Trebor

To be honest, this also seems to be an annoying problem (though I personally don't use the status update system that much). And I'd love to help, but I don't see any options on my end to be able to change it.

We're going to upgrade the forum from 3.2.x to 3.3.0 soon, so hopefully more options will be available.

And moved to Silly, Random & Off-topic (SRO) forum.

This section is for off-topic / spam discussions and posts.

This is distinguished from General Discussion, where actual conversations are attempted to be held, and Forum Games, which don't have discussion.

We will be enforcing rules here, however, rules regarding off-topic posts and "spam" posts will be relaxed, though true spam posts (e.g., advertising products) will be deleted. Other rules still apply. No flaming, trolling, personal attacks. This is not an exhaustive list of rules. We will be flexible and respond to situations accordingly; use common sense when posting.

If you have an issue with a thread, post, or user, please click the Report button below every post.

Titles are for fun and meaningless... I don't know why people care that much about a few bytes above their avatar photo.

I could totally change this with our new custom language pack!!!

Yessss. I totally changed it.

My totally non-biased system:

0-9: Non-regular
10-49: 1F Regular
50-99: 20F Regular
100-249: 50F Regular
250-499: 77F Regular
500-999: 100F Regular
1000-1999: Ranker
2000+: High Ranker
Trebor: Yuri Zahard

For reference, right now it's 0-9 Newbie, 10-29 Member, 30+ Advanced Member.

I actually have no problem with a new system. The old system was bland. Many forums have this, and I'm... sort of sure that the forum games posts don't count to titles.

Notes irony that this policy was made to prevent arguing over watermarks, yet arguing over watermarks breaks out in watermark policy thread.

Thread locked, posts deleted. Policy still effective.

Perhaps I should clarify a bit. I don't mean to be insulting or make people angry intentionally. (Though, if you're angry with my ideas or disagree with me, well, I can't do much about that)

For the first bolded comment, I don't believe Grumpy is planning on resizing the comics; he just wants to get some better compression without impacting quality. I could be wrong about this. So, I'll wait for Grumpy to clarify this point before I say any more.

For the second bolded comment, I think I may not have said this in the best way possible. I did not mean to say that users are dumb for having slow internet connections. I realize that people have slow connections or can't get good connections unless they spend lots of money. I'm saying that these people should lobby their government / ISPs to offer them better service, because it is inexcusable (on the part of the government / ISPs) that good internet isn't a right and necessary utility like how electricity and running water is (at least by Western standards). And if the users aren't asking for change, then it just won't happen (or will happen a lot slower).

Similarly, with the bit about scanlators, they are the ones doing the comic. We're limited in how much we can do (or how much we SHOULD do.). I don't think it's insulting at all to say that you should take some issues up to scanlators directly.

Batoto's vision is to present the comic as the author / scanlator intended it. That's one of our main principles.

As a matter of aesthetic principle, we don't want to participate into something that will degrade the quality of the comic.

And as a matter of respect to scanlators and authors, we don't want to degrade their work -- even if it is the users choosing it, we don't believe that we should be complicit in this.

At Batoto, we do things a bit differently; we're not driven by the desire to make money at all costs or to have the largest user base at all costs. If we wanted to do that, we would host all comics regardless of what the scanlators want. We don't believe in acceding to every user request. We have a vision and believe in it.

We are a neutral content host. If you have problems with the content, we believe you should contact the scanlators directly. if your internet is slow, we believe that you should lobby your government or ISP to provide you with better options. There is no reason that you should have slow connections (or fast connections at very expensive prices) in this era.

Hello everyone. I'm here to announce a slight change I just made to one of the settings for the forums.

Batoto has always had a rule against double/triple/multiple posting (posting multiple consecutive times in a row in the same thread). Some users have brought to our attention that other forums have a feature that collapses these multiple posts into one post.

Upon further inspection, we have found the setting that allows Batoto to replicate this. Effective immediately, any consecutive post made within 60 minutes of a previous post will be merged together.

We hope that this will help make it easier for our users to follow this rule and to enjoy the forums. (Note: It is still possible to double post, for example, 61 minutes after a previous post. This is still prohibited)

(Merged from Grumpy's original thread)

All the error messages given by the uploader is listed here. A description and potential solution follows.

An unknown URL format was given and could not be processed. Please make sure you are attaching a .zip or .rar file in http(s) or ftp.
This error only happens when you're using remote upload. Batoto can only accept direct links to a zip or rar file.
Note, address given by sites like depositfiles is NOT a "direct" link no matter how much of misuse of the term exists on the Internet... Link that points directly to the download file without any forwarding, proxy or webpage is a direct link.

Could not open the zip file. Please make sure that there's no password in it and that the zip file is not corrupted.
The zip file that was received cannot be opened. Archives that has passwords cannot be opened by the server. Conversely, archives may become corrupted during the upload. So, if it's not password protected, you can simply try to upload once more.
If the problem continues, please try re-archiving the zip file (extract and recompress) and try again.
Also, part files are also unacceptable.

An unknown extension of a file is given. Please only upload .zip or .rar files.
Batoto only accepts .zip and .rar formats. This does NOT includes extensions like .001 where it's separated into parts. 7z, .tar, etc are also not accepted.

The uploaded file: [filename] cannot be read.
You should technically never see this. But if it does occur, please just try again. If the problem persists, please report.

An unknown error has occurred. Exception: [and some more text]
Please report these errors with all the error message that you received. Thank you.

Upload failed. Please make sure all the required fields are selected correctly.
This only occurs when not all the required fields are set. Make sure you selected the group, comic, file, etc.

IOError
This is usually caused by flaky Internet connection. Please just try again.

Error 500 (and a mix of possibly some above)
There is a possibility that the upload occurs while the server is rebooting a certain service (ie due to update, bug fix, etc). This may cause an unexpected behavior. And there's really not much that can be done here. Just try again. lol If persists, report.

What are your rules?

Forum rules: http://www.batoto.ne...les-guidelines/
Rules for content hosting/uploading: https://www.batoto.ne...delines-and-policies/

Where do I go for help?

• Problems with the website itself / technical issues?
  • Technical issues with Batoto's website? Post in the Batoto Support Forum
  • Can't login with your account? Post in the Login Issues Forum (Guests ARE ALLOWED to post here!)
  • Problem with a forum post or a forum user? Click the Report button below every post.
• Problems with a comic?
  • Quality Control problem? E.g., pages not displaying properly, pages not sorted correctly, missing pages, missing chapters, etc.? Post in the Quality Assurance Forum
  • Problem with a scanlation group's hosting policy? Post in the Group Hosting Policy Forum
  • General comic hosting question not listed anywhere else? Post in the General Comic Hosting Forum (Make sure to look at the sticky threads -- Moderator/Community Pre-approval thread and Request a Comic to be Uploaded)
  • Do you want Contributor status? Post in the Contributor Request Forum

If you have issues viewing a comic, you should NOT leave comments on random parts of the forums or use the comments system on a comic's Comic Page. Issues with broken comics should go into the Quality Assurance (QA) forum. Other issues should be placed in their proper forum, or at least a good-faith effort should be made to find the correct forum. Comments will be IGNORED if they are not in their proper place.

You should NOT directly contact a staff member via PM unless it is absolutely necessary.

If you must, use the currently active staff list below and start at the lowest level that your complaint can be handled at (e.g., do not PM an administrator to ask them to fix a comic not displaying properly. Contribution Staff should handle that. Actually, you should not even be PMing Contribution Staff; rather, you should report the issue to QA forum).

Administrators
(Head Honchos)
Grumpy (Founder, Owner of Batoto, semi-active)
Trebor (semi-retired)
mhh
seyrine (Gameskeeper)

Contribution Staff
(Comic Hosting, Uploading, Quality Assurance Issues, Any comic related issues)
KidCongo *
Sality
Loki
powha
Electromaster
AcidWeb (Focus Polish)
Seraphic Mist
Naizumi
Gendalph (Focus Russian)
Everath
Daktyl

Mako (Focus Spanish)

Makiavel (Focus French)

Matteo Fabbretti (Focus Italian)

 
Forum Moderators
(Batoto Forums, Comic Forums, Any forum or member related issues)
Dafortminor *
Maia (Focus Role Playing Forums)
themantarays (Focus Comic Forums)
ROTFLMAOMAGNETS * (General Forums, "Self-appointed PR Mod")

Subpyro (General Forums)
 
Retired / Semi-retired / Hiatus / Floating in the ether
Colour (General)
CrazyRed98 (Global mod)
101010 (Tower of God)
Thunder Wolf (General)
SoundSpark (Contribution)
Lenaloo (Focus Spanish)
Riku Noctis (Contrib Mod Focus Spanish)
* Denotes experienced staff who have been promoted to global moderators in addition to other duties

For egregious conduct that threatened the stability of our users, not following our rules, and disrespect for other users and mods, Fenrill's posting ability has been suspended indefinitely. It will be restored once we have received an apology letter from him.

For all Somemanga refugees: this is not Somemanga. Our rules are located here: http://vatoto.com/forums/forum-118/announcement-2-rules-guidelines/ We do not expect that you will understand everything immediately, but we do expect that you read the rules, be respectful and do not post dozens of posts with hundreds of animated gifs (which is part of what Fenrill did).

We will apply these rules to everyone as fairly as we can.

Thank you and we hope that you enjoy stay.

-Trebor, writing for the whole Batoto team

When the rules mention harmful watermarks, do offensive images count such as Japanzai's watermark of Jesus?

Despite the watermark disappearing, the image still flashes across the screen for a short while and can be seen by many. We have no idea of telling the religion of each reader and any religious watermark is just asking for flames from the readers. It reiterate, any religious watermark could be seen as offensive to readers of that particular religion. I doubt Batoto would allow a racist watermark, so why should a watermark mocking religion be any different?

I'm asking this because it seems to be a more complex issue than, "flashing bright yellow images or 100 MB files."

Question presented: Does a scanlator watermark in a chapter which incorporates religious symbols qualify as a "harm" to users which will necessitate that chapter's removal from Batoto?

Short answer: No. Consistent with Batoto's principles of freedom of expression, conflicting viewpoints exposed to our users do not constitute a harm. Harm in this context is a high bar to pass in which actual or likely harm to the user or user's computer must be present.

Analysis: A scanlator using a watermark which incorporates Jesus is not a harm to our users, because this falls under the general concepts of respect for scanlator's opinions, freedom of expression, and openness, all of which are concepts which Batoto embraces.

Freedom of expression is a principle which is necessarily always at tension between the rights of those expressing an opinion and the rights of those being expressed to. Just because someone, somewhere, is offended by what one says or does does not give us cause to censor them. The concept of freedom of expression would be toothless and meaningless if we have to censor what one says just because of one person's complaint.

The idea that the mere imagery Jesus could be offensive is not a concept that Batoto can uphold.

First, the question assumes that the watermark is "mocking religion." But such interpretations are up to each individual person as to whether they are mocking or not. Moreover, if we set the precedent that "all watermarks mocking religion must be banned," we would then have to engage in time-consuming analysis of every watermark. What is mocking? What is not? Because of the philosophical concerns regarding the impossibility of clearing articulating a standard of what is or is not a mocking/offensive use of religion and the practical problem of employing enough manpower to moderate these watermarks, this argument must fall.

Secondly, there is no assertion of harm. The argument proposed tacitly admits to this: "any religious watermark could be seen as offensive." (emphasis added). This is not an assertion of clear harm. It is clear to me that some, perhaps many, do not find the watermarks to be offensive. And it is also probably true that someone, somewhere, is offended. But we cannot use such a standard with no limiting principle. Harm must be articulated before they can be redressed. Moreover, even if it was proved beyond a reasonable doubt that a majority of users would be offended, it is not certain whether we would censor such a mark, consistent with our freedom of expression principle. See, e.g., the existence of the KKK (protected under freedom of speech even though their ideas are offensive to many). Moreover, just because religion is being mocked doesn't mean that freedom of expression stops. See, e.g., the Danish Muhammad cartoons controversy (where Danish cartoonist who published cartoons depicting Allah, against the tenets of Islam, was condemned by many practicing Muslims but widely upheld as a valid exercise in freedom of speech). This argument seems to be a roundabout way of removing Japanzai's watermarks rather than showing any real offense. Because a harm was not asserted, and even if it was, would have been trumped by freedom of expression, this argument must fall.

Finally, the restrictiveness of the position offered (to ban all watermarks with religion) is unacceptable. The idea that no watermark, ever, could incorporate religious symbols is intolerable to the idea of freedom of expression. For substantially the same reasons as point two above, this argument must fall.

Harm requires something more than mere sensibilities of some users from an image not intentionally or knowingly directed at those users. It must be actual or likely harm to the user or user's computer. The harm to users contemplated here is something that causes actual physical discomfort, such as flashing images.

It is important to note that this advisory opinion is limited only to the idea of religious symbols being used in watermarks. The question of offensive images, such as goatse or tubgirl, or religious imagery being used in a patently offensive manner, such as Jesus's face on tubgirl, being inserted into a watermark does not present itself with this question. We express no opinion about these questions until an actual case presents itself with more facts.

The harm that will effect removal of a scanlator's work is a high bar to pass. This is the reason why the examples given in the policy appears to be clear cut.

Background

We understand that scanlators have somewhat recently started watermarking their comics using more aggressive techniques than the traditional small logo or credits page. These techniques range from the simple (plastering entire comics with watermarks) to using new techniques (such as the animated image).

We understand that these techniques are the result of other manga readers (e.g., MangaFox) putting comics up against the scanlators' wishes or violating their delay policies. Worse yet, sometimes credits/credit pages were removed. In the most extreme cases, other comic readers (e.g., MangaFox) aggressively photoshopped out scanlators' watermarks, logos, and messages.

These heavy-handed watermarks were in response to these provocations.

Batoto's policy on watermarks

However, it is important to understand Batoto's role in all of this. Batoto does not support nor oppose these watermarks, as long as they are not harmful to our site or our readers; a non-exhaustive list of examples of harmful watermarks would be flashing bright yellow images or 100 MB files.

Batoto's overriding principle is to respect scanlators. In our view, respecting scanlators means following their policies and allowing them to post up whatever comics as they wish on our site, as long as it is not harmful to our site or our readers.

It's important to reiterate that we are a neutral content hoster. We do not create any comics, we only host them. We are not affiliated with these watermarks or scanlation groups in any relevant sense. Obviously, we are affiliated with some scanlation groups because they participate in our ad share program and we may know people from these groups in other contexts, but we do not direct or encourage (or discourage) them to put in watermarks, though, of course, we encourage them to use Batoto.

However, though we are not affiliated with these watermarks, they are being uploaded to Batoto, and it would be prudent of us to give you, our readers, some general comments on them. These are general comments; any specific questions about watermarks should be directed to the group that made the comic.

Why watermarks?

This question is beyond our ability to fully and completely answer, as you will have to ask each individual scanlator why they watermark the way they do.

However, I can tell you why scanlators are choosing this particular vector of watermarks (e.g., animated gifs and PNGs). Batoto, which supports scanlators in as wide a manner as possible, allows all types of images in their uncompressed form. Other readers, in this regard, are inferior and unable to display these animated watermarks correctly. So, this incentivizes readers to read on Batoto or the scanlator's site (because it can be viewed properly) but not on other readers. The wisdom of this policy is not for us to judge: this is a mere recitation of facts.

It is important to note, however, that even on Batoto, to view some of these animated watermarks properly, you need the latest up-to-date version of your browser. Batoto only fully-supports modern, up-to-date, desktop browsers. Though we try our best to support every browser, older browsers may not support some Batoto features or, as here, features that the scanlators put in. And while we do not do anything specifically to hamper viewing on other devices, we do NOT officially support phones, tablets, PS3s, toasters, or microwaves. Though, if it works, power to them.

Animated watermarks? What are those?

Animated watermarks are animated images with watermarks on them. That is, the image moves; it is exactly the same technology as a picture of a moving lolcat. Typically the image has the watermark for less than a second, then it will disappear.

Are there technical issues I should be aware about?

Yes.

1. The watermark disappears (typically) less than one second after the image is fully loaded. If you have a slow Internet connection, your image might take a long time to load, and therefore, you will be able to see the watermark. Just wait and it should go away.

2. Some watermarks are animated gifs, which is a very old and widely accepted standard, supported by all modern browsers. Some newer animated watermarks are animated PNGs, which is a newer standard that is currently natively supported on Mozilla FireFox and Opera, but not Google Chrome. To view these properly on Chrome, you will need this Chrome Extension: https://chrome.googl...goaeamnpckdbblp

 

Edit: Opera now requires addonas well since it has adopted the Webkit engine.

APNGs are is just flat out not supported in Internet Explorer.

Batoto's policy on future threads/comments regarding watermarks

Threads/comments regarding watermarks have a high potential to turn into heated arguments regarding the scanlator's policy. Often times, the scanlators themselves weigh in and argue with users.

But from our perspective, there is not much to discuss.

Scanlators have decided to watermark their comics. We respect that decision.

In that respect, there really is not much to discuss about watermarks on Batoto.

Thus, new threads complaining about specific watermarks will be summarily closed on sight. You may direct complaints to the scanlator's website or scanlator's forums; actual problems with watermarks not displaying properly can be directed to the QA forums ("It doesn't work for me and I refuse to install a new browser," however, is not an actual problem); you may discuss watermarks generally in the general forums.