46 replies to this topic

[easilyoffended]

I often post a comment on a series to warn others that "For those that dislike weak MCs, the MC in this manga is the powerless/non-badass type" because I myself like to glimpse through the comments to see what the MC is like in later chapters, especially after I have read one or two chapters in disappointment

 

When I make this comment however I usually follow up saying "and not in a good way like Witch Craft Works"

 

So as someone who would normally agree with you wholeheartedly about powerless MCs, I think your... not way off-base... but (baseball analogy) you kinda ran straight to second base and on the way you punched the pitcher

 

And by that I mean you missed a critical junction and you broke out the CAPITALS on the way

 

Witch Craft Work's 'Hook' or reason to draw readers in, is the fact that the traditional roles are reversed COMPLETELY     (dem capitals again)

 

Its not half-assed: where cutesy girls who are trying to be good 'wifey's' protect a weak male MC who is trying to 'gather his courage', which I'm sure we both agree is worth raging about, because we cannot understand why the MC is worthy of such affection and need a balance of power in some form

 

In Witch Craft Works, it is a heroic, stoic and powerful female knight who is trying to be a good 'prince' and protect a weak male MC who is asking to be taught magic but otherwise trying to be a good 'princess'

 

For those that say the OP is misogynistic, he comes off as an @sshole when angry and maybe chauvinistic, and you could joke about some philogynistic attributes, but I don't think he's misogynistic:  

• If the OP's problem is explicitly: 'Males must always be more manly and powerful than the females', then is it Chauvinism.  
• If the OP's problem is explicitly: 'Females are trash and must always be subservient to the males', then is it Misogyny.  
• If the OP's problem is explicitly: 'Females are goddesses and can only have a perfect man', then is it Philogyny.  

(No source, check for yourself, I might be wrong)

 

EDIT: Oops edit that, anyone who suggests punching a woman is not Philogynistic

 

I think romances in stories (romances in real life have no rules/balance) need a good 'balance of power' or 'balance of significance'.  This does not mean men must be as strong as the women are beautiful (that is straight out sexist).  People forget to include the huge variety/facets of this 'power' or 'significance' such as:

• Kindness from a local (male/female) eases the heart of a travelling battle hardened warrior (like a blade and its sheathe)  <---Protect and Worth Protecting
• The smothered royalty (male/female) hearts skips a beat due to the genuine carefree smile of a commoner  <--- 'Can buy anything' and 'Money can't buy (true) love'
• The strong (male/female) finds out the truth about the sacrifices/pain endured by the weak (male/female) done for his/her sake  <-- Physically strong and Mentally strong OR 'Doesn't know about love' and 'Madly in love'
• The seemingly perfect (male/female) and the only one who knows their true side/personality  <-- 'Share a secret' OR Tsundere and 'Its OK I know what you meant' OR 'I am perfect' and 'Haha! Perfect huh?'

 

Fair enough, when you rate a character very highly (like the OP has rated Kagari) then you want a highly rated partner for her

 

For me I think the MC does have this balance because in a world with magic he is kinda limited physically, but makes up for it by:

• Sacrifice (unlocking his seals to save Kagari and the city which dooms himself),
• He plays the straight-guy to Kagari's stoic comedy,
• He wants to learn magic (no gathering of courage here, just straight up teach me pls),
• The decisions he makes are idealistic but strong based on the information he has (I would rage if there was no downside to calling upon Evermillion and he still hesitated to do so, but he knows the downside and he doesn't hesitate)

 

In a story that the main source of conflict is magical battles then it is also fair enough that the OP would like the 'power' or 'significance' of the male MC to be directly usable in these battles.  I don't think that should be that important as this story has other's things going for it.  

 

He does however give Kagari power (most of her power is his own, or Evermillions), if he reduces this 'power feed' then Kagari will lose major fights and this 'power feed' is based upon him believing in her/not being weak, which is the direct opposite of the OP's argument.  

 

Probably the biggest initial difference that the OP's reading has from my own, is that the MC did something hugely noble/worthy/was chosen for a reason during their childhood that has been erased from their memory.  Having that first impression from the beginning makes you see the MC in a different light, which lets you read into what the MC is actually doing, and that Kagari's affections are justified.  He even asks why she bothers to care for him and it is because of a memory she cannot recall but knows it is significant.  I read it less as 'their minds have been tinkered with' and more as 'she chose to have her mind tinkered with along with him' because of something that happened in the past.  

 

Long post sorry, but I stand by Witch Craft Works and the MC, and will continue to give comments for other readers to help them avoid weak MCs and will still give my usual follow up saying "and not in a good way like Witch Craft Works"

Edited by easilyoffended, 12 July 2014 - 02:59 AM.

[MrAnarchist]

Can we please stop posting on this?

[Nightdragon]

Spoiler

Okay, I already posted a comment, and while I might just seem as a hater, which I am.
Hear me out on this, I'm sure some people will agree with me.
Also, I know the point of this thread is a rather pointless one since 95% of mangas have the same problem.

Let me just repost my comment here:

Ignore the hatred, if you possibly can.

I mean, how high must the authors must of been when they started this manga? No, when they planned this main character?
Honestly, I don't know this manga got published but it sure wasn't 20 years ago, where people could still be surprised at something.
In today's generation of high schoolers(I'm one) I can bet my arms and legs, about 99.99% wouldn't have been the pussy this guy is. Or as freaked/surprised about a building falling on top of him. BUT the moment he saw Kagari in a cloak and a pointy hat he should of though "Oh, witch, woah, witch! But know I sort of get it, there's witches in this world and she was having some fight maybe, I guess I got in the way, AND OH SHIT LET ME DOWN BITCH, WHAT THE FUCK, I'M A GUY." Why? Because, if she says it's a witch, with a broom in her hand, we already sort of know how she works and what her powers are.
And you know this as much as I do.
I understand he would be scared if he had to face a 4000 ton, fire-breathing, transforming, with the power of Goku, flying dragon. But he's not he is just fighting some girls, while being protected by one, which by the way is stronger than any he, whoops, "she" (since he hasn't done smack shit) has faced. So why the hell is he still being such a pussy? Someone please enlighten me.

I get right now he himself doesn't have much power, and all damage to him would be done to Kagari, but that's got nothing to do with when he acted like such a pussy on other occasions. For instance, when he was dueling with that delinquent chick, why didn't he hit her? Because you're a man? No, because you're a pussy.

P.S. I like this manga, I like the characters, the story, the art, the plot, I hate the protagonist though. A lot.

Alright, I'm done. Gotta believe that "Writing helps clear your anger" shit now.

Oh, for those that want to pull the "If you don't like it, don't read it card." This is for you; If there are no forms of criticism, ideas, opinions authors wouldn't even know what to write about that readers would enjoy.
In fact, no criticism, or different ideas and opinions would make this world so dull.
So, if you were gonna say that, shut it.

you know considering you have said, you where in highschool i'm going to say this, you know NOTHING of the real world and the people around you. And if you are in a highschool with more than 500 people, you know nothing of the people in your school. you may have seen them but your knowlegde base is too small.

 

you are a small fish in a small pond, wait till you leave your pond and go out into the real world to make a comment on how people 'are or aren't' IRL

I prefer to think that IDY's sexism is not a factor in his stories.



Yet I continue to see that as the only reason. Why couldn't he make another Unbalance x Unbalance?

probably because he almost didn't finsh the first Unbalance X Unbalance the first time around. IDY is extremely notorious for starting a story and then either completely ruining the story by the end or just not finshing the story at all. He has some great ideas, its just he can never fully follow though with them.

[MrAnarchist]

Can we please stop posting on this?

PLEASE

[Kokoro-chan]

cry some more. your tears are delicious. 

[s3bbi]

I'm the only one that get's some Shagukan no Shana vibes from this? I have the feeling the MC is somewhat close to Yuuji SAKAI and will change over the course of the manga.

[Zenith_Tempest]

I'll try to play both sides, here. There has to be a limit as to how wimpy any character is. They have to realize their weaknesses and resolve themselves to become stronger. And Takamiya has done that, so we can give him credit to that. Yet, this is where my argument differs. How long are you going to continuously write off your characters as weak before they become stronger? Take Shirou from FSN. He was told that he was weak, and he decided to have Saber train him because he didn't want to be a hindrance to his allies. Take Kenichi from HSDK. He hated that he was so easily pushed around, and asked Miu to help him learn to stand on his own. In both cases, the male MCs reached a level at which they could fight side by side. I honestly enjoy it when no party is weak. Look at Touko and Shiki in Kara no Kyoukai. They're very strong and clever. Kokutou isn't nearly as strong as them, but he isn't weak, and he makes up for it through his intelligence.
What I'm trying to say is there isn't a need for Takamiya to be weak anymore. He is capable of performing magic. He should be getting stronger and stronger. We've seen him improve, but that's come to a halt. We see his resolve-even though Kagari is invincible with him around, he hates the fact that she has to fight for him. My only question is when. The guy before me made a good reference. In Shakugan no Shana, Yuji was weak. But the pacing of his development was good. He started off with basic training, then flame control, and became extremely powerful. Yet ANOTHER example is Tsukune from Rosario Vampire. He started off as a weak human but by the end, was willing to push his now mutated body over its limits in order to protect the people who had protected him when he was weak. I guess this manga is trying to go in this direction, but it's just that we haven't seen the MC STOP being as wimpy. He has rare "cool" cases, but when the chapter ends he reverts to his regular self. That's what gets me down.