107 replies to this topic

[Seraphic Mist]

The Batoto Staff have been drafting Rules for the Comments Section. Before we make them Official (Sometime within the next few days) We would like your input on the Draft, if you feel anything is missing, confusing or needs to be changed.

 

We are not likely to ask user feedback each time rules are made/changed. Please note that Proposed rule changes will be discussed by the staff, but they are not obligated to change the rules if they feel it is best left as it is.

 

-----------

 

Comments Section Guidelines Draft:

 

1) Basic Forum Posting Rules apply.

2) If posting Plot Details, use Spoiler Tags, or take it to the Forums. Don't forget to mention "Spoiler Warning" before discussing the story - and before the Spoiler Tags.

3) For Images of any size, or Text approximately larger than ten lines, use Spoiler Tags.

4) Posts not related directly to the manga should be taken to the Respective Forums, or PM.

5) Constructive criticism is acceptable, but no flaming Comic or Other Users. Keep discussions civil.

6) The staff reserves the right to edit or delete your comment without informing you; if it violates any of the rules above.

 

Format of Spoiler Tags:

Spoiler

Plot Details Here

OR

Spoiler

ImageLinkhere.img

 

If you feel a Comment Breaks the Above Rules, post in Comment Removal Requests, Report the Content OR Contact a Moderator.

 

-------

 

Post your suggestions. And feel free to discuss with other users.

Edited by Seraphic Mist, 20 April 2014 - 07:13 AM.
Updated

[αρняσɖιтє]

I think this is perfect, but is there a way for readers to see like a banner or something whenever they visit batoto site?

1. You open up your webpage
2. Typed Batoto.net and pressed enter
3. A message popped up leaving a message to all readers and users.

Well, I think it should just have a message once & they should learn more of it. Like it pops up once on the very first time they visit with the new pop up message from Batoto. And then, if they break the guidelines for the comment section; they'll be at fault for ignoring the guidelines.

 

 

Overall, I agree with everything you and the other moderators suggested. :-)

[mhh]

I think this is perfect, but is there a way for readers to see like a banner or something whenever they visit batoto site?

• You open up your webpage
• Typed Batoto.net and pressed enter
• A message popped up leaving a message to all readers and users.

Well, I think it should just have a message once & they should learn more of it. Like it pops up once on the very first time they visit with the new pop up message from Batoto. And then, if they break the guidelines for the comment section; they'll be at fault for ignoring the guidelines.
 
 
Overall, I agree with everything you and the other moderators suggested. :-)

I'm not 100% sure what you are saying but you are worried people are going to miss the new rules, right? The plan was that we will make a post in the announcement section about it which in turn will make it show up on the homepage for a while. That should give them enough exposure.

[Shrimpeh]

sounds good

2) If posting Plot Details, use Spoiler Tags, or take it to the Forums. Don't forget to mention "Spoiler Warning" before discussing the story - and before the Spoiler Tags.

i think both for a discussing a released/latest chapter is too much,

how about something like this,

spoiler Tags for dicussing details in released chapter,

spoiler tags and Warning when discussing raws/unrelased chapters.

 

imho, it would be better if plot related discussion stay in one place, either in the forums or the comment section, and after this the forums would probably be better.

[αρняσɖιтє]

I'm not 100% sure what you are saying but you are worried people are going to miss the new rules, right? The plan was that we will make a post in the announcement section about it which in turn will make it show up on the homepage for a while. That should give them enough exposure.

 

Yes, something like that! Sorry, usually, I could show images of examples; but this computer...is so slow =_=. But you pretty much answer my concern. So, thank you!

sounds good

i think both for a discussing a released/latest chapter is too much,

how about something like this,

spoiler Tags for dicussing details in released chapter,

spoiler tags and Warning when discussing raws/unrelased chapters.

 

imho, it would be better if plot related discussion stay in one place, either in the forums or the comment section, and after this the forums would probably be better.

Either way, I believe its best to warn it whether its released or unreleased chapters, because in the end, they are both spoilers. Especially, some users believe spoilers would have some type of image in it. They wouldn't really expect actual context spoiler.

[Shrimpeh]

Either way, I believe its best to warn it whether its released or unreleased chapters, because in the end, they are both spoilers. Especially, some users believe spoilers would have some type of image in it. They wouldn't really expect actual context spoiler.

then for unreleased chapters/raw their should be an extra warning, or a double spoiler tag,

so people who discuss plot, but don't wanna get spoiled will get warned.

[Gnah]

3) For Images of any size, or Text approximately larger than five lines, use Spoiler Tags.

I don't like this part. I can understand it for pictures, because in some comic's comments section, the picturespam is kinda annoying. But I have trouble understanding why actual text above a certain amount has to be packed in spoilers. Not only does it make any actually thought-out, lenghty contribution seem unwelcome by being "banned" to the spoiler or forum section. But most importantly, it conflicts the actual function of the spoiler function which makes the second part of 2) necessary.

 

So what is going to happen concerning actual discussions is either the comment section becoming a parade of spoiler sections or those discussions "disappearing" into the forums where only very few people actually ever look and participate.

 

 

On another note, I would propose adding a little "Comment rules" link to the rules next to the "Add comment" button, so people can easily look them up even if they only start posting comments after the announcement has disappeared from the front page again.

Edited by Gnah, 16 April 2014 - 06:39 PM.

[Eien No]

I have no issue with any of those rules. I think it's great that mangas' forums might actually have some life breathed into them.

 

As for suggestions, I'm not sure if it's possible, but maybe if there's a way to "disable" commenting for the new people registering and have it so that the only way they can be enabled is by agreeing to follow the rules.

 

Something like this:

 

Spoiler

 

This way, everyone sees it at least once.

[svines85]

Spoiler

The Batoto Staff have been drafting Rules for the Comments Section. Before we make them Official (Sometime within the next few days) We would like your input on the Draft, if you feel anything is missing, confusing or needs to be changed.

 

We are not likely to ask user feedback each time rules are made/changed. Please note that Proposed rule changes will be discussed by the staff, but they are not obligated to change the rules if they feel it is best left as it is.

 

-----------

 

Comments Section Guidelines Draft:

 

1) Basic Forum Posting Rules apply.

2) If posting Plot Details, use Spoiler Tags, or take it to the Forums. Don't forget to mention "Spoiler Warning" before discussing the story - and before the Spoiler Tags.

3) For Images of any size, or Text approximately larger than five lines, use Spoiler Tags.

4) Posts not related directly to the manga should be taken to the Respective Forums, or PM.

5) Constructive criticism is acceptable, but no flaming Comic or Other Users. Keep discussions civil.

6) We will delete your comments without informing you, if it breaks one of the above rules.

 

Format of Spoiler Tags:

Spoiler

Plot Details Here

OR

Spoiler

ImageLinkhere.img

 

If you feel a Comment Breaks the Above Rules, post in Comment Removal Requests, Report the Content OR Contact a Moderator.

 

-------

 

Post your suggestions. And feel free to discuss with other users.

 

Sounds good to me. Though I'm not sure there's much that's actually different than either the way the rules have always been, or what's normally considered to be within the normal Rules of Civility and Decent Behavior in Company and Conversation..........but hey, great idea to reiterate it all and make sure everybody's on the same page. There's certainly always been a certain amount of people who seem to insist on doing in the comment sections what's really supposed to be done in the forums. 

 

 

I don't like this part. I can understand it for pictures, because in some comic's comments section, the picturespam is kinda annoying. But I have trouble understanding why actual text above a certain amount has to be packed in spoilers. Not only does it make any actually thought-out, lenghty contribution seem unwelcome by being "banned" to the spoiler or forum section. But most importantly, it conflicts the actual function of the spoiler function which makes the second part of 2) necessary.

 

So what is going to happen concerning actual discussions is either the comment section becoming a parade of spoiler sections or those discussions "disappearing" into the forums where only very few people actually ever look and participate.

 

Well, the whole point is that the comments section has always only been for "brief observations and comments"...........so yeah, posts of five lines or longer really shouldn't be there at all. That's one of the few things I'd take exception with myself in these "new" rules, but my point would be to say they shouldn't be allowed at all, whether in a spoiler tag or not. Those longer thoughts, commentaries and impressions belong in the forums, plain and simple.  

 

And I'm being a little (very little) facetious, if it's five lines or longer and in spoilers I guess it really doesn't matter.....but yeah, take it to the forums, that's where convos and long commentaries are supposed to be going on. It's just a part of the rules, it always has been. 

Edited by svines85, 16 April 2014 - 07:22 PM.

[Gnah]

Well, the whole point is that the comments section has always only been for "brief observations and comments"...........so yeah, posts of five lines or longer really shouldn't be there at all. That's one of the few things I'd take exception with myself in these "new" rules, but my point would be to say they shouldn't be allowed at all, whether in a spoiler tag or not. Those longer thoughts, commentaries and impressions belong in the forums, plain and simple.  

 

And I'm being a little (very little) facetious, if it's five lines or longer and in spoilers I guess it really doesn't matter.....but yeah, take it to the forums, that's where convos and long commentaries are supposed to be going on. It's just a part of the rules, it always has been. 

We've all seen how great that works out, right? The forums are really thriving with numerous discussions by a lot of different members.

 

It will simply not work out in the same way it would work in the comments sections. The links to the forums are always another barrier, visually and mentally, that will make numerous users not take part in discussions that they would engage in if it was in plain sight in the comments sections. Humans are like that. The comments will only become mostly pointless reaction-oneliners without improving the forum contribution by a comparable margin. If the rules have always been like that, then the rules are bad.

[DarkPrince]

I guess I'll post here what I posted in the other thread as well.
I for one am against the change in rules .-.

The thing is, the discussion forums are used only for a handful of comics. And in all the rest, the comment section is used in place of them. Even in the comics that have slightly active discussion forums --take Again!! or Noblesse for example-- there's a greater number of members using the comment section for their discussions. The only exception to this [that I know of] would be Tower of God and Kubera forums and comic sections.

What I don't get is the sudden enforcement of the new rules. I don't think I've seen a single member complain about spoilers in the comment section.
Why change what no one has a problem with?
Discussing the comic, whether done in the forums or in the comment section doesn't make a difference, does it?

If it's about what the majority wants, I'm pretty sure it would be against a change in the system.
Sure most who posted here are for the change, but how many of them use the comment section at all?

More than half the members that do use the comic section to discuss comics most likely don't even know a place like this exists. Or they don't care.
They use the comment section cause it's easier to access.

A sudden rule change will bring unnecessary problems, IMO. Worst case scenario, we lose members.

Sure if there are a huge number of complaints against spoilers in the comment section [that I'm not aware of]
Or if somehow discussion in the comment section affects the site...
Then, none of what I said applies.
But otherwise :/ I honestly think this is a bad idea :|

[Eien No]

Most of the people who "complain" about spoilers only do so silently. I don't complain personally because I avoid the comment section in its entirety nowadays. I've learned that they're riddled with spoilers(the ones with popular, ongoing mangas anyway). When I visit "less popular" ones, I will usually scroll down to read the comments because users will often say whether they liked the comic or not with vague details about its plot. I can usually get a good idea on whether I want to proceed with reading the comic or not.

 

I think that this was the original intention of the comments section and it's, honestly, more functional than for what it's being used for right now.

 

As for why the rules are being enforced now, I think that maybe it's getting out of hand?

[Daktyl]

Two things:
1. I have personally posted several comments over 5 lines long, one of which was several paragraphs (the second of which was contained within a spoiler tag for length reasons), but it was in-context with a discussion in the comments. That's something that the new rules are trying to enforce but are going to have a hard time doing so with so many comic forums deleted a while ago: Not all discussions are going to move to the forums, if you really want to force it, take away quotes and crap again... but it's not going to go over well.

This means I don't agree with the "over 5 lines" thing, but I do thing the limit should be "over 1 paragraph" (A paragraph is 5-7 sentences, for those who don't remember high school English ^.^)

 

2. Informing a person when their comment is deleted may be a hassle, but it should be required! I know the mods are busy, but that's kind of a di-- er, mean thing to do, no? I would definitely prefer to know the reason why my comment was deleted, instead of just seeing it gone. Most people will probably end up PMing a mod anyway to dispute it.

[Shrimpeh]

I guess I'll post here what I posted in the other thread as well.
I for one am against the change in rules .-.
 

they aren't really a change, the same rules almost exist,

however almost nobody follows them, and chapter discussion always take place in the comment section,

as for why, dunno.

 

i, for one, am for making things stay as they are now, while changing the rules so discussing released chapters won't break the rules, however that's just a wish.

So let's try to get the best out of this,

and maybe it will work and the members who discussed in the comment section before will discuss in the forums after this,

however i doubt it will work.

[Natureboy]

Having written comments more than 5 lines long, I realize that it can be a bit tricky to write more than that while remaining spoiler free. When I feel like writing more, I've switched to putting >5-line mini-reviews in General Discussion topic: What manga did you just finish? 

 

I suspect the most contention will be over comments sections for very popular on-going manga, especially those with chapters coming out at monthly or longer intervals.

[lihmao]

3) For Images of any size, or Text approximately larger than five lines, use Spoiler Tags.

I'm against it too, in its entirety. I don't see a problem with small images, like gifs. Actually, I like them quite a bit, since it enriches the text. About the second part, it's really strict and nonfriendly. Even if the comments section is made to do "brief" commentaries, one who wants to express theirself more crearly can easily surpass it. Or maybe answering comments made made by someone else. Ex.:

 

Person 1: Ew, I didn't like it, the characters are flat and so is the plotline.

Person 2: I agree. The art doesn't convey the feelings well either.

Person 3: No, that's not what happens... The context of the story is the period after the downfall of the Great Roman Empire. People there had different mentalities. For example, character x is really well constructed because of his family background plus his experiencies with barbaric people... (continues)

 

I don't know, that's an example. Its spoiler is minimium and probably it would have more than 5 lines. If person 3 didn't answer person 1 (or maybe 2) in the comments, one could easily pass a great manga just because some people couldn't appreciate it and there wasn't no one to say otherwise. Giving more than one said it wasn't good, one would have to have good arguments to convince someone else. And having the person didn't read the title, seeing a spoiler tag, one wouldn't open it willing. 

 

Besides, having to put spoiler in everything in the Comments Section is a hassle mainly because there is no "Spoiler button" easily identified. Only now (literally) I discored how to do it without doing it manually. 

Edited by lihmao, 16 April 2014 - 09:53 PM.

[svines85]

We've all seen how great that works out, right? The forums are really thriving with numerous discussions by a lot of different members.

 

It will simply not work out in the same way it would work in the comments sections. The links to the forums are always another barrier, visually and mentally, that will make numerous users not take part in discussions that they would engage in if it was in plain sight in the comments sections. Humans are like that. The comments will only become mostly pointless reaction-oneliners without improving the forum contribution by a comparable margin. If the rules have always been like that, then the rules are bad.

 

Ban 'em. Take their posting privileges away. I've got not one ounce of sympathy for people who won't follow rules.

 

You might not know this since (apparently) the forums have just too many "barriers" for you, but the overall traffic on Batoto is like 80% anonymous (non-members)..........so yeah, just keep saying how the people who run the site and their rules are "bad" and "wrong" and see what happens. I wouldn't blame them at all for shutting down those comment sections where they're having chronic problems with spoilers and such. Hell, most aggregate reader sites don't have 'em at all. 

[Seraphic Mist]

Thank you for the response, everyone. I'll try to answer as many issues raised here as possible. Other staff were also involved in the drafting, so I'll let them post their thoughts as well - especially to issues I don't address; because the issue raised might be because of a rule they wanted implemented. So I'll let them post as to why they wanted a Specific Rule, rather than quoting them. In the meantime, here are my thoughts:

 

Wall of Text:

Spoiler

1) Extra Features that involve Coding/Adding a Link to Rules, etc: like requested Here and 1-2 other posts are for Grumpy to decide whether it's possible or not. A lot of good suggestions have been made, so hopefully he'll get around to deciding which ones to implement.

 

2) The "Five-line spoiler rule". It will be a good thing to increase the limit to at least 7-8 lines or even an entire paragraph as has been requested. Scrapping the rule in its entirety has raised objections among staff who dislike walls of text. But We will discuss amending this rule slightly with the Staff. Hopefully, we can reach a compromise everyone's happy with.

 

You'll find that I'm Very lenient about discussions taking place in the Comments Section. However, there are people (Myself included) Who believe that it would be nice if there was, to quote someone in this thread, "Some life was breathed into the forums". There are a lot of intelligent people and intelligent discussions. Just, it would be great if they were in the forums, or even in the threads themselves.

 

Not that I'm against comments section in any way, mind you. It's my second favorite place on Batoto.. after the comics themselves. Mainly for the GIFs or for reading different PoV's of people in some issue or the other. Like Yaoi, or Morality, or Tags of a Comic...

 

One can understand that the Comments Section - in part because of convenience of being like Facebook, or having a discussion in general without having to look for the relevant thread - is a great place to post in. But we feel the Comments should be a place, where a new reader sees posts like "This manga has a good protagonist, he's a no-nonsense kind of guy, but has that emotional feel to him and goes into the backstory without deviating..." and slowly see comments evolve to "The latest chapter was awesome! Remember how he was such a jerk back then, but now..." to give a potential reader some interest. Like Eien has mentioned here.

 

Granted, this is just an ideal situation, but that's what we're trying to achieve. Or as close as we can. And being able to move more general discussion into their relevant forums is not a great compromise, but we'll try.

 

Yes, some users might be disappointed over the sudden enforcement of rules in the Comments Section. I too, am disappointed because I feel that some of the rules appear slightly restrictive, or may take away the liveliness of the Comments Section. But in the long run I admit the Forums/Comments may be smoother and more convenient for posters and Commenters alike.

 

This is why we did something not normally done and decided to post the draft in a Public Forum before enforcing it. It is Your Community, Your Forums and Your Comments Section. We'll do our best to incorporate everyone's feedback, while keeping the original content intact. The posted Rules will not be the Final Rules. Based on User Feedback or Response or Staff discretion, they will be changed, and made progressive, while trying to inform users.

 

GIFs and other Images have been discussed, a good portion of Staff feel that its best posted in Spoiler Tags - irrespective of size.

 

3) PM'ing users. Well... a lot of you know I PM users specifically when I have edited or Hidden a Comment. Some of us do. But Staff have raised an objection to PM each and every user when a Comment is hidden - such as during a Flame war, for example. I'll let them post their thoughts to this and other issues that may have been raised.

[nevernown]

Ah, I have little to add to this discussion.

I talked with people and stuff already, put ideas with people who asked...

My stance on this is pretty much the same as Eien.

 

Now, for a small tip:

Spoiler

it shouldn't be too hard for grumpy to go into the Delete-code (the code used to remove something) and have an automatically generated message there, FROM the deleter, TO the owner of the deleted post.

After all, the message system already exists.

 

Although, maybe this will give updating issues for the forum software?~

Edited by nevernown, 17 April 2014 - 03:28 PM.

[Gnah]

Thank you for your answers, Seraphic Mist. Concerning the "PM when post deleted/moved/hidden"-thing, wouldn't it be possible to just have a makro that will automatically relay the needed information with a few lines for mods to enter information/reasoning?

In the last forum I modded and edited for (~120k users, so a bit bigger than Batoto), we had that and it was really neat. It quoted the deleted post so the author could take a look at it again and see what the problem was, it entered the link to the thread we deleted it from and had a link to all rules and guidelines as well as a polite request to read and follow them. Only thing we mods ever really touched was the field left empty for giving the reason for deletion, where we could just type "spam" or "flame" if the reason was as obvious as that or enter a more detailled explanation where necessary, so there was really not that much work involved in that.

 

It's nice to see that you are taking a second look at the "5 lines" rule again. I actually agree that it would be nice if the forums were a bit more lively with intelligent discussions. Taking a look at the "General Discussion" forum I always think that it does the "discussion" part of that name injustice, as there are hardly any. Threads like "How was your day" or "What book are you reading" and all that stuff do not exactly inspire an exchange of ideas and beliefs between users. Pretty much everything that is in there would have been moved from the general discussion to our dedicated spam and smalltalk forum section on the site I last worked for. As a result we had lots of interesting discussions in our forum which actually retained our site users who had long lost all interest in what the site was actually about. So yeah, I am all for brightening up the forums with more discussions, even if it is "only" the manga subforums!

I just think that the 5-lines-rule will hardly achieve that. Like I said, I fear that only a relatively small fraction of those people who would contribute to a discussion will actually find their way into the threads.