161 replies to this topic

[bkaa22]

It's normal in games to have more information about your own stats than about other people's stats.  I don't think that it is surprising that Jee-Han wouldn't be able to see how much of Sun-Il's stats come from passive bonuses.

 

True. But remember how Jee-Han's stats are portrayed. Base stat is alone, then the skill set bonus and then the percentage increases. He doesn't see them all tallied up. So as it is right now we have no reason to believe that it is different for Sun-Il's stats.

[fistsofrage]

There are a lot of martial arts manga/manhwa and all of them agree that Ki/mana is the most important thing to have. The more ki you have, the stronger you are. And since Mana and Ki seem to be the same or similar enough in Jee-Han's case, I think increasing his INT was a really smart thing to do. By doing so he also increased his mana and made it possible for him to do more skill wise.

 

As Sun-il explained earlier, Dex is not really a must in martial arts. It's more important to have the strength to defeat the opponent, and Jee-Han seems to be good at using his gamer's mind to analyze situations and avoid danger. Increasing his Vit to suit his level and his Str to add to his damage seems to be the standard way to go. Wis, Luk, and Dex are attractive but not necessary additions. I'm curious as to what affects they have on Jee-Han's gamer body, but since they naturally increase with his level and perhaps his martial arts training, we'll probably see their effects anyway.

[magnificent]

Well in chapter 19 we just witnessed how Jee-han's improving INT was especially useful. If he hadn't put those points into INT but instead distributed equally, I believe things would not have ended that well. Chapter 19 shows that his specialization in INT paid off. STR, DEX, and VIT are all easily improved through his martial arts mastery.  Titles help different things too but I believe he should attempt to rach 90 INT for the chunbomoon divine skill while boosting his other stats through training. The training of martial arts thus STR, DEX, and VIT seems to go much faster than training INT. MORE INT Jee-han!

[Purple Library Guy]

Generally MP is based on INT and WIS but in this case MP also is related to KI energy which is strongly connected with body(vitality?) since KI(qi, chi) is described frequently as "life force", it  is the central underlying principle in traditional Chinese medicine and martial arts. The literal translation of "qi"(ki, chi) is "breath", "air", or "gas".

 

On the other hand from what was said in gamer(in chapter 11) it looks like mana and KI  are same energy but used differently, which is weird since generally in fiction mana is related more to mind while KI to body.

I question the premise here.  While chi is not itself a mental thing exactly, not a matter of your raw mental reserves or anything, I don't see it as a brute physical thing either.  Although, OK, some anime do kind of make a person's chi some kind of basic personal reservoir, to me it's a thing about harmony rather than size.  You have "more" chi if you are able to let it flow through you without obstruction, and it's less your personal energy, breath, essence or what have you than it is the bit you are able to access of the universe's energy flow.  If you buy that, it would imply that Wis, although not necessarily Int, would have a significant role to play.  If you're serene enough, harmonious enough, let the energies flow unobstructed enough, then you "have lots of chi".

[Purple Library Guy]

What good is WIS then?  I'm not sure, as it does not seem to be doing much right now.

True.  But then, he hardly has any so it wouldn't do much, would it?

We have no notion what kind of things would pop up if he boosted Wis over 50.  I'm not saying he should do that, just that we can't really make very good guesses based on a guy who's got a Wis under 10 and has never boosted it at all, not getting anything from it.

He does have one challenge here that normal game players don't have:  Basically, he doesn't know what game he's playing.  In a sense he's the first play-tester ever.  And (as far as we know) he can't change his build, much less start a new character if he doesn't like how the current one is going.

I think he should probably boost Wis and Luck at least somewhat, if only because most of his other stats he can boost one way or another through training, so level slow-down doesn't hit his ability to raise them quite as hard.

[Agonal]

True. But then, he hardly has any so it wouldn't do much, would it?
We have no notion what kind of things would pop up if he boosted Wis over 50. I'm not saying he should do that, just that we can't really make very good guesses based on a guy who's got a Wis under 10 and has never boosted it at all, not getting anything from it.

Agreed! I would have to say back intelligence up with wisdom. My philosophy on int/wis functions is tuis: intelligence is having really good ideas, while wisdom is putting thise good ideas to use. Anyways, go with int/wis, and then vitality to avoid squisheeness. Maybe go with a 2:2:1 ratio with his stat points until he gets them respectable, then perhaps change it up. This way he can train to acquire strength, vitality, and dexterity. I would think strength and vitality would be the easiest of these to acquire through traditional means, IE weight lifting, cardio, etc.

-For one, I think those two together would benefit him more in his world and allow him to climb to the higher echelons of any corporate ladder, as well as mastermind whatever political and/or wargame jihan is sure to find himself in. This would allow him to see all angles, develop a plan, and act as the situation dictates.

-Secondly, and i have read others mentions this as well, it would set him apart from and make him more valuable to chunbumoon in that he would compliment their style. Aka, the warrior/mage party. One person to tank and deal damage (sun-il) while the other heals and does devastating damage (jihan) from a distance.

-third, and lastly, although it kind of parrots the second reason, is because it sets him apart from sun-il and the chunbumoon clan. If he went str/vit/dex then he would always be chasing after and imitating sun-il and the other chunbumoon clan members. It would also give the sense that he was in direct competition with sun-il and his family, as well, and could breed some resentment on both sides. After all, he would do in days/weeks what took them a lifetime to acquire and generations to perfect. You cant tell me someone wouldnt naturally harbor some sort of envy or resentment at that.

SO, to reiterate! Focus on int/wis and train with chunbumoon. He's thereby different from the chunbumoon, valued for his unique abilities, still being trained by the clan in their martial arts, and acquiring their skills at a more natural rate through diligence and hard work - which is bound to sit better than pumping up stats via a button push and becoming greater than the both the head of the family and the clan heir in the course of the next year!

Edited by Agonal, 11 January 2014 - 03:48 AM.

[magnificent]

Agreed! I would have to say back intelligence up with wisdom. My philosophy on int/wis functions is tuis: intelligence is having really good ideas, while wisdom is putting thise good ideas to use. Anyways, go with int/wis, and then vitality to avoid squisheeness. Maybe go with a 2:2:1 ratio with his stat points until he gets them respectable, then perhaps change it up. This way he can train to acquire strength, vitality, and dexterity. I would think strength and vitality would be the easiest of these to acquire through traditional means, IE weight lifting, cardio, etc.

-For one, I think those two together would benefit him more in his world and allow him to climb to the higher echelons of any corporate ladder, as well as mastermind whatever political and/or wargame jihan is sure to find himself in. This would allow him to see all angles, develop a plan, and act as the situation dictates.

-Secondly, and i have read others mentions this as well, it would set him apart from and make him more valuable to chunbumoon in that he would compliment their style. Aka, the warrior/mage party. One person to tank and deal damage (sun-il) while the other heals and does devastating damage (jihan) from a distance.

-third, and lastly, although it kind of parrots the second reason, is because it sets him apart from sun-il and the chunbumoon clan. If he went str/vit/dex then he would always be chasing after and imitating sun-il and the other chunbumoon clan members. It would also give the sense that he was in direct competition with sun-il and his family, as well, and could breed some resentment on both sides. After all, he would do in days/weeks what took them a lifetime to acquire and generations to perfect. You cant tell me someone wouldnt naturally harbor some sort of envy or resentment at that.

SO, to reiterate! Focus on int/wis and train with chunbumoon. He's thereby different from the chunbumoon, valued for his unique abilities, still being trained by the clan in their martial arts, and acquiring their skills at a more natural rate through diligence and hard work - which is bound to sit better than pumping up stats via a button push and becoming greater than the both the head of the family and the clan heir in the course of the next year!

 

WIS is typically associated with common sense or being able to infer things. in D&D it affects skills like spot, listen, heal, sense motive, profession, and survival. As a player playing a D&D character I come to conclusions using my own senses with the help of some rolls that may reveal the info. Even if I reveal something with a good roll, as the player I still have to my my own deductions often enough. Jee-han's role is now character and player so I don't think WIS will be nearly as helpful as INT. In D&D INT affects Knowledge skills, crafting, appraise, disable device, forgery, and spellcraft. If Jee-han is making his own inferences as the player I feel WIS will be less valuable.

 

After Jee-han's use of mana in ch 19 I believe he may go for 90 INT since it is only 7 more levels.

[fistsofrage]

Well in chapter 19 we just witnessed how Jee-han's improving INT was especially useful. If he hadn't put those points into INT but instead distributed equally, I believe things would not have ended that well. Chapter 19 shows that his specialization in INT paid off. STR, DEX, and VIT are all easily improved through his martial arts mastery.  Titles help different things too but I believe he should attempt to rach 90 INT for the chunbomoon divine skill while boosting his other stats through training. The training of martial arts thus STR, DEX, and VIT seems to go much faster than training INT. MORE INT Jee-han!

 

Chunbumoon has given Jee-Han their basic techniques but I don't think he will be given their divine techniques or anything else. Those are Sun-Il's inheritance as the "Heir of Chunbumoon". Jee-Han's gamer ability is more than capable of coming up with more skills, and he may be able to obtain Yunhonmoon (or w.e it's called) clan's basic techniques as well. Or he might find more skill books, especially if they fall from bosses or monsters.

 

His ability is very strange, he might gain a fire ability if he screws around with fire a lot, or gain flame resistance. He doesn't necessarily need to cast spells, he just needs to screw around and get gaia to grant him the skills to do so. If he could make textbooks vanish for int stat gain his ability would be way more overpowered as well.

Edited by fistsofrage, 11 January 2014 - 06:03 AM.

[magnificent]

Even though he could not learn the chunbumoon divine book it was put into his inventory, a message said "you have received chunbumoon divine book" after it told him he could learn it. Textbooks are not styled like manuals so I believe that is why he cannot learn them like skill books (at least for now).

[Agonal]

As a player playing a D&D character I come to conclusions using my own senses with the help of some rolls that may reveal the info. Even if I reveal something with a good roll, as the player I still have to my my own deductions often enough. Jee-han's role is now character and player so I don't think WIS will be nearly as helpful as INT. If Jee-han is making his own inferences as the player I feel WIS will be less valuable.

After Jee-han's use of mana in ch 19 I believe he may go for 90 INT since it is only 7 more levels.

You seem to confuse intelligence and wisdom. I say this because you infer what wisdom does with intelligence. Easy to do because theyre very much alike.

Playing a game/D&D character and [i]being[/] that character are not he same. Jihan is jihan, his decisions are his own, but he has become the character. So your use of your own wisdom (or lack of it) to make decisions on behalf of your hero are not valid arguments in this instance.

In the beginning jihan said when he raised strength he actually became stronger. If he raises wisdom, he acutally becomes more wise, no? That means he is capable of making better decisions by having epiphonies and utilizing logic.

Intelligence would be learning a technique from a mentor. Wisdom would be developing the same technique on your own by applying your understanding.

In short, wisdom is a modifier for intelligence in that it improves its efficacy.

I wouldnconcur that he should grind int to 90 though. May as well go ahead and finish that off. But then i would raise my wisdom.

Edited by Agonal, 11 January 2014 - 02:04 PM.

[General Hercules]

I think it's something like this:

Sun-Il

STR: 28 + 2 + 6.16(22%) + 6.16(22%)  = 42.32 (rounds to 42)

VIT: 59 + 2 + 12.98(22%) + 12.98(22%) = 86.96 (rounds to 87)

DEX: 35 + 2 + 7.7(22%) + 7.7(22%) = 52.4 (rounds to 52)

INT: 19 + 2 = 21

WIS: 14

LUK: 25

 

28+59+35+19+14+25 = 180, so he would have the right number of points for someone who started at 40 and gained 5 per level.  +2 to STR, VIT, DEX, and INT for having all of Chunbumoon's basic skills, and the +22% bonuses are for the inner ki skill and outer ki skill (Jee-Han gets +10% at skill level 1, but it would be reasonable for Sun-Il's mastery of those skills to be higher since he has been practicing them for much longer.)

 

I like this point, but we are not certain that Sun-Il even gets any stat bonuses.  like the item drops it could be just for Jee-Han.

[fistsofrage]

Even though he could not learn the chunbumoon divine book it was put into his inventory, a message said "you have received chunbumoon divine book" after it told him he could learn it. Textbooks are not styled like manuals so I believe that is why he cannot learn them like skill books (at least for now).

 

I don't think he kept it. And Sun-Il specifically told him he could not have the divine technique in chapter 18...or was it 17?

 

Edit: It was chapter 18

 

 

You seem to confuse intelligence and wisdom. I say this because you infer what wisdom does with intelligence. Easy to do because theyre very much alike.

Playing a game/D&D character and [i]being[/] that character are not he same. Jihan is jihan, his decisions are his own, but he has become the character. So your use of your own wisdom (or lack of it) to make decisions on behalf of your hero are not valid arguments in this instance.

In the beginning jihan said when he raised strength he actually became stronger. If he raises wisdom, he acutally becomes more wise, no? That means he is capable of making better decisions by having epiphonies and utilizing logic.

Intelligence would be learning a technique from a mentor. Wisdom would be developing the same technique on your own by applying your understanding.

In short, wisdom is a modifier for intelligence in that it improves its efficacy.

I wouldnconcur that he should grind int to 90 though. May as well go ahead and finish that off. But then i would raise my wisdom.

 

I think by the middle of chapter 18 Jee-Han had already decided to hit 60 int and then raise his Str and Vit. But if you're just saying that's what you think the smart thing to do would be then okay. Seriously though, a lot of monsters would have no trouble one-shotting Jee-Han. He needs to raise his survivability.

Edited by fistsofrage, 11 January 2014 - 06:05 PM.

[freakyguy]

Chunbumoon has given Jee-Han their basic techniques but I don't think he will be given their divine techniques or anything else. Those are Sun-Il's inheritance as the "Heir of Chunbumoon". Jee-Han's gamer ability is more than capable of coming up with more skills, and he may be able to obtain Yunhonmoon (or w.e it's called) clan's basic techniques as well. Or he might find more skill books, especially if they fall from bosses or monsters.

 

His ability is very strange, he might gain a fire ability if he screws around with fire a lot, or gain flame resistance. He doesn't necessarily need to cast spells, he just needs to screw around and get gaia to grant him the skills to do so. If he could make textbooks vanish for int stat gain his ability would be way more overpowered as well.

Actually you can go to CH 14 where the MC ask "Should I learn this too?" for "Chunbu divine technique " and gramps just says "Yeah. If it says anything about detrimental effect like last time, don't learn it." In other words gramps has no problem MC learning that skill but only cares for his health or well being. 

[fistsofrage]

Actually you can go to CH 14 where the MC ask "Should I learn this too?" for "Chunbu divine technique " and gramps just says "Yeah. If it says anything about detrimental effect like last time, don't learn it." In other words gramps has no problem MC learning that skill but only cares for his health or well being. 

 

At the time Gramps said yeah, but later on we find out that Sun-il doesn't want him to learn it. Gramps specifically said "learn it if you can" as if he was challenging Jee-Han to learn it despite his body not meeting the requirements. It's most likely that Gramps wanted to see if Gaia would help him learn a technique that his body was not ready for in order to figure out how Jee-han's ability worked. In other words it was an experiment. Gramps also says in the same chapter that they can teach the basics to outsiders, but not the special techniques. Those special techniques are what makes Sun-il special as the "heir of chunbumoon" and I can understand him drawing the line for Jee-Han at the basic techniques.

 

Jee-Han's ability is overpowered as it is and he can pretty much learn an infinite amount of skills so there is no need to go for Chunbumoon's special techniques when he is not one of the Chunbumoon. He only aimed for 90 int on a whim because the divine skill happened to require 90 int. He wasn't thinking too deep about it.

[bkaa22]

What is the next stat he should focus on? I'm going with VIT. Given the passive and active bonuses with his Chunbu skills and then throw in his Weapon mastery skills he is a pretty decent combatant. And as shown so far, as long as he constantly uses a skill it will rise up to level 5 in no time. Doing that will give increased bonuses for 4 of his stats. With VIT improved he'll be able to take more hits and possible increase is health regeneration speed. Also given that Sun-Il uses "Ki" and he has a very high VIT score, I think that VIT influences his Ki. Since Jee-Han uses Ki and Mana interchangably raising his VIT could have benefits for his MP.

 

On a personal note I would like him to increase his WIS just to see what it does for him but that is just me personally.

[kendama]

Well, if he sticks to his plan, he is going to use his latest five points by putting them onto INT until it reaches 60, and the remaining (two or four, depending on whether he is counting the +2 bonus of Chunbu Breathing) onto STR and VIT. So he seems to be on his way to be an INT/STR/VIT character (whereas Sun-il is more of a VIT/DEX/STR character). I don't think, then, that they complement each other very well, since both are STR/VIT characters. Jee-han can strategise and Sun-il can do frontal attacks, but I think, by what you have been saying about parties in games (remember, I don't play them), they would need a third character to be balanced, say a WIS/DEX/STR character?

 

I was going to say "cue the Shi-yun girl", but now I remembered she is an airhead and doesn't look much of a WIS character.

 

Am I also right that a common scheme is to have one stat very high, two high and the others average or low? Because that's how things stand for Jee-han and Sun-il right now.

[bkaa22]

I like this point, but we are not certain that Sun-Il even gets any stat bonuses.  like the item drops it could be just for Jee-Han.

 

Since Jee-Han's ability allowed him to view Sun-Il as a game character: has stats, HP, MP, EXP, a title, etc., and Jee-Han learned skills/techniques that Sun-Il knows it seems plausible that those skills/techniques provide similar bonuses to Sun-Il. Otherwise what would those skills do for him?

Well, if he sticks to his plan, he is going to use his latest five points by putting them onto INT until it reaches 60, and the remaining (two or four, depending on whether he is counting the +2 bonus of Chunbu Breathing) onto STR and VIT. So he seems to be on his way to be an INT/STR/VIT character (whereas Sun-il is more of a VIT/DEX/STR character). I don't think, then, that they complement each other very well, since both are STR/VIT characters. Jee-han can strategise and Sun-il can do frontal attacks, but I think, by what you have been saying about parties in games (remember, I don't play them), they would need a third character to be balanced, say a WIS/DEX/STR character?

 

I was going to say "cue the Shi-yun girl", but now I remembered she is an airhead and doesn't look much of a WIS character.

 

Am I also right that a common scheme is to have one stat very high, two high and the others average or low? Because that's how things stand for Jee-han and Sun-il right now.

 

Just like how he dumped a lot of skill points in INT, he could focus on one other stat like VIT, WIS, or LUK and not have to worry about his combat effectiveness as long as he raises his skills. He mentioned that raising his skills is easy until level 10. And the bonuses his skills give him increase at higher levels.

 

At level 1 his Blunt Weapon Mastery gave him a 10% increase in attack damage and 5% increase in attack speed, at level 5 attack damage increased to 30% and attack speed increased to 10%. It is conceivable that the skill would get further bonuses at level 10. What if all his Chunbu skills were at level 10. With the passive and active bonuses combined with the weapon mastery skills he would probably be able to do quite well even if his base stats remain the same. Imagine if his Energy Bolt skill and Mana Affinity skill were at level 10 as well. He could keep his STR at 15 because his skills would compensate for him. That would allow him to devote the next 8 - 10 levels of stat points to a single stat easy. He could even focus on a lesser stat like WIS or LUK if he wanted to.

 

Even if his skills were only at level 5 it would still be impressive. Think of the stacking bonuses of Sword Mastery, Chunbu Sword Technique, Power Strike, Chunbu Spirit Technique, and Chunbu Foot Technique all together even if the skills were at level 1 using a Chunbu Sword.

[Ninjacat Dude]

The main character has two extra points left, personally I would be torn between vit+dex, dex+luck, luck+wis or wis++

[Olinser]

The main character has two extra points left, personally I would be torn between vit+dex, dex+luck, luck+wis or wis++

 

Eh, I've never been a big fan of using stat points to increase a luck stat.

 

Usually Luck stats purposefully do not have a large effect on combat, to prevent people from just maxing luck. Most games try to make it a tradeoff - if you get luck high, you'll get great drops, but have a tougher time in combat.

 

Usually you can find/craft items that give you large bonuses to luck, and when you actually want to go out farming for items/rare drops you put on your Luck equipment. This allows you to get good drops, but still be effective for tough bosses when you put your normal equipment back on.

 

Since he is a REAL person, and I doubt he wants to find out what happens if he dies, I'd definitely go for a defensive stat next, either Dex or Vit. Since his Vit is already 15, and I think a Dex avoidance build isn't the best idea when he probably only has 1 life, I'd say Vit should get pumped to 40-50 next.

Edited by Olinser, 20 January 2014 - 03:47 PM.

[jigsam]

I wonder what is Wisdom effect...

 

I think he need VIT a little, he's so fragile right now.

And I think he need some DEX, because the way we see now: magic type can miss...

 

But he can recover lack of DEX with shotgun/barrage type, or debuff skill. 

Edited by jigsam, 20 January 2014 - 04:31 PM.