15 replies to this topic

[truepurple]

CH 20

 I think Ted might be messing with Evan or something like was suggested in comments. This chapter doesn't really make sense otherwise.

 

I'm a little puzzled by the great lead in to meeting her, why discuss it so vaguely for so long? "Would you meet my six year old niece? She has a request for you." Serious, how hard would that be.

 

     But the bottom of page 9 has me really baffled if Teds not just messing with Evan. What does "taking her request" mean??? Normally I would think taking a request means the same as accepting it, like taking it on. But the request is that of marriage from a six year old he's never met before, so I guess taking it means hearing it? Can the translator please shine a light on the word that was translated to "accept"?

 

    And what does he mean by discipline??!??  Evans not a authority figure for her, what does Ted want, him to ground her? I guess Evan could spank her, but I'd recommend against that. Lock her in jail? I see no way for Evans to "discipline" her without getting into heaps of trouble himself. Besides, childish requests for marriage isn't a punishment worthy thing, no matter how you look at it.

 

Really, Ch20 seems like it could have been funny.  Reversal of expectations and all can be hilarious. But it really went about it all wrong IMO. Ted wasn't messing with Evan, it was just a badly done joke. 

Edited by truepurple, 31 August 2017 - 02:32 PM.

[hapa]

Hey there, I proofread this chapter. Let me clear some of your questions up, just from how I interpreted the chapter.

 

The whole punchline of her being six was setup by the vagueness of Ted's initial request to meet his niece. You're right, if he had just said "Will you meet me six year old niece? She wants to talk to you" it wouldn't have been a chapter at all.

 

"taking her request" as in accepting it. I could have been more literal but I thought the majority of readers would understand what that meant. Other examples would include "Took that job a while back" "take on the mission",  "taking the next step" all inferring that the person is agreeing/accepting/proceeding with said subject matter.

 

Discipline, as Ted is referring to is like disciplining your child when they don't look both ways when crossing the street. To discipline a student when he gets bad grades is another example. This isn't discipline as in a form of punishment, rather teaching the person how to behave or what to do so they don't mess up again, and why their behavior is unacceptable. Ted wants Evans to discipline his niece on how to act like a proper lady, and to stop doing childish things such as picking her nose, flapping her skirt around, etc.

 

I'm sorry if you didn't find it funny, it was a pretty poorly disguised joke, most people could see it coming from a mile away. 

Edited by hapa, 31 August 2017 - 06:42 PM.

[truepurple]

So you're a PR, do you also know Japanese and have seen the raws?
 

"taking her request" as in accepting it. I could have been more literal but I thought the majority of readers would understand what that meant. Other examples would include "Took that job a while back" "take on the mission",  "taking the next step" all inferring that the person is agreeing/accepting/proceeding with said subject matter.

The line is, "If you take her request, I want you to discipline her. You just said it means the same as agreeing. The request is of marriage, and Ted knows it.

So you are saying, Ted is saying
" If you agree to marry my six year old niece, please "discipline"(please see next) her"?!?!?

Ted doesn't mind his six year old niece getting engaged to his adult boss that she's never met before?!? That has to be wrong. Are you SURE the original Japanese means the same as agree to the request?
 

 

rather teaching the person how to behave or what to do so they don't mess up again, and why their behavior is unacceptable.

 
Wrong word then, reprove,  admonish, scold, lecture, etc. You say discipline, people think punish. Plenty of other options that leave no room for such misunderstanding.

 

"If you agree to marry my six your old niece you have yet to meet, please punish her." Is all sorts of wrong

Edited by truepurple, 31 August 2017 - 08:57 PM.

[Radicool21]

Her request was to meet him. The words in the context of the series as a whole would just make no sense otherwise, and as a reader it's a very simple conclusion to make. Kids say they want to marry their parents or siblings or a celebrity when they're young, it's obvious that that's the same principle here. As the humor of this chapter is based on misunderstanding, it's vague at the beginning but is meant to clear up immediately once it's revealed that she's a child.

 

Discipline isn't limited to a punishment context by any means. "Wow, he works really hard, he's very disciplined." Discipline is, by definition, self-control. To discipline someone means to fix that lack of self-control - usually through punishment, but also by reward, by instruction, or other means. The type of punishment is also unspecified.

 

Ted's description of his niece is someone who does not have self-control (as many children are), but part of growing up is gaining that ability to rein yourself in. The niece sees Sheriff Evans as someone who she admires, so it's logical to conclude that she'd probably listen to what he has to say. If the person you like says "stop picking your nose, that's gross", chances are you'll stop picking your nose. As an adult, and as the object of a childish crush, Evans is in a position of authority and so Ted sees meeting him as a potential method to fix her behavior. Marriage is clearly not in question here.

Edited by Radicool21, 31 August 2017 - 09:46 PM.

[truepurple]

"Wow, he works really hard, he's very disciplined." Discipline is, by definition, self-control.

 
While related, that is a different definition of "discipline". Many English words have more than one definition, that is one of those words.  And yes, one of the definitions can stem from another, but it is still a different definition.  Discipline as meaning self control, is a adverb, a descriptive word. Discipline as a verb, is a completely different word, and tends to mean punish.
 
Again, reprove,  admonish, scold, lecture, etc. would have been much better, do you disagree? Do you think those words wouldn't fit?
 

So you're a PR, do you also know Japanese and have seen the raws?

I am still curious as to whether the original Japanese here really translates to "agree/accept"

Edited by truepurple, 03 November 2017 - 12:13 AM.

[hapa]

Thanks for explaining it a little more in-depth Radicool.

 

 

 

So you're a PR, do you also know Japanese and have seen the raws?

 

No I don't know Japanese, I get my translations from our translator who I trust, and I've never been told from other readers that the translation doesn't match the raws. I do look at the raw panels so I have context though.

 

 

 

The line is, "If you take her request, I want you to discipline her. You just said it means the same as agreeing. The request is of marriage, and Ted knows it.

So you are saying, Ted is saying
" If you agree to marry my six year old niece, please "discipline"(please see next) her"?!?!?

 

Evans doesn't realize that the request is for marriage until the second to last page, at this point Evans only knows that Ted knows a girl(of unknown age/or relation to Ted) that has a request to talk to Sheriff Evans. Ted knows it, Evans doesn't. For all we know, Ted's niece told Ted that he wanted to marry Evans after he went to get her. Radicool is right though, Ted sees meeting Sheriff Evans as a way to fix her behavior(once she meets him)

 

 

 

You say discipline, people think punish

 

Like a lot of words in English, many have multiple meanings. In the context of this chapter; discipline does not mean punish. Discipline -- as a verb means "train oneself(or someone) to do something in a controlled and habitual way".

 

My job is for the translation to make sense to English readers and for the conversation to flow naturally. I have a BA in English from the University of Houston(Just to let you know my background). I'm not just making these revisions up and hoping they sound good to English readers. Proofreading may just be a hobby for me, but I expect the best out of my work and I'm not going to take shortcuts to finish a job.

 

Also, Discipline is a verb, not an adverb; adverbs end in -ly such as Quickly, Brutally, Briskly, etc etc.

 

Source: Oxford Dictionary: Discpline, #2/3 http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/discipline_2

Edited by hapa, 31 August 2017 - 10:18 PM.

[truepurple]

Again, reprove, admonish, scold, lecture, etc. would have been much better, do you disagree? Do you think those words wouldn't fit? Why do you feel "discipline" fits better here?

 

I've never been told from other readers that the translation doesn't match the raws.

 

I imagine there isn't that many readers who read both the raws and the scantelations.

 

     So Radicool, you are saying the request is for a audience for a request.  The request for a request.  Sure, I can see that as part of the anally and incredibly stretched out vagueness that is taken way too far, with it's attempt to make a single reversed expectations joke, a whole chapter. But the way it reads, that Ted is talking about if you accept the request for a audience, not if you accept the request that will be made after you accept the audience, is not clear at all. And sure, one may be able to go back and figure it out after they finally get to the punchline, but in the mean while it might as well be a bunch of random words. And who'd want to go back and figure stuff in earlier pages after all that?

 

     So if the word really translates as "accept", you could ask for clarification from the translator perhaps? Then maybe going slightly off script would improve the read. Nothing major. Like maybe "If you'll see her, please admonish her." I find it hard to believe that would be too far from the original Japanese. 

Also, Discipline is a verb, not an adverb; adverbs end in -ly such as Quickly, Brutally, Briskly, etc etc.

 

Source: Oxford Dictionary: Discpline, #2/3 http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/discipline_2

 

Disipline is a verb, it usually means to punish. That weird entry about disciplining yourself is not normal English.

 

Disiplined is a adjective then, it means to have good self control. What ever word category you put it under, it is still a different definition. 

 

Regardless, there are so many other better options without multiple meanings.

Edited by truepurple, 31 August 2017 - 10:47 PM.

[hapa]

 

 

Again, reprove, admonish, scold, lecture, etc. would have been much better, do you disagree? Do you think those words wouldn't fit? Why do you feel "discipline" fits better here?

Because all of the words you listed would be like if Ted told Sheriff Evans to have a quick talk with his niece regarding her bad behavior. Discipline fits better here because he's asking Sheriff Evans to teach her niece how to act more lady-like and proper. Not just scold her because of her past wrong-doings(that Evans doesn't even know of, besides stories Ted's told him).

 

You wouldn't scold someone you just met, having no former knowledge of what they've done other than stories you've heard, right? Ted is saying, "if you accept her request, please discipline her" to make that even more broad, let's say Ted actually knows a girl Evans age, regardless of the request. Ted wants Evans to teach her how to act right around others, that can take a while. Scolding, lecturing, Admonishing, are all "short-term" forms of correcting her behavior. Discipline in this case can mean to teach her over either a short or long period of time; which makes way more since in the context of the chapter.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you buddy, I'm just giving you reasons for what was changed and why. 

[truepurple]

What was changed? You mean it was originally something other than "discipline".
  
      I think what you're saying about short term and long term isn't so. But let's say for arguments sake it was. That still doesn't make discipline any better. He's not going to adopt her, he's not going to become her regular babysitter or teacher probably. We probably won't even see the kid for many chapters latter. Well next chapter will say for sure, if the author thinks the kid can be used as joke fuel by sticking around.  But regardless, Ted has no reason to think he will become any of those things for her, he's certainly given no indication of wanting to ask such a big favor of his boss. So regardless, it is going to be short term, whatever he does.

 

Discipline fits better here because he's asking Sheriff Evans to teach her niece how to act more lady-like and proper.

      Your suggesting more in the realm of acting more mature and selfless, like how a parent tries to raise a kid properly. Again, Ted wouldn't ask that of Evans, and if he did, he certainly wouldn't ask something so massive, so casual like, she isn't even Ted's kid to boot! And no, I don't read much of any of the rigid minded sexism that your suggesting in what Ted says. He does not say "lady like and proper", he says he wants her to grow up and be aware of her surroundings.

 

      So it should be admonish or something, not "discipline".

     And what about the first part? Instead of "If you agree to her request (to hear her request) .... Instead, "If you'll see her....", don't you see how that is better?

 

     I still say "If you'll see her, please admonish her." would work better

Edited by truepurple, 01 September 2017 - 03:17 AM.

[Stan Miller]

Jesus, folks! I translated this, I chose that word!

I liked it, I felt like it'd work, and I still do, so I chose it!!

End of discussion!

[hapa]

Yeah, I'm going to bow out of this conversation, I never meant to start an argument, just explain some of the changes we had made. You're looking way too deep into the undertones and vocabulary that are being used. As someone who spent four years in college proofreading my colleagues essays I think I have a pretty fair grasp on the written word.  Just enjoy it! It's a comedy manga for chrissakes! 

[truepurple]

@Stan Like it all you want, still wrong. Seems obstinacy more than rational guides your path.

 

Anyway, ch21 was funny! With saying he must like the girl to want to buy her something personal, and then to realize the gift was for her, how can she not know that he likes her? Well she finds out at the end and new chapters not released yet, but I figure she won't know yet.

Edited by truepurple, 07 September 2017 - 10:04 PM.

[truepurple]

Ch 22.

I don't understand how he was behaving cowardly. What would have been the brave way to act then?

[truepurple]

ch26 Wow the sheriff showed a ugly side on this chapter. he shouldn't need his fathers words echoing in his head to understand that a super vulnerable woman shouldn't be taken advantage of.  Yet that thought never crossed his mind till Oakley.

[truepurple]

ch28 Why was she grossed out?

[truepurple]

CH 29

LOL, what the hell with him considering drawing his gun on a woman for having a drink poured on his head though. If they do something like that, it's pretty obvious such a person isn't a deadly threat.