58 replies to this topic

[Mizura]

Oops, fixed. Thanks!

In the past, there have been images that we thought were symbolic (example, Shakuntala being dragged away by a shadowy figure), that turned out to be actual scenes. So, that scene of Asha probably happened. Since Carte was destroyed when she was young, it can't be adult Asha returning to Carte.

[TERO]

2. Murder counts and location

In Saha's investigation, the number of dots decreased from 35 to 19 between N11 and N13, so... 16 deaths. That's less than Asha's 29 murder records, and less than the 21 Known to be using an alias. Either Asha started earlier than N11 and those cases were then found

I think Asha started picking off targets soon after she arrived on Willarv. If the people (or some of the people) Riche wanted to revive had the names of gods, and were people Asha killed, then it would make sense that Asha would not take the offer for 1 million gold to revive them (s2-ch92). And to say it was "a shame" (that she could not take the offer) makes me think even more so that Asha killed them ._.

 

Also, Asha had to fight for her survival on Carte, I believe? So if she's been killing sura since she was a preteen, I don't think it's far off to say she was killing name holders while she was still in university (i.e., less than 17 years old).

Edited by TERO, 19 June 2014 - 05:09 AM.

[Mizura]

Whoa, damn, I'm confused about the chronology again. Look at this:

 

Brilith's flashback: Asha is wearing her current outfit. (book spoiler, though by now it can be guessed: Brilith is the one who picked Asha's current outfit)

http://vatoto.com/read/_/108278/kubera_v1_ch78_by_the-company

 

Around trial time: Asha still wearing her old outfit.

http://vatoto.com/read/_/244422/kubera_v2_ch91_by_the-company

 

Brilith's flashback probably occurred when Asha was taking her back to Atera. If that's the case though, there's the question of her trial time again. I don't think she changed back, because even her hairstyle changed by Brilith's flashback.

 

Assuming there are no mistakes / imaginary scenes, the possible explanation would be: Asha had located targets on her own in Eloth (possible, since she studied there for a few years), and killed them off by herself. But she needed the human search system to find targets that weren't in Eloth. So basically, the trial occurred either before Asha met Brilith (which was my original assumption), or when the two were in Eloth. After that, Asha changed outfits and traveled back to Atera with Brilith. On the way, she killed off more targets, and probably disappeared completely after Atera.

 

Or.... something. *ponders*

 

I also wonder if the scenes shown in ch. 78 were organized by city?

• Rindhallow: Claude, Laila, I guess Airi happened to be there. Dunno why Ruche would be there. Basically, when Brilith was taking the magic exams.
• Eloth: Saha On, the person with the staff of Brilith's mother... Lorraine was there during the magic fashion bonanza, not sure what Praul was doing there, and oooh, Riche probably happened to be there? If the trial really did occur when Brilith and Asha were in Eloth, then Riche could have been in town during the trial. And that would also explain why Riche knows that Asha hates skirts (I mean, if she happened across Brilith and Asha shopping, or heard Asha complain around that time)
• Of course, we then have the 3 temple magicians in Atera.

Hmm...

[Tsubaki]

Hm, I somehow don’t think that are flashbacks in ch. 78… to me it looks more like Brillith is remembering humans she met in her life and tries to find one that was important until she remembers Asha. But it’s a possibility… this is even more confusing… we need more info >.<

In fact we don’t even know for how many homicide cases Asha’s trial was held. We just know that she payed a penalty fee for 29 cases and in another 3 cases she was suspect but had an alibi so she was acquitted, which is now questionable because in two cases objects showed time error (Riches document).

A big problem for me is that we don’t know if she really killed always just 1 human with the name, or if while she was killing of a target she had a collateral damage on other persons…

First option would mean she must have started before N11, because there are only 16 deaths between N11 and N13, means she had to have killed at least 13 name holders before N11. Which I somehow can’t believe… It just doesn’t make sense to me that she started the killing while still in university. Reasons: she was not really mobile thus easier to track down.

Plus of this 16 deaths only 13 (I think you missed one dot Mizura those two dots under Eloth to me it looks like the left one vanished and only the right one stayed). Could be that the other 3 were those which Asha was only suspect and they happened elsewhere, she used Hoti Visnu and thus nobody knew she was there o.o 

But then again in Ruches documents it sounds like there really was always only one victim… agh

Whatever, I’d rather think, that she started after graduating and also killed people close to the victims… family and such D:

 

I’m thinking like this: Asha could find the targets on her own and needed the human search system solely to find the human called Kubera Leez, so she could make sure that she wouldn’t kill Rao’s daughter while erasing humans with the name (of course for Saha it would look like she was using the hss to find targets…). I’m considering the possibility that she knew Rao’s child was a daughter so she was only killing off male targets, while going from Eloth to Rindhallow and traveling with Brillith before she got to use the human search system. I suddenly have to think of how Asha asked Brillith if she had another stalker <.<;

In the one year of her activity she showed her value as a magician, became famous and earned a lot of money while secretly getting rid of more targets. At the and of the year she got tracked down and the trial was held before she vanished until N15.

 

What I really don't understand is... At the crime scenes there must have happened something that made use of magic necessary, right? I mean you can't run to a city or town use a spell out of the blue, kill someone and later on say it was an accident, without explaining why you used the spell in the first place, even if you are a super talented, valuable magician... I think.

[Mizura]

Well, this is Kubera. Scenes that loooked like abstract concepts or imagined scenes often turn out to be actual scenes. For me, the most convincing case for this is the fact that Lorraine and Riche are both in the second panel for Eloth. We know that Lorraine was in Eloth when Brilith went there. If Brilith were thinking of her current situation though, Lorraine would be in the last panel, with the temple magicians from Atera. Also, Riche being present in Eloth would explain why she knows about the trial. Besides, Brilith wouldn't have thought of Riche if Riche spent her time in Kal.... oooh, I get it now. Riche may have gone to Eloth to get the Neutral Bow modified (ch. 2-16). Obviously, she couldn't have had it modified in Kalibloom, Chaos barrier and all. xD

 

Oh yes, and we KNOW Ruche was in Rindhallow, because she was in charge of the barrier test for Wind.

 

Also, most of the people in Brilith's flashback are people she couldn't have easily encountered as a Priestess, since she's stuck in Atera. So it makes sense that she was thinking of her trip back then.

 

As for the missing dot: I know which one you're talking about, but it's hard to tell because it could have been off-screened. The angles between frames weren't exactly the same, so I can't just overlap the two images.

 

As for Asha, actually, she didn't necessarily kill them while studying. She could have just as easily:

- Merely identified them while in Eloth (just listen around for rumors and such)

- Killed them all in one go

- Fled to Rindhallow to take the exams

- Come back to Eloth, gone through the trials, and walked off scot-free.

 

We've learned from Siera that governance in Kubera's world tends to be rather... well it sucks. It's not entirely the humans' fault, because they are still transitioning from a time period when the Gods used to decide everything. Asha could have known, then, that the jury would treat her case in a half-hearted manner (especially if they're used to deaths all around and don't think of a bunch of unregistered civilians as a big deal. It could be a small number compared to Sura attacks, for example). Also, Asha may have made preparations beforehand, forming connections and maybe bribing people.

 

Speaking of bribing, where do you think Asha's fortune comes from? I have a theory that Rao Leez left his money to her, but it's also possible that she's being supported by someone like Lorraine. I don't think she earned that much just by working. A single healing spell is only 20 gold. There's no way she could have accumulated a bit fortune in such a short time (unless she was also a hitman for someone else, but that still sounds fishy).

Edited by Mizura, 28 June 2014 - 04:04 AM.

[themantarays]

As for Asha, actually, she didn't necessarily kill them while studying. She could have just as easily:

- Merely identified them while in Eloth (just listen around for rumors and such)

- Killed them all in one go

- Fled to Rindhallow to take the exams

- Come back to Eloth, gone through the trials, and walked off scot-free.

 

I've been skipping most of the posts essays on Asha's possible progression of murders, so forgive me if I'm repeating stuff, but you're saying that letter from Saha to Laila wasn't just about her test scores??

[Tsubaki]

Okay Mizura you've convinced me, this totally are flashbacks xD

 

Hm.. Saha's letter would probably have looked different if she was suspected of murder while she was still in Rindhallow, it's possible that they found out while she was traveling back to Eloth tough. 
Btw this letter from Saha to Laila has been bothering me. We know that Rindhallow is the only place were the difficulty of the third exam depends on the scores from the previous exams... if Saha implies that the testing system could deal damage to testing partner and that Asha should take the exam at Eloth or Mistyshore, doesn't that mean that he knows about her high divine affinity o.o?

 

You're right the gouvernment sucks. But I just remembered, when Leez first met Gandharva... at least it is forbidden to use magic against humans. True could be that Asha did something to get important people on her side... and only Saha cared.

About her fortune... in this one year she might have done more difficult or dangerous jobs which were payed better, was what I was thinking. I also thought she might have a sponsor (Lorraine) or something but somehow that somehow doesn't suit Asha. You could be right about Rao leaving his money to her instead of his family, since they had to stay in hiding and people seem to think they died <.<

[Nualie]

I have a wild theory about Asha. (Not very likely, but worth saying I think...)

First, what we know about her: 

-Orphan from Carte at 10.

-Passed Carte Magic Exam before 10 yrs old.

-Divine affinity: X0 515 (Let's say 10 515)

-Killed 29 people, has an alibi for 3 more (most likely 32 people on the 35 that Saha searched) and it is believed that there are more murders. However, we do not know if the initial search included more people.

-No right arm, or a weird one. (Probably none)

-It was explained that you can get rid of user-bound items if you cut your arm but do not heal it.

-Ghandal can pass for a pureblood if he dosen't have his sura right eye. So if you cut off all sura parts, you can pretend to be a pureblood. (But you need to have corresponding regeneration rate and transcendantal value, since he lowered both)

-Asha has encountered at least two gods. (Kubera and Visnu)

-She has a revenge to take, but is not likely to "win".

- Seemingly hunted down and killed people with a god's name.

 

First of all, Asha needs a mobile for her murders. However, according to a flashback of Asha's when Brilith took her defense in Rindhallow, she has always been a genius (She was even considered a freak in her young days. I believe the flashback happened on Carte, but it could be elsewhere. In any case, with such an angle, she was rather small), so she did not use the power of the name for herself. Killing a human with a god's name changes the power of the god (That is what Sagara said).  Which leaves a possibility, she passed a contract with Kubera: She had to kill those with the name "Kubera" and he would help her revenge. If Leez is the last one, that would explain why "discarding her" would make the possibility of her victory clear. However, Leez is the daughter of Rao and Asha got attached to her, so she can't bring herself to kill her. Being reminded of the god in her dream would have brought her to try to kill Leez in her sleep, but she woke up. That would also explain Asha's question to Yuta in Riche's basement ("If Leez and I were to fight, on whose side would you stand?").

 

So? Likely?

[themantarays]

Good job, but, um, fyi, that is the main theory around here already.

[Nualie]

Good job, but, um, fyi, that is the main theory around here already.

I didn't read it all... And my initial goal was to summarize what we knew about her. 

[Mizura]

Oooh! (spoilers for the current raws by the way)

The latest chapter revealed something interesting: Asha is being held for trial for 3 additional murders, but only 3. That means most of the murders shown in Saha's previous searches occurred Before the trial (else there'd be a much higher count than 3 since). Here's how it could have went:

• 12th month of N11: Asha graduated.
• Start of N12: Asha arrives at Eloth with Brilith, and she's turned down when she asks to use the human search system. Asha then accompanies Brilith back to Atera.
• N12: Asha goes around killing people. She goes to various cities during this time.
• Some time in N12: the trial is held.
• Between the trial and the start of N13: no additional crimes. Asha disappears before the start of N13.

As I noted on the previous page, between N11 and N13, 4 murder cases are not shown on screen. With the timeline assumption from above, we can count 7 murders whose locations are unclear. Now, which ones are gone, that shouldn't have been murdered by the suras?

• There is no longer a living target in Aeroplateau.
• It seems none are left in Kalibloom, either.
• No targets left around Atera. There should have been 1 left.
• Interestingly enough, there has never been a mention of the suras attacking Mistyshore.

I think Asha may have killed off all the targets in Mistyshore, which accounts for why the suras didn't bother attacking there. That said, it is possible that they did attack targets outside the city, but they were mistaken as being from Gandharva Halfs going berserk. As for the 3 she's killed since, one may have been the remaining target near Atera. And she may have killed additional targets, while traveling with Leez, in either Mistyshore or Kalibloom. She often leaves Leez alone in the hotel then goes out to do something on her own, after all. Maybe she was killing people. D:

Apart from that, I wouldn't be surprised if Claude also had a hand in Kalibloom. Remember the report about a Half being murdered? What if it were one of the targets? Anyway, both Asha and Claude had plenty of opportunities to kill while in Kalibloom. Heck, Claude was even wandering around on his own.

So? What's your guess?

There is one quite interesting question, by the way. If Asha wasn‘t killing more targets during her 3 years disappearance, what was she doing?

Edited by Mizura, 09 March 2015 - 05:14 PM.

[BehindTheLighT]

 

• No targets left around Atera. There should have been 1 left.

 

this one has probably been killed in the story timeline, post the night it rained fire. Since kubera sent sagara and co to attack atera knowing full well that leez wasn't there anymore. And i doubt he sent them to die for nothing.

 

Probably the mistery hand is the culprit.

Edited by BehindTheLighT, 09 March 2015 - 05:31 PM.

[rojo]

From the looks of the flashbacks in today's chapter, some of the murders occurred even before she graduated- she looks much younger in them than in Brilith's flashbacks. Rao was there too- which means either she started killing before N5 or Rao survived past his last known sighting.

[isiana]

this one has probably been killed in the story timeline, post the night it rained fire. Since kubera sent sagara and co to attack atera knowing full well that leez wasn't there anymore. And i doubt he sent them to die for nothing.

 

Probably the mistery hand is the culprit.

Sagara did say that the target in Atera hadn't been eliminated (since Kubera's power hadn't changed). So it's possible he never told her that Leez left the city.

[BehindTheLighT]

Sagara did say that the target in Atera hadn't been eliminated (since Kubera's power hadn't changed). So it's possible he never told her that Leez left the city.

 

Off course he didn't. The point is that he sent them to attack anyway. So there must have been another name holder in atera. The one who previously was in a village near

[Nualie]

Well, I remember from the report that she had alibis for 3 unclear cases.

So actually, they're not new: They just know now that alibis are irrelevant because of Hoti Visnu.

But it's interesting to know that Asha killed as a child (at least she looks younger than 16)- before Rao died/disappeared. 

Maybe actually, her aim was to save the remaining Kuberas all along (as in since chapter 1: she did come all the way to Leez's village. Not necessarily to kill her.): her objective could've changed since as a child, and she's really on the "good" side now?

...

...

...

Okay, not that likely. But must be mentioned.

But what bothers me is her hair. (Yes, her hair.)

The overall timeline is weird; She does look around 10 in the bloody snowy past, when she had very long hair, and we see her with Rao after killing and after her hair was cut.

Major clue. Was she into some kind of cross-dressing? (Sry, Faunwea.) Her hair could not have grown that much.

The only thing we now know is that it was after bloody snowy past, and after whatever killed her mom (she still had long hair)

And that Rao was still alive after her hair was cut, after she killed those people, possibly after or right before the trial. (Since she killed 32 people, among which 3 she had an alibi for?)

Which pushes the timeline. We do know...

Wait. She joined Eloth academy aged 13. Right? Not aged 10.

What did she do between N5 and N8?

She looked around that age with her hair cut. Could it be...

She lived with Rao for three years after they arrived to Willarv? But then, why didn't he go to Anna? Couldn't find her? Had to hide?

Or did she just go to the Academy? But then, when was that stuff with Rao?

 

Edit:

 

Off course he didn't. The point is that he sent them to attack anyway. So there must have been another name holder in atera. The one who previously was in a village near

But, Leez was the one near the city, in the village, no?

So if there was a target inside of Atera, he/she was still alive at that time.

Edited by Nualie, 09 March 2015 - 06:56 PM.

[BehindTheLighT]

 

But, Leez was the one near the city, in the village, no?

So if there was a target inside of Atera, he/she was still alive at that time.

 

 

In chapter 94, I think, there were 2 dots near atera. Maruna attacked places near eloth, rindhallow and kalibloom, and then leez's village. So he didn't attack the second village near atera.

[isiana]

Off course he didn't. The point is that he sent them to attack anyway. So there must have been another name holder in atera. The one who previously was in a village near

Ah ok, I get what you're saying. But isn't it pretty unlikely that person would move to the city after it already got attacked once (by Maruna/Gandharva)? When Maruna attacked the city the first time (chapter 19), he was only concerned about the target who escaped him in Leez's village. He never talks about multiple people, only the "kid with the god's name".

Edited by isiana, 09 March 2015 - 09:14 PM.

[BehindTheLighT]

Ah ok, I get what you're saying. But isn't it pretty unlikely that person would move to the city after it already got attacked once (by Maruna/Gandharva)? When Maruna attacked the city the first time (chapter 19), he was only concerned about the target who escaped him in Leez's village. He never talks about multiple people, only the "kid with the god's name".

 

That one probably went in the city after the first red sky incidents. Before the destruction of leez village

Edited by BehindTheLighT, 09 March 2015 - 09:32 PM.

[Mizura]

Whoa, Nualie is totally right, the three cases must refer to the ones involving hoti visnu. So we can go back to the original theory that she has been killing people outside cities during her three years disappearance.

I’m not surprised that Asha killed as a kid, I suspected all along that she had been killing what could have been other name holders on Carte. I don't think she stood trial for those, however. But her different looks. are definitely surprising.