10 replies to this topic

[Ra-Leader]

There is a new tite called 

Beageruta 

that has just released with 1 chapter... it contains some of the most horrific, repugnant images I've ever come across in manga. 

 

I know that most Batotoans live with a certain kind of moral flexibility with regard to the content they consume, but pages 25-27  of chapter 1 (could be more, I stopped reading) are so graphic and reprehensible that there's simply no way to include that on this site without implicitly supporting that scene as a form of entertainment. Some things just don't need to be shown, no matter how badly the author wants the reader to know of a character's brutal past.

 

I hope the moderators have the good sense to take that chapter down. 

 

 

 

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

- Edmund Burke

 

Please don't do nothing.

[svines85]

It's just a suggestion but this probably could be brought up in an existing thread in General Comic Hosting

 

http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/2977-not-sure-about-a-comic-ask-if-appropriate-here/?view=getlastpost

 

and again, just a suggestion, you might want to review the posted rules in post #1 of that thread by mhh in order to make a case of specifically why (per the rules) it's inappropriate for Batoto.  

[seyrine]

Moved to General Comic Hosting Forum.

[vince]

It's not even rape or torture. It's an exaggeration of S&M which some people (including the character, in this case) do willingly. Unlike ero/guro titles which are done specifically for the purpose of sexual/graphic gore scenes and serve no other purpose than to excite the viewer, the scenes in this manga are simply part of the storytelling medium. There's no need to whitewash everything. It's already tagged as a mature series.

[svines85]

It's not even rape or torture. It's an exaggeration of S&M which some people (including the character, in this case) do willingly. Unlike ero/guro titles which are done specifically for the purpose of sexual/graphic gore scenes and serve no other purpose than to excite the viewer, the scenes in this manga are simply part of the storytelling medium. There's no need to whitewash everything. It's already tagged as a mature series.

Well, though I don't think  Ra-Leader expressed the issue very well (other than them not liking the content), Batoto rules do specifically mention BDSM content (and there's a track record of citing such content as reason for removal), which is what's portrayed in those pages that are mentioned.

 

I'm not saying it bothered me or didn't, I'm also not taking any stand on some of the things that have been said (on the comic page) either...........but Ra-Leader does have a legitimate point in bringing it to the Batoto staff's attention if they feel strongly enough to do so.

 

The site has posted content standards and rules, reporting things is in the best interest of the community as a whole. Batoto's staff will make a decision about it if they haven't already, there's really no reason to kill the messenger.  

Edited by svines85, 08 January 2014 - 10:10 PM.

[Loki]

Since nobody has said anything so far , i think i should mention that in my opinion the series isn't explicit enough to warrant a removal from the site. However by no means do i deminish the ligitimate questioning of wether it should stay or not. I will take it upon myself to have the other staff offer their opinions in writing here as well , even if they have already formed it in their minds.

[OMGWTFBBQPONIES]

After taking a look at first volume's raw, there's a bit of torture (on male; stuff like electric shock and if I'm not mistaken breaking a finger)  and one instance of what I assume was a hostage being kept in one of those full body bdsm suits. Other than that, dialogues that I'm unable to rate and action scenes. Nothing as "bad" as the scene mentioned in opening post.
 
For comparison, Bradherley no Basha by the same author is - if my memory serves me right - much more disturbing to read while being less graphic.

[Ra-Leader]

Hello again folks,

 

I realize that I may have done a poor job of communicating this issue - objective facts with regard to the site's rules are always preferable to emotionally charged adjective slinging. I apologize for both my inability to locate the site's rules at the time of writng, and for my lack of awareness with regard to where this thread would have been best suited.

 

Thank you to the moderators for their measured feedback and helpful technical maneuverings.

 

I am convinced that despite the best intentions of those in favor of keeping the manga on this site, it graphically depicts inhumane treatment of another human in such a manner that I can only assume it is intended for the pleasure of a select few who harbor the desire to enact similar circumstances in real life. Even if it does so only once, that is enough to warrant the action I have requested. Whether there are other comics on this site containing similar content or even escalated content is irrelevant to my request. The fact that other inhumane depictions may have gone unflagged in no way mitigates the responsibility of the community to address the concern when a flag finally is raised.

 

 

It bears repeating that (excepting all of the playful sexual banter on batoto, of which there is much) I hope that no one here would willingly participate in anything that resembles encouraging a person that is cultivating a taste for the victimization of other humans in real life. Even if 90% of readers pass over that scene with a nonchalance that indicates indifference to the objectionable material, the merest possibility that a fraction of readers are viewing that scene with a particular interest in gratifying their desire for similar circumstances in real life (ie the torture of other humans), it seems in the best interest of the community to take that material down.

 

I will do my part later this evening to identify specifically how it may violate the rules of the community and make a more functional argument at that time, but I felt this is a good followup to my initial post.

 

Thank you for your time,

 

RaLeader

Edited by Ra-Leader, 15 January 2014 - 09:53 PM.

[svines85]

I hope that no one here would willingly participate in anything that resembles encouraging a person that is cultivating a taste for the victimization of other humans in real life. Even if 90% of readers pass over that scene with a nonchalance that indicates indifference to the objectionable material, the merest possibility that a fraction of readers are viewing that scene with a particular interest in gratifying their desire for similar circumstances in real life (ie the torture of other humans), it seems in the best interest of the community to take that material down.

Well, I certainly didn't pass over it with nonchalance, frankly those few pages (taken out of context) are as good as straight out of a hentai doujin (minus a few close up shots of genitalia that is). However it's not actually a hentai doujin and those few pages should be taken with the context of the rest of the work. You were offended by it and reported it, good deal, I personally think it was the right thing to do given the circumstances.

 

It is an artistic work however, and depictions of acts that aren't acceptable do happen in artistic works. It hasn't been all that long ago that the film The Passion of the Christ was a monster hit world wide.........and it had some of the most gruesome torture imaginable depicted.   The manga Bitter Virgin portrays/depicts the repeated sexual assault of an underage girl........it's considered "main stream" and an excellent work. What can you say? It's a judgement call, worrying that people will watch bad things happening on the local news and then run out and do them themselves seems a little over the top.  

[Grumpy]

 

I am convinced that despite the best intentions of those in favor of keeping the manga on this site, it graphically depicts inhumane treatment of another human in such a manner that I can only assume it is intended for the pleasure of a select few who harbor the desire to enact similar circumstances in real life. Even if it does so only once, that is enough to warrant the action I have requested. Whether there are other comics on this site containing similar content or even escalated content is irrelevant to my request. The fact that other inhumane depictions may have gone unflagged in no way mitigates the responsibility of the community to address the concern when a flag finally is raised.

 

 

It bears repeating that (excepting all of the playful sexual banter on batoto, of which there is much) I hope that no one here would willingly participate in anything that resembles encouraging a person that is cultivating a taste for the victimization of other humans in real life. Even if 90% of readers pass over that scene with a nonchalance that indicates indifference to the objectionable material, the merest possibility that a fraction of readers are viewing that scene with a particular interest in gratifying their desire for similar circumstances in real life (ie the torture of other humans), it seems in the best interest of the community to take that material down.

Nothing in your statement seem to be a point about our rules.

We will remove chapters/comics which are against our rules. "Inhumane treatment" nor 'someone might enjoy something deplorable' are against our rules which seem to be the core of your points.

 

You might also want to note... the 2nd part of that statement is one often used by anti-gay--that they shouldn't be allowed to enjoy something deplorable.

[Rol]

It seems to me that you are judging this scene immoral because you think treatment like this is inhumane and shouldn't be shown. While I agree this is violent and might depict a crude scene, it seemed to me that the two characters of this scene were both willing to participate. I didn't read it entirely though, so if it's not true and the girl is forced and doesn't appreciate it, feel free to ignore what comes next. However, if the girl enjoys it, what is the problem of the scene ? How is it immoral/inhumane if something like this happens with the consent of both partners and in a controlled environment ?

And what if some readers feel pleasure enjoying this scene ? Everyone has fetishes or things they particularly enjoy, I don't see any problem as long as they don't hurt anyone while enjoying themselves. Banning something because you think it is immoral is flawed.

Anyway, I'm not sure I should have posted, but I felt like it.