there were probably also Half targets that weren’t included, since we learned some time ago that Tilda may be a target.
• Asha had to use trial and error to find those people. She killed and revived people repeatedly, searching for the right targets (she can probably tell when a kill is correct by an increase in power or such).
• However, Halfs don’t follow the same death mechanism as humans, just like the deaths of suras are out of the jurisdiction of the gods (or they’d just cross their names off lol). The death of suras and halfs are probably registered automatically, with no delay, and are permanent. Hence, Asha couldn’t revive the Halfs she killed wrongly.
• This trial and error method was too slow. In 4 years, she only found and killed 28 people, at a pace of 7 per year, plus the remaining ones would only become harder to find. The uses of hoti visnu was probably taking their toll too, so Asha needed to find a more efficient method. After obtaining information on the remaining targets, she wasted no time to kill targets nearby: one in Eloth and 3 nearby. The targets in Eloth are the riskiest because Saha can keep an eye on the whole city, so that’s probably how she got caught. She got trialed, then released.
• After that she traveled back to Atera with Brilith. And she killed additional targets, starting with ones within cities so that once she’s done, she can focus on targets outside of cities, where she’d be harder to track. Her 3 years disappearance basically show that she didn’t enter any cities during that time, hence her movements couldn’t be tracked at the checkpoints.

Now, interesting factoid: all the other AAs have used the HSS. I suspect:

• Lorraine is the one Asha approached and asked.
• Laila seems to know something about what's going on as well, so she may have made the same search. The one survivor in Rindhallow may be under her protection (those who received the oracles may have chosen the one they want to protect). On the other hand, She may have killed the other one in Rindhallow.
• Claude probably investigated too and helped Asha cover up her tracks (I think he's the one who got to the additional evidence first and silenced those people).

That said, I wonder if Asha really did go after additional targets during her 3 years disappearance. Judging from the locations of sura attacks, she's done a poor job of cleaning up the remaining targets. Or did she hand the list to God Kubera who then sent the suras to take care of them? D:

Edited by Mizura, 31 March 2015 - 06:01 AM.

[Skjae]

However, Halfs don’t follow the same death mechanism as humans, just like the deaths of suras are out of the jurisdiction of the gods (or they’d just cross their names off lol). The death of suras and halfs are probably registered automatically, with no delay, and are permanent. Hence, Asha couldn’t revive the Halfs she killed wrongly.

 

that, or she didn't care about resurrecting halfs... after all, killing halfs is not considered murder, and i guess it would have been better for her to use hoti visnu only when necessary...

 

 

Btw, hi! I'm a kubera fan, but i didn't have an account here in batoto to post in the forum. I created one right now because i've been thinking about it for a while, so i'll probably join some discussions from now on. After all, this is the better place to talk about kubera, from what i know

Edited by Skjae, 31 March 2015 - 01:14 PM.

[Nualie]

Spoilers for the latest chapter:
 
 
Looks like the trial did happen when Asha was traveling with Brilith, and now it's more and more likely that Brilith was a witness to at least one of Asha's murders.
 

(blue dots are confirmed targets that disappeared between N11 and N13. 4 dots were off-screened, so I marked possible additional ones in green)
(note: the wrong target in Eloth was crossed out, I should have placed the dot on the other one too)

Basically:

• The 29^th murder happened in early N12, when both of them got to Eloth (the exams in Rindhallow were held at the very end of N11).
• Her trial was held right then and there. After that, I imagine she travelled with Brilith back to Atera, and eventually changed into the outfit Brilith gave her.

I actually suspect that the prosecution is wrong on one point. She claims that Asha needed the HSS because the 29^th person moved, but that she somehow knew the whereabouts of the other targets. That’s off, because there were many more targets remaining than that one person, and most (such as Leez) didn’t move (see dots on Saha’s search). If Asha wanted to minimize risks, she’d first go after the other ones that hadn’t moved, Then search for the ones that did.
 
Here’s what I think:

• Asha didn’t know the whereabouts of the ones with the Name of a God, nor their numbers. Right now, we know that she murdered 32 people, and that 16 died between N11 and N13. Of those, 4 overlap with the murder cases, so 44 people total (lol, 4 is the number of death in Chinese). However, there were probably also Half targets that weren’t included, since we learned some time ago that Tilda may be a target.
• Asha had to use trial and error to find those people. She killed and revived people repeatedly, searching for the right targets (she can probably tell when a kill is correct by an increase in power or such).
• However, Halfs don’t follow the same death mechanism as humans, just like the deaths of suras are out of the jurisdiction of the gods (or they’d just cross their names off lol). The death of suras and halfs are probably registered automatically, with no delay, and are permanent. Hence, Asha couldn’t revive the Halfs she killed wrongly.
• This trial and error method was too slow. In 4 years, she only found and killed 28 people, at a pace of 7 per year, plus the remaining ones would only become harder to find. The uses of hoti visnu was probably taking their toll too, so Asha needed to find a more efficient method. After obtaining information on the remaining targets, she wasted no time to kill targets nearby: one in Eloth and 3 nearby. The targets in Eloth are the riskiest because Saha can keep an eye on the whole city, so that’s probably how she got caught. She got trialed, then released.
• After that she traveled back to Atera with Brilith. And she killed additional targets, starting with ones within cities so that once she’s done, she can focus on targets outside of cities, where she’d be harder to track. Her 3 years disappearance basically show that she didn’t enter any cities during that time, hence her movements couldn’t be tracked at the checkpoints.

Now, interesting factoid: all the other AAs have used the HSS. I suspect:

• Lorraine is the one Asha approached and asked.
• Laila seems to know something about what's going on as well, so she may have made the same search. The one survivor in Rindhallow may be under her protection (those who received the oracles may have chosen the one they want to protect). On the other hand, She may have killed the other one in Rindhallow.
• Claude probably investigated too and helped Asha cover up her tracks (I think he's the one who got to the additional evidence first and silenced those people).

That said, I wonder if Asha really did go after additional targets during her 3 years disappearance. Judging from the locations of sura attacks, she's done a poor job of cleaning up the remaining targets. Or did she hand the list to God Kubera who then sent the suras to take care of them? D:

 

Claude had never met Asha, did he? He said something like "I always wanted to meet you", no?

That and she seemed surprised he knew so much. 

 

As for Lorraine... She's the only remaining AA that didn't receive an oracle, no? So Asha's request wold have sounded "innocent"...

 

But Lorraine doesn't seem to know much about the Kubera stuff. She didn't comment... 

 

So, is it Laila then?

[Mizura]

Actually, we asked translators and they explained that the Korean sentence could either mean "I've always wanted to see you" or basically imply jokingly that they haven't seen each other in a long time. It's unclear which.

[Nualie]

Actually, we asked translators and they explained that the Korean sentence could either mean "I've always wanted to see you" or basically imply jokingly that they haven't seen each other in a long time. It's unclear which.

Darn. And the whole "Carte witness" thingie? Any idea? 

May have a link with the mistakes that Rao talked about...

[BehindTheLighT]

that, or she didn't care about resurrecting halfs... after all, killing halfs is not considered murder, and i guess it would have been better for her to use hoti visnu only when necessary...

 

 

Btw, hi! I'm a kubera fan, but i didn't have an account here in batoto to post in the forum. I created one right now because i've been thinking about it for a while, so i'll probably join some discussions from now on. After all, this is the better place to talk about kubera, from what i know

 

 

Oooh, an italian. If you want check our italian version. The one in my sign

[Skjae]

Oooh, an italian. If you want check our italian version. The one in my sign

 

sure, i will (i wanted to re-read kubera anyway) ^^

But to be honest, i usually prefer to read in english because italian translations are often made from english ones and not directly from the original language, and reading a translation of a translation usually is less accurate (even if just a bit).

Edited by Skjae, 31 March 2015 - 07:41 PM.

[BehindTheLighT]

sure, i will (i wanted to re-read kubera anyway) ^^

But to be honest, i usually prefer to read in english because italian translations are often made from english ones and not directly from the original language, and reading a translation of a translation usually is less accurate (even if just a bit).

 

Yeah, same for me.

[Upset]

• This trial and error method was too slow. In 4 years, she only found and killed 28 people, at a pace of 7 per year, plus the remaining ones would only become harder to find. The uses of hoti visnu was probably taking their toll too, so Asha needed to find a more efficient method. After obtaining information on the remaining targets, she wasted no time to kill targets nearby: one in Eloth and 3 nearby.

Or maybe she wanted to find out who was Rao's daughter in order to spare her.

 

But there's something weird.

Sagara  is looking to obtain something from the deaths of those named Kubera, but she has no problem with Maruna killing them, so you don't need to kill them personally.

So why would "The Man Formerly Known As Kubera"  go to the trouble of carrying suras to the human realm when Asha was killing them rather efficiently?

Something new must have happened. Maybe Asha decided to stop killing them and he needed someone else to kill.

Or maybe he wanted the(some) name holders not to die and used the suras to escalate things.

Anyway something must have happened that led him to that decision.

 

Also, if he was involved with Asha then it's possible that she didn't need the HSS.Agni was able to identify how many people were named like him and even to know their location.

Maybe TMFKAK doesn't have that ability anymore because he's lost his name, but he recognized Leez as a nameholder immediately so it's probable that he can.

[Daria_]

Or maybe she wanted to find out who was Rao's daughter in order to spare her.

 

But there's something weird.

Sagara  is looking to obtain something from the deaths of those named Kubera, but she has no problem with Maruna killing them, so you don't need to kill them personally.

So why would "The Man Formerly Known As Kubera"  go to the trouble of carrying suras to the human realm when Asha was killing them rather efficiently?

Something new must have happened. Maybe Asha decided to stop killing them and he needed someone else to kill.

Or maybe he wanted the(some) name holders not to die and used the suras to escalate things.

Anyway something must have happened that led him to that decision.

 

Also, if he was involved with Asha then it's possible that she didn't need the HSS.Agni was able to identify how many people were named like him and even to know their location.

Maybe TMFKAK doesn't have that ability anymore because he's lost his name, but he recognized Leez as a nameholder immediately so it's probable that he can.

 

Well god Kubera doesn't really need help to find and kill his homonyms anyway. Like when he found Leez in Atera
He knows where they are and can enter into cities without being detected. So the real mystery is why he didn't do the job himself 

[Upset]

Well god Kubera doesn't really need help to find and kill his homonyms anyway. Like when he found Leez in Atera
He knows where they are and can enter into cities without being detected. So the real mystery is why he didn't do the job himself 

Indeed.

I can imagine a few possibilities.

-It doesn't count if he kills them. It has to be someone else.

-He's acting out of obligation for the ananta clan but doesn't want to kill them himselff.

-He's unsure on what to do, so he lets someone else cast the die for him. The sura may succeed, or the target may survive. He'll take whatever comes. 

[Grotesque]

Indeed.

I can imagine a few possibilities.

-It doesn't count if he kills them. It has to be someone else.

-He's acting out of obligation for the ananta clan but doesn't want to kill them himselff.

-He's unsure on what to do, so he lets someone else cast the die for him. The sura may succeed, or the target may survive. He'll take whatever comes. 

But didn't he go to kill Leez? The only reason she's alive right now is because she kicked him in the sack right before he crushed her neck.

Which makes me wonder why it mattered that she had potential. What does it have to do with him letting her live? As to not waste her talents or what? Why should it matter in whether he kills her or not?

[Upset]

Well he didn't try to kill her at first.

He only looked for her after she survived Maruna's attack.

[Grotesque]

Well he didn't try to kill her at first.

He only looked for her after she survived Maruna's attack.

Ah, true.

[Nualie]

I suspect we should revive that thread...

[rojo]

Spoiler

Well, we for sure know that it was Lorraine who used the HSS for Asha.
Also that Asha couldn't have murdered anyone during her 3 year disappearance because she... didn't actually exist during that period of time.

Edited by themantarays, 07 July 2015 - 02:31 AM.
spoilers

[themantarays]

No spoilers please~

[Mizura]

Yes, I need to update this. Recent events have already shown a few things wrong with my previous analysis.

 

Spoiler

Namely, since we now know that Asha -literally didn't exist- during 3 years, this means the lack of murders within cities is not due to her avoiding checkpoints. Now, it seems Currygom left us a bunch of clues regarding the fact Asha disappeared:

• Since the sura attacks correspond to the location of the remaining Kuberas, it shows that Asha didn't bother to kill off the rest for some reason.
• hoti visnu messes up your existence somehow, and it messes with time.
• Claude understood something after seeing Asha, and we know that what he sees is lifespan.
• in Brilith's "this is obviously a flashback" when Agni came back, we see Asha wearing her current outfit, and looking exactly like she does now. Basically, she already had the current appearance back then, and didn't change in 3 years, that and Brilith again repeated something about Asha 'disappearing'.
• And nobody questioned the disappearance of a celebrity like Asha for 3 years. I actually didn't think of this at all, though RWF  at least did find this weird.

 

With all that said, it never occurred to me at all that she had disappearance for 3 years. T__T

 

Also something I didn't think about: the fact that she had also murdered many Halfs named Kubera, but obviously they wouldn't count as murders.

 

With all that said, we know most of the murders that she's committed between N11 and N13, there are just a few for which we haven't confirmed the location. I'll have to find back the chapters and make a few screenshots. Personally, I think she may have killed off the targets in Mistyshore and Aeroplateau. The ones in Kalibloom could have died in the mess that is the attack on Kalibloom. In fact, there was mention of a Half being killed back then, perhaps someone used the ensuing chaos to kill off one of the targets? Who though? Claude and Asha both seemed occupied, I should check again.

Edited by Mizura, 08 July 2015 - 01:06 AM.