40 replies to this topic

[Mizura]

We've gotten a lot of new information on this in the past few chapters, so to more properly discuss it, I've made a compilation of all mentioned instances of the Power of the Name, as well as any additional information that might be useful to know. We can start discussing theories from scratch.

 

The categories can be a bit of a mess because there's way too much overlap. Sorry about that. >_< This isn't meant, by the way, to be an exhaustive reference about all the facts and characters, just stuff that may give an idea as to what's going on.

 

I. Explicit mentions of Names

 

Some mentions are trivial, but can't hurt.

 

Name origins and mechanisms

Ch. 84: Agni notes 'Gods are structured i completely different ways to humans or Sura. Their body and soul cannot be separated. And their power, memory and Name, among others, all form one concept.' He then adds 'The Name is important. The Names of Gods are special.' Brilith asks about humans with a God's name, but Agni says that it doesn't cause any problems.

Ch. 99: Asha says that the proper name of the clan of Chaos can't be used 'Because the Name is forbidden to use.' She then asks Ran if he's heard of the 'Power of the Name'. She explains: 

- 'There are Names which hold a special king of power... and they were given preferentially to the first living creatures of the Universe. According to the Names they received, the first beings were split into two groups: Those who are strong, but live only once, and Those who are weak, but can resurrect themselves an infinite number of times. The Primeval Gods christened them, respectively, Nastika and Astika.' - Ran notes at this point that his introductory theology course said to never use the term Astika.

- 'The one who named them was Primeval God Visnu. Visnu already had a name which was immortal without regard to the existence of the Universe. He had no interest in keeping other Names which would give power in the new world. And so, as new lives were born, he gave each of them a Name... alternating between the Names of Nastika and Astika. Thus it came to be that when the new Universe was complete, the most powerful Names were in the possession of the new-borns.'

- 'There are four Primeval Gods. All four had the right to govern the Power of the Names, but not all four shared the same vision. Brahma and Shiva, like VIsnu, possessed no desire for the Names and their Power... but Kali was different. Perhaps she did not like her creations overstepping her powers... or perhaps she had other reasons. Whatever they were, she chose to take possession of the remaining Names of Nastika. But because all the good Names had already been given out, only the forbidden Names remained... those with flaws or elements of danger. Kali took them all, and left Visnu's side.'

The above knowledge is apparently heresy.

 

Kubera Leez

Ch. 2: Leez remembers her mother telling her not to tell her name to outsiders, because her name is 'special.'

Ch. 3: Asha tells Leez: 'But since you have the Name... I will protect you...'

Ch. 5: Gandharva asks Maruna about why he didn't manage to kill the 'Human with a god's name.'

Ch. 8: Agni's insight. Future Leez says that she fights only to protect this Name. (not quoting it in full since we get a better translation later)

Ch. 19: Asha tells Leez to keep a secret about her Name and what happened because of her Name. Leez is confused about this.

Ch. 31: God Kubera says that it is a disappointment that the Power of the Name was wasted like this.

Ch. 34: God Kubera's insight: Leez thinks 'If only my father had not given me your Name.'

Ch. 41: Asha tells Leez that everything is because she has the Name of a God. According to Anna, someone told Leez' father to name her Kubera and raise her under the name for 15 years, as the child would then grow up to be 'happier than anyone.' Leez thinks to herself that it was all a lie.

Ch. 71: Sagara tells Brilith that 'The Name of the human we're trying to find is 'Kubera''.

Ch. 88: God Kubera tells Leez 'I have no name. Do not take this lightly. What I have just told you is of grave importance.' When Leez tries to name him, he says 'Giving me a Name is no such simple matter.'  As he leaves, he says 'When we meet again, I hope to see you stronger... worthy of the Power of the Name.'

Ch. 2-49: Leez asks about the time God Kubera tells her to grow stronger and worthy of the Power of the Name.

Ch. 2-50: Leez tells God Kubera that she'll grow strong enough to deserve the Power of the Name or whatever it is.

Ch. 2-66: Extension of Agni's first insight of Leez. 'Still, I choose to fight on... because I have a duty to protect this Name until the end. Does it disappoint you...? That I do not seek to save the lives of others?'

 

Yuta, Maruna and Kalavinka

Ch. 48: Yuta tells Asha that he can't tell her his name.

Ch. 74: Before the Garuda siblings are separated, Maruna says 'Well, it can't be helped if we're to hide the Power of the Name. It's only a temporary thing.'

Ch. 82: Kalavinka tells Kasak 'Well... I don't really know if this is my fault, but apparently it's because of the 'Power of the Name.' 'The fate of my entire clan hangs on this... no just mine.' 

Ch. 91: Asha says, of Sura that nullify magic: 'There is very little information to be found in literature, and their recorded appearances in the human realm number less than a handful. It is forbidden even to utter the Name. They are instead known as the 'Clan of Chaos.' 

Ch. 2-7: Riche talks about the eigth and unknown clan of Sura, created of Chaos who cannot be named. This knowledge is apparently heresy.

Ch. 2-73: Maruna has a flashback. 'It is not ___. It is one of the other two. Jatayu? Kalavinka? You think they are true Names? Do not trust ____. You are being deceived. Garuda's only son now is ____. If you fail, there will be no ___.' Yuta says they were separated in the first place 'Because of the Power of the Name.'

Ch. 2-75: After Yuta develops, Maruna asks Yuta 'Jatayu, have you started to doubt me, because of the Power of the Name?' and 'At the very least, I know that you are hiding your true Name from me. I suspected nothing when I was young. They said you were my brother, and like a fool, I believed them.' Yuta is puzzled by the brother comment. Yuta says 'I told you, we should not be together. Those that are after the Power of the Name-' but Maruna tells him 'If you do not come with me... eventually, those far worse than me will come for you. They care nothing for your life. Their interest lies only in the Name.' Yuta asks if he's talking about the Gods, the Asura clan, or the Ananta clan. Maruna says 'No, none of them. It is better for you not to know.' Apparently it's foe they can't defeat together.

Ch. 2-78: Hura notes to Maruna 'So your clan's Name is with your brother, huh?'

 

Ananta clan

Ch. 2-51: Sagara notes 'From the very beginning, he had a Name destined to be the strongest, and a Sura form greater than any could imagine... He was blessed with power none could surpass, but lacked the ambition to make use of it. He let himself be deceived and exploited by many, and in the end, he even trusted the God who was after his life...' Ananta is shown saying: 'They'll let everyone else live if I pay the price? Don't worry. He'll keep his promise. I'm sure of it. I told you. He's my friend.' After confronting God Kubera and learning that he can regenerate again, Sagara tells all forces to surround Kalibloom and not let anyone escape.

Ch. 2-55: In D500, the Gods attack the Ananta clan. The Kinnara clan is 'busy dealing with internal trouble over the Power of the Name.' 

 

God Kubera

Ch. 84: Agni congratulates God Kubera for killing 'the one who was destined to be the strongest from the beginning'. He does note the Primeval Gods didn't seem ecstatic. God Kubera notes 'I have committed a terrible wrong. Bent upon the conquest before my eyes, I overlooked the importance of the 'Power of the Name.' Soon enough... I will no longer have a place in the world of the Gods.' 

Ch. 87: God Kubera is seen talking to someone, who notes 'Wait, you're not Kubera anymore.' He then says 'Is it not better to try some cunning or deceit? Like when you tricked Ananta?' God Kubera answers 'I have no wish to repay wrong with wrong.' The other person replies 'Your opponent already knows how this battle will end... and only fools fight battles they are destined to lose.' Leez muses whether he's letting her live because there is some benefit to him, and he replies 'I don't know. I am not Visnu.'

 

Others

Ch. 82: Agni asks Gandharva why he's searching for the 'Power of the Name.'

Ch. 2-68: In Gandharva's flashback, he thinks: 'If I hadn't ever received the Name 'Gandharva'...' Visnu replies 'Then Menaka would be Gandharva's, and not yours.' He then adds 'There is no such thing as a perfect Name. Gandharva. Your Name is a powerful one, and it will mean much suffering. But it will also bring you... wondrous love, remarkable happiness, and friendship that can transcend races.'

 

II. Information on historical events

 

This section contains major historical information that may be linked to the Name business. I'm only noting major historical events, not the circumstances of individual characters.

 

D0-ish

Ch. 6: Around D0, the humans side with the Gods, and severed their ties to the Sura. In N0, the ties with the Gods were 'also' all but broken. From then on, humans can only borrow power from 11 Gods. Summoning becomes very dangerous.

Ch. 2-27: Varuna sighted Gandharva near planet Gresvan in D1. Gresvan is a planet that got destroyed. This was 'When humans renounced the Sura, nearly a thousand years ago. Gresvan was one of the planets that got attacked in retaliation before barriers were created.'

Ch. 2-68: Agni blames Gandharva for the destruction of many stars, including Gresvan. 

 

D500

Ch. 2-55: In D500, the Gods attack the Ananta clan. The Garuda and Yaksha clans are fighting the Asura clan, preventing it from coming to the aid of the Ananta clan. The Kinnara clan is 'busy dealing with internal trouble over the Power of the Name.' The messenger says they have two options: 'Either we give up Ananta... or we go to rescue him, knowing full well that many of our number will die in the attempt.' The Gandharva clan stayed out at Menaka's insistence. When Manasvin talks, we see the silhouettes of Varuna, Indra and God Kubera.

 

N0

Ch. 38: Visnu and Shiva disappeared in N0, after Visnu separated the races into different realms.

Ch. 60: In N0, the Cataclysm occurred. Planets were being destroyed every day. We see what appears to be a dragon Nastika. The strongest case of emotional resonation in all of history pit humans against Halfs (races shown: Gandharva, Garuda, Yaksha, Asura, Kinnara, Vritra).

 

N5

Ch. 2-59: Gandharva tells Shakuntala that Visnu told him: 'I know your clan is weak against the toxicity of the Sura realm. But there's no other way, for now... you'll have to use your powers to keep the area purified. It won't be long. I'll tell the other Gods. Until an ocean is created in the Sura realm... please.' Some Gandharva Sura see a Taraka Sura, but they have never seen one in such a form. Once says the Taraka clan Sura are weak, but both get killed by said Taraka Sura. Many more come to attack.

Ch. 2-60: In N5, Gandharva tried to create an ocean. Remembering the past, Gandharva takes Sura form.

We also learn from various places that Carte was destroyed in N5 and that Asha and Rao took the last transport from Carte to Willarv then, after someone used his life to summon the God of Wind.

N5 is also the year Jibril dies and Brilith summons Agni.

 

Others

Ch. 2-12: 'The Goddess Kali, who had jurisdiction over the attribute of Chaos, disappeared a long time ago. Since she was the only divinity who had a Chaos attribute, there was no one to take her place. In the end, the birth attribute 'Chaos' was transformed to 'Nil'. It left an empty space, so to speak. Babies with empty attributes are often stillborn. If someone is a triple nil, a live birth is nothing short of a miracle.'

Ch. 2-58: Sagara says Menaka died in a similar way to Teo. Gandharva had transcendentals sealed by Taraka, and so has Sagara. The current Taraka, however, is still alive.

 

III. Information that may give a clue about various mechanisms

 

Kubera Leez

Ch. 33: Leez notes that she did think she was getting stronger recently...

Ch. 2-22: Ananta appears in Leez' dream. He says 'She will lose... once again...? After all that suffering, she still hasn't learned her lesson... poor thing. Personally, I do not care any longer... But I cannot just observe... I pity her too much.' Leez wakes up to see Asha strangling her.

Ch. 2-29: Leez' lifespan ends when she's in her twenties.

Ch. 2-33: Reflection possibly linked to Leez?

Ch. 2-37: Leez has 0 Divine Affinity.

Ch. 2-38: Leez has a transcendental value of 4240 (Kasak's transcendental value is over 10,000. Riche's machine in ch.2-4 read 17860).

Ch. 2-49 : God Kubera said, "If you take after him in your tendency to trust... It is all too obvious what choice you will make."

Ch. 2-53: Leez' fast healing has been nullified by the Sword of Re.

Ch. 2-71: A person is controlling Leez.

Ch. 2-72: The person controlling Leez thinks: 'Humans are known to have less vigor than Gods or Sura. But that's not entirely true. If it's the case that the happier you are, the faster your vigor recovers... it means technically, depending on your mindset, you vigor could be infinite.'

 

Yuta

Ch. 46: The spell targeting the Half near Yuta stopped halfway.

Ch. 54: Shuri tells Yuta about the Way of the King, and says it is the path he must walk.

Ch. 55: Agwen tries to cast Hoti Brahma on Yuta, but it fails.

Ch. 56: Taraka tells Yuta that he is her successor. Shuri tells Yuta again to follow the ways of a true King.

Ch. 57: Sagara asks God Kubera about Maruna, and he replies that he promised to help him find what he wants. Sagara notes 'That's interesting. That you would promise him that, when it's so obvious that he wants to help the Garuda clan...'

Ch. 61: Visnu tells Kasak that Yuta may be his enemy.

Ch. 88: Visnu's earrings are broken. Yuta wonders 'Mother, how are you able to destroy even a god-level item made by Primeval God Visnu?'

Ch. 89: When asked about the earrings, Asha notes that she's never seen a God-level item disintegrate on its own, since they're supposed to regenerate. Yuta asks her if it has to do with Visnu's disappearance. Asha says it's possible, since he hasn't been seen since the Cataclysm. However, God-level items remain unaffected in the gap between a God's death and his resurrection. And if the God has disappeared from existence altogether, the items should disappear with him.

Ch. 93: Taraka tells Yuta that the emotions he feel for others aren't friendship or love. Apparently Shuri left with Visnu.

Ch. 96: Kali tells Yuta that he is her masterpiece, and she cannot lose him like this.

Ch. 97: Garuda expresses his gratitude to Kali for being granted leave to depart, though he notes that she is somewhere his voice won't reach. 

Ch. 2-48: Yuta notes to Riagara: 'For the rest of you, hunting is optional. You hunt only to replenish their vigor. Even if you choose not to hunt, you don't starve to death.' Riagara asks if by that, he means that if he doesn't hunt, he'll die?

Ch. 2-74: Kasak shows up with Chaos sura clinging to him. He then says he must kill Yuta before he develops.

Ch. 2-77: Despite Maruna's attack, Yuta doesn't have a scratch on him.

 

Other Chaos-related information

Ch. 1: Kaz Lehn (triple-nil) could recover from being beat up by Leez.

Ch. 42: Kali made the Sword of Re to kill Shiva (didn't work though).

Ch. 91: In Taraka's presence, Ran's Hoti Varuna stops working, though the raft made by Asha is still there.

Ch. 2-23: 'Insight? Many Gods have the ability of Insight, not just Kali... Although Visnu and Kali did not have ordinary insight. They...'

Ch. 2-57: Teo has a god-level item Sagara hasn't heard about. She is then shocked that Teo can use silent Chaos magic, since Chaos-attribute magic should have disappeared along with Kali. She also 'remembers the Cataclysm.'

 

God Kubera

Ch. 85: Sagara says 'His' power remains unchanged. The target in Atera is still alive.'

Ch. 2-21: God Kubera is shown in Asha's past. He's wearing the Golden Knight and wielding a spear, which he uses to slash at a woman.

Ch. 2-25: Shess tells God Kubera 'My mother knows this plan is not what you truly desire. So please... don't abandon yourself like this.'

Ch. 2-41: God Kubera says it doesn't matter if he loses his regenerative abilities because of the Sword of Re, because 'Either way, I am going to disappear soon enough...'

Ch. 2-49: God Kubera thinks 'I never hoped to win this war. Hence, I will have no regrets.'

Ch. 2-52: Sagara says 'From what I saw in the Chaos Temple, we have no time to waste.' Then says 'There is no cause to doubt his loyalty. What I saw in the Temple of Chaos was true, but it is also true that he is still on my side.' She adds 'And I guess on one hand... I felt pity for her.'

Ch. 2-61: Siera tells Claude that the items held by the temple 'aren't like other God-level items. We have to be ready to present them to him at any time, if he comes to get them. Whenever that may be...'

 

Ananta clan

Ch. 51: Ananta was the strongest Nastika. Sagara mourns Ananta's death. Vasuki turns into female form to allow Manasvin to become King instead.

Ch. 55: After N0, the Ananta clan is in an uproar because Sagara became King after Manasvin's disappearance. They say the stronger the King, the stronger the Clan, and tell Sagara to step off the throne whenever she is ready.

Ch. 77: Sagara thinks 'I've just realized that even if the Gods attack the Sura realm in retaliation, the Anantas there mean nothing to me.' She then thinks of Ananta facing what appears to be the Taraka army, and blames the Ananta clan since 'Already they have forgotten their devoted ruler, and far from demanding vengeance, they cling to useless rules and principles.' Finally, thinking of Vasuki, she thinks 'But you'll be with Taksaka. So you'll be safe even if the Gods attack.'

Ch. 80: Riagara says that even the Primeval Gods choose not to side with the Gods.

Ch. 2-9: Sagara says she doesn't have the power to destroy Rindhallow right now, but promises to raze it to the ground before Eloth.

Ch. 2-41: God Kubera tells Sagara 'This is a matter of survival for some, but not for you. It would have been better for you to stay in the Sura realm.' Sagara calls him the 'Main player in this war.'

Ch. 2-50: Sagara says of God Kubera: 'In that case, it would mean he abandons Ananta for the second time...'

 

Asha

Ch. 95: Noting the presence of the Taraka sura, Asha says Hoti Brahma won't be enough. She uses Hoti Visnu.

Ch. 2-7: Asha has 29 counts of involuntary homicide by magical accident.

Ch. 2-10: Visnu tells Asha: 'You will now be able to borrow my strength for your magic. But do not forget. Strictly speaking, I do not exist here in the form of a God... and thus the spell which taps my magic will be very unstable...'

Ch. 2-20: Claude notes that Asha has 29 cases of 'involuntary homicide by magical accident', but says there are probably more.

 

Visnu

Ch. 53: Sagara describes emotional resonation. Hanuman notes that Shuri and Visnu are no longer of that world, and that Garuda is in a coma. She tells Gandharva to make a decision befitting a King.

Ch. 2-2: Agni wonders how much Visnu has seen, and notes that Visnu should have known that someday, one of them would choose to break his rules. So Visnu can't be angry. He reveals himself the next chapter.

Ch. 2-11: Kasak tells Agni that Visnu told him enough, so he knows that Agni is violating the rules. 'Since the Cataclysm, Gods are not permitted to be openly active in the human realm. A God must endeavor to keep his presence hidden from every human, excluding his summoner.' There are reasons behind this.

 

Others

Ch. 29: After destroying a bunch of villages, Gandharva and Maruna have a few targets left: Atera, Eloth and Rindhallow. (i.e.: multiple targets involved?). 

Ch. 36: Manasvin notes that Varuna is the God who has killed the most Sura, so would never create an ocean for the Gandharva clan. Sagara tells Manasvin to give up trying to convince Gandharva, and to try for Airavata instead.

Ch. 68: Gandharva tells Shess: 'If one of Airavata's closest associates has joined Sagara, there's no question about the rest of your clan.'

Ch. 84: Agni notes that a god-level item is part of a God, so he can merge it and separate it at will. 

Ch. 99: Asha tells Ran that the Water Channel is a god-level item created by Primeval God Brahma, so it should not collapse until a force equivalent to Brahma's power acted on it.

Ch. 2-2: Airi had amnesia during the Cataclysm. We see that in D995 (which is also the year Rao won the Fighter Tournament), Taksaka came and was hanging around Kasak and Agwen. Agwen forgot about this incident too.

Ch. 2-67: Sagara says most of Gandharva's unique transcendentals should be sealed, and the moment after, he uses one that should have been sealed.

Ch. 2-68: Agni asks if Gandharva knows why 'Nastika don't have an afterlife', but stops.

Ch. 2-70: Agni rushes back to Atera, but the only person who went to see Brilith is Agwen.

 

IV. Other information from the side novel ('The finite')

 

The universe

There were previous universes. Taksaka notes that this implies that Visnu either couldn't or didn't choose to prevent their destruction. Visnu stayed silent at that. In the previous Universe, Visnu manipulated time too much and lost his body as a result.

There can be 'mistakes' in the Universe, and Shiva seems to be in charge of eliminating them. This was the case of the Destruction dragon of this Universe (this implies by the way, that the roles we see in each Universe is repeated).

Near the beginning of the Universe, Visnu offered to have Brahma save the Dragon clan from becoming the first extinct by further enforcing their clan characteristic (thus making them mostly emotionless) and forcing all of them into male-only form. This change was only possible because it was the beginning of the Universe. The dragons accepted. (this is basically an example of their governing Names at work)

 

Visnu

Visnu can see the consequences of all choices.

Visnu told Utpala that she'd die a horrible death the moment he named her. This implies that he either planned her death at the beginning of the Universe (because he was later responsible for it D: ), or perhaps it is a destiny attached to her Name?

After humans sided with Gods, Visnu used his power to protect inhabited from being outright destroyed by Sura. However, his powers didn't protect anything living on said planets, so he asked Brahma to create the barriers for the humans.

 

Garuda clan

By the time of the Novel (which dates to when Kasak's parents met), the Garuda clan was in a pretty bad situation: the upper ranks were hollowed out, so there was a big gap in power between #1 Garuda and #2 Vinata. According to Ravana, #2 of the Asura clan, the Garuda clan would be 'finished' if Garuda died. He also taunted Vinata for how her husband "fell in love with another woman and brought a child of Chaos." He also openly mused on which one is 'real' and which one is 'fake.'

 

Additional factoid from the blog: all Primeval Gods have 2 attributes, though they are only commonly known by one.

 

--

that_was_ridiculously_long.jpg

 

I'll wait a few hours so I can post theories later in a separate post. The rest of you can post your own theories in the meantime, or maybe add moments you think were important that I've missed.

Edited by Mizura, 05 March 2014 - 02:05 AM.

[Mizura]

Theories! I think we're missing way too big chunks of information to theorize on the entire history of events, so I'll post bits of theory instead.

 

1. Theory on the Power of the Name

 

Here's what I think is going on: a mechanism has appeared that gave multiple parties the ability to mess with/take control of Names and their powers. This was used, among others, by the Gods to attack the Sura clans, starting from the clan Names. I think it's now possible to separate a being from his Name and take it for your own use, so this may have devolved into an arm's race where multiple parties are trying to get their hands on the most powerful Names. It isn't That easy of course, you still have to defeat the person wielding the Name, which is why Ananta was defeated through trickery in the end rather than through brute force. On the other hand, you can now take a Name and hide is somewhere separate, a bit like Lichs with their phylactery (if you don't know what that is, think Voldemort from Harry Potter and horcruxes), which is probably what's been done to God Kubera's Name and some clan Names. There may be a further mechanism that allows one to more generally alter the rules governing the Names, but perhaps there is a delay to each usage, and this was used in D0 then in N0 (maybe D500 as well).

 

But the clincher is that even the Primeval Gods are not immune to this mechanism, or at least the backlash involved is severely straining their ability to keep the Universe in one piece. There are several things that support this:

- In N0, planets were being destroyed left and right, and yet the side novel states that Visnu's powers are supposed to protect the planets.

- Visnu told Asha in N5 that 'Strictly speaking, I do not exist here in the form of a God'

- Visnu's earrings broke in the Water Channels

- Gandharva was able to take Sura form in the human realm, which should have been made impossible because of Visnu's powers.

Basically, things are breaking apart. Also, control over this mechanism may not be perfect, and may have resulted in all sorts of nasty unintended consequences, which in my opinion is why N0 was such a cosmic mess.

 

Now, it seems the Primeval Gods' ability to 'govern' the Names isn't absolute. They can tweak them to a certain degree. However, Names are probably stand-alone objects that do their own thing. Primeval Gods can't change their nature or prevent them from carrying out their specified destiny, thus Visnu's comment to Gandharva that 'There is no such thing as a perfect Name'. We still don't know what the true nature of the Names is, basically (where did they come from? And what about the Primeval Gods? What are they for?). But there are a few suspicious points I think we should pay attention to:

- The reason for the existence of the Universe. We know from the finite that there were past Universes, and Visnu was either unable to prevent their destruction or chose not to. I don't know what motivates the Primeval Gods, but Visnu in any case seems instinctively driven to preserve a Universe as long as he can using whatever means possible. Perhaps they had been trying over and over to create a Universe that would last and won't be destroyed inside out, hence why they did not give out Names 'with flaws or elements of danger'. The reason Nastika and Astika were created the way they were may be tied to this.

- Why the Gods want to kill the Nastika in the first place, which I suspect is tied with Agni's comment to Gandharva: 'Do you know why Nastika don't have an afterlife?'

- Why humans were taught not to use the word Astika. Perhaps 'Astika' was changed (is it considered a Name?). Or perhaps it had hidden implications that the Gods didn't like from the start.

- Anything involving Sura Kings. The clan Names are probably tied to Sura Kings, which in turn are tied to emotional resonation. There are several suspicious issues here. Why did such a severe case of emotional resonation occur in N0? How did Sagara become Sura King?

 

In any case, the appearance of the mechanism has given way to a form of free-for-all, which for now is only kept more or less in check because of the rules Visnu imposed before leaving. The most important Names were hidden in the human realm, and the rules there were changed to prevent Nastika and Gods to do whatever they want there, but it seems these rules won't be obeyed for very long. But now, several Sura clans are desperate to get their hands on certain Names because they are at a risk of extinction otherwise. Some may be targeting them for personal reasons. But severe abuse could lead to the very balance of the Universe to be disrupted, which is what Visnu is trying to prevent.

 

2. Theories on historic events

 

D0-ish

The visible events started in my opinion not in D500, but at least in D0, when the humans 'severed their ties to Sura' and sided with the Gods. This implies a change in the rules, but in the finite, we learned that rules shouldn't be messed with late in the Universe. The side novel insisted that the only reason Brahma could change the rules involving the Dragons was because it was 'still the beginning of the Universe.' So, the D0 events were possible either because the mechanism I noted already came into existence, or on the contrary, this change in the rules introduced an 'error' that was subsequently exploited. I think it may be the former, since Visnu and Brahma had to create protective measures for the humans After all this occurred. If they'd given their approval beforehand, wouldn't they have put the protective measures in place beforehand? Of course, the true source of the conflict probably dates back much further, I'm just saying D0 is the first concrete event we've been shown so far.

 

By the way, the events of D0 may have occurred over several years. The person with Teo said that humans sided with the Gods 'nearly' a thousand years ago. Maybe it's like what's happening right now: a multitude of events occurred one after another.

 

D500

Sagara's flashback in Ch. 77 shows Ananta facing the Taraka army, but we know that it was the Gods who attacked in D500. Furthermore, we know that Garuda later had a child with Kali. God Kubera also later regretted his actions. So I believe D500 was the result of a huge conspiracy against the Ananta clan:

• Kali made a hidden deal with Garuda: in exchange for getting rid of his clan's biggest enemy, Garuda will have a child with her. This deal was probably done in secret, since in the novel, Ravana claimed that Garuda 'fell in love with another woman.' The Garuda clan would not attack the Ananta clan directly, but instead, it allied with the Yaksha clan to prevent its natural allies, the Asura clan, from interfering. Garuda made this desperate deal because in the novel, it is revealed that the Garuda clan was in a critical situation, with its upper ranks hollowed out: the clan would be finished if Garuda died, and Kali may just have spoiled a few events about N0 to Garuda. Garuda only completed his end of the deal much later, thus avoiding suspicion from the other clans.

• Kali then made a deal with the Gods. The Gods and the Taraka army would attack the Ananta clan at the same time. I think this attack already involved the use of the Power of the Name or the likes, however, because the Taraka clan is supposed to be weak (though maybe it was stronger when Kali was around). We also saw from the confrontation between Maruna and Yuta that there are ways to deal with Taraka Sura: non-Nastika aren't forced into human form, and you just have to eat their eyes to disable their ability. This deal involved at least 3 major Gods, as shown in Manasvin's thoughts in Ch. 2-55: Indra, Varuna and God Kubera. This is probably also what Sagara referred to when she and Manasvin tried to form an alliance with Gandharva at first, and said that Varuna was the God who killed the most Sura.

• Kali also specifically made a side deal with God Kubera, as he was the one God whom Ananta considered to be a friend. Whatever mechanism she taught him allowed God Kubera to kill Ananta, but then he regretted it when he realized that Kali actually tricked him. I wonder if God Kubera really went through with it though. Perhaps at the last moment he decided to preserve Ananta's essence, hence why Ananta could appear in Leez' dream despite the fact that Nastika don't have an afterlife. If Sagara is aware of this, perhaps she's trying to restore Ananta somehow, which may be why she sides with God Kubera for now.

Someone else once pointed out that perhaps, knowledge of the Taraka clan is heresy Precisely because of the past alliance between the Gods and the Taraka clan. It was something so hideous that the Gods didn't want the humans to know. However, after Ananta gave himself up, the Gods kept their promise of leaving the rest of the clan alone. They would only attack it again if they interfered in the Name business further. Perhaps that's why the rest of the Ananta clan didn't support Sagara's plans, fearing retaliation, but also because meddling with the Name business could be highly disruptive to the balance of the Universe (Sagara doesn't give a damn though). This is also why God Kubera said that Sagara's survival isn't at stake over at the Sura realm, because the Gods kept their promise to leave them alone.

 

N0

In N0, the rules were forcefully altered in perhaps a similar way as D0. It's unclear who initiated it, and perhaps no-one did in particular and it was just a now broken mechanism acting up. It had several major effects though:

- Visnu's powers started to fail, as evidenced by the destruction of planets. In the end, Visnu and Shiva had to leave.

- I suspect it messed with Sura clan Names in general. I always found it very suspicious why (as per emotional resonation) all the Kings would become angry at the same time. It makes no sense! Sure, Some kings could become outraged and go berserk, but not all. Vritra doesn't seem to care about governance, for one, so he has no reason to become that much angrier than usual. Shuri taught Yuta self-control, there's no reason for her to lose control herself. The Kinnara clan is a bunch of neutral pacifists. Yet Halfs from all these clans went berserk. I suspect the Kings did Not go berserk and it was instead something messing with the clan Names that caused all that.

- The ties between humans and Gods was nearly broken. A strange part about this is: if Gods were responsible for this mess, why would they do something that would so harm humans, whom they genuinely appeared to want to protect (Chandra even answered a summons during the war)? Either they Weren't responsible, or the mechanism had unintended consequences, or perhaps the Gods are divided into several camps, just like the Sura.

Anyway, all parties realized what a cosmic mess things had become, which is why the Gods didn't complain too much when Visnu sent them to the Gods' realm.

 

3. Yuta and Chaos

 

We know for sure that Kali is involved in this somehow, the question now is why she made Yuta and left. After she left, the Chaos attribute disappeared, but we see clear evidence that the influence of Chaos is growing again:

- In N5, the Taraka Sura that attacked the Gandharva clan was in a shape never seen before, and appeared much stronger than normal.

- Brahma's Water Channel broke down. We were led to believe that it was due to Asha's Hoti Visnu, and maybe that was it, but maybe it was actually due to the influence of Chaos? Maybe?

- As evidenced by Teo, Chaos silent magic exists again. Something also seems to be going on with Kaz (also a triple nil), who could survive Leez' beatings.

- Kasak had no problems going from Mistyshore to Atera, but encountered issues going from Atera to Kalibloom. Right after that, he said he had to kill Yuta.

 

As for Yuta, he isn't an ordinary Taraka Sura:

- He seems able to even nullify magic from the Primeval Gods, which Taraka couldn't do.

- I suspect Any magic or transcendental that gets too close to him gets nullified automatically. That's why the Half near him at the start wasn't killed, and why Maruna's attack did nothing to him. Perhaps he doesn't realize it yet. For this reason, Yuta can -only- be killed through physical means. If he can also nullify a Nastika's Sura form (though it's unclear why he didn't do so with Gandharva -too busy being scared? Unable to because of other reason?), then considering how he's a match against most Rakshasa of higher stage than him, he's going to be a force to be reckoned with (moreso when he develops further).

- At the same time, like other Taraka Sura, he favors stronger prey, but at the same time, he Must eat to survive.

- And yet, Shuri taught him the 'Way of the King' for some reason, while Taraka called him her successor.

- Judging from Kasak's comment, perhaps the rest of the Taraka clan gained a power-up when their King, Yuta, developed to 3rd stage.

- Also suspicious: Maruna's thoughts that Jatayu isn't really his brother.

- By the way, one of his attributes is still unknown. He's Sky / Chaos + Light / ???. Since Primeval Gods have 2 attributes, he must have inherited the second from his mother as well, but it's unclear what it is.

 

That's Kali's creation: a being who is very strong to begin with, who can only be killed through physical means, who favors strong prey and who must eat to survive. As he grows stronger, so does the rest of the Taraka clan. The Taraka clan also became stronger in the meantime. I suspect that Kali may have made a race that can absorb the Power of the Name of stronger prey, so after using the Gods in D500 to make an opportunity to eat a bunch of Ananta Sura, the Taraka clan may have absorbed a bunch of strong Names and become stronger. Yuta may find himself in a similar position: the stronger the prey he eats, the stronger he becomes, probably?

 

If that's true, then the huge question is why the others let such a dangerous creature live, instead of killing him immediately. As with Leez, there must be some benefit to letting him survive. Perhaps things would have been different if he didn't choose Chaos (unfortunately for Kasak, he chose Chaos indeed, or at least he chose Leez). Or perhaps, if he can control himself, he can keep the rest of his clan in check. Most probably though, Visnu must have foreseen some other role for him. It's unclear what it is for now.

 

I don't think the Garuda clan Name is hidden with Yuta by the way. I think it's Actually hidden with Kalavinka, which is why she's so desperate not to be found. I also wonder if there's more to Maruna than meets the eyes. He might be born around D0, so what if he's the Sura equivalent of Leez there? Hmm... Of course, Maruna probably doesn't know a thing, just like how Maruna and Kasak seem to know things about Yuta that even Yuta himself doesn't.

 

4. Kubera Leez

 

And of course there's poor little Leez. Here is a bunch of things I theorize about her:

- Although there are a bunch of Names involved, God Kubera's Name may be more 'special' than others. That's why Sagara referred to God Kubera as the 'main player in this war.'

- I suspect that his Name was actually sealed within multiple targets. That's why the Sura are going around, blowing up a whole bunch of locations. After attacking Atera, Sagara noted that 'his' power remains unchanged, which 'proved' that the target in Atera was still alive. The sentence doesn't imply that the target may have died, but was simply the wrong one.

- Not only that, I suspect Asha was going around killing potential targets as well! Or on the contrary, she tried to save them, but was too late and got saddled with the blame.

- Basically, as each target is killed, the remaining ones (including God Kubera himself) may be getting stronger. That may be why Leez noted in ch. 33 that she had been getting stronger.

 

Once all the targets are killed, perhaps God Kubera recovers his full power. It's unclear how this benefits Sagara and co. I don't think he'll die afterwards, since he promised to help Gandharva and Maruna After his goals were accomplished. I can think of a few possibilities:

- Either there was a special mechanism in his Name that could allow Sagara to attack the Gods, thus accomplishing her 'revenge.'

- Or perhaps his Name was used to seal Ananta's Name. Perhaps it can then still be released.

- Or the Sura want to take over his Name afterwards for whatever reasons.

 

Personally, I always suspected that God Kubera's Name was used to seal Ananta's somehow. That is why his Name is a huge deal, and this may have been further reinforced by the fact that Ananta appeared in Leez' dream (I suspected something to do with Ananta's Name way before though. Both Names were the pinacles of the Earth element, so maybe something could occur with the two Names, though this theory may be wrong).

 

Note that Ananta was described as having the Name that was 'destined to be the strongest.' The use of 'destined' always sounded funny to me. Why isn't he just the strongest, period? Also, in the side novel, it turned out that female-form Vritra could also be a contender for strongest (but they never fought so it was never confirmed).

 

I think that sooner or later, Leez will actually be unlocking Ananta's Name, and She will be the one to become the strongest being in the Universe. She'd be holding the strongest Name (also a God's Name), be able to negate regeneration, be able to resurrect infinitely thanks to the bracelet, and on top of that, her structure as a human grants her infinite vigor. This is why, in Agni's insights, she appears to be in the Sura realm and facing what's clearly a gathering of Ananta, Garuda and other species of Sura. Also, in chapter 2-33, Yuta saw a certain reflection. It seems plant-like, but there's also a part that appears to be a tail. Does Leez gain a Sura form that looks like a combination of a snake and plants?

 

Perhaps God Kubera is sure that like Rao, Leez will make the self-sacrificing choice (whatever it is). But it turns out that Leez isn't that nice after all, and what... goes on a path of mass-genocide of the likes? Which is why in one of the future scenes, she tells God Kubera that he didn't see what's truly important, or he'd never have given her the choice of living or not. Maybe she decides to oppose both the Gods and the Sura, and maybe join the whole mess of gathering Names (or maybe not, maybe she doesn't even need to). At this point, the Sura finally realize that their conspiring resulted in the creation of the strongest foe they've faced to date, a foe with the strongest Name and infinite vigor. Desperate, they all come together to try to kill Leez. Leez, on the other hand, is bound by the duty to protect the Name. 

 

There may be a 'time limit' to all this though, which is why there's a supposed 'end' to all this, but it isn't clear what this implies. In any case, this results in an epic confrontation.

 

Maybe this is why Visnu let Yuta live? Because he's the only one who can stop her? Anyway, if this theory is correct, it sure explains why Yuta was so attracted to Leez at first. D:

 

5. Others

 

One thing I find suspicious is with the Kinnara clan. From all evidence we've seen so far, Airavata seems to be in charge, yet there's no evidence (so far) that Kinnara is dead. Perhaps in D500, the clan was divided into those who supported Kinnara and those who supported Airavata, and it ended with Airavata taking over as true King somehow, just like Sagara took over as King of the Ananta clan (hence them being divided over the 'Power of the Name'. I always found weird that the rest of the clan told Sagara to step down the throne whenever she wished, when according to the side novel, that should only be possible if you died.

 

Since we've found out about the clan Names, it begs the question: are other clan Names being hidden around? Perhaps the Kinnara clan Name is now hidden with Leny without her knowing? (which explains Shess' true purpose here, and why he's protecting Leny. I mean, I'm sure he's a nice guy, but c'mon).

 

What about the Yaksha clan Name? Garuda hid his clan's Name within one of his children. Could the Yaksha clan Name be hidden within say, the descendant of the current King? *eyes Ran* (hey, I always wondered why the Heck he's considered a main character. As a small note: Leez was very puzzled by how mad Asha got when Ran called her a guy. Perhaps that wasn't the reason at all: perhaps Ran, like Leez, was one of the people Asha was supposed to pick up because of their connections with this mess. Asha was merely extremely pissed that yet Another one of her proteges turned out to be an annoying brat).

 

By the way, there seems to be a bunch of 'ghosts' involved as well. One is controlling Leez, but there may be other ones floating around. It isn't clear who they are. D: In N0, there appeared to be a case of mass amnesia, but Agwen forgot the events of D995 (I suspect Ran may have too, which is why he forgot about Parr?). When Brilith was threatened, Agwen was the only one who visited. Is someone controlling Agwen as well? >_<

 

Anyway, we're still missing large chunks of the puzzle. In particular, we know just about nothing of what's occurred on the side of the Gods. Currygom said on her blog once that we'll eventually learn about 'Agni's past', so there's definitely something going on, plus Indra, Varuna and Vayu seem involved as well. Yama also seems to know something.

 

That's all I can think of for now. All this makes my head hurt. xD

Edited by Mizura, 02 March 2014 - 03:50 PM.

[BronzeWings]

thanks mizura!  this is incredible.

 

i kind of think that yuta ended up with ananta's name, actually.  it would set things up for an interesting dynamic between leez and yuta - with leez having the name of the person who betrayed yuta's namesake.  it's possible that kali's motivation, all along, was to get a hold of ananta's name, since it was the strongest.

 

also, i thought your theory that yuta could only be killed by physical attacks was interesting - and likely, and sad, because that also sort of sets up a fight between him and leez.    or, at the very least, that means that leez will probably be the only one capable of killing him.

 

i'm also curious about what happened between gandharva and taraka in N5.  right after teo died, cloche said something about how, even after gandharva created an ocean, he was still terrifying when he took sura form.  this makes it sound like he succeeded in creating an ocean, but then taraka arrived and sealed his transcendentals.  but then, why didn't he die?  maybe the ananta clan arrived and saved everyone, but that's when sagara got her transcendentals sealed as well?  this still doesn't explain how gandharva ended up in the human realm, but i do wonder why taraka was attacking the gandharva tribe.

 

all this makes the think that gandharva was somehow important to the power of the name, too.  it always felt like he was kind of the load in kubera's group (he didn't really want to do anything, sagara and co. didn't think he could really do anything), but maybe his presence was vital and he still has some role to play.

 

one last theory: i think that whatever happened in the water channel must have been really significant, although i don't entirely see why.  sagara thought that god kubera triggered the emotional resonance with the gandharva tribe in order to encourage them to attack atera, but i always thought he did it to force leez and co. to travel via mistyshore and go through the water channel.  apparently the point of this was to have them run into taraka; maybe god kubera was hoping that yuta would get separated from leez?  the whole incident with taraka and leez happened after they met kubera, which makes me suspicious that he might've encouraged her to try to take yuta back in the first place.  

[Boggyb]

Missing moment:

2-23 "Insight? Many Gods have the ability of Insight, not just Kali... Although Visnu and Kali did not have ordinary insight. They..."

 

Relevant because of the comment about God Kubera's opponent knowing how the battle will end. We know Visnu has perfect insight, but maybe so does Kali.

 

My theory:

When the Sword of Re failed to be enough to kill Shiva, Kali devised an alternative plan using the Power of the Name and created Yuta as her hammer to accomplish the task. Everything that has happened has been either a part of that plan or people acting to prevent that plan.

 

Yuta breaking Visnu's earrings and possibly breaking the Water Channel (important since Brahma hasn't gone missing. We saw her talking to Yama after Agni defeated/killed? him to prevent him from killing Brilith if she summoned him again) shows that he theoretically has the power to do so.

Edited by Boggyb, 02 March 2014 - 07:24 PM.

[Marim]

Kali must have same type insight as Visnu, since in the finite possible culprits who told Vritra about Ian were Kali and Visnu (even though her insight couldn't be trusted).

Edited by Marim, 02 March 2014 - 08:09 PM.

[Are]

Theory: Maruna and Shakuntala have some sort of interaction not stated?

 

Looks like his 2nd stage, and her 3rd stage.

Attached Files

•  Maruna.png   117.64KB   7 downloads

[Mizura]

Thanks Boggyb, I've added it! You've got a point. We know that the Primeval Gods differ from other Gods because their insight is more powerful, i.e. they can even use it on Nastika and 5-zen Gods. By the way, are you saying that Kali made Yuta to kill Shiva? That's actually a pretty interesting idea. *__*

 

However, that reference is worth noting because Kali's insight may work in a different way than Visnu's. Visnu supposedly has the most powerful insight (blog stuff) and can see the consequences of all choices, but perhaps Kali's insight works in a different, deviant way.

 

@BronzeWings: on Yuta vs Leez, it may be that both end up the only ones capable of killing one another. If Leez does indeed get a Sura form or the likes, Yuta may be the only one capable of negating it, thus bringing her down to a possible level of confrontation. And you're right, maybe Yuta does have Ananta's Name. If Kali stole it in D500, she could have fed it to Yuta already. Though alternatively, maybe she either didn't do so, or wasn't able to get her hands on that Name Yet, but set up events so that Yuta would have the opportunity to eat the one who Does have the Name Ananta (Leez). D:

 

In N5, my theory of the events are as follow:

- After N0, Maruna went back to see his clan. There he learned the things that he was thinking of when he confronted Yuta. He was supposed to come back some time around N5.

- Sagara and Manasvin went to see Gandharva around N5. They were still nearby, with some of Sagara's minions, when the Taraka clan attacked.

- So in N5, with the Taraka clan attacking, Gandharva decided to create an ocean. He was initially successful/making progress, but...

- Taraka showed up and negated everything, leaving the massacre we see in both Taraka (ch. 95) and Gandharva's (ch. 2-31) memories. Ironically, this interruption may have saved Gandharva's life, for now.

- Gandharva tried to hold them off, but maybe Maruna shows up then and manages to take him to safety.

- In the meantime, Sagara and Manasvin, who were still nearby, may have either been caught up, or tried to lend a hand. Sagara got her transcendentals sealed as a result, and who knows what happened to Manasvin.

- After everything was over, Cloche may have used her abilities to try to figure out what happened, and saw Shakuntala about to be killed, thus assuming that she was indeed eaten.

 

I'm not sure when Gandharva went off in a rampage in Sura-form though, or how he ended up in the human realm.

 

What I Suspect is that God Kubera is the one who had Taraka attack the Gandharva clan, in exchange for helping her find her son. She readily accepted, because she hated Gandharva for being among those who hid her son from her anyway. God Kubera may then have taken Taraka to Carte, where helped him destroy the whole planet in N5 and was then told to wait in the Water Channels. Anyway, the Ananta Sura may have been able to investigate the area later, precisely because Taraka left. Maybe that gave Gandharva some time to go on a rampage. God Kubera shows up, and may have taken him and Maruna to the human realm then.

 

God Kubera later kept his end of the bargain with Taraka, by making sure that Yuta went through the Water Channels. So in fact, he wasn't there for Leez' sake, but for Taraka's sake. Later, in Kalibloom, Gandharva later thought he felt Taraka's presence, and thought it made no sense for her to be in the human realm, so Taraka should not be able to freely come to the human realm on her own. That's my theory on N5.

 

Now, something else may be going on with Gandharva. He took Sura form after all. Perhaps Visnu did something to him or made exceptions for him so that he can fulfil the roles he has planned for him.

 

Are: welcome! I'm not sure what you're saying though, that picture is of 3rd stage Yuta and Leez. ^^

[Ironandpeaches]

I wonder if Leez, Leny, Yuta, Kalaviknka, and Maruna all being relatively young has anything to do with how Names are handled. This would imply that Names have to be introduced at or near birth for them to transfer. But then Sagara is supposedly the king of the Anata, so who knows? 

 

@Boddyb

Regarding Kali and Shiva's conflict, it makes more sense to me that Kali was already planning to use the Power of the Name before they fought. Shiva found out about the mechanism flaw, exploit, or what have you, but Kali did everything in her power to stop Shiva from fixing the problem. Kali must have devised a master plan when she found out about the unstable nature of Names because she tried to make it so that Shiva could never again regenerate. She wanted him out of the picture for good, and she must have succeeded because the flaw still exists. If Shiva is suppose to erase the mistakes in the universe, preventing beings from exploiting names would probably be pretty high up there on the to-do list.

 

Visnu's actions during N0 look like those of maximum damage control, a last ditch effort by two of primeval gods to alter fate in such a way that has the smallest impact on the universe (though it makes for one hell of a story). 

Edited by Ironandpeaches, 03 March 2014 - 06:46 AM.

[TraSua]

I'm just adding to your theory of Leez inherite/unlocking Ananta's Name, Mizura.

 

Ch. 2-49 : God Kubera said, "If you take after him in your tendency to trust... It is all too obvious what choice you will make."

 

Based on your theory that Kubera killed Ananta through some sort of trickery, and based on many other contexts within the story, Ananta's personality appears to be trusting. It might be a clue to Ananta and Leez's relations.

 

I hope you understand what I'm saying. I'm so terrible at explaining myself...

[Mizura]

^ Ah, true. Thanks, I added it under the Leez section!

 

The sad thing about that sentence is how vague it is. He could either have been talking about Ananta or about Rao Leez. In both cases it'd have a shitload of implications. x'P

 

Ironandpeaches: Interesting theory! I'm looking forward to finding out more about Shiva too.

[seileene]

Hello~ I don't use forums very often or anything, but I must say, this is a really interesting collection of information. =]

 

Anyways, I thought of a couple things while paging through. I certainly don't claim any form of expertise, though.

 

I think it's worth mentioning that god Kubera very adamantly insisted that Leez was not to give him a name, and that she wasn't even to give 'mister' the connotation of being a proper name. This sort of inversely implies that even the address of mister could become a problem if it became a name. Also, he never calls Leez by any name either (at least not that I've seen). Mutual dangers for when multiple people share the same Name? Either that or he's discarding his own Name? x.o; In any case, it strikes me as a peculiar and seemingly important interaction.

And I also think it's utterly improbable for Yuta not to have one of the 'dangerous' Nastika names that Kali took. Or possibly several.

It's crossed my mind more than once than Kali might have lost her own Name, whether to her own devices or simply losing her own identity. I doubt Yuta has it though (the Hide of Bondage did work on him, at least initially).

On Insight. I seem to recall seeing something about Visnu seeing the consequences of every possible choice. As for Taraka, Yuta described her Insight as something that corrupted (changed?) choices. That seems very, very different by nature.

By the way, do we have any clues as to when Garuda fell into a coma? (Before, during or after N0?)

[Blunt]

Really awesome job, Mizura. It's still unclear to me though what makes you think Leez would inherit Ananta's name as opposed to Kubera's? She is after all named after the latter who has flat out said several times that he is no longer or will soon no longer be Kubera. If anything, I see God Kubera taking on Ananta's name and Leez becoming the new fully fledged Kubera. 

 

My own theory is that this universe is teetering towards its end and that Kubera isn't going to disappear because Leez is going to take on his mantle, but because the concept he represents (Earth, which also just so happens to be Ananta's attribute) is going to be destroyed. Hence why future Leez feels obligated to protect the Name - protecting the Name ensures the universe's survival. It falls more in line with your theory if the person who possessed Leez was actually Ananta. If he is still alive in some form it makes sense that he would desire more than anyone Leez to become extremely powerful as it cold potentially make for his true revival. That's all pretty far stretched though. 

Edited by Blunt, 09 March 2014 - 06:44 AM.

[Mizura]

@seileene: true, I wonder if there is any significance to that as well. Is Leez able to 'Name' others now? But if she has that authority, then it's even beyond the scope of the power of a God or a Nastika. :S

On Taraka's insight, we're not sure if it's exactly like Kali's. We do know that Kali had a reputation as a liar. It's unclear if her Insight is unreliable or if she was just lying to everyone.

Maruna told Yuta about Garuda during their brief confrontation: Garuda fell into the coma shortly after the Cataclysm.
http://vatoto.com/read/_/220075/kubera_v2_ch73_by_the-company

@Blunt: I could be wrong about the entire Ananta business of course. It's just that something felt very wrong the moment it was revealed that Gods are weaklings compared to Nastika. Why would so many Sura be needed just to deal with the Name of a single God? And yet, this God somehow managed to kill the strongest being, even if it was through deception. And in the insights, Leez seem to be facing armies of Sura, -in the Sura realm-, so not just puny inferior Sura. Basically something doesn't seem to add up.

Since both God Kubera and Ananta represented the pinnacle of the Earth element, I thought that perhaps God Kubera used his Name to negate Ananta's or the likes. I've revised that theory a bit, and I think that perhaps, God Kubera's Name is being used to seal or protect Ananta's. That's why Leez could dream about Ananta, even though Nastika don't have an afterlife. And that may explain the reflection Yuta saw at the Temple of Chaos: Leez actually has a Sura form. If the strongest Name falls into the hands of someone else, well... stuff.

I don't think any of the parties are actually seeking the destruction of the Universe, either, though it may come to that. After all, Gandharva is looking for his daughter, and Maruna is looking for his siblings. It doesn't appear that they want to destroy the world.

Let's just say that for the moment, Leez having Both God Kubera and Ananta's Names is the 'minimum' theory I can think of. If it turns out to be something else, I suspect it can only be something on a Bigger scale, something that encompassed the fall of the strongest Nastika, the huge chaos in N0 and ensuing separation of races, the disappearance of three Primeval Gods over time, one Nastika King leaving (Shuri), another in a coma with his mate dead (Garuda), clan Names being desperately hidden away, and Visnu's powers apparently failing.

Edited by Mizura, 09 March 2014 - 09:41 AM.

[BehindTheLighT]

about the destruction of the water channels... I thought it was because taraka was opening a gate to the sura world... why do you think it was Asha's hoti visnu mizura?

[seileene]

Oh, thanks! =]

The bit about Garuda must have slipped my notice in all the ensuing drama, heh.

[dondara]

about the destruction of the water channels... I thought it was because taraka was opening a gate to the sura world... why do you think it was Asha's hoti visnu mizura?

 

Hoti Visnu deals with time manipulation if I'm not mistaken, and that would logically restore the water channel to a previous/better state.

 

I think the water channel started collapsing way before Taraka opened a gate. It was a round the time when Yuta had taken sura form and then he flies Ran and Leez to a safer place.

 

My opinion on the subject-> most probably caused by Yuta and the dangerous name given by Kali. Yuta has traits/abilities far surpassing normal chaos standards.

 

*this compilation is epic OP.

Edited by dondara, 11 March 2014 - 02:39 AM.

[Rororo]

Since both God Kubera and Ananta represented the pinnacle of the Earth element, I thought that perhaps God Kubera used his Name to negate Ananta's or the likes. I've revised that theory a bit, and I think that perhaps, God Kubera's Name is being used to seal or protect Ananta's. That's why Leez could dream about Ananta, even though Nastika don't have an afterlife. And that may explain the reflection Yuta saw at the Temple of Chaos: Leez actually has a Sura form. If the strongest Name falls into the hands of someone else, well... stuff.

 

Hmm...interesting...

That theory is possibly very close to the truth since it's been revealed that Leez has no divine affinity but a very high transcendental value (From the Test of Sword arc when Leez was measuring her divine/transcendental value). That's if my knowledge of Suras only having transcendentals is true. 

Edited by Rororo, 11 March 2014 - 03:47 AM.

[seileene]

Leez's dad could use transcendentals; it's certainly not the norm, though. Seems like Leez spends a fair amount of her life getting mistaken for being Quarter. Heh.

http://vatoto.com/read/_/139856/kubera_v2_ch11_by_the-company/2

 

And I'm gonna have to reread it again and keep my eyes peeled for Ananta, in any case. I had a hard time keeping track of what he looked like, and missed what seems to be a fair amount of relevant information.

[Tsubaki]

Awesome compilation. I do notes since my second readthrough and always I’m surprised how much I missed, but that’s why I love Kubera, you always find some new mysteries 8D

 

 

 

Ch. 91: In Taraka's presence, Ran's Hoti Varuna stops working, though the raft made by Asha is still there.

Woah... can't belive I didn't notice this xD Thats very suspicious.... wonder if Leez, Ran or Yuta gave a tought to it.

 

I think you’re right with Leez having Ananta and Kuberas name, for me the biggest affirmation of that theory was the reflection Yuta saw. I think it was Leez reflecting Ananta (snakelike body) and Kubera (flowerish ranks… because earth and plans, you know) at the same time. Since I was assuming gods may have something like a ‘true form’too. That sentence from Gandharva in ch. 1-14 ‘She was staring at the sky were you stand’sounds just so strange… 

I think the two names, Ananta and Kubera, got somehow meddled when Ananta died mybe really because they share the same Element.

I have a itheory that clan-names of Sura are somehow connected to the names of the gods with the same element (maybe like positive and negative side of the same medall). I somehow think the clan name has to do something with all the Nastika of a clan and killing a Nastika gives more power to the gods, thus some of the gods would take every chance to kill one of them..

I also find it somehow suspicious that the three clans that seem to have the greatest problems; Ananta, Garuda, Gandharva are corresponding to the gods that attacked the Ananta in D500, Kubera, Indra and Varuna.

[TraSua]

So, there is this question that I have to ask, and hopefully someone can answer me.

 

 A Nastika mating with another Nastika only produce Rakshasas, right?

Then eventually, wouldn't all Nastikas perish? (of course assuming that they will die in battle one day and can't reincarnate)

If a Rakshasa mate with another Rakshasa, then their offspring would be a Rakshasa, or something else?

 

This is just a speculation and I'm not expecting any answer for anything following this sentence. Since Nastika can only produce Rakshasa, I wonder if the ones (referring to sura only) who are desperately helping God Kubera are actually not after his name, but the mechanism behind it. Therefore, they can use the gathered information and give Rakshasa a Nastika name in order to sustain the sura race. Or maybe, and this is a really wild guess, it's possible for new Nastikas to be born from the names?