142 replies to this topic

[fiveseconds]

But all the Greek deities were bitches and bastards.

I grew up in a practical environment with little to no conscience of the world outside myself. Essentially the child me is what one would call a dreamer. A few misfortunes here and there but not enough to constitute as a sob story. Utterly average, you could say. In some aspects, it is a good thing, because I began to value people for their personality long before most people... and that has a lot to do with the influence with my friends, who are all exceptional people. But you could say that I am biased. xD

No red light districts here. Creeps yes, but again, trust your gut. Always.

So Shuri doesn't really come off as anything to me, really. She's not that important to the story and the few times Currygom mentioned her were basically instances where she tried to get others to judge who was more beautiful between her and Urvasi/Airavata/Menaka/whatever. I accept that she's beautiful but whether to a disgusting degree or not is a moot point.

Agni, appearance aside, seems like a pretty nice guy, although his front would drive me crazy. I cannot stand people who are obsessed with this "infallible" image.

[Mizura]

This probably is the fan service for the guys who like guys

.... or maybe for the MLP fans? *gets shot*

Plus, there is that other thing, my dad looked a lot like Agni. And my mom was the Shuri type.

Goobera is God Agni's and Shuri's kid! O_o_O_o_O

But all the Greek deities were bitches and bastards.

Well yeah. And they were all good-looking (with a few exceptions). Which proves the point. Wait, what was the point supposed to be again? O_o;;

[Goobera]

Goobera is God Agni's and Shuri's kid! O_o_O_o_O

..and I still have a butter face Darn

.... or maybe for the MLP fans? *gets shot*

Shess in real life?

Edited by Goobera, 09 November 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Euodiachloris]

Goobera, I think you're making too much of this. There is an old trope (one Shuri might possibly be nodding at), in Britain, it's called "Tart with a Heart". In America (and, TV Tropes, unfortunately), it has a less... enjoyable name: Hooker with A Heart of Gold. There are many ways of playing the trope, as just looking at that page will show. <shrugs> But, the main one usually comes down to "never judge a book solely by the cover". Yes, you get shallow people who do tend to try to make up for their problems by going overboard on what they look like... but...

Even if you have bumped into a good hundred cheap paperbacks that you can do exactly that with, it's not always a good idea. Not all books are Mills and Boon (not even Mills and Boon ones).

Sometimes, a really decent, level-headed person will be hiding behind some of the worst, cheapest, shrillest fashion sense ever created. And, for Shuri (and most other Sura), how you actually look is mostly up to what you think looks good. Except for the bits you can't change. <shrugs>

Edited by Euodiachloris, 09 November 2012 - 06:01 AM.

[themantarays]

(Am I the only one who can't see the "Shess in real life" picture?)

Goobera, maybe I'm just desensitized from being around slutty American state-college girls and reading too much manga, but I don't think that kind of dress is that unusual, even if it is typically associated with that type of behavior.

Euo, you say the funniest things sometimes. I have no idea what any of your British references mean, even though half my family is from Yorkshire and I have dual citizenship.

Edited by themantarays, 09 November 2012 - 07:08 AM.

[Mizura]

(I can't see it either ;_; )

You know, it'd be ironic if the explanation turned out to be:
Q: Hey Shuri, why are you wearing such a short skirt?
A: Because otherwise I'd have to make a hole in all my dresses and pants for my tail. >: \

[Euodiachloris]

^There's also the other flavour of answer, "You expect me to try to wear jeans with a tail?"

Euo, you say the funniest things sometimes. I have no idea what any of your British references mean, even though half my family is from Yorkshire and I have dual citizenship.

I'm also sneaky and occasionally slip South African English into my chat. But, hey: I like playing with words and alternative meanings. I'd blame Terry Pratchett, but it's a family thing. If ever you get lost in my going overboard in enthusiasm (and forget to add pointers), there are always slang dictionaries online. Or, you know... anybody can just PM me and I'll explain my horrible punnage.

Edited by Euodiachloris, 09 November 2012 - 07:44 AM.

[Goobera]

I think "judging the book by its cover" is the opposite of what I wrote above in my (admittedly way to long) post?

I am actually too sensitive when it comes to uncovering fakers, so I often end up having the weirdest matched (or rather unmatched) types of friends.. The appearance of someone is of so little importance, that I sometimes tend to walk lost in my own thoughts, and can walk through the entire city, and come home not being able to remember if I have seen one single person.. That means only as long as I do not see someone remarkable by personality traits. Children for example tend to be remarkable, because they do not fake their self, so it is always nice to watch children. Grown ups not so much, since most are fakers and posers, no matter what they wear or how they act (with "act" pretty well describing what they do, staged play)

So while I am just human, and may judge someone by the cover in the first few seconds, as soon as I am able to read the truth behind (which takes a few seconds more), the appearance is completely insignificant

In Shuri's case the thing is different, since the talk was about her appearance alone, and not about her personality (which is pretty good), and how her appearance is so off that it makes her personality seem fake. Like if someone would say he is a priest, and would talk about God and chastity and what not, but at the same time wear some completely weird fetish clothes, so one would get the feeling that no matter what this person says, it cannot be true or it is completely off. Even if this combination may be totally hilarious for a comedy story, in real life it would be not funny (except as a one time prank among good friends)

So to say it more simply, if Shuri would wear clothes like Shakuntala or Brilith, it would be still very attractive, but not make her look like her appearance would strike out all her good personality traits. The way she is she seems off, or in the best case like unwilling comedy...

(Am I the only one who can't see the "Shess in real life" picture?)

You can see the image here: img.chan4chan.com/img/2010-05-20/1274327101958.jpg

Goobera, maybe I'm just desensitized from being around slutty American state-college girls and reading too much manga, but I don't think that kind of dress is that unusual, even if it is typically associated with that type of behavior.

It is sad if this is not even unusual. I did not grow up in some sheltered place, the exact opposite. And we have here in Hamburg a very creepy red light district (where women are not permitted to enter, unless they are being sold in little glass cages), you can look up Hamburg Reeperbahn in Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reeperbahn Women have no Bhavati Indra to fend off stalkers. There is a line which does get crossed, between what is crazy or funny, and what is humiliating and creepy. And sometimes when that line gets crossed there is no return

Geh, falling asleep, another night flew past in the Kubera forum without realizing >.> Do not want to pull allnighters, must get some sleep before I get going...

[Mizura]

Shuri is like a priest preaching about God and chastity while wearing weird fetish clothes. You heard it here first, guys! X'D

(Exhibit A: she's good with little boys)
(okay now I'm getting a weird image of Shuri complaining while being taken away by the police, while a woman consoles Yuta saying that he's safe now and they'll take care of the creepy woman)
(Yuta is watching the whole scene and drooling, because he's hungry. Run guys!)

You can see the image here:

Argh, my eyes! xP

Edited by Mizura, 09 November 2012 - 08:47 AM.

[Goobera]

(Exhibit A: she's good with little boys)
(okay now I'm getting a weird image of Shuri complaining while being taken away by the police, while a woman consoles Yuta saying that he's safe now and they'll take care of the creepy woman)

Next image: Yuta eats the policemen *burp* "That was a nice snack, what's next?"

It's your fault if I do not get any sleep, because I am all awake from all the laughing

[Euodiachloris]

I don't get why somebody can have the morals of a saint, but not be allowed to dress as a sinner. It's just packaging: it doesn't actually reflect what's truly going on in your head.

Yes, wearing clothes like that can be an issue... if you're human, female and in the wrong part of town. But, remember what the heck Shuri is meant to be: Nastika, absentee-ruler of her clan. I doubt she really has to worry about being groped in the dark, or taken for a cheap lay, so "normal" rules don't apply to her fashion. And, if anybody makes that mistake, well... in most cases, they'll be getting an unplanned nap-time. Other cases, a massive lecture with wagged finger and a bristled tail.

[Mizura]

^ Yo babe, what's u... whoa Grandma, what big teeth you ha... D':

It's your fault if I do not get any sleep, because I am all awake from all the laughing

But, but, for the most part I'm just quoting you. xD

Edited by Mizura, 09 November 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[Euodiachloris]

^ Yo babe, what's u... whoa Grandma, what big teeth you ha... D':

Reverse sexual metaphors for the win!

Does anybody really think the Big Bad Wolf would look good as meek little Red Riding Hood (take a peek at the YMMV "Your Mileage May Vary" tab)? Girl's gotta look the part, right? And, heck: in one interpretation of that tale, the red cape could mean "prostitute" in the wrong Northern French/ Southern German culture at the time the tale was collected and codified... by Perrault. <shrugs> And, he played on that to the hilt. Dunno if Currygom is playing with that, but... it wouldn't surprise me. It's one reason why "Tart with a Heart" sprang into my head in the first place.

And, wolves do make some of the best mothers and fathers, you know...

EDIT: Found some collected Red Riding Hood tales if anybody's interested: compare and contrast the Nightmare Fuel. For further nightmare inducement, try looking for some detailed analysis people have done on each. You've seriously got to ask questions about some literary analysts. Like "what were you drinking?".

Edited by Euodiachloris, 09 November 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[Arkeus]

On the female side, I think the most mature female character is Shakuntala. Despite losing her mother at a young age, evidently she's been supportive of her father when she should be saddened by the loss of her mother too, and it's like she knew what her fate would be and calmly accepted it.

I can't help but notice that most of the guys/girls you are talking about we know almost nothing on, and so might appear more mature because they are seen only in fleshbacks through people who love/hate them.

Shess himself is, in my mind, painfully bland and unknown so far.

Mature guys in the series:
+Agni
+Kassak
+The genderbent Nastaki

Mature Women in the series:
+None as far as i can see. Plenty of awesome ones though.It mostly has to do that the women in the series are kids.

[Mizura]

When you add the finite, we actually see Shess in at least 5 separate interactions:

• Shess and Gandharva: kept his calm facing the Nastika King, while standing up for Leny. At the same time, "helped" Gandharva by pointing out that by being unstable, he's helping his enemies, and as he said himself, he's doing this for the sake of Gandharva's clan, too. Result: before meeting Shess, Gandharva was sulking in a corner. After meeting Shess, Gandharva seemingly regained his composure.
• Shess and Maruna: sent Maruna off by noting that through his actions, Maruna is threatening the alliance between his clan and Gandharva's. Very efficient.
• Shess and Kasak: You say Kasak is mature, but Shess has been leading Kasak by the nose the whole time. "Look Kasak, this is what I want. And you will do as I say, because it does not benefit you for me to side with your enemies, and my presence benefits your daughter now that you are without your earrings." Stick and carrot at the same time. Ouch!
• Shess and Tak, finite: Shess' mother trusted Shess enough to send her to help an easy-to-anger -Dragon Nastika-. Shess acted without fear towards Tak, even noting how emotionally unstable he is compared to other dragons, yet was still able to maneouver out of all that intact. He even reminded Tak not to cause too much damage on the planet.
• Hana's mother even joked about him having insight because of how fast he figured out that she was dating a human.

Shess is supposedly neutral, but he's like an expert mediator. Thanks to him, Gandharva seemed to get his senses back, Maruna avoided a worst-case scenario thanks to Shess bringing Gandharva back to handle what Maruna can't handle, his presence probably helps the tension between Agwen and Kasak a bit, especially when Agwen thought that her father was planning to blow her to smitherees (along with the enemy), and Tak got a reminder on not to cause too much damage to the planet.

He's been alive for nearly as long as the Nastika, and thanks to that he apparently has a lot of fighting experience, but what allowed him to stay alive so long and hang around such high-level Nastika while keeping cool is evidently not his strength, but his calm, mediator composure and his incredibly fast and keen sense of observation and ability to see the big picture. He can lecture higher-ranking Nastika as a parent would lecture and handle children (the smart way, that is).

As for Shakuntala:

• She lost her mother when she was very young, but we never see her sad or complaining. On the contrary, she always seemed to be enjoying her life. It may be that she's gloomy and sulking the rest of the time, but I highly doubt that, because Maruna's impression of her would then be very different. He thinks she's a carefree idiot. You know, it takes a lot of emotional strength to see past one's sufferings.
• Even young, Shakuntala told Maruna to enjoy and treasure moments while he can. This is a very mature attitude.
• She knew what her fate would be (to be used as a lure to kill her father, sooner or later), and faced it head-on, by telling her father to abandon her when necessary
• When she ended in the Sura realm, which is fatal to her, she kept her calm and even went to play with the children (no doubt to reassure them), when she was having the hardest time
• When the Gandharva clan decided to take only the strong and flee, she decided that it was only right of her to stay and die with the other, weak children. Unfortunately her father was not as mature as her, and took her decision very badly. This is arguably her only mistake.

Overall while Shess is like an mediator, Shakuntala is like a mother, providing those around her with warm solace and defending the weak. Shakuntala is relatively young for a Sura, but she is much more mature than her currently rampaging father.

Edited by Mizura, 09 November 2012 - 11:29 AM.

[Euodiachloris]

Overall while Shess is like an mediator, Shakuntala is like a mother, providing those around her with warm solace and defending the weak. Shakuntala is relatively young for a Sura, but she is much more mature than her currently rampaging father.

Agreed. Makes you think she might have got that from her mum, as, as you've pointed out, it's certainly not from Dad.

Another prize for immaturity goes to... Sagara. But, I think s/he might be learning. Maybe.

In his own way, Maruna is actually quite mature. He just has... a very skewed sense of things, and lacks the depth emotional experience would give him. In short, he runs on logic and tactics, rather than common sense, emotional intelligence and strategic, long-term thinking... and, that leaves him a little short in the rounded package department. But, he's not without the ability to puzzle things through calmly... before going pop. He needs more time. And, hasn't learnt some of the harder lessons his half-brother has. <shrugs>

Ah... related thought... Are all three Garuda-sired sibs slow maturers, do you think? Well, we know both Yuta and Maruna aren't... swift... when it comes to that. Heck, Maruna might have complained like a champion growing up (and, it's not like he's finished, or anything), but I think Yuta might be even slower than he. Might mean that, once they hit the same stage... Yuta will probably be able to out-power his older sib. Maybe with some ease.

Edited by Euodiachloris, 09 November 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[Mizura]

*shudders* Now Sagara is just Nasty. At least Gandharva ran off on his clan to look for his daughter, Sagara doesn't even care of her clan gets sent to hell, all for her personal ambitions (whatever they are).

Maruna has gone cold, I think. After the Cataclysm, his mother died, his father fell into a coma, and when Shakuntala's whereabouts became unknown, he witnessed the powerful Gandharva reduced to a weakling puppet. Because of all this, I think he's become extremely cynical, and copes with this by trying to look at just the pragmatic side of things. This may just be a front though, as he desperately wants to be reunited with his siblings too. I think he's aware of this, since at one point he noted that his judgment is skewed when it comes to his siblings, so he had no right to judge Gandharva.

I wonder how he'd cope if the sibling he worked so hard to find turned against him?

I think another thing in Maruna's favor is that he's not totally alone. Sure, Gandharva has been reduced to a sniveling idiot, but he's still the Nastika that trained him all this time. By contrast, from Gandharva's POV, having Maruna around is not much better than having a kid to take care of, just like all those Mara and Upani aren't much of a company for Maruna either. Basically having a superior around is more consolation than having subordinates waiting for your next move when you're out of options. Maruna is not an equal Gandharva can truly depend on and open his thoughts to. And there's a good chance for Maruna to find his siblings, but Shakuntala is almost certainly dead.

At least, Maruna Wasn't totally alone. When Sagara told Maruna that Gandharva abandoned him, Maruna was visibly troubled. If he can't find Gandharva again, then he'd truly be on his own as well. I quite understand why Maruna flew in Gandharva's direction as soon as he found out where he was.

Edited by Mizura, 09 November 2012 - 02:19 PM.

[Goobera]

Mature Women in the series:
+None as far as i can see. Plenty of awesome ones though.It mostly has to do that the women in the series are kids.

I suppose then AAA magician Asha counts as a guy for you? And Airi who singlehandedly saved half of Atera by going one-on-one with a Rakshasa is immature too? Not to mention Jibril Ajes, Brilith's mother, who saved all of Atera during the Cataclysm? All immature, irresponsible and foolish girls, right? Then we have Primeval Goddess Brahma, who is so 'immature' that she keeps her cool despite all foolish wars and nonsensical bloodshed, and is actually the only Primeval God or Goddess still alive in the Kubera universe (= she is more powerful and mature than anyone of the other protagonists) Are we reading the same webtoon ?

That's what I like about this story, it is so well balanced. There are mature protagonists of both genders, but there are fools and idiots as well, there are Gods and Goddesses, Sura of both genders, monsters and saints, clowns and tragic heroes, silly kids and philosophers, again of both genders. Something like that is RARE Most sophisticated stories center around amazing, wonderful, mature, hilarious, fantastic men, and then a few little girls for the fan service factor, the few "supporting character" women who tend to the male hero, or the one creepy female bad character. Just one single mature and cool female protagonist is already something totally rare, and here we have heaps of all kinds and types, and of both genders A real fusion fantasy, literally

Edited by Goobera, 09 November 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[fiveseconds]

Your Mileage May Vary on Jibril. She may have been a good priest, but she was one heck of a bad wife and mother.
Brahma is mature in the independent sense. She's basically only concerned with keeping the world functioning. She emits that vibe where she just doesn't care anymore because she's seen too many worlds come and go. ^^

Asha... is out for revenge. >_> And Airi falls asleep on the job.

My look on Shess is that he has a very balanced lifestyle. He's doing pretty good in terms of sustaining himself.

Anyway, there's no point in arguing about who's more mature than who. Just keep in mind that all characters have different lifestyles and values and their past experiences shape the kind of person they are.

[Goobera]

That's the good part of this story, there is not one single character who would not have his/her good and bad points ^^ Balanced and wast universe with many many different possibilities