76 replies to this topic

[Wilson Wong]

What? Where is vishnu? D: chap 95...
or at least what's the element so I'm not totally clueless.

[Macha]

Visnu's "element" is Preservation. He's the God of Preservation and the one who created the names.

As for where he is, well, it's unknown. He's currently speculated to have destroyed his own body after having manipulated the flow of time for unknown reasons, and he won't be back in his physical form until the end of the Universe. Or he simply vanished to take a vacation 8D
(Can't recall if the part about the physical destruction is confirmed or just a speculation, though the rest still stands)

[themantarays]

No, where is Hoti and Bhavati Visnu? Do we know what the primeval gods' magics are?

Also, it was said that suras once had magic humans could use. You think that will come up later?

Edited by themantarays, 11 August 2012 - 09:03 PM.

[battradio]

After The N/O humans can no longer draw magics from the suras , right now the wiki's a bit messed up but this shoud give you some idea http://kubera.wikia.com/wiki/Calendar . http://kubera.wikia.com/wiki/Gods

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Edited by battradio, 12 August 2012 - 12:12 AM.

[cyborgmosquito]

After The N/O humans can no longer draw magics from the suras , right now the wiki's a bit messed up but this shoud give you some idea http://kubera.wikia.com/wiki/Calendar . http://kubera.wikia.com/wiki/Gods

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Spoiler

Shiva and Visnu magic also disappeared after the cataclysm, to be replaced Marut and Asvins respectively. however in a couple chapters Asha casts hoti Visnu, when the only available magic she would be able to cast should be hoti Brahma. Combined with when Asha changed the attributes of the fire barrier, it makes me wonder how far Asha can go with rewriting rules. Maybe she will use magics of other (non-12) gods and even sura later in the series. Or maybe it was just because the local space had weird dimensions?

Edited by cyborgmosquito, 12 August 2012 - 01:04 AM.

[Macha]

No, where is Hoti and Bhavati Visnu? Do we know what the primeval gods' magics are?

Also, it was said that suras once had magic humans could use. You think that will come up later?

Currently, Hoti and Bhavati Visnu aren't being used because the god responsible for that magic has vanished from the world. The magic has been replaced with Hoti and Bhavati Asvins, which is a sub-domain to Preservation.

[fiveseconds]

Asha is an exception. Asha is the exception to everything in the Kubera universe.

[themantarays]

Asha is an exception. Asha is the exception to everything in the Kubera universe.

Currently, Hoti and Bhavati Visnu aren't being used because the god responsible for that magic has vanished from the world. The magic has been replaced with Hoti and Bhavati Asvins, which is a sub-domain to Preservation.

Lol ok asha is an exception to everything. But can we still put the magic on the list?

[battradio]

It can be on the list we just do not know what does for sure .

[Macha]

Lol ok asha is an exception to everything. But can we still put the magic on the list?

Well, a magic which is supposed to be extinct, and is used only once, and off-screen nonetheless... I can agree on the fact we need to document this on the wiki, but everything about Hoti Visnu is a mystery, except for the fact that it apparently can be used even against Chaos Suras.

[Mizura]

Huh, summary of magic properties (the actual blog entries are more detailed. Like, too detailed for me to understand and Google Translate in full D: ). So anyway, it seems magic depends on 6 factors, and manifests in 6 properties.

1. Types of magic

Magic is divided into silent magic and word magic. The types of word magic are:

• Hoti magic: can be learned by anyone, though those with corresponding Attributes of Birthday can cast more often and have higher power multipliers to the spell. Mastery can increase the number of uses. (see table at the end)
• Bhavati magic: can only be learned by those with corresponding Attributes of Birthday. In addition, it has lower success rates compared to Hoti magic. Mastery can increase the number of uses.
• Idha Etu magic: this is used to summon a God. It occurs in 2 steps: First the summoner must break down the walls between dimensions. To accomplish this step, the summoner must satisfy 3 conditions: be of the corresponding triple attribute, use part of his life (the exact amount is a mystery), and third but unknown factor. Second, then the God must be available and choose to come. In the past, the God could use his own power to cross dimensions, but since the Cataclysm the summoner must use his own life, so Gods are no longer summoned as often as before.
• Fusion magic: the combination of two or more Hoti or Bhavati magic, resulting in a new effect.

(No information on silent magic apart from the fact that each attribute has 1 or 2 silent magic spells. I'm curious too...)

2. Factors

6 factors determine how good you are at using magic:

• Attribute of Birthday: determined by the month, day and hour of birth. It determines the availability of Bhavati magic, as well as silent magic.
• Divine Affinity: talent for magic. Although it's possible to increase divine affinity by meditation and mental discipline, it is mostly determined at birth. The impact of blood is pretty slim. Although there is no formula between Divine Affinity and Fiendish Affinity (Fiendish Affinity is the talent for borrowing power from Nastika), usually a person with over 1000 Divine Affinity will have a Fiendish Affinity of 0.
• Vigor: once vigor is depleted, you can't cast magic anymore. It can be restored faster by eating, sleeping and joyous emotions.
• Intelligence: the ability to quickly and accurately understand and visualize the spell. If you don't understand the theory, you can't use the spell. Magic requires an extensive knowledge of science, and the calculations depend on mathematics.
• Concentration: the ability to keep the mind from wandering.
• Mastery: increased mastery can increase the number of uses per day, as well as the variety of applications.

3. Properties

Magic use shows 6 properties:

• Number of uses per day: affected primarily by the Attribute of Birthday. The number of uses can increase with Mastery. This is limited by vigor. It is reset every day. (see table)
• Maximum power: the strength, duration and range of the spell. Limited by vigor. (see table and formula)
• Scope of application: intelligence and mastery will allow more sophisticated use of the spell. However, more complex magic also uses up more vigor.
• Accuracy: affected primarily by intelligence and concentration. Also depends somewhat on Divine Affinity.
• Conception time: the time it takes to visualize the spell. This depends on intelligence, concentration and mastery. Most spells depend on quick calculations, but some require more sophisticated theories that can be difficult to calculate calmly when in critical situations.
• Response time: how fast the spell takes effect. This is determined by the Attribute of Birthday and the Divine Affinity, but it can be reduced a bit through Concentration.

Attribute of Birthday: Number of Uses per day and multiplier for Maximum Power

• None: Uses = Hoti 1, Bhavati - ; Multiplier: Hoti x1, Bhavati -
• Single: Uses = Hoti 3, Bhavati 1; Multiplier: Hoti x2, Bhavati x1
• Double: Uses = Hoti 9, Bhavati 4; Multiplier: Hoti x4, Bhavati x3
• Triple: Uses = Hoti 27, Bhavati 16; Multiplier: Hoti x8, Bhavati x9

Maximum power = Divine Affinity x Attribute of Birthday multiplier
Example: a fire/fire/wind magician with 100 Divine Affinity will result in the following daily usage:
- Hoti Agni with max power of 400, and 3 casts of Bhavati Agni with a power of 300
- Hoti Vayu with max power of 200, and 1 cast of Bhavati Vayu with a power of 100

Why do I get the impression that this should already be available somewhere? Or did I leave it hanging in my notes too long? D:

Edited by Mizura, 15 August 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[Afdch]

Hello everyone. First of all, I'm sorry for my poor english. Second, I'm not sure where I must post this, will this thread do or the Kuberian Date system thread will suit better, but since it is gods-related information I think I’ll just leave it here. Or have I to create a new one? It's not that important, I think.
I've searched for some information on the gods and here's what I got.
My knowledge of the Hunduism is poorer than ignorance, but still. Some speculations.
In Hinduism there is such term as Lokapala - deities associated with the four cardinal directions - North, South, East and West. If we include combined directions (North-east etc.) and add Zenith and Nadir, we'll got total of 10 directions. All of them and the deities related to them are enlisted on the wiki Guardians of the Directions .
But what is strange - those deities are differ from one language to another in on the wiki. And here is what they say on the russian wiki.

Deity Direction
Kubera North
Soma North-east
Indra East
Surya South-east
Yama South
Agni South-west
Varuna West
Vayu North-west
Brahma Zenith
Vishnu Nadir
Shiva Center

Since Soma is strongly related to Chandra, if we would add Kali to the list as non-directional god, we're getting all kuberian gods in one set (putting Asvins and Maruts taking the place of Vishnu and Shiva aside - that is the story matter).
What would уou say?

Madskills enclosed.

Attached Files

•  Directions.PNG   16.5KB   10 downloads

[Macha]

Well, Currygom declared that the Indian names and powers she used are only loosely based on the gods and demons of Hindu tradition. I wouldn't think too deep about the matter.

[Arka]

Can Nastika or Astika use magic (though that's kind of pointless since magic is a weaker version of transcendentals)? Agni used magic back when he met Leez but actually he used a transcendental so... can they use magic?

[Mizura]

Agni never used magic. As you said, he pretend to, but he was using his own transcendentals (hence, the "suit's flame effects").

Magic involves borrowing the power of another being, and humans probably have a rule or agreement or something that allows them to borrow from Gods (and before, from Nastika). I kind of doubt this extends to other Nastika and Astika though. Also, we know for sure that Halfs can't use magic (just their own transcendentals), so I guess by extension we can deduce that Sura in general (including Nastika) don't borrow other beings' powers. (though, maybe it was only referring to magic from the Gods, and Halfs probably automatically have a divine affinity of zero. Dunno if Halfs could use fiendish magic, probably not though)

Edited by Mizura, 25 August 2012 - 12:52 PM.

[Arkeus]

Agni never used magic. As you said, he pretend to, but he was using his own transcendentals (hence, the "suit's flame effects").

Magic involves borrowing the power of another being, and humans probably have a rule or agreement or something that allows them to borrow from Gods (and before, from Nastika). I kind of doubt this extends to other Nastika and Astika though. Also, we know for sure that Halfs can't use magic (just their own transcendentals), so I guess by extension we can deduce that Sura in general (including Nastika) don't borrow other beings' powers. (though, maybe it was only referring to magic from the Gods, and Halfs probably automatically have a divine affinity of zero. Dunno if Halfs could use fiendish magic, probably not though)

I'd say it's possible they could, as quarter can use divine magic- so it's likely that Half can't use divine magic because their fiendish affinity is too high (we know a high divine affinity means you are very very likely to have a 0 fiendish one).

[Mizura]

I just realized that I could have just google translated the blog entry on Transcendentals. >.>;;; Here it is:

--
Just as humans have magic, Gods and Sura have Transcendental Skills. The magic of humans consists of borrowing part of the form of Transcendental Skills. Divine magic consists of casting a Transcendental Skill of Gods, whereas Fiendish magic (which no longer exists) cast the Transcendental skill of Sura (Nastika in particular). (not sure about the wording, but that's the general idea)

Casting magic consumes vigor, but using Transcendental Skills consumes one's own vigor. Because of this they require a lot more vigor than magic, so humans, whose vigor is tiny compared to Gods and Sura, cannot cast Transcendental Skills. Halfs have at least 50% Sura blood, so they have quite high vigor and Transcendental Values, so it is possible for them to use transcendentals.

Magic relies on 6 elements: Attribute of Birthday, Divine Affinity, Vigor, Intelligence, Concentration and Mastery. In the same way, Transcendental Skills require similar elements:

• Attribute: These are divided into 3 types: Race Attributes (for all Sura), Source Attributes (for Nastika and Gods) and Inherited Attributes (that non-Nastika Sura and Halfs inherit from their parents). These determine the Transcendental Skills they can use.
• Transcendental Value: Similar to the concept of Divine Affinity. However, whereas humans with low Divine Affinity can still cast a spell, Transcendental Skills have minimum requirements for Transcendental Values. The Transcendental Value of Gods and Nastika is fixed from the beginning and does not grow anymore. In other words, the Transcendental Skills they have available is fixed from the beginning. On the other hand, the Transcendental Value of non-Nastika Sura and Halfs can grow, so their Transcendental Skills can become stronger and more diverse.
• Vigor: Same concept as when using vigor for divine magic. However, since Transcendental Skills draw power from oneself, the vigor consumption is much higher. Also, the recovery method is also different. Humans can recover vigor from eating and sleeping. The vigor recovery speed for Gods and Nastika depends on the surrounding environment, but isn't helped by eating or sleeping. Non-Nastika Sura can only recover vigor from eating, with carnivorous diets being more efficient than vegetarian ones. Sleeping does not help. Halfs are mixed, so recovering through human ways such as sleeping and eating is possible, but eating meat is more efficient.
• Intelligence, Concentration, Mastery: The speed and accuracy of divine magic is affected by Intelligence, Concentration and Mastery. However, the speed and accuracy of Transcendental Skills are almost fixed, depending on the skill involved. The impact of Intelligence, Concentration and Mastery is negligible. The diversity of Transcendental Skills is mostly determined by the Transcendental Value, and determine everything else. Also, there is no limit to the number of times one can use Transcendental Skills. It is limited only by vigor.

--
There we go. If a Half has high enough Transcendental Value, it can use Transcendentals. Humans can't because their vigor is crap. And Nastika and Gods recover faster in the right environment, which was probably why Gandharva went to sulk in the deep oceans. Also, you can be a total bird-brain or idiot, and still pwn the hell out of everyone.

Wait, that explains Vritra...

Edit: Oh, and Unique Transcendentals:
--
There are many Transcendental Skills that can be used in common by Sura and Gods. For example, the skill Absolute Zero used by Gandharva can also be used by God Varuna, even other Gods and Sura. Basically, as long as one has the right Attribute and high enough Transcendental Value, anyone can learn these general Transcendental Skills (of course, Absolute Zero requires a quite high Transcendental Value).

On the other hand, there are Transcendental Skills that not anyone can use. For example, Fire Assimilation is a symbol of the Fire God Agni. Even Nastika with higher Transcendental Value cannot use this skill. Such skills are referred to as Unique Transcendental Skills, and cannot be acquired by others later on irrespective of their Transcendental Value.

Just because only one person can use it, it doesn't mean that Unique Transcendental Skills are stronger than general Transcendental Skills. The average Unique Transcendental Skill is stronger than the average general Transcendental Skill, but there are quite a number of general Transcendental Skills that surpass Unique Transcendental Skills (ex.: Nuclear). However, they're still considered special.

Gods and Nastika-level Sura use a variety of Unique Transcendental Skills. There are cases where Rakshasa have Unique Transcendental Skills, but they are quite rare. Maruna is such an example (I think it's saying that it's because he's the son of the First King of the Garuda clan, so basically there's lineage involved?)
--

Huh, so Gods and Nastika often use the same skills? That's kind of... I dunno, weird? Does that mean that Fiendish magic actually looked a lot like Divine magic?

Edited by Mizura, 27 August 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[Kreiri]

So what's the difference between casting from vigor and casting from own vigor?

Edited by Kreiri, 27 August 2012 - 03:31 AM.

[Mizura]

To be honest? Dunno, I'm having trouble with the output from Google Translate. D:

Basically I guess it's saying that it's more tiring to use one's own powers than to simply borrow someone else's powers.

Added the post about Unique Transcendentals, by the way.

Edited by Mizura, 27 August 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[Arkeus]

To be honest? Dunno, I'm having trouble with the output from Google Translate. D:

Basically I guess it's saying that it's more tiring to use one's own powers than to simply borrow someone else's powers.

Added the post about Unique Transcendentals, by the way.

Wouldn't it make sense if it is 'using one's life-force'? given that's what Ran was thinking of using?