771 replies to this topic

[GodamfireV]

Yup, Sawamura’s 2-seamer was show off to his peers back in Fall Tourney but the feedbacks were pretty much the pitch didn’t have any break to it. It did have a little sink but too little to be useful so they crossed it out before playing Yakushi in the Final. In Act 2, we can see that his 2-seamer has a distinct shutto movement and he’s been said to have used it effectively in some games before so that pitch have been much improved by Sawamura.

Not just Cuba, I would like to see the US team have a clone of Hunter Greene and Kumar Rocker to see them blast Furuya away. Greene can hit HR too so yeah, move over Furuya.

[RoKrish]

@godamfireV:

the only reason that I chose Kershaw and Posey as examples are that they are generational talents at Pitcher and Catcher and we know how much Terajima likes his pitchers and catchers. In high school both of them pitched for the U18 National team, and both would have been playing for the full national team in the last WBC. Posey did, and called the game against Japan in the Semi's, Kershaw probably would have played if it wasn't for the birth of his kid before the last WBC, probably in a battery with Posey. To be fair, Poesy made the U18 team as a Shortstop, and only transitioned to Catcher as a college player. That said having Sawamura and his generation lead Japan to their first U18 World Cup crown would be a great story. A pitching rotation headlined by Sawamura and Hongou, with Mukai and Furuya in the #3 and #4 starters spot would be great. I would probably pencil in Haruichi and Raichi at second and third base, with Hongou's batterymate behind the plate, but beyond that I don't know enough about the potential starters. That said this is all very far away in the future for sawamura to even be considered for the Tokyo Senbatsu, and in any case it would take at least 5 years with the pace we are going at to get there any way.

[Gunden]

I find it absurd Furuya would’ve noticed Miyuki s injury during the seiko game. He was never shown to be the observant type. Maybe since he expierenced an injury and knew what playing with one feels and looks like he could see Miyuki was playing injured. Still doesn’t explain how he’d be that observant to begin with. Obviously mochi finding out makes sense considering he has been portrayed as quick witted and observant, and has had a history of discovering injuries haha.

[GodamfireV]

@godamfireV:

the only reason that I chose Kershaw and Posey as examples are that they are generational talents at Pitcher and Catcher and we know how much Terajima likes his pitchers and catchers. In high school both of them pitched for the U18 National team, and both would have been playing for the full national team in the last WBC. Posey did, and called the game against Japan in the Semi's, Kershaw probably would have played if it wasn't for the birth of his kid before the last WBC, probably in a battery with Posey. To be fair, Poesy made the U18 team as a Shortstop, and only transitioned to Catcher as a college player. That said having Sawamura and his generation lead Japan to their first U18 World Cup crown would be a great story. A pitching rotation headlined by Sawamura and Hongou, with Mukai and Furuya in the #3 and #4 starters spot would be great. I would probably pencil in Haruichi and Raichi at second and third base, with Hongou's batterymate behind the plate, but beyond that I don't know enough about the potential starters. That said this is all very far away in the future for sawamura to even be considered for the Tokyo Senbatsu, and in any case it would take at least 5 years with the pace we are going at to get there any way.

 

The only reason why I don't want clones of Posey and Kershaw to appear in DNA is because they will be utterly broken. Mei and Hongou at this point is already quite at broken level for a Japanese pitcher. If you were to feature the best pitcher of the last decade and he'll be paired up with one of the best catchers of his generation as well. That doesn't fare well for the Japan team at all. However, I really do like the story of Sawamura being part of Sammurai Japan or U18 Japan and take their team into the Final. 

I find it absurd Furuya would’ve noticed Miyuki s injury during the seiko game. He was never shown to be the observant type. Maybe since he expierenced an injury and knew what playing with one feels and looks like he could see Miyuki was playing injured. Still doesn’t explain how he’d be that observant to begin with. Obviously mochi finding out makes sense considering he has been portrayed as quick witted and observant, and has had a history of discovering injuries haha.

 

Not absurd but certainly quite unbelievable considering this is a kid that doesn't pay much attention to others beside himself or people that do things that tick him off like Sawamura or Hongou. However, it does have a little sense that Furuya himself was also handling an injury so perhaps he kind of "felt" something from Miyuki way of acting or movements? Otherwise, I do agree with you that it was kind of a long shot that Furuya of all people noticed Miyuki's injury before MUCH more observant guy like Nabe and Mochi. 

[GodamfireV]

I have always had this picture but I just didn't bother to check it.

Spoiler

 

So the OG fastball is now called a "high-speed changeup" or more appropriately termed a power changeup. On the other hand the zero-seam is still a mysterious pitch we haven't seen before. At the moment, there are only 2 pitches that would meets the criteria of being 0-seam. 1 is the Vulcan Change while the other one is the Forkball because the grip would be deeper, almost down to the middle part of the ball so it's not gripping on any seams while some pitchers' Splitter would be gripping on the seams or at least on 1 seam. Given how Sawamura already has the Splitter, I see no reason for him to have a Forkball so we can eliminate that out of the equation. Hence, the only pitch left that may possibly be the elusive 0-seam is the Vulcan Changeup. However, it is incredibly bizarre how Terajima would come up with a new wacky name for a pitch he has already identified already in Act 1. 

[RoKrish]

The only reason why I don't want clones of Posey and Kershaw to appear in DNA is because they will be utterly broken. Mei and Hongou at this point is already quite at broken level for a Japanese pitcher. If you were to feature the best pitcher of the last decade and he'll be paired up with one of the best catchers of his generation as well. That doesn't fare well for the Japan team at all. However, I really do like the story of Sawamura being part of Sammurai Japan or U18 Japan and take their team into the Final. 

Yeah, they would be, but I mean terajima put a peak Randy Johnson clone in there. I mean that leaves you with not all that much room to go up and level up the opposition. Kershaw and Poesy are in a sense the next level up (debatable in Kershaws case as the Big Unit was that good). Its also fair to say that international baseball is a totally different animal to the Majors, look at what happened to the 2006 USA team that was full of top level talent at every position except pitcher where there were only really two stars, a past his prime Roger Clemens and a young Jake Peavy. They didn't even make it past the second round that year. Seeing Sawamura lead an all star U18 team Japan to the finals of the World Cup would be pretty hype though. That team would be loaded in terms of talent, even if they followed a rule of no more than 1 position player and one pitcher per team. 

 

@Gunden:

I agree with you. That just seemed weird from a narrative sense. Furuya has never been shown to care about his teammates, or their condition. Why would he now? (I mean besides the fact that it is his batterymate personal ball catching wall)

[GodamfireV]

@Rokrish

Now we don’t know if that’s supposed to be peak Johnson or not but at least Just due to the reputation of the Big Unit, I do expect Japan to lose now. Yeah, Mei will able to stop the bleeding for Japan and he’ll look good doing it but so what, try to get 2 runs from Conrad (aka Johnson) is going to be a tall order, at least we can expect it to be harder for Japan to come back than for US to extend the lead. Just imagine how freaking difficult it would be to have not just Conrad but also a Kershaw’s clone pitching for US national team...

Spoiler

Well anything can happen in the Wold Cup for sure but I suspect a past prime, non-roid Clemen would be pretty meh compare to his normal roi-standards so yeah, that kind of happened but not totally surprising I guess.

Edited by GodamfireV, 07 January 2018 - 11:05 AM.

[RoKrish]

I have always had this picture but I just didn't bother to check it.

Spoiler

 

So the OG fastball is now called a "high-speed changeup" or more appropriately termed a power changeup. On the other hand the zero-seam is still a mysterious pitch we haven't seen before. At the moment, there are only 2 pitches that would meets the criteria of being 0-seam. 1 is the Vulcan Change while the other one is the Forkball because the grip would be deeper, almost down to the middle part of the ball so it's not gripping on any seams while some pitchers' Splitter would be gripping on the seams or at least on 1 seam. Given how Sawamura already has the Splitter, I see no reason for him to have a Forkball so we can eliminate that out of the equation. Hence, the only pitch left that may possibly be the elusive 0-seam is the Vulcan Changeup. However, it is incredibly bizarre how Terajima would come up with a new wacky name for a pitch he has already identified already in Act 1. 

Hey, Terajima actually did more research in act 2 than he did in Act 1! No wonder the Manga's quality has been improving. Honestly I wasn't surprised that back in act 1 that Miyuki (therefore Terajima) didn't know about power changeups, they weren't really a thing when he was writing Act I, but in the time that has passed since then its good that he's added that info into cannon. (side note: there are so many anachronisms in the manga if you go back and look at it.) That said, I still believe that 0-seam can't be the vulcan, especially since it seems to be a pitch at or less than the velocity of Circle Changeup, just with more movement on it. 

 

Also on a side note Batoto Seems to be closing :https://vatoto.com/forums/topic/28840-batoto-will-be-closing-permanently/

I guess we will need to find a new place to have these discussions

Spoiler

Yeah but that doesn't explain how in 2013 a team with the reigning NL Cy Young winner managed to loose in the second round Group Stage. (To be fair that NL Cy Young Winner was R.A. Dickey a knuckleballer, and if it wasn't for his novelty, it probably would have gone to Kershaw) Or 2009 when a team with Chipper Jones, Derek Jeter, Cy Young Winner Jake Peavy, the guy who led the league in saves that next season, Heath Bell, and Dustin Pedroia, managed to get blown out by Japan 9-4 in the semis. International baseball is just weird. A good kind of weird, but weird.

Edited by RoKrish, 07 January 2018 - 09:45 PM.

[YoMeN88]

This forum will be closed permanently on January 18th. Need to find a new place. forums.animesuki.com is a good option. 

[Gunden]

Man having to move again? Are anime forums dying or something?

[RoKrish]

@Gunden, Basically the guy running this one is pretty exhausted and doesn't want to do it any more.

[GodamfireV]

This forum will be closed permanently on January 18th. Need to find a new place. forums.animesuki.com is a good option. 

 

Shame, however, duly noted that Batoto will be closing but ​the forum will still remains for an extended period of time. ​The forum's closing time has not been specified so we're still safe for now but gotta find somewhere to migrate again.

[YoMeN88]

Shame, however, duly noted that Batoto will be closing but ​the forum will still remains for an extended period of time. ​The forum's closing time has not been specified so we're still safe for now but gotta find somewhere to migrate again.

Yeah, but he did say this.

 

Services will be severely affected starting January 18th as servers expire, though content may still be accessible for you. By January 25th, critical number of servers will have expired that the site will no longer function. But you should consider 18th to be the last day.

 

That's how I got the date. Anyway, time to find a new forum.

[Gunden]

I’m watching the seidou yakushi finals and Kanamaru got a big hit in the 8th against sanada, I know he’s good against fastballs but he got a clean hit off of sanadas 2 seamer/shutto. It seems like once he gets better at hitting breaking balls he may be a really good hitter. After his lackluster performances in Koshien and spring tournament and some of the first practice games in the summer I started to think he needed a lot of work and is outright behind takatsu in batting, but watching him bat and hit against sanada and the fall quarterfinals against the public school have reminded me he’s not bad. Obviously he will be the 7th or 8th batter behind Seidous “big 6” but has shown to come up clutch like Tojo has said. He has shown to have power after hitting the home run, and has the ability to hit Furuyas fastball cleanly, so if he makes a few adjustments, a cleanup spot wouldn’t be crazy, especially since it is up for grabs when the 3rd years leave.

Also another note asou is a good batter as well he Alamo’s followed up to tie the game in the 8th after Kanamarus hit. he has shown to get a good amount of hits and uses his head at the plate, he gets overlooked because he’s not as flashy or a high performer. A lineup with him and Kanamaru 7th and 8 can definentlu make stuff happen. Furuya is the ultimate boom or bust hitter, something that would be necessary maybe if we needed a 5 hole hitter, but batting 7th it’s good to have under the radar solid hitters, everyone would be way too wary of Furuya after his Koshien splash. I agree with what @GodamfireV stated about Furuya not taking left field. Asou is easily the better defender.

1. Kuramochi
2. Haruchi
3. Shirasu
4. Miyuki
5. Zono
6. Tojo
7. Kanamaru/Takatsu
8. Asou
9. Sawamura

Maybe takatsu bat 8th because he hasn’t been in the lineup that long, but this is what I’d go with.

I know GodamfireV would want something like this:

1. Mochi
2. Tojo
3. Haruchi
4. miyuki
5. Zono
6. Shirasu
7. Kanamaru/takatsu
7. Asou
9. Sawamura

Small differences, would probably be the same result. I like Haruchi 2nd because if mochi get out Haruchi could get on base, Shirasu could bunt or hit him over to 2nd or 3rd, giving Miyuki and possibly Zono a shot at getting him and maybe Shirasu in. With haruchi batting 3rd, Tojo may get out as well if mochi, who is an improved batter, gets out as well. Haruchi single with 2 outs wouldn’t be as good, leaving Miyuki having to hit at least a double getting him in.

In sawamuras 3rd year they can have Haruchi in a clean up spot due to seto being 1 and Tojo being an expierenced 3rd year close to or being as good a hitter as 3rd year Shirasu, and batting 2nd or even 3rd, leaving Haruchi to be 3rd or 4th.

But as of now I think you need to make the top of the lineup as top heavy as possible. Personally I’d almost want to put mochi, Haruchi, then Miyuki 3rd and Zono/Shirasu 4th and 5th. Obviously that won’t happen due to Seidous track record, and how much the narrative talks about the “cleanup”, but it’d be something I’d almost certainly consider.

Edited by Gunden, 08 January 2018 - 07:23 AM.

[GodamfireV]

@Gunden

 

Yeah, good observations there. I agree with all of your points. As of now, the 7th or 8th batter's spot will be a competition between Kanemaru and Takatsu. From the presented narrative, Kanemaru is the batter with better power while Takatsu is the batter with better contact. Which batter should the team goes with may depends on the day and the form of these respective batters.

 

Like you said, having Haruichi bats 2nd would guarantee Seidou at best 2 runners on base and Shirasu will either have an option to bunt them into scoring position for Miyuki and Zono to clean the plate. On the other hand, having Haruichi bats 3rd will likely be able to up Seidou's converting probability I feel like because Haruichi has been able to get Mochi home from 2nd by hitting line drive, especially to the right line, which is more impressive than pulling it to the left like Zono. Toujou may be considered as a downgraded ver. of Shirasu but he certainly can hit for contact and he can bunts properly. Having him bats 2nd will demand Mochi to do a bit more work for sure but then in case Seidou faces a pitcher like Mei who nonchalantly allows the first 2 batters on base for the sake of reserving stamina and goes all out to shut-out the cleanup, letting the cleanup goes down 3 for 3 is going to be demoralizing. So at least in the final, I would prefer to see Haruichi bats at 3rd so when Mei is still underestimating him, which he tends to do, Haruichi may be able to sneak 1-2 RBI pass Mei. Plus, when it gets tight, Haruichi will be more clutch than Shirasu and will be able to keep the hope alive for Seidou like he did ​so brilliantly in the Fall Final​. Yeah Zono hits the comeback RBI but Seidou was hanging on a thin thread at 2 out when came to Haruichi's turn and the Haruichi himself was the thin thread Seidou was hanging on then. Shirasu wasn't as impressive in that game. So normally, to blast the opponent away, we can go with the current lineup, which is your favorite but in the Final, I feel like the 2nd option would be more clutch.

 

For Kanemaru batting skills, I suspect he may have stumbled upon a skill-gap problem instead of a mental problem, like Furuya. Furuya's problem is believed to be mostly mental related but key thing that led to it, I think, was the skill gap he experienced starting in Senbatsu. For a while Furuya was hailed like a special pitcher with unrivalled power, he usually doesn't expect his fastball to be owned, but he was owned by Komadai in Senbatsu. That's when Furuya's weakness started to show. The team, the Nation (Seidou's opponents) saw Furuya's fastball ain't no invincible pitch and if they can pin down his fastball, they'll be able to own him. Ichidaisan, in a beautiful display of legit baseball strategy, pinned down Furuya's fastball by letting go of his breaking pitches and forced Furuya to go for fastball down in the count. This made Furuya hungry and for strike and made him predictable. Furuya didn't particularly got weaker but Ichidaisan just exploited his weakness to the best of their ability. So as the standards of baseball level rises as team gets more serious heading into Summer and the higher the level of opponent Seidou plays, the more difficult it became for Furuya. Similarly I think that may be the problem Kanemaru is facing here. He didn't particularly got weaker, it just the pitchers he has been facing since Senbatsu have gotten better and he is not keeping up to them. Times where he could hit Double or RBI back in Fall dropped drastically as a result. Plus, Seidou have been playing practice matches with Koshien powerhouses since the Spring Tournament as well so that may be the reason why Kanemaru's batting stats haven't improved much despite the keystone batters like the Cleanups and Haruichi's success remain pretty constant because their skills are up to par with the competition.

 

So the question now for Kanemaru is not to get "back into shape" but to step up his level within the short time span that he still has left, same goes to Takatsu as well. Fortunately for him, as a batter/fielders, he'll get more opportunity to do it than Furuya who is pitching with probably a pitch count limit since he has just came back from injury. 

[Gunden]

I agree, I’d also add that the story portrayed, and if I’m not mistake, some of the batting averages were shown, of some of the key batters, (obviously zono not playing), mochi, Shirasu, and even Haruchi struggling at senbatsu, and then them unable to score against full power Amahisa, they were also not satisfied with their performances either. However they were able to produce something and are still top batters against ok to good teams, that they still showed results, while Kanamaru isn’t at the level of play yet where he can compete like that, he still has off days. And it doesn’t help there’s talent at his position, while if there was no takatsu there wouldn’t really be any question.

However if Kanamaru didn’t have the push to strive due to competition for 3rd, he may not grow as much this summer. Not that he wouldn’t grow at all, but as shown with his battle with Higasa, he improved due to it as anyone would, and would still continue to prove he should start over him, even without takatsu.

Yes Kanamaru and takatsu should trade on and off similar to how him and Higasa did in the fall. Play if you want contact vs power, righty vs lefty, who is doing good or not. Poor Higasa I see no need to start you, or even keep you on the roster. I guess he’ll stay on as one of the last remaining 3rd years of the last generation roster, besides mochi, Shirasu, Kawakami, and Miyuki.

Asou is a lock to me for left. Even if the first years grow, I don’t see them playing in the later games much at all, maybe in pinch hits but not being on the field. His hit against the Harkyuu pitcher shows he can still perform well, and he’s collected hits against some tough pitchers like sanada. The freshman batters haven’t shown to be able to hit that anyway, so there’s really no upside. They will have their chance.

[FuzzyStorm]

https://vatoto.com/forums/topic/28840-batoto-will-be-closing-permanently/page-1

 

Batoto is closing very soon. Apparently some people are trying to get a batoto V2 up, but where will discussion continue in case the project doesn't work? 

 

I enjoy reading some of your posts and lately after mangafox dying, now this...

Edited by FuzzyStorm, 08 January 2018 - 07:34 PM.

[RoKrish]

@Gunden and @GodamfireV:

This is why I like Kanemaru and Asou in the 7 and 8 holes, if I remember correctly the only game in which Asou did not get an RBI last fall was in the finals and it took a ridiculous diving play to rob him of a single that would have driven in a run. Kanemaru is a pretty normal hitter for his age, struggling with breaking pitches, but capable of smacking fastballs out of the park. The only change I would make to your line up is to switch their position, as to me it makes more sense for the 7 hitter to hit, get on base, wait for the 8 hitter to either advance him, drive him in, or fly out,  than it is for the 8 hitter with 1 out wait for the 9 hitter to do the same. Its just relative odds for success. Its also pretty telling of his ability that he didn't play in two of Seidou's tournament losses (Inajitsu and Ichidaisan) and the only game he played in that Seidou lost was against Komodai and Hongou (where basically everybody except Miyuki and Furuya struggled. He sort slips under the radar, since in that outfield he's definitely the worst hitter, but thats not because he is a bad hitter, its because Tojou and Shirasu are just that good, that in comparison he looks kind of bad. 

 

I would not really change all that much about Asou's batting, other than having him work on upping his contact and power a bit, and just tell him to use his head in the box. For Kanemaru he needs to get disciplined at the plate. He has talent, but he needs to focus on targeting only the pitches he can hit and getting them up in the air or out of the infield. I mean the guy can pull and crush even Furuya's fastballs. The problem for him has never been power or even really making contact with Heaters, he needs to be able to ignore the breaking and offspeed pitches that he comes across. Also it seemed kind of dumb, in the Ichidai game, to have him bunt. The guy is a power hitter, they should never bunt unless absolutely necessary. Then again in that game there were a lot dumb decisions (read not playing Sawamura or Kawakami).

[GodamfireV]

@Rokrish

The thing about Kanemaru is yes, he's whiplashing on a lot of pitches he doesn't need to. Even in situational batting practice against Kawakami, who is a good pitcher but he is definitely not first rate material, Kanemaru would still easily swing at Sliders and out-side low fastball, which are 2 most difficult pitch to hit from Kawakami. This suggest his pitch elimination and prediction is not that good. This makes sense why he would struggle against better pitchers.

 

If Kanemaru can hit Furuya's high fastball, that means his sweet spot is middle to the inside and higher part of the zone, so he's a pull hitter not unlike Zono. Given this ability, Kanemaru has to learn how to watch and predict pitches better to narrow down that inside - high fastball that he wants. Unfortunately for him though, against a pitcher or a team as good as Mei and Inajitsu, he will gets predictable pretty quickly, they'll learn that he's sitting on that inside fastball and they'll throw him changeup and out-low fastball all day and there's pretty much nothing he can do about it, it's way above Kanemaru's level to hit. In that case, a bold batter that's willing to step in like Takatsu would probably fare a bit better especially since he's a lefty batter which gives him a boost against Mei.

 

Kanemaru needs to learn to hit outside fastball to minimize his predictability. No batters want to hit a breaking pitch if they could but when it comes down to the wire, the best pitchers would usually throw their signature breaking pitch to get out of trouble plus fooling the batters since batters will usually expect a fastball. So Kanemaru needs to add more  proficiency to his batting checklist to become a better batter, just good at hitting fastball won't be that successful at this point. 

[F A R A H]

So the forum is closing!! I made this account to follow this thread after you guys moved here from mangafox, now this is also going to close!! did you decide where to go?? please let me know, I don't post but I always read the spoilers and discussions