19 replies to this topic

[Pillamelai]

I mean, I'm not very well-versed in the art of feministic pop analisys, but the way they treat Suiren as a trophy is so unsubtle and, let's be frank, sickening... What's the deal if she has a boyfriend? They don't even know her. Plus, normally you'd be happy if a person you care for has a fulfilling romantic life.
I bet all the boys will be angry at the male protagonist when their relation is exposed. "Oh, you are making the idol of our cult happy. How dare you?!" -___-
I'm going to keep on reading just to see Seiren's friends talk some sense into them. And because their relation is supercute and they are totally made for each other. >___<

[dragonk1ller]

Welcome to the manga world... and enjoy it

Edited by CrazyRed98, 19 November 2012 - 05:14 AM.
language

[Pillamelai]

So, it seems his best friend took it surprisingly well... I was wrong, I suppose. Sorry.

[Purple Library Guy]

This "cult of the high school superstar" thing seems to be pretty widespread in manga . . . no idea if it happens in real life in Japanese high schools. And it tends to be weirdly possessive--it always seems to be "We've all given up so we'll all be in the same boat, so we can't have her/him. And if we can't, nobody can!" The person is supposed to remain an object of worship, actually available to nobody, but in theory potentially available to anyone, so that all the worshippers can daydream about the possibility. Like the infinitesimal difference between having bought a lottery ticket and not having bought one--it won't let you win the lottery, but it does legitimize your daydreams about winning the lottery.
There's some indication in manga about showbiz idols that the Japanese fans often have similar hostile reactions to the idols being seen to have significant others. Quite a contrast to the Western fans' prurient interest in celebrity goings on, to the point where I understand celebrities will make up romantic/sexual complications just for the publicity.

[Sootopolis]

It's exactly as PLG says. Remember "Kazehaya is everyone's" in Kimi ni Todoke? For a real life example, this brings to mind what happened to poor Mamoru Miyano. (He's an incredibly famous seiyu, voicing, among many others, Death Note's Yagami Light, and Vampire Knight's Zero and Ichiru). Not only does he have a dreamy voice but he's handsome too. Some of his Japanese "fans" reacted in a horribly hostile way when he announced his plans to get married - death threats included *shudder*

[MelisaArtemis]

I agree its sad and sickening but the fact is that it also happens in real life. I had seen it happen first hand to one of my female friend in high school, she was pretty, smart, athletic and friendly which makes sense that she becomes popular. But at some point, somehow people (especially boys) starts putting her on pedestal, the males especially become hostile at the thought of anyone else becoming her boyfriend regardless of the actual person's personal feeling. In the end she had to transfer to another all girl's school because she couldn't take it anymore.

[Purple Library Guy]

Huh, for real! Poor kid.
Well, there we go. If it happens in real life at all, it probably happens in real life in Japan.

[noctemleya]

Well, I'm late to the discussion, but actually girls get objectified like this a lot in real life. Of course, the more popular they are the more it happens.

 

Admiration might seem like something everyone wants, but usually if you're cute/beautiful or just well-shaped you get much more than what anyone would wish. Having people staring at you wherever you go is incredibly uncomfortable and it gets worse when you can't have a normal night out with your friends without people hitting on you. Most suitors will come after you only out of sexual attraction, not caring exactly what kind of person you are, just seeing that "you look good". I won't even try to breach the topic of catcalling and street harassment...

Our society is so focused on looks that you get instantly judged by most people depending on what you look like. She looks like a supermodel, she's probably dumb. She looks easy, she's a total slut. He's so unkept he's probably a jobless loser. It seems that no matter what you look like, you never get entirely accepted by others without prejudices or false preconceptions.

 

It really is irritating to read about this kind of overfond idolization, but as Sootopolis and Purple Library Guy said it's something that actually happens a lot in Japan. I guess it's a good thing authors actually talk about it and kinda criticize it in manga. Discussion is the first step towards change.

[meikuan]

But I don't think this manga is glorifying how females gets objectified. Like we see the repercussions of it on Suiren.

[Orenji-kun]

Honestly, I love this manga so much because it does the opposite of that, it shows a couple that fell for each other because of their personalities and fell even more as they got to know each other. Kawasumi looked past her beauty and saw her delicate and sweet personality, and Suiren saw how kind and caring he is hidden behind his shyness. To top it off, they fight their flaws to get closer to each other, and their hard work pays off.

 

It shows the narrow mindedness of most guys that I see way too often, further fueled by mob mentality, and the harm they cause both in Suiren's past and as they start dating. It's painful to watch people look for traits like physical beauty and confidence, which are great and all, but they aren't nearly as valuable as being considerate, caring, or emotionally deep. They get swept up in the fantasy that you'll live happily ever after if you find someone pretty enough or confident enough, and they are fine with deluding themselves or just not caring about having a real relationship and just do whatever they feel like doing.

 

It just warms my heart to see such a vanilla romance and that there are plenty of people that feel the same about relationships and love.

[The Queen ♛]

----------------------
♥ ♥ ♥
Ah,that's life.
Just about how someone is ''everyone's'' people tend to overreact
and act way over the top (lol which is basically the same, kind of)

Like for example and idol everyone loves and some ''praises''
just gets married or gets a girlfriend/boyfriend, of course
the people who care (too much caring) for the idol would even go
as far to threaten the person he/she is dating.

-nods-
People are weird these days.
♥ ♥ ♥
----------------------

[Eilanzer]

this manga is strange for me...I think the plot is just sick and goes nowhere... and i kinda hate the two mc´s boring puppy love...But i still keep reading because of the secondary characters o.o

 

it was the same with Kimi ni Todoke...God the problem with these main characters is lack of a good slap during childhood ¬¬

(this manga need a character that kick the ass of the mc´s every time that one of them stay silent and retarded, THAT would be the absolute friend!)

[Ixiaz]

This "cult of the high school superstar" thing seems to be pretty widespread in manga . . . no idea if it happens in real life in Japanese high schools. And it tends to be weirdly possessive--it always seems to be "We've all given up so we'll all be in the same boat, so we can't have her/him. And if we can't, nobody can!" The person is supposed to remain an object of worship, actually available to nobody, but in theory potentially available to anyone, so that all the worshippers can daydream about the possibility. Like the infinitesimal difference between having bought a lottery ticket and not having bought one--it won't let you win the lottery, but it does legitimize your daydreams about winning the lottery.
There's some indication in manga about showbiz idols that the Japanese fans often have similar hostile reactions to the idols being seen to have significant others. Quite a contrast to the Western fans' prurient interest in celebrity goings on, to the point where I understand celebrities will make up romantic/sexual complications just for the publicity.

 

That is what the entire Idol business in Japan is built upon, and to some degree well known female actors/seiyuu/models etc etc. If they get their relationships exposed the fanboys will brew up a shitstorm. If it's a male however his female fans will stalk, threaten and bother his girlfriend cause she's not "good enough for him". While slightly exaggerated in manga and anime, I think it reflects certain aspects of Japanese society. Somehow it always ends up being the girls fault. 

Edited by Ixiaz, 18 April 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[twitch8twitch]

While mostly seen by me as a concept in manga, though it does carry over to real life, you do have to hate those people that obsess over the ideal that they see in a person/character only to be angry when they break from that ideal because no one is absolutely perfect.

 

I sympathize with people, especially actors who have to deal with that. For example, a few years ago I walked into the room while TMZ was on and saw a showing of Twilight fans chasing

Robert Pattinson down the street calling after him only I then realized that they weren't calling his name they were screaming for Edward. 

I felt so bad for him.

[MelisaArtemis]

this manga is strange for me...I think the plot is just sick and goes nowhere... and i kinda hate the two mc´s boring puppy love...But i still keep reading because of the secondary characters o.o

 

it was the same with Kimi ni Todoke...God the problem with these main characters is lack of a good slap during childhood ¬¬

(this manga need a character that kick the ass of the mc´s every time that one of them stay silent and retarded, THAT would be the absolute friend!)

 

Well, if you're not into it then just drop it and move along. This manga doesn't cater to everyone's taste and I personally likes it just so. imo, compared to those other shoujo romance manga that is filled by love triangle or even love square with mcs who can't decide who they should end up with, I'd prefer something like this manga with (sweet) boring puppy love as you call it.

 

You said the plot is sick yet it happens more common in real life than you probably think, popularity is as much a curse than a blessing to people who doesn't want them to begin with. Others might think its so nice to be popular but they tend to forget that for people who are excessively popular, they would do ANYTHING to lose it.

[merkkari]

This might be a bit off-topic but I would like to see this manga end with the mc breaking up with the boyfriend and then maybe cutting her hair or have some other dramatic change to her style, so that she can brush off those disgusting drooling monkeys (aka the fanboys). Let her have her sweet first love ending in sadness and then through that the story could change into the mc's awesome empowering, or something like that... hehe.

 

I don't know... Just lately I've noticed that many mangas (and books also) construct the manga around the mc and their "soulmate", in which it's not a manga about the mc anymore but a manga of her/him having her "perfect" relationship with the "perfect" guy/girl. And that's not usually how real relationships work. Is it really too much to ask to have at least some nice, sweet, humorous AND REALISTIC mangas/stories/books/etc?

 

All in all, I want Suiren's character to grow! (Not just see their relationship to bloom or whatever...)

Edited by merkkari, 05 August 2014 - 04:03 PM.

[Vueiy]

This might be a bit off-topic but I would like to see this manga end with the mc breaking up with the boyfriend and then maybe cutting her hair or have some other dramatic change to her style, so that she can brush off those disgusting drooling monkeys (aka the fanboys). Let her have her sweet first love ending in sadness and then through that the story could change into the mc's awesome empowering, or something like that... hehe.

 

I don't know... Just lately I've noticed that many mangas (and books also) construct the manga around the mc and their "soulmate", in which it's not a manga about the mc anymore but a manga of her/him having her "perfect" relationship with the "perfect" guy/girl. And that's not usually how real relationships work. Is it really too much to ask to have at least some nice, sweet, humorous AND REALISTIC mangas/stories/books/etc?

 

All in all, I want Suiren's character to grow! (Not just see their relationship to bloom or whatever...)

Wow.  You want her to have heartbreak, sorrow, and regrets?  Just search under the "tragedy" tag; I'm sure there's plenty to suit your...unique tastes.

Personally, I enjoy a sweet story without all the everyday corruption and degradation of relationships you can see in the real world (babies out of wedlock, adultery, etc.).  Two people who genuinely like each other for who they are, and at such a young age...the world could use some more of that.

 

Back to the original topic, though, the boys' objectification of Suiren is pretty disgusting.  None of them love her; they essentially worship her as an idol.  They set her on a pedestal (as a flower on a high mountain), and (essentially) decided for her that if they can't have her, no one can...only none have gone full yandere on her, fortunately.  It all boils down to possessiveness and jealousy.  Ugly, ugly jealousy.

[merkkari]

Wow.  You want her to have heartbreak, sorrow, and regrets?  Just search under the "tragedy" tag; I'm sure there's plenty to suit your...unique tastes.

 

I don't really enjoy tragedy in itself, but instead the moment when a person rises up from her/his misery in one way or another. Basically I like the feelings of victory and if there isn't a little bit of misery behind it, it just isn't the same. But maybe I will check out the tragedy tag if they have some good empowering stories.  

 

PS. I wish everything well for Suiren, but life ain't that easy, yo.

[KaazaLite]

It's exactly as PLG says. Remember "Kazehaya is everyone's" in Kimi ni Todoke? For a real life example, this brings to mind what happened to poor Mamoru Miyano. (He's an incredibly famous seiyu, voicing, among many others, Death Note's Yagami Light, and Vampire Knight's Zero and Ichiru). Not only does he have a dreamy voice but he's handsome too. Some of his Japanese "fans" reacted in a horribly hostile way when he announced his plans to get married - death threats included *shudder*

That's not entirely true. America has its fair share of overzealous and possessive fans too, especially among the female fans. Women are whack jobs.

 

And celebrities who go out of their way to create scandals only want attention to their dying reputation. People already know that they're sluts and their fans don't really see them in romantic or "pure" way anyways. For example, take Britney Spears back in the days. She was the type of idol who serve as the daydream of horny teenage/lonely men everywhere, if she had had a known relationship back then, her career would had been over just like that.

 

Mamoru Miyano has a sexy voice? I won't pretend to be an expert on the sexiness of a man's voice but I think it had to do more with him voicing many estrogen bait characters and mostly cuz, as you said, he is a good looking guy. I think his most skillfully done role is Okabe from Steins Gate but since Okabe is not an estrogen bait character, you won't hear many girl gawking over him.

This "cult of the high school superstar" thing seems to be pretty widespread in manga . . . no idea if it happens in real life in Japanese high schools. And it tends to be weirdly possessive--it always seems to be "We've all given up so we'll all be in the same boat, so we can't have her/him. And if we can't, nobody can!" The person is supposed to remain an object of worship, actually available to nobody, but in theory potentially available to anyone, so that all the worshippers can daydream about the possibility. Like the infinitesimal difference between having bought a lottery ticket and not having bought one--it won't let you win the lottery, but it does legitimize your daydreams about winning the lottery.
There's some indication in manga about showbiz idols that the Japanese fans often have similar hostile reactions to the idols being seen to have significant others. Quite a contrast to the Western fans' prurient interest in celebrity goings on, to the point where I understand celebrities will make up romantic/sexual complications just for the publicity.

I've noticed its only really widespread in shojo. The concept of the "school idol" or "most popular boy in school" is widespread in pretty much every manga yes, but mainly only in shojo do they turn into a cult that outburst at her/his every move and becomes hostile (sometimes to ridiculous degrees) at her/his romantic prospect. I've heard that females tend to display these acts of jealousy more than males but I can't say if such things really happen in real life or not. I'm sure there are minor instances of such cases though cuz I've seen plenty of jealous women.

Edited by KaazaLite, 08 September 2014 - 11:13 PM.

[MelisaArtemis]

Kaaza, things in this manga actually does happen in real life more than you think. I already mention in my post up there about someone that I know in real life experiencing the same thing as Suiren in this manga. Jealousy is not a gender-specific thing, it goes for both male and female especially during the age where puberty is at its peak(middle to high school age coincidentally). They might not be as extreme as in this manga (This is a manga, its fiction.) but can you really say that there is no such thing as "Fangirls" and "Fanboys" at school when it comes to fellow students who are seen as "Perfect"? Girls would flock unders boys they find very attractive while boys would leer and flock to the girls they find pretty or cute.

 

I will concede the point that the concept of "School idol" or "School prince / princess" is more widespread in the Shoujo manga culture but I ask you, what do you expect? Shoujo manga means just that, a manga directed toward females. We females generally have much less interest in action-based manga than guys, just like guys would have much less interest in romance, that is simply how it is. When the majority of the subgenre are stories with romance as the major point, what do you expect from it? A fat girl who use magic to turn pretty and share kamehameha like confetti?