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Latest Chapter Discussion - Why not?


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#1
Comadrin

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I thought, since this is ongoing, and has some interesting developments in each of the chapters posted so far, that it ought to have its' own "latest" thread.

It's interesting and well written, and I'm enjoying reading it. It doesn't follow much of a "poor girl/rich guy" storyline that I expected from the genre and description, and the characters are realistic and not totally stereotyped (although the Dad comes close). I also like the way the male mc teaches lessons (esp. the one to her Dad), while still learning things from her as well.

So far, it's been definitely worth reading. I look forward to more chapters.

Edited by Comadrin, 13 October 2012 - 09:24 AM.


#2
Comadrin

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Well, after chapters 6 and 7, both of the business partners ended up acting like total dickweeds. The partner tries to buy off the girl that he thinks isn't good enough for his friend, then the other one dumps her services and overtime and tells her to get lost after she is forced into a social situation where she basically achieves his business goals far better than he could have done alone. I am glad she didn't take the 10 million yen, but she's basically treated as trash by both of them. Sad commentary on the human race. Money and economic acumen sure doesn't spell class.

#3
inzaratha

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I think he realized he was falling for her and backed off or maybe because of what his partner did. But yeah, she did well at the party with him and I think he really needs her.

I think it's a really good manga though, it has like financial and social advice ( with him showing her how to pay off her debt and him helping with her dad's gambling problem) and real life stuff, I like the mc' s personality way more than most girls or women in manga, she is much more real, down to earth and has common sense and is hard working. He kept testing her in the beginning and she passed all his tests. But she shouldn't have said that she wanted to reduce her hours and stuff either, I think he liked spending time with her. Maybe he doesn't want their to be gossip too.

Edited by inzaratha, 30 December 2012 - 11:43 PM.


#4
Comadrin

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Good points. Maybe she shouldn't have said she wanted to reduce her hours, but she was about to work herself right into the hospital, if I remember rightly, and that would have put her back into debt. I think you're right about him cutting it off when he felt like he was falling for her, as he seems to be the kind of person who would run for his life on discovering what his business philosophy would regard as a "weakness." Like you, I really like the mc. She has spunk, dedication, and integrity, but not a single-minded obsession with getting richer. She's quite a complex and interesting character, and the mangaka has her acting in a consistent and believable manner.

Edited by Comadrin, 31 December 2012 - 08:18 PM.


#5
inzaratha

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OMG Just read ch 8 - I haven't been that surprised about something in a manga in a long time - it will make you re-think everything you thought about the last couple of chapters and the reasons why the people said and did what they did. Like completely...

#6
Comadrin

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Yeah. A lot of stuff falls into place with the latest chapter. I guessed what was up as soon as he yelled, "Don't touch me!" I stopped at an accident about four years ago, and a young man was bleeding from an arm injury and didn't want anyone to touch him, as he was HIV positive. My buddy and I still worked to stop the bleeding, as it was the artery in his upper arm, and he could easily have bled out. I was pretty nervous, but both our tests came back negative. We started carrying latex gloves in our survey truck after that, as well as an airway for resuscitation.

#7
inzaratha

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Yeah, I just did not see that coming as the reason they were pushing her away at all, and then I had to go back and rethink some of the things that they said and the reasons he was keeping people at a distance and the other partner's reasons for telling her to stay away, cause naturally they would not want people knowing he was positive or it could like really hurt their business and stuff too ( like the way stock share prices will go down if someone is sick or demages a companies rep).

Well he seems healthy at least for now...

Edited by inzaratha, 07 January 2013 - 08:33 AM.


#8
Purple Library Guy

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Pretty decent. Since I don't normally like this kind of poor girl-rich asshole story, I really wouldn't have given it a second look if it hadn't been for Comadrin saying it's good here. But yeah, I'm liking it quite well.

#9
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Chapter 10. Ye gods, her father shows up on the doorstep, announcing his precious daughter can't be with a man unless he is there to protect her. He is nauseous, and I am nauseated. It makes me think of a recent case of a women of 25, who won, after taxes, about $120,000 on a game show. She was overjoyed at the thought of being able to pay off most of her college loans (4 years plus a master's) in our troubled economy, when her family (parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins) showed up on her doorstep with lists of all the expensive things she should buy for them, and this was after working her way through college completely on her own. Her reply was, "Here's the URL for the website to get on the gameshow. Goodbye!" Damn, I'm all for extending the helping hand, but why are the laziest, stingiest deadbeats in the world the first to play the guilt trip game and demand largesse as their right? They also have the unmitigated hypocrisy to attempt the moral high ground.

#10
inzaratha

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Especially since he is the primary cause of her poverty and her having to drop out of school since he's a deadbeat and a gambling addict.

#11
Purple Library Guy

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Heh. Funny thing is, that seems to work all the way up and down the income ladder. Even with the rich, it's always the ones who inherited their money, skip out on their bills when they can and don't tip that will be the loudest about how it's all about meritocracy and think the rest of us should pay more taxes to make up for their privilege to be deadbeats and sock more away in the Caiman Isl . . . uh, create jobs. The ones that genuinely did get somewhere with smarts, like Buffett, are more likely to be willing to pull their freight.

Certainly for me, if I had stacks o' cash, the people who hassled me for some of it would be the ones who didn't get any. Luckily my family's pretty polite about that kind of thing. Unluckily I'm not very likely to have any stacks o' cash any time soon. Not unless I finish my largely unmarketable novel and it somehow bestsells--for the likelihood of which, see "unmarketable".

#12
inzaratha

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Since I've experienced both extremes in my own life, having being both very rich and very poor at different points myself and having very rich family members, I have no jealousy about it and no allusions that money makes people happy nor does it prevent unhappiness or sickness or death or problems. I grew up to know it from the inside but I've been starving artist poor too.
But yeah, I'm totally in the same boat about needing to finish my own unmarketable novel that I've been writing for years, that is when I actually do write or draw instead of reading manga after work. lol

Anyway I think it was cool that he was giving them good business advice both to the mc and her friends even though he comes off as a jerk while doing it, the things he is telling them are sound.

I was a bit worried at the end of the chapter, seems like someone wants to do him in by messing with his meds.....???

Edited by inzaratha, 20 January 2013 - 02:10 AM.


#13
Comadrin

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Heh. Funny thing is, that seems to work all the way up and down the income ladder. Even with the rich, it's always the ones who inherited their money, skip out on their bills when they can and don't tip that will be the loudest about how it's all about meritocracy and think the rest of us should pay more taxes to make up for their privilege to be deadbeats and sock more away in the Caiman Isl . . . uh, create jobs. The ones that genuinely did get somewhere with smarts, like Buffett, are more likely to be willing to pull their freight.


Oh boy! If that doesn't say it all. I guess I am a member of the lazy, feckless 47% so tellingly described in a recent U.S. presidential campaign (although, strangely enough, some of the virtuous, hardworking 53% apparently didn't vote for their champion, as seen by the results of the election). For perhaps the most telling portrayal of the sense of entitlement of the "privileged class," one should read John Dickson Carr's 1950 novel, "The Bride of Newgate." Although set among the upper class during the English Regency period, it isn't a fluffy romance about blushing debutantes and wealthy bishounen peers living their "deserved" idyllic life of passion. It has a lot information on the misery that allows the wealthy to pursue their conspicuous consumption, pay for their multi-million dollar weddings, establish private clubs above Johnstown Dams, and buy politicians to their heart's content.

The entertainment media is a complicit ally of the rich and entitled, as wedding shows and rich lifestyle shows, as well as many serials and movies glorify the "good life" of huge parties, gambling (being a "high roller" is soooo sexy), $100,000 cars, insanely luxurious vacation, et cetera ad nauseam. Mass market publishing (i.e. Harlequin type stuff) promulgate the idea to the (semi) literate that passion with a septillionaire is the greatest thing life can hold. The rich and entitled use other venues to create a popular base to back their schemes to stay at the status quo of inequality, such as religion, patriotism, individual rights (I still have trouble understanding how someone on a fixed income, living in a trailer park thinks supporting the super wealthy helps them with their rights), and any other schtick their PR legions can think up.

Of course, convincing the poor or relatively poor to support the plutocrats is nothing new. In the Roman Republic, the senatorial (patrician) class convinced the urban poor to be complicit and actively aid in the murders of the Brothers Gracchi. They pretty much used the bread and circuses carrot to do this. The great political crime of these brothers was to try and limit how much land a single person could own, since a handful of patricians owned nearly all the arable land in Italy. In this day and age, it seems like a certain proportion of the poor and the economic middle class don't even have to be bribed by bread and circuses. It seems as though there are people who can barely feed their families who grieve over the tragic fate of Bernie Madhoff and Kenny Lay, thinking they were victims of President Obama's secret communism, and continue to hero-worship and politically support someone whose monthly cigar bill would feed a family of four for a year.

Of course, keeping a populace ignorant is the goal of anyone who wants to keep a grossly unequal power/economic system in a stasis. If you teach them to disregard science because the Bible says earth was created less than 10,000 years ago (it doesn't) or global warming doesn't exist because Congressman Pantzarov and Senator Ben Dover DePage says so, with a bunch of gee-whiz graphs and visual aids to "prove" it, you will have a populace whose critical thinking skills are nil, and go through life as the perfect mark for home shopping networks, ponzi schemes, crooked credit brokers, and the wonderful "entitled" rich people who want to remain that way if it takes the sweat, health, blood, and destruction of the "common" people.

The foregoing diatribe does not mean that I am a communist, pure socialist, or disciple of Maximillian Robespierre. I think that people like Warren Buffet, Dave Thomas, and even Bill Gates (I am not a fan-boy, disapprove of much of his methodology, and continue to use Mac products) contribute far more to our society and to humanity as a whole than 99% of the entitled "golden boys" of our civilization. I do not despise family or inheritance, but I have seen "entitled" people sweep serious crimes under the rug, be forgiven for any and all transgressions, and given "opportunities to excel" that peon schmucks, no matter their qualifications and hard work, don't get. As a serviceman (and an officer, at times), I noticed general's sons arrive at a military unit. The red carpet was rolled out for these "shave-tail" 2nd lieutenants, and field grade officers a good twenty years older than them spoke deferentially to them as though they were the crown prince of the country. Most of us "peons" who rose up from the enlisted ranks (although not all, as there are plenty of aristocracy wannabe bootlickers for this type) referred to them as 2nd lieutenants deep selected for four stars. In the military, the phenomena was referred to (by us loser, maverick types) as the "Bubba Club." You played by their rules, and you got ahead. (Please don't take this as a blanket indictment of the US military, they have a mission I generally agree with, and it is, for the most part, a good learning experience for young men and women [exceptions to this can be found in many places].) Getting out of the military (at 45) I assumed I would find a workplace dominated by the evil profit motive, where efficiency, hard work, and intelligence would triumph. To quote my sister, "Haw, haw! What a chump!" A civilian "Bubba Club," nepotism, and fear of clever people permeated this world as well. I had thought that "work harder and you rock the boat" was limited to the former Soviet regime. (Time for a chorus of "Haw, haw! What a chump!) It ain't a metitocracy out there! If I had to give it a name, I'd call it a "stasisocracy." Even in mid-level businesses, they want it to stay the same, with people who don't work hard, but continue to bring in OK profits. It's kind of like having purveyors of whatever to the aristos on the eve of the French Revolution. As a result, many of these "mom and pop" medium level companies will fold, while holding to the principles of the "entitled" type. At "upper-middle-class," they have no more critical thinking abilities than the "trailer trash" (not my appellation) who support the super rich as role models and heroes.

That is what I like about this manga. It supports the fact that the system is broken and changing. Not that many companies have huge retirement plans and benefits anymore (except for senior management), and while the company these two "presidents" run doesn't have these things, they are willing to let the "peonage" know, and educate them. The manga is a pretty decent wake up call about our society and its' business practices, and how the worker bees are left in ignorance until the axe falls on them, whether through illness (no decent health plan, or it isn't in effect if you miss xxx days of work), economic downturn (our company, with its' wonderful benefits just shut its' door, and our pension, health benefits and 401K we've been paying into isn't worth anything), or just outright fraud from someone (the retirement plan you've been paying into is gone, and was cashed by the former CEO who is now living in a palace in Burkina Faso). I especially like the mangaka's decision to not give the two presidents a butt load of charisma, a quality I mistrust, almost to hating it. They come across as cold, confrontative, and zero-tolerance (they aren't, just critical, which is a quality really needed [in its' purest sense] in our workplace today). Yet, they are willing to educate people, albeit in a rather tough love sort of way, which is far more than than I ever heard from most of the "hearty, bluff, and PR developed 'buddy' technique" executives I have come across. In the military, the finest Commanding Officers I ever served under did not have "charisma" to any great extent (I spent 22 years doing it). The ones who possessed real charisma, as well as the ones who worked at being "hail fellow well met," were almost always only concerned with their own careers and advancing themselves. The ones who really cared about their subordinates, their job, and the Marine Corps mission, were somewhat introverted, came across as slightly cold, bookish, calculating, and clumsy in dealing with others. They were not loved by their subordinates while they commanded (remember, most of this was in peacetime). They were, however, appreciated and greatly missed when the "hail fellow well met" extrovert ruined the unit when his "everyone's friend" image was found out to be all image and no substance.

Uh, I guess that I am a diatribalist after all. For some reason, this manga, combined with the great comments it generates, got me up onto a soapbox. Hope I don't annoy someone into accusing me of dredging up the stone age again!

-inzaratha- I started this comment before yours was posted, and read it after I hit "post." You too hit the nail on the head like PLG. Sorry my comment/diatribe is so verbose!!

Edited by Comadrin, 20 January 2013 - 06:13 AM.


#14
inzaratha

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I'm more impressed by the courage of both mc's. Haruki's courage to tell about his illness and her courage to love despite all obstacles. I think the author is saying that being "rich" is more about how you live you life fully and with love rather than about money, but yes at the same time saying that wealth can help you defeat things while poverty can drag you down. But he made his wealth because he was a workaholic trying to get the money to overcome his illness - he was not born with it - he worked hard for it but wants others to do well too, it's not like he wants to keep it exclusively for himself or hoard it - he will show others ways they can build their money or make their life better.

#15
Comadrin

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-inzaratha- Good take on it in your last post. Kind of like the aphorism, "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he can eat for the rest of his life." Her father, however, is more like "Teach him how to fish and he'll lay in a boat and drink beer all day long."

#16
inzaratha

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Comadrin - Good point about her dad, yes he is definitely that type. They figured out about his meds, I hope in time to turn it back around for him since his health was already being affected by it. I liked his speech and I think he was really motivating people.

#17
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I liked his speech as well. It's a good thing he listened to her and spoke accordingly, rather than giving the stereotypical speech for a "businessman's fundraiser" that the audience would expect. If you're passionate about something, and trying to convince others, typical platitudes will only convince those who are already passionate about the subject. To convince the unconvinced, you need to go a little further. (Just look at the recent political campaigns.)

#18
Comadrin

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Wow, after several months, we get the last three chapters in a single day.  I have to say that I really enjoyed the manga.  With the flashback to the time Haruki was infected, we can better understand both him and Takemoto (his business partner).  Losing his professorship over a sabotaged thesis is quite enough to make him into a rather cynical person.  Having known a number of graduate students and professors, I have definitely come across an awful lot of more than sleazy conduct when it comes to grad school and tenure competition. One of the most common was burning a top student's lab locker to ruin his GPA and cut down on the competition for med school.  Things like that tend to make a person really cynical about humanity.  It's just good that Takemoto didn't become cynical to the point of acting like those types.

 

I thought the ending was pretty touching, especially with the temp worker who saved Haruki's life ending up in the upper echelon of the company.  It was definitely a "feel good" story and ending, but it wasn't fluffy and brainless, and it didn't try to hide the ugliness in real life.  Some posters have complained about the art, but comic art is a much bigger arena than cookie-cutter, moe cuteness and huge breasts.  Fujiwara Akira put together a really good product in this story.



#19
inzaratha

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Yes that side chapter gave a lot of insight more into Takemoto and their relationship and how they became partners,  he really helped save him.     Yeah,  I can definitely see people sabotaging the competition.    I was really worried there that he wasn't going to make it and she would just register the certificate for him to die,  glad he fought through it.    I liked his partner more later in the story too where I didn't like him in the beginning and then I really respected him. 

'

I really loved this one for it's depth.    I don't see why anyone would be complaining about the art,  I really liked it too.    I can't stand the really comicy looking ones or the moe ones  they just look stupid to me,  so to each their own.