86 replies to this topic

[Sieg]

Some scanlators or subbing-groups are arrogant jerks, that think you should bow down to them, because they're translating the manga for you, and that you should be extremely thankful to them for doing such a "tiresome" thing. Some wont release things before people donate, etc.

You're pretty much doing the same thing they are, not thinking things through.

You can't expect everyone to assume that MF, the site that gives them a place where they can read manga, is doing something bad, just because of some random watermarks and similar things.

I might not be making any sense, since I'm dumb, but whatever.

[KidCongo]

The problem with that request is, that the forums are heavily edited, and discussing the topic is basically forbidden, but here's a quote from a post in the Sekirei forum, that hasn't been removed yet:

"Yah I have heard of a few that hate mangafox, the question I have, is why?"

"Because they're making money with it. For some obscure reason the scanlators think the manga are their property and they deserve credit for them. Despite the fact that they're doing the exact same thing as sites such as mangafox do. But they claim they're doing it just because of their love for manga and not to make "profits" or get "fame. Yet they don't act like it at all.
It's like a fight between two thieves. One breaks into an house and steals all kind of stuff while claiming he's Robin Hood and doing it for the poor. The other one simply steals the stuff from the first thief without saying anything at all."

Edited by KidCongo, 25 November 2011 - 12:25 AM.

[coolxal]

Reminds me of the stoptazmo threads and credit pages...

So how does Batoto keep up with server and bandwidth costs with no ads and uncompressed (or not re-re-re-compressed) images?

[Trebor]

Reminds me of the stoptazmo threads and credit pages...

So how does Batoto keep up with server and bandwidth costs with no ads and uncompressed (or not re-re-re-compressed) images?

Because we do have ads. We just allow scanlators to share in the portion that they contributed.

[Graeystone]

Because we do have ads. We just allow scanlators to share in the portion that they contributed.

Ad clicking I get for revenue whether its to keep the site going with domain charges, keeping hardware/bandwidth up, etc and even splitting some of the revenue with the groups.
What MF does/did is remove credit pages. I think that was the beginning of the #@$#storm between scan/translation groups and MF. Now there is DragonFly Scans. . .who has 'scans' that share some similar traits to the cleaned up raws that Manga Stream uses. . .and MS pays for their own weekly scans(Naruto, Bleach, etc) instead of going for the RAWs that are put out for anyone to grab.

[Souldrake]

http://forums.mangaf...l=1#post8201368

Remind people in your troll posts that here, clearly, the mod states that threads regarding the fact that a chapter is fake are not permitted on their forums, too.

Edited by Souldrake, 25 November 2011 - 11:40 PM.

[Finlay]

O.o I didn't know it ran that deeply .

[Sieg]

Ad clicking I get for revenue whether its to keep the site going with domain charges, keeping hardware/bandwidth up, etc and even splitting some of the revenue with the groups.
What MF does/did is remove credit pages. I think that was the beginning of the #@$#storm between scan/translation groups and MF. Now there is DragonFly Scans. . .who has 'scans' that share some similar traits to the cleaned up raws that Manga Stream uses. . .and MS pays for their own weekly scans(Naruto, Bleach, etc) instead of going for the RAWs that are put out for anyone to grab.

I don't get the creditpagesthingy. Every manga I've read on MF has had just those. That's the reason I even know the name of several scan-teams. Could you direct me to one of those mangas without? Just had to comment on it.

[Weaper]

I don't get the creditpagesthingy. Every manga I've read on MF has had just those. That's the reason I even know the name of several scan-teams. Could you direct me to one of those mangas without? Just had to comment on it.

here http://www.mangafox.com/manga/sun_ken_rock/v14/c088/1.html

[Sieg]

when did the scanlators ever think that the manga is their property???
the person that wrote that on the Sekirei forum is really funny. he doesn´t know anything but just has to say his own opinion.

Like you are right now? :< Even scanlators can be greedy, awful people.

[hero]

Like you are right now? :< Even scanlators can be greedy, awful people.

the one on the Sekirei forum did so as would all the scanlators pretend that the manga is their property.
the majority of scanlators aren´t greedy or anything, they just want to share the manga with other people.

@Vaygr: do you have a grudge against scanlator????

[coolxal]

the one on the Sekirei forum did so as would all the scanlators pretend that the manga is their property.
the majority of scanlators aren´t greedy or anything, they just want to share the manga with other people.

@Vaygr: do you have a grudge against scanlator????

Actually some do. I distinctly remember a certain shoujo manga group (a few other groups too though) that had at least a dozen "active" projects at once. Some of their projects were on hiatus for months if not a year. When another group decided to take up the project for the fans, they started bitching and raising a fuss on their website and IRC cause they were the first ones to work on it so they owned the "rights" to it. You need to ask for their permission to do it and of course they refused since they "own" it.

[Souldrake]

That is more like the old honor code more than "ownership". When scanlating was fairly young, it was considered really impolite to start scanning another group's series without at least asking and getting a nod from them. I am of that way of thinking, after all, and I would hope others would at least pay me that amount of mutual respect back. Which is to say, I will not even consider taking a project being done by another group unless: 1) it is officially dropped. 2) we have offered to help and or take the project and have been given permission to do so. Months is a little tricky to go on for an inactivity date-- some times a series does take that long to get through the scanlation process just because the chapters are so long. And heaven forbid something happens and one of the people working on it gets busy. (a situation with one of our series right now... and if I had someone else who could clean it, I would ask them but no one has responded to our cleaner recruitment advertisements.) A year? Now that I would no longer really consider active. I kind of like MU's breakdown of 6 months being considered inactive, personally.

The overall attitude of this has changed a lot with speed scans and readers who just don't care about the quality of the work and just want the next chapter nao! So these days, it's not uncommon to see 3? 5? 7? groups doing the same project for some of the really popular ones.

I guess one of the things I would like to say is, I feel it is far more polite to actually offer to help the group before just taking the series over. I am actually in the situation right now where one of my editors really wants to do a series another group is doing, has contacted them, been told "Hell no", and I told him to drop it. No, is no.

Anyway, I rambled on the subject longer than I wanted to. I just wanted to try to show that anger over another group picking up a series one is working on isn't necessarily from a sense of ownership over the series.

[Sieg]

Actually some do.  I distinctly remember a certain shoujo manga group (a few other groups too though) that had at least a dozen "active" projects at once.  Some of their projects were on hiatus for months if not a year.  When another group decided to take up the project for the fans, they started bitching and raising a fuss on their website and IRC cause they were the first ones to work on it so they owned the "rights" to it.  You need to ask for their permission to do it and of course they refused since they "own" it.

Pretty much this, Hero. I have nothing against scanlators, at all. Why would I? They're the reason I can read manga that I can't find in my country. But stop acting like they're all some holy saints that never do anything wrong.

[Souldrake]

I think, Hero, that Vaygr and Jack Ryder are just pushing a stereotype based on the actions of a small number of groups upon all scanlators in general. They may not be intending to, but they are none-the-less. While it is true that some groups do the 10 post thing and the donate thing, the vast majority of groups do not.

None of that, however, justifies what Noez does with MangaFox-- not only taking traffic from the scanlators' sites that rely on that traffic to keep their websites and bots funded, but they take that money for themselves and launch more sites to make the problem even worse. They are not even hurting the "bad apple" scanlation groups only-- they are hurting all of them.

[Sieg]

I think, Hero, that Vaygr and Jack Ryder are just pushing a stereotype based on the actions of a small number of groups upon all scanlators in general. They may not be intending to, but they are none-the-less. While it is true that some groups do the 10 post thing and the donate thing, the vast majority of groups do not.

None of that, however, justifies what Noez does with MangaFox-- not only taking traffic from the scanlators' sites that rely on that traffic to keep their websites and bots funded, but they take that money for themselves and launch more sites to make the problem even worse. They are not even hurting the "bad apple" scanlation groups only-- they are hurting all of them.

What? No. Hero is just being incredible naive. We're not even talking about the same subject anymore, just trying to make him understand that EVERY scanlator team does their thing out of selfishness. Fame, adsmoney, etc.Noez is just doing business, I don't really hate them like a lot of you people do, but they're still pretty despicable.

[hero]

What? No. Hero is just being incredible naive. We're not even talking about the same subject anymore, just trying to make him understand that EVERY scanlator team does their thing out of selfishness. Fame, adsmoney, etc.Noez is just doing business, I don't really hate them like a lot of you people do, but they're still pretty despicable.

haha I am naive, thats a good one.
let me tell you, I am also in a group and I do the typesetting and I can guaranty you that we aren´t doing it because of selfishness.
what fame?? please tell me what fame do we get for translating a chapter? do you really think people look at the credit page?
plz, when the people see a credit page they click it away in 0.2 sec.
our group doesn´t even have a donation butten.
oh, and yes, we are talking about the same subject, its just that you have another perspective than me and I am ok with it, like I said just let us both drop this subject.

[Souldrake]

Agreed. Vaygr, you really should look at who you are replying to before pushing your stereotypes on them. You have no idea who we are or why we do what we do. What gives you the right to judge us based off of any other group's actions but our own? I can assure you, fame is the last thing we get from scanlating lol. Hell, after 6+ years of scanlating few people even know we are not a part of Null. Admoney? Nope, not adsharing with Batoto, no donations, no nothing. I purchase and scan all our manga from Amazon.com (well, Amazon.co.jp) and the shipping can really hurt on those. I have been told by my group that they would support me if I did ask to join Batoto adshare to recoup some of those losses, but I have not joined yet and I have no intentions to for the present time at least.

You really need to get whatever it is that got crammed up your backside out. In your mind are all people who are Muslim terrorists? (apologies for the sensitive subject to all those out there.) Do all German people wear leather pants, play the tuba and dance around drinking beer? Those are similar extremely narrow minded comments like the ones you are arguing with and as a scanlator, I find them rather insulting.

[Souldrake]

What? No. Hero is just being incredible naive. We're not even talking about the same subject anymore, just trying to make him understand that EVERY scanlator team does their thing out of selfishness. Fame, adsmoney, etc.Noez is just doing business, I don't really hate them like a lot of you people do, but they're still pretty despicable.

You did judge me and every other scanlator out there with that line. EVERY means EACH AND ALL. There is no misunderstanding in that word. I don't know what motivates other scanlation groups and I am not going to pretend that I know. I do know what motivates me and my group and I can tell you it has nothing to do with fame (was that supposed to be a joke? Hell, most people who read our scans think we are a part of Null and we are not and have never been.) and it certainly isn't ad money-- we have never taken a donation or money from advertisements. I am not going to sit here and tell you that scanlating is legal. It isn't. But those are not reasons by which we scanlate. It is not why WE do what WE do and by we I refer to myself and my group but I am sure there are other scan teams that would also fit.

Noez has become shady, dishonest and quite frankly is an insult to the entire basis on which scanlating began. It started off as a fine site, but the greed of Noez corrupted that. I do not want my work displayed there as it may be mistaken that I support their ideals and their ways of doing things. I do not. This is why I try everything I can to inform and attract attention to their actions and try to support sites like Batoto which still goes on the ideas of why scanlating originally started. So these blanket statements you are making are like spitting in my face.

If I do not understand your post then that is because you do not know what you are saying yourself.

[TheCrowSword]

hmm Ouch did know about MF, but the rest I didn't know much about.

Yes, okay I heard there was some big company controling a lot of sites and not being honorst and all. but did not know the specific sites...

well, I'm rooting for you. Also seems more and more people are realizing so it should at least move in the right direction, and if the other sites develop enough (which they will if this keeps circulating). I'm sure that people will start moving on to sites like batoto, whet ever they really care or not, so most of all a question of patience I guess?