5 replies to this topic

[daikun]

I was just thinking if it would be possible to start off an evil corporation like that to trick money and stuff. I know manga often defies real world logic but liar game is one of those mangas where logic does apply.

The biggest problem I think of making money this way is enforcing the winner to pay back half their earnings. For those who haven't worked it out, most of the time, its you win what the other guy loses, so it's just distributing wealth among two or more people

Person A Lose x dollars
Person B. Gain x/2 dollars
Evil corporation Gain x/2 dollars

Of course there are times where the corporation can cheat money through other methods I guess. But the thing is this, can you actually force the winner to pay back their winnings legally?

Let's look at the first game. Consider that both players are given a certain amount of cash from the corporation. I'm thinking that it's like a loan that the corporation has the right to take back. Now let's assume, neither player has stolen any money from each other, yet one player gambles it all away on roulette or BJ or accidentally burns their house down along with the money or something. The player instantly acquires a debt of 100 mill, while the other person gains a debt of 50 mill (because she must've "won" 100 mill, because the other guy lost money).

But that doesn't really work. If I'm a loan shark/bank or whatever, what other bankees/clients do are unrelated to me and my debt doesn't just increase like that (well I does because of interest which is a different story).

Any flaws to what I'm saying and/or remedies to this?

[rongngungay]

I disagree with u
First of all, the true power of LGC is that it is legal, any one who opens the box will automatically agree with all conditions of the game, so if winners don't pay, they will be real swindlers, police will go after them.
Secondly, LGC will never cheat on player, as stated at early of the manga, they just fine players by rules, or take money back by game rule.

[Neko-no-Yume]

Warning: Block of text.

Now let's assume, neither player has stolen any money from each other, yet one player gambles it all away on roulette or BJ or accidentally burns their house down along with the money or something. The player instantly acquires a debt of 100 mill, while the other person gains a debt of 50 mill (because she must've "won" 100 mill, because the other guy lost money).

But that doesn't really work. If I'm a loan shark/bank or whatever, what other bankees/clients do are unrelated to me and my debt doesn't just increase like that (well I does because of interest which is a different story).

Even if Player A has lost 100 mil in a house fire, Player B has not gained any money in any way. In this case wouldn't Player B get +/-0; they are neither a winner nor a loser. When the game ends, Player B will return the 100 mil to LGT and he would drop out of the game. Meanwhile, Player A is still in a debt of -100 mil because that money has to rightfully returned to LGT. But because it was their money from the start, they don't get anything out of it. They're just waiting for Player B to return the money.

In the end:
Player A: -100 mil
Player B: +/-0 mil
LGT: +/0 mil

Only Player A loses. LGT and Player B do not win or lose anything.

The biggest problem I think of making money this way is enforcing the winner to pay back half their earnings. For those who haven't worked it out, most of the time, its you win what the other guy loses, so it's just distributing wealth among two or more people

You only have to pay back half your winnings if you wish to drop out of the game.

So taking the first game for example, say Player X wins 24 mil from Player Y; currently the standings are:

Player X: +24 mil
Player Y: -24 mil
LGT: +/-0 mil

Now that the game has ended, Player X can choose to either, a.) continue playing the Liar Game, or, b.) return half their winnings to drop out.

If Player X chooses to do choice a.), then the situation would just repeat until Player X ultimately loses. If Player X won enough from previous games, then Player X would have lost nothing, or even walked away with some extra money. In the first case:

Round 1
Player X: +24 mil
Player Y: -24 mil
LGT: +/-0
Round 2
Player X: -24 mil (+24 mil prev. winnings) = +/-0
Player Z: +24mil (+__ prev winnings)
LGT: +24 mil

LGT collects 100 mil back from each of the players. Player Z has an additional 24 mil that he keeps, while Player X is now 24 mil short. Player X pays with his own money that he won in the previous round. LGT wins.


In the second case where Player X lost less in the second round than he won in the first round:

Round 1
[see above]
Round 2
Player X: -22 mil (+24 mil prev winnings) = +2 mil
Player Z: +22 mil (+__ prev winnings)
LGT: +22 mil

LGT wins for the same reasons as I stated above. The only difference is. in this case, Player X would still walk out of it with money. But because that money was out of his own pocket, he is still a loser. Essentially thinking about it in terms of only the first round:

Player X: +2 mil
Player Y: -24 mil
LGT: +22 mil


I guess what I'm trying to say is, not matter what, LGT will still get something out of this (looking at the first round rules only, later rounds where they give out more than they take is different).


Moving on, if, after winning the first round, Player X decides to drop out, then he would return half of his winnings to LGT.

Player X: +24 mil -12 mil = +12 mil
Player Y: -24 mil
LGT: +/-0 +12 mil = +12 mil

Player X has a net gain of +12 mil and then other 12 mil he won is now returned to LGT who also has a net gain of + 12 mil now. LGT wins again.

Of course there are times where the corporation can cheat money through other methods I guess. But the thing is this, can you actually force the winner to pay back their winnings legally?

I'm not all too familiar with law [that's an understatement. I'm not familiar with law at all. I'm lawless hahaha.] but from what I know, assume, and interpret, opening the box of money is like signing a contract and agreeing to join the tournament. Once you enter the tournament you may not leave in the middle of it. You may only leave after the round has been over. But because you won the tournament, you have been automatically sent to the next round. To leave the round you have to pay back half of what you won as a sort of cancellation fee. Or, well, at least that's how I see it.



(I warned you...)

Edited by Neko-no-Yume, 24 October 2012 - 03:47 AM.

[Metroidhunter32]

When it comes to the legality, the problem is that the contract in unenforcable. Under US law (don't know about other countries) all gambling is illegal unless specified under state law. Since only a few of the games would qualify (ex. poker if the LGT got the right license) for the most part, the contract of "open if you want to compete" is attempting to enforce illegal activity, and thus has no legal standing to be enforced. Thus, the LGT does not have a legal claim to recovering its money.

BTW, I know the manga is set in Japan, but I don't know what its laws are regarding contracts.

[Pillamelai]

Plus, you know, tricking people into contracts, stating abusive clauses even if the victim agrees to them, or forcing people to sell their bodies, is illegal no matter what. Even if they did manage to put a gigantic debt on normal people, those people could always declare themselves bankrupt, and that's that.

Let's face it: this manga's setting is silly. If you want to start a slave business, one way to do it is to trick women from Russia or other Western European countries into emigrating; then, you'll tell them they have to work off their debt. It's a dumb pretence, but you can pull it off with lots of abuse on people far away from their homeland. For instance, http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/24/world/europe/spain-prostitution-tattoo/index.html

But I guess the OP is looking for something more glamorous.

Edited by Pillamelai, 21 December 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[Thurhame]

It's true, it's not really legally enforcible. Akiyama even points this out in chapter 7; "Legally speaking, this card is nonsense." However, I believe the idea is that the organization has enough influence they don't need to worry about the legality of it, or else is operating only with the people they managed to trick into coming back like Kanzaki.

 

As far as what Metroidhunter and Pillamelai said, I have no idea what Japan's laws on gambling or bankruptcy are. I imagine Kanzaki doesn't know much either.