6 replies to this topic

[rage bunny]

I re-read Noblesse from first chapter, and I think it's interesting to sort out the past events. Because it's interesting... and confusing. I'm sorry if someone already point it out, I only check the other topics quick and I guess it not yet disscussed.

Each character blabbering the past events (the Noble, specially). Some from their own opinion and knowledge, which may true and may false. It also should be note that not everything about the past revealed yet in the story, yet when I tie all information which already known, some things doesn't make sense or there may more than one incident happen in the past. It may because mis-translation, and the not-yet-revealed plot.

Anyway, I write here because currently I have too much free time. Please correct me if there's mistake. I also gave my theory and asumption (*).

Note:
1. Frankenstein who conduct ramen experiment said the current time is 2010 (chapter 154).
2. Total 13 clan leaders, 6 of them betrayed the previous lord (chapter 190), one of them known as Roctis Kravei.
3. I'm not too sure where I should put Roctis...


< 1190
1. Some Noble/Clan Leader act on their own about mutant. The mutant destroyed human villages. (chapter 239)
* This may cause Frankenstein loath the noble who think highly themselves and abused their power so much. Like Raul, for example.
2. Frankenstein gone to Lukedonia, met Gejutel K. Landegre (clan leader) and Ragar Kretia (clan leader). (chapter 240)
3. Frankenstein met Rai and become his butler (chapter 244)
* What an anti-klimax, I expected something epic but I guess that's the best thing could happen if your master is Rai.
* Actually, Frankenstein fashion was too odd for the current era :p He looks like from 19 century.
4. Human organization already exist.
* A lot. There's one specially mention with 11 members (leader?), I assume that was Union. (chapter 10)

± 1190 aka the 820 years ago
1. Something happen in Lukedonia, Rai release his power to defend himself and gone sleep/dissappear. (chapter 236)
* Murder attempt??
2. Roctis Kravei tried to murder Rai. (chapter 235)
* I always think the time Roctis attacked Rai is the same with his treachery/the clan leaders treachery... which looks so wrong because it happen 500 years ago not 820 years ago (beside, how the murder attempt could happen if Rai never even there 500 years ago?). And I don't think his position was safe if the murder attempt happened so he must be failed and gone for good thus betrayed Lukedonia on his own at this time OR
* His action only known/believed by Frankenstein only and Roctis still in Lukedonia. Thus making Frankenstein wish to looking his master on his own because he can't trust the nobles. (chapter 159)

1190 - 1510
1. The Nobles looking for Rai.
2. Frankenstein talk to Gejutel about his distrust to nobles, his wish to dissappear and looking his master on his own. (chapter 159)
* Frankenstein didn't know about (previous) Lord's eternal sleep, so I assume it must be before the-500-years-ago.
* Frankenstein seems strongly believe than nobles are corrupt, but some still hold their dignity. (chapter 108) This may because Roctis and/or the mutants he killed which caused by the corrupt nobles/clan leaders (chapter 243), since he doesn't know about what happen after the lord's sleep before ask Gejutel himself (about the clan leaders' treachery). (chapter 159)

± 1570 aka the 540 years ago
1. The Union found research journal. (chapter 140)

± 1510 aka the 500 years ago
1. The Lord (Raskreia's father) gone eternal sleep and Raskreia become the lord. (chapter 160)
2. Some clan leader's join the Lord
* One is Ragar Kertia, maybe...
3. Some noble/clan leaders betrayed Lukedonia. (chapter 174 & 175) Roctis Kravei is one of them. (chapter 235)
* I assume it was linked with the human organization (Union?) and they seems join them if we see how Raskreia despise it so much.
* But it looks like no one knew Roctis is part of Union now. (chapter 238)
* Frankenstein also said that Roctis attempted to murder Rai. It was impossible if happen at this time since Rai already gone. Some possibilities are Roctis already gone before and come again to conduct the treachery, OR his murder attemped towards Rai only known/believed by Frankenstein and he still with Lukedonia before betrayed them for real.
4. Raskreia accused Rai as the one who leads the treachery because the traitors close to him and betrayed Lukedonia after his dissapereance. The fact that he was sleep since ± 300 years ago unknown to her. (chapter 184)

± 1880 aka 130 years ago
1. Dr. Crombell found research diary written by 'F'.(chapter 140)
* F for Frankenstein. Who else? I wonder if the writer links him with Mary Shelley. Let's say, they met in early 17 century and he inspired her to write horror story for competition :p

± 1910
1. Seira become the clan leader. (chapter 158)
* Seira is currently 217 years old and Regis 199. Assume that the nobles conceived like human, Seira & Regis' parents must be still alive before that, so:
2. This is the time when the previous Loyard's clan leader & Regis' father already dead because human's trap (Union?). (chapter 164)
* Really, I always thought they become traitor or gone eternal sleep... but Seira & Regis too young for that and looks like Regis father never become clan leader (Gejutel still hold the position as Landegre's Leader).
* I wonder the trap Raul means confrontation between Union and Lukedonia. (chapter 253)
* I wonder if THAT time Union already got aid from the traitor nobles. Because if we looking their abilities (especially, Seira father the clan leader), they couldn't get killed easy unless the former and traitor clan leaders are their opponent, whether they known by Lukedonia or act behind scene.

± 2000
1. Rael proposed Seira and rejected :p He was confined for 10 years. (chapter 164)

± 2010
1. Rai woke up in coffin belongs to Union.
* But until now, no one in Union, including Crombel, talk about the lost coffin. I wonder who order M-21 and M-24 to get the coffin back? Who smuggled it first? (chapter 11)
2. The ceremony of 500th the previous lord's anniversary.
3. Current event.

Whew... :D

Edited by misukoniro, 26 October 2012 - 01:38 PM.

[strixflash]

I think you are somewhat confused about the treachery part.~
The six traitor leaders were followers of Rai who also attempted to murder him 820 years ago.(Chapter 220). No one knew about this event. Many assumed that either Rai just disappeared or he hided himself. No one doubted any nobles except Franky who said he cant trust them. (Well Rai was the only existence which prevented nobles from abusing their powers)

During the next 320 years,Roctis and other traitors showed no suspicious movements and they even agreed to enter eternal sleep with lord and the other leaders.But at the final moments they declined (alongside Gejutel--->Old Lord's order), and Old Lord respected their wish. During the confusion(caused due to eternal sleep of Lord) traitor made their move and betrayed current Lord while making her believe that Rai was their leader.(This way they used him).

-----
About formation of Union-
Its not shown when Roctis joined Union. Maybe during those 320 years he founded Union or maybe he joined the Union later on.
While there is mentioning of Human organizations (Chapter 239) in the past,its not necessarily the current Union.

Edited by strixflash, 27 October 2012 - 05:36 AM.

[Urek Mazino]

I hold the belief that when Roctis attempted to murder Rai, the other traitor clan leaders helped him (which is why Rai had to use so much power, Roctis alone doesn't seem to warrant it), so traitor clan leaders would've feigned ignorance to what happened to Rai, possibly thinking he's dead, and then 320 years later they betrayed the current Lord (the previous Lord and Rai were both out of the picture at this point, so the betrayal could go ahead under the safest conditions for the traitor clan leaders). Just my thoughts, also among them is the belief that Elders 1-6 are the traitor clan leaders (that's with the assumption that the 1st Elder is the strongest and the 12th the weakest, no comment on Crombel). I'd assume the traitor clan leaders are stronger than the enhanced humans (Union enhancements are derived from some of Frankenstein's data (and he seems to know that), so I'll assume they're weaker than him, Gejutel stated one of the previous clan leaders would've had difficulty but they would've been able to kill Frankenstein alone). If the traitor clan leaders are indeed within the union I wouldn't be surprised if like the 12th elder the other elders are contracted to the traitor clan leaders. Finally I leave you with the question that troubles me, what happened the the traitor clan leaders clan members?
Disclaimer: My wall of text is not fact, just my thoughts and opinions.

It is nice to see a timeline of events though

[rage bunny]

@strixflash @urek mazino Thank you ^^ The chapters are very long. Important information about the past is scattered randomly and could easily forgotten.

Yes, indeed ^^ There some possibilities but I guess the murder attempt towards Rai was unknown is the most possible plot. If that known well Roctis' position will not safe at 820 years ago. When you said they used him... now I remember. It could be that. I mean, the murder attempt must likely to killed Rai or shut him down whatsoever because he is the only one who can stop them. So 320 years later, the treachery will be smooth and (quite) safe without Rai's intervention. They also could use his name as the treachery leader since he already gone.

I also curious about Union. I belief Roctis joined instead founded. But who knows? If Roctis and the traitors ware the person who disturb human world (the time Frankenstein go to Lukedonia first time and told Gejutel & Ragnar about his suspicon towards corrupt nobles), then maybe he is the founder...

About chapter 239 (<1990) yeah, it's not necessarily. From what I get there was a lot of 'human organization' in the past. But seems in the present, the human organization is referred to Union only. I hope there will be another human organization in the future...

About the 6 traitors clan leader. In my opinion, I don't think all of them become the Elder... but again, who knows? But if that true... poor Rai ^^;

Finally I leave you with the question that troubles me, what happened the the traitor clan leaders clan members?

I wonder that too! ))
If they were gone with their leader, Rai and friends are doomed =w= Regis still child, and M-21, Takeo & Tao can't match them.
Even if the traitors' member clan did not betray the Lord and still in Lukedonia, looks like their title was striped/they can't become the leader since there only 7 clans left now.

I wonder about Raul too (there's a topic about him, though) although I think it is impossible if he join the Union since he despise human so much and has very high self-esteem.

[Urek Mazino]

Yeah Rael has too much pride to join the union, I mean he was going to kill M-21 just for being enhanced. I kind of agree about the traitor clans, if they didn't leave their clan was likely stripped of their status. I do have another thought, we've seen the Dark Spear try and devour Frankenstein because the souls in it hold resentment of him, so I wonder if this would be the same for the traitor clan leaders and their soul weapons.

[strixflash]

OAll the traitor leaders were involved in the incident which took place 820 years ago. (Chapter 220)
Frankenstein mentioned only Roctis as he was the topic of discussion(12th Elder) at that time. His reply will be same for every other traitor leaders. And well I am sure other traitors would have shown the same affection as Roctis in the past as they were Rai's dollowers....It just happened that it was Roctis at that time.
Well all six of them are alive (All the info. till chapter 220 points to that).
Now the question is what they are doing? Are others also part of Union? Or just Roctis joined Union because of internal conflict? Or maybe they appointed Roctis in Union so they can have some control over Union?

Oops! Forgot to say~Good job Misukoniro.
(Finally Noblesse Forum is somewhat active!)

Edited by strixflash, 29 October 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[Urek Mazino]

I want this forum active I have no one to discuss Noblesse with haha, and ToG's on break for 2 weeks so I'll probably go insane from lack of discussion >_<