67 replies to this topic

[PROzess]

Is Ichibufag still with them?

Sadly he is.
I had a "little" "discussion" with him on the recent MU thread about this topic.

[hero]

Is Ichibufag still with them?

Sadly he is.
I had a "little" "discussion" with him on the recent MU thread about this topic.

can you give me the llink, plz.

[Weaper]

can you give me the llink, plz.

here you go http://www.mangaupdates.com/news.html?id=731

[hero]

can you give me the llink, plz.

here you go http://www.mangaupda...ews.html?id=731

thanks for the link!

[Kishuy]

Just wanted to say this. I went overdose to MF to see if naruto was ou. They took it out saying its lincensexD i swear, i laugh SÓ hard

I really cannot condemn anyone for taking the "donation", i would only answer it like this: "Great, here is the link to donation only. I do have a job already if you are offering one. I still maintain my position and will not allow any work of mine on your website (with or without delay)."

except it isn't exactly a donation, it's an outright offer/trade to offer the group a monthly payment of $100 (or maybe more or less) but in return the group doesn't watermark releases heavily or troll mangafox/mangahere. By accepting that donation, you're effectively acknowledging/approving of mangafox/mangahere/mangareader ripping releases, ignoring delay/no-host policies and removing of credits

I was being ironic you know. But i still maintain, if they want to make the donation go ahead, my habit would not change nor my moral. There is no need to troll anything but if they dont respect me, i would not respect them.

Edited by Kishuy, 23 February 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[Just Call Me Jack]

Now, i dont want to be rude to anyone i just would like to have some questions answered. Now lets say that a Group release many popular scans( lets say about 6 scans for a medium sized group), on a weekly bases. Now the question here is when dose it stop being server and raw cost, to a profit where they are in fact now making money from this site. should said group have anything to say about mangafox profiting when they themselves do, and should their be a limit on how much money a group can make? Also why is it that groups call all of their readers leeches, or play them off as being dumb. i mean i can understand that people are sometimes ignorant to issues, but to insult the people who suport you by reading it, and sometime donating is a bit rude.

[hero]

Now, i dont want to be rude to anyone i just would like to have some questions answered. Now lets say that a Group release many popular scans( lets say about 6 scans for a medium sized group), on a weekly bases. Now the question here is when dose it stop being server and raw cost, to a profit where they are in fact now making money from this site. should said group have anything to say about mangafox profiting when they themselves do, and should their be a limit on how much money a group can make? Also why is it that groups call all of their readers leeches, or play them off as being dumb. i mean i can understand that people are sometimes ignorant to issues, but to insult the people who suport you by reading it, and sometime donating is a bit rude.

I don´t think the word leecher is rude, its like calling someone in a game noob, I never got why that would be rude. also you don´t have to donate, its just if you like to.
the scanslation community didn´t have a problem at first with mangafox, but when the scanlation community new about NOEZ and mangafox started ignoring the waiting period the scanlation community got angry.

[Just Call Me Jack]

well to clarify, the word seems leech is rude because the association with a blood sucking parasite, that has never positively contributed to its host. while the word noob come form newbie, and that come form new person. that's not that bad. in my home country (where my parents are form) that is a big insult to be called a leech or sanguijuela. ​And i thought one of the major complaints along with respect was that they were making a profit. but now i see more and more groups using the same means as mangafox (Adds), and maybe from batoto. what i trying to ask is where do we draw the line here between just making it and making out like bandits.

Edited by Just Call Me Jack, 24 February 2012 - 01:49 AM.

[hero]

well to clarify, the word seems leech is rude because the association with a blood sucking parasite, that has never positively contributed to its host. while the word noob come form newbie, and that come form new person. that's not that bad. in my home country (where my parents are form) that is a big insult to be called a leech or sanguijuela. ​And i thought one of the major complaints along with respect was that they were making a profit. but now i see more and more groups using the same means as mangafox (Adds), and maybe from batoto. what i trying to ask is where do we draw the line here between just making it and making out like bandits.

first of all, they call the people leacher, because they don´t help and just want to read the next chapter (I am not saying it is ok to call someone leecher, I am just saying why they do it).
second, there is no line. I think its wrong for scanlation groups to make money out of translating manga, its ok if they just use the money for the server and the raws, but if they make profit out of it its wrong.
but mangafox isn´t doing anything, they are just hosting the manga that the people have worked on and make money out of it.

[soranokira]

It's still somewhat fine if they're profiting just a little since they ARE providing a service by aggregating all the manga and allowing you to read them online (which back in those days there weren't that many manga you can read online.) The even greater issue here is why do they have to go to the extent of creating and owning like 3 or 4 more other manga aggregator sites? + even try to earn money through wallpaperhere and otakushop? don't you think there's a limit?
Even worse, they remove credits/recruitment pages and ignore delay policies. Do they have a reasonable reason for doing so? no. Did they tell scanlators? no. If this kind of action doesn't piss people off I don't know what will.

and jack, the reason why scanlators just use the general term leechers, is because 90% of them literally are leechers, with only 5% who thank the scanlators and another 5% that are involved in scanlation or scanlation/reading community.

also, the reason why it's 'fine' for scanlation groups to profit somewhat because:
1. they contribute their effort to scanlate, to let you enjoy the series and know about it.
2. they have to pay for servers.
3. they have to buy raws (money flows back to the publishing company)
4. Most group are not standalones. If they profit any, unless the group leader shares the money (which would make everyone hardly earn anything at all), the group will probably disband and screw the leader over if the leader pockets the money himself.

[Just Call Me Jack]

Hero, well thank you for the education on leecher, while i stile think its rude to call someone that, i can understand and tolerate it more thanks to knowing what they mean. i agree with you hero on the part that the line is groups should not make money on the scans, its just like a game company that puch people to buy used games over new. all the profit they make on that purchase goes to them not the company that made the game. but what i am asking is that should someone draw a line in the sand to stop this. i know that batoto was setup for the scanners and not the readers so they are pretty neutral in this, but what is can really groups forming just to make money off of this program here.

soranokira, the issue on scanning is in the gray side of the law, but to profit on somebody else work is wrong, just like pirating a movie and games. they all take time and certain tools to do. i all for the free access of information, but when crossing over from free access so everyone can get to it to a business transaction where you make money off of somebody else idea and creation, that's something else. im not saying now that groups shouldn't break even for their efforts, what i am giving is a hypothetical situation where one group is making relatively good profit form the scans, and abusing this system, while calling out mangfox on what they themselves do also. and about leechers, i will agree to disagree with you. while it can be said that they do not put in any work so what they do is akin to a leech. the reality is that they bring exposure to a series, and might bring other people to it that may come and help, or donate. and about thanking them, that's nice but i dont think its the goal for most, they just do what they like.

Edited by Just Call Me Jack, 24 February 2012 - 03:22 AM.

[Kishuy]

Now, i dont want to be rude to anyone i just would like to have some questions answered. Now lets say that a Group release many popular scans( lets say about 6 scans for a medium sized group), on a weekly bases. Now the question here is when dose it stop being server and raw cost, to a profit where they are in fact now making money from this site. should said group have anything to say about mangafox profiting when they themselves do, and should their be a limit on how much money a group can make? Also why is it that groups call all of their readers leeches, or play them off as being dumb. i mean i can understand that people are sometimes ignorant to issues, but to insult the people who suport you by reading it, and sometime donating is a bit rude.

If you profit from your Work, why not?

I mean i wouldn't mind MF profiting as well, Google does the same thing with your privacy i mean, my problem with them is that they do not respect the wishes from those who's manga they host.

One manga probably would profit from hosting manga at their website as well, as many other groups (otherwise it wouldn't last that much time) but the minute you start ripping off credits and not respecting the ones that buy the raws, translate and post it so fans can read it, I mean something is very wrong.

As long they are transparent about it why not.

[hero]

and about thanking them, that's nice but i dont think its the goal for most, they just do what they like.

its not about thanking them, a lot of groups write a text about what they did or what happened to them or ask the site viewer a question, it would be nice if more people would respond, I mean it won´t take you a long time to just post something like "thanks for the release, oh and I also agree/disagree....". you could even write something in the time you are downloading the chapter. the people I work with and I also like it when we can talk with our site viewer.

[NooB.Ish]

I don't think scanlators really have a right to complain since their beaking the law by being the initial illegal distributer. I understand that they put effort in to it but still the scanlators have helped turn the manga industry into the music industry "Everybody can get it for free so why bother paying?".If the scanlators would stop scanlating we'd probably have slower releases but atleast the deserving parties profit. And yes this comes from someone who buys everything he reads when it is released (If it is released)

[hero]

I don't think scanlators really have a right to complain since their beaking the law by being the initial illegal distributer. I understand that they put effort in to it but still the scanlators have helped turn the manga industry into the music industry "Everybody can get it for free so why bother paying?".If the scanlators would stop scanlating we'd probably have slower releases but atleast the deserving parties profit. And yes this comes from someone who buys everything he reads when it is released (If it is released)

not all scanlation groups do series that are serialized, many of them do manga that will never be serialized in another country or at least in english.

[vimes123]

Compare it to cars. Just assume japanese cars aren't available in my country. Someone gives me a japanese car for free as a present.
In fact he gives a japanese car to everyone who asks for it. Now, does that hurt the sales of cars in my country?

That's a semi stupid example, but it's still a point many people ignore when they argument that it's ok to pirate everything that is not available to you.
Personally I don't mind doing so.

[nert5]

Compare it to cars. Just assume japanese cars aren't available in my country. Someone gives me a japanese car for free as a present.
In fact he gives a japanese car to everyone who asks for it. Now, does that hurt the sales of cars in my country?

That's a semi stupid example, but it's still a point many people ignore when they argument that it's ok to pirate everything that is not available to you.
Personally I don't mind doing so.

If you gave everyone a copy of the car and didn't pay for every car then it would be wrong and that is what is going on. People are taking one or two copies of something and altering it and sharing it with millions of people and some of them make money off it.

Also people talk about how the money the groups make is spent on server cost and manga but does it really matter what you do with the money. If Noez spent all the money they made on server costs but still didn't respect the groups request would everyone still have a problem with them?

[Loki]

Compare it to cars. Just assume japanese cars aren't available in my country. Someone gives me a japanese car for free as a present.
In fact he gives a japanese car to everyone who asks for it. Now, does that hurt the sales of cars in my country?

That's a semi stupid example, but it's still a point many people ignore when they argument that it's ok to pirate everything that is not available to you.
Personally I don't mind doing so.

If you gave everyone a copy of the car and didn't pay for every car then it would be wrong and that is what is going on. People are taking one or two copies of something and altering it and sharing it with millions of people and some of them make money off it.

Also people talk about how the money the groups make is spent on server cost and manga but does it really matter what you do with the money. If Noez spent all the money they made on server costs but still didn't respect the groups request would everyone still have a problem with them?

Yes , it does matter and i dont really know how would ppl react if mangafox was facing such an issue , but since they dont , we only get to see how ppl react in the current situation , so i dont think its possible to assume what we would have done in a different situation.

[vimes123]

Compare it to cars. Just assume japanese cars aren't available in my country. Someone gives me a japanese car for free as a present.
In fact he gives a japanese car to everyone who asks for it. Now, does that hurt the sales of cars in my country?

That's a semi stupid example, but it's still a point many people ignore when they argument that it's ok to pirate everything that is not available to you.
Personally I don't mind doing so.

If you gave everyone a copy of the car and didn't pay for every car then it would be wrong and that is what is going on. People are taking one or two copies of something and altering it and sharing it with millions of people and some of them make money off it.

Also people talk about how the money the groups make is spent on server cost and manga but does it really matter what you do with the money. If Noez spent all the money they made on server costs but still didn't respect the groups request would everyone still have a problem with them?

Thats not what my example has been about at all. Please try to read it more carefully. I wrote "as a present". Since copyright infringement is not theft and there is no immediate material loss involved that also makes surprisingly much sense. My post was in response to scanlation groups doing manga that isn't available in english or in not available in specific countries.
I wanted to show that it isn't license for piracy, even though it is of course a good reason.

[Souldrake]

You can't really compare cars to manga. If someone bought a copy of a manga for each person who wanted one nothing illegal is happening because someone is buying each copy. You can't just put a car through the photocopier and make a free car for everyone who wants one like you can a manga. Copyright infringement is a form of theft not of physical property but of intellectual property. Intellectual property is far easier to replicate.

But here is an issue I, and some scanlators have. If I obtain a copy of a work legally it should be my choice and mine alone about who I give any illegal copies to-- my answer to some of the "why should scanlators care who posts their stuff". If all I ask in return for a copy is a simple thank you and a promise not to show or give that copy to anyone with red hair and purple eyes, would I be wrong to withhold a copy for anyone who refuses my request? No, it's illegal to give them one in the first place. If they make that promise, am I wrong to hold them accountable for breaking it? I would sure hope not.

Some people like to lump all scanlators on the same level of Noez because obviously every scanlator who releases on Batoto or has their own webpage is making a profit off of ad traffic. But what about those of us who don't? Are we wrong to say, "Hey, Manga Fox, we don't profit off of our work and you shouldn't either." Are we wrong to say, "Wow, Batoto actually shows us some respect. They're supported by ads too, but since they show us some respect we'll reciprocate?"

Another thought to ponder, let's say I buy copy of a book and I am planning to write a paper on it for school or perhaps some literature study. Because I don't want to marr my original copy of the work, I photocopy the entire thing so I can make highlights and notes on it. I am looking through it in some coffee shop when I decide to get up to go to the bathroom or get some more coffee. While I am gone, someone takes my copy from the table, makes more copies of it and sells it for $5.00 per copy. Am I in the wrong in this situation for making a copy of the work with the intentions of using it only for my own personal use? No, not really. Is he stealing from me, the author, or both of us? Would you agree that his profiting from his acquisition of the copy and the distribution is wrong?