13 replies to this topic

[Question]

This is getting way too common. People are uploading chapters and deliberately skipping some...why? To troll? I don't know, but it certaintly looks like it. Whatever their intention is, the end result is people going "meh can't be bothered reading this on batoto if there are missing chapters" and going to another site which does have the chapters.

 

http://vatoto.com/comic/_/comics/i-am-a-hero-r907?st=25#commentsStart

 

Look at how many missing chapters there are for this series for example. They are translated, other sites have them the uploader won't upload them here or respond to PMs about it. Not a unique occurence either...it's getting common to see people uploading random chapters on batoto with gaps in between.

 

Chapter 1 missing : http://vatoto.com/comic/_/comics/chuan-yue-xi-yuan-3000-hou-r19542

 

No author tag, no artist tag, no description either. Just could not be bothered apparently.

 

Chapter 1 missing, rest of translated chapters missing : http://vatoto.com/comic/_/comics/trans-trans-r10435

 

Honestly, who uploads one chapter for a new series on batoto...but uploads only chapter 2 but not chapter 1? This is pretty obvious trolling, like the time someone uploaded a chapter for Jitsu Wa Watashi Wa that was 30+ chapters ahead of the last translated chapter.

 

What next, people uploading half translated ms painted chapters and then saying "cbf go fix it yourself"?

 

There really needs to be some QC rules for uploaders because way too many uploaders are just uploading random chapters to get a kick out of it, re-direct people to other sites which do have the full chapters, or whatever other dumb reason they are doing it for.

 

If you are uploading chapters for a new series with no information you should need to include author/artist tags and a proper description (not just some generic one liner like "The new hit comedy from xxx!"). Any uploader who is uploading translated chapters has access to that information in the first place, so there really is no excuse other than "can't be bothered".

 

Uploaders shouldn't be allowed to skip chapters either. If there are 5 chapters translated and you only upload chapter 2 and walk away...it's pretty obvious you are trolling. Same goes for troll groups trying to spoil series by uploading chapters far ahead of previous translated chapters like what happened with Jitsu Wa Watashi Wa (e.g. chapter 10 is the last chapter translated, troll group translates chapter 30 and tries to trick people into reading it so that they will get spoiled).

Edited by Question, 05 August 2016 - 03:24 PM.

[Daktyl]

1. Regarding "I Am a Hero", those missing chapters were uploaded to Batoto but are currently locked for some reason. I don't personally know why they were locked (AKA the chapters are unavailable to the public) but I could ask around if it helps. As for the uploader, KidCongo is not a part of Illuminati-Manga and doesn't know anything about their uploading habits, he just tends to upload chapters a lot for people/groups (I've never really asked why).

 

2. Regarding the missing 1st chapters, I've visited the website of the group that did http://vatoto.com/comic/_/comics/chuan-yue-xi-yuan-3000-hou-r19542 and they don't even have a download link for chapter 1, leading me to believe that the uploader only added what he could to Batoto and didn't have the file for chapter 1. As for the series info, I've taken what I could from other sites (though, even MangaUpdates is blank so I can't be sure of the validity) and filled it in.

 

As for trans-trans, the group states on their site that chapter 1 was done by a different group (that hasn't uploaded the chapter to Batoto) so it's not their fault and they're not trying to troll, it's just that chapter 2 is all they personally have to offer

[Chocolate Chip]

You know that the people uploading are just regular users, right? They can't upload chapters they don't have. If it bothers you, why don't YOU go find the chapters and upload them, instead of complaining that the efforts of others aren't good enough for you.

[Question]

You know that the people uploading are just regular users, right? They can't upload chapters they don't have. If it bothers you, why don't YOU go find the chapters and upload them, instead of complaining that the efforts of others aren't good enough for you.

 

1. Regarding "I Am a Hero", those missing chapters were uploaded to Batoto but are currently locked for some reason. I don't personally know why they were locked (AKA the chapters are unavailable to the public) but I could ask around if it helps. As for the uploader, KidCongo is not a part of Illuminati-Manga and doesn't know anything about their uploading habits, he just tends to upload chapters a lot for people/groups (I've never really asked why).

 

2. Regarding the missing 1st chapters, I've visited the website of the group that did http://vatoto.com/comic/_/comics/chuan-yue-xi-yuan-3000-hou-r19542 and they don't even have a download link for chapter 1, leading me to believe that the uploader only added what he could to Batoto and didn't have the file for chapter 1. As for the series info, I've taken what I could from other sites (though, even MangaUpdates is blank so I can't be sure of the validity) and filled it in.

 

As for trans-trans, the group states on their site that chapter 1 was done by a different group (that hasn't uploaded the chapter to Batoto) so it's not their fault and they're not trying to troll, it's just that chapter 2 is all they personally have to offer

 

1. Thats interesting, what are some reason chapters could get locked?

 

2. It's true that the translator's site doesn't have links to chapter 1 for whatever reason, although chapter 1 is readily available elsewhere like here : http://kissmanga.io/chapters/chuan-yue-xi-yuan-3000-hou-ch-1.htmland the credits page says its done by the same mystic crescent group that did the other chapters. The point i wanted to make is that if an uploader wants to upload chapter 2 for a new series, he should only do so after uploading chapter 1. Rather than someone uploading random chapters and having gaps in a series's chapters listing (which serves no legitimate purpose), it's better to have a chapter listing with no gaps in between.

 

Most users that find a series with missing chapters are just going to search for the series name and end up reading it somewhere else that doesn't have missing chapters, so from the site's perspective it's best to not have uploaders doing this. It doesn't benefit the site, it doesn't benefit the users, and it doesn't benefit the uploader unless they are doing this on purpose.

 

Also, any uploader that isn't a bot of some kind and wants to upload chapters for a new series obviously have access to basic information like the artist/author names and can write a basic description for the series. Rather than leaving it blank, it should be the bare minimum information needed to create a new series listing on batoto.

 

It's really basic QC to improve the quality of the site. It doesn't reflect well on the site itself when people keep seeing series with missing chapters/blank series data everywhere and the end result is people moving away from batoto to read it somewhere that doesn't have missing chapters.

 

Sure, others can technically do it, but that's not going to happen, nor should it happen in the first place, because it's encouraging a culture of "CBF" (like now) where we end up with missing chapters and series data all over the place because "meh someone else can fix it, i can't be bothered". It's like someone uploading a chapter where only the first page is translated and then going "Yea you guys can translate the rest".

 

There also really needs to be a rule against people intentionally uploading chapters way ahead of the current translated ones to try and trick readers into getting spoiled. That is blatant trolling there. It's no different from what happened when people acted like immature kids and ran around yelling "DUMBLEDORE DIES!!!!" in public.

You know that the people uploading are just regular users, right? They can't upload chapters they don't have. If it bothers you, why don't YOU go find the chapters and upload them, instead of complaining that the efforts of others aren't good enough for you.

 

Those are chapters that they do have, as i just proved (see above).

 

There is no reason whatsoever that an uploader should be expecting people to come in and fix his shoddy uploads, with missing chapters and series data everywhere. That is extreme laziness. It's not a matter of it being free or being professional, but doing the bare minimum. If you can't be bothered to do that, you shouldn't be allowed to upload and make a mess of things. The end result of people not even bothering to upload chapters in the correct order or including basic series data is that people just shrug and end up going to other sites which don't have this problem...which ends up with batoto losing traffic to sites that do enforce some minimum quality standards.

 

Just because you upload some chapters doesn't give you the right to yell about how you are doing a service for free and that no complaints are allowed. I mean, anyone can do that :

 

>upload random chapter

>for extra trolling, it consists of some google translated lines that are ms painted onto the pages

>make a big deal of how im doing this for free

>yell at everyone that they can do a better job if they want to

>keep doing this to drive as many users away from batoto as possible

 

The content on this site should be above that of some random myspace blog that consists of some guy throwing together random images and then yelling at everyone that it's free and a massive service to the whole world. Just because something is "free" does not give you a licence to be a massive dick about it...i'm sure you would have plenty of complaints if i fried up some feces and served it to you for free.

 

To use a real world analogy : You have the LOTR trilogy. You bring it over to a party so that everyone can watch it, but you deliberately leave out movies 1 and 2. Someone askes why you didn't bring those...you then proceed to act like a massive dick because "You guys get to watch this for free! Stop complaining! Go buy the blu-rays yourself if you want to watch it! How dare you complain that you are getting this for free!" and keep throwing a massive tantrum.

 

P.S. If you don't like anything that i said, keep in mind that you didn't pay for it so you can't complain either.

Edited by Question, 03 August 2016 - 03:46 PM.

[Caek]

There are several valid points that you do indeed bring up here, but they're nowhere near enough to support your argument for this proposal.

 

Chapters are usually locked or removed when there is an officially licensed version of the series. Moreover, part of the philosophy of Batoto, if one can call it that, is to respect the wishes of scanlators. Thus, permission is typically NOT ASSUMED, for reuploading to this site. Explicit permission is the go-to, 'round these parts.

 

Moving on (dear god your post is just a list), most users already read series elsewhere, and several aggregator sites pull from Batoto. When I upload a chapter that I've translated here, I normally see it on other sites within an hour. Again, Batoto is geared towards scanlators: if you consider users as scanlators, then the system certainly does benefit them by giving them an easy to use, convenient place to upload.

 

Now, the idea of requiring certain fields in a new series has been brought up before, but the suggestion has a number of important considerations that must be addressed:

1) How do we handle fringe cases where the original author is unknown, etc?

2) What should the "bare minimum information" be, and how is it enforceable?

3) Increasing barriers to entry versus effectiveness - what's to stop someone from making a new series with "lorem ipsum" input fields?

 

Motioning that this is "really basic QC to improve the quality of the site" is not sufficient reasoning for your proposed cost-benefit analysis. Again, most people read off of aggregator sites, and Batoto is not actively trying to cater to those people (though they are welcome all the same).

 

On people intentionally uploading - HEY YOU SHOULD HAVE REALLY SPOILER TAGGED THAT YOU KNOW.

 

*ahem* I think you'd have a hard time deducing intent from a chapter upload. Sometimes people want to see the ending, or to prod at the main translation group to hurry up: it may not be kosher, but I'm hungry nonetheless (and I love pork). Either way, I also feel obligated to mention that real world vs. internet analogies tend to fail, insofar that they completely fail to acknowledge how wondrous and magical the internet is. I'm fairly certain where ever this party is being held, you would not be grossly exceeding legal occupancy limits. Also, Netflix.

 

I tell ya, the internet is literally magic. So much anime and manga!

~ Caek

 

 

EDIT -  Added more text to substantiate my claim on how Batoto benefits scanlators.

Edited by Caek, 03 August 2016 - 06:07 PM.

[svines85]

Spoiler

1. Thats interesting, what are some reason chapters could get locked?

 

2. It's true that the translator's site doesn't have links to chapter 1 for whatever reason, although chapter 1 is readily available elsewhere like here : http://kissmanga.io/chapters/chuan-yue-xi-yuan-3000-hou-ch-1.htmland the credits page says its done by the same mystic crescent group that did the other chapters. The point i wanted to make is that if an uploader wants to upload chapter 2 for a new series, he should only do so after uploading chapter 1. Rather than someone uploading random chapters and having gaps in a series's chapters listing (which serves no legitimate purpose), it's better to have a chapter listing with no gaps in between.

 

Most users that find a series with missing chapters are just going to search for the series name and end up reading it somewhere else that doesn't have missing chapters, so from the site's perspective it's best to not have uploaders doing this. It doesn't benefit the site, it doesn't benefit the users, and it doesn't benefit the uploader unless they are doing this on purpose.

 

Also, any uploader that isn't a bot of some kind and wants to upload chapters for a new series obviously have access to basic information like the artist/author names and can write a basic description for the series. Rather than leaving it blank, it should be the bare minimum information needed to create a new series listing on batoto.

 

It's really basic QC to improve the quality of the site. It doesn't reflect well on the site itself when people keep seeing series with missing chapters/blank series data everywhere and the end result is people moving away from batoto to read it somewhere that doesn't have missing chapters.

 

Sure, others can technically do it, but that's not going to happen, nor should it happen in the first place, because it's encouraging a culture of "CBF" (like now) where we end up with missing chapters and series data all over the place because "meh someone else can fix it, i can't be bothered". It's like someone uploading a chapter where only the first page is translated and then going "Yea you guys can translate the rest".

 

There also really needs to be a rule against people intentionally uploading chapters way ahead of the current translated ones to try and trick readers into getting spoiled. That is blatant trolling there. It's no different from what happened when people acted like immature kids and ran around yelling "DUMBLEDORE DIES!!!!" in public.

 

Those are chapters that they do have, as i just proved (see above).

 

There is no reason whatsoever that an uploader should be expecting people to come in and fix his shoddy uploads, with missing chapters and series data everywhere. That is extreme laziness. It's not a matter of it being free or being professional, but doing the bare minimum. If you can't be bothered to do that, you shouldn't be allowed to upload and make a mess of things. The end result of people not even bothering to upload chapters in the correct order or including basic series data is that people just shrug and end up going to other sites which don't have this problem...which ends up with batoto losing traffic to sites that do enforce some minimum quality standards.

 

Just because you upload some chapters doesn't give you the right to yell about how you are doing a service for free and that no complaints are allowed. I mean, anyone can do that :

 

>upload random chapter

>for extra trolling, it consists of some google translated lines that are ms painted onto the pages

>make a big deal of how im doing this for free

>yell at everyone that they can do a better job if they want to

>keep doing this to drive as many users away from batoto as possible

 

The content on this site should be above that of some random myspace blog that consists of some guy throwing together random images and then yelling at everyone that it's free and a massive service to the whole world. Just because something is "free" does not give you a licence to be a massive dick about it...i'm sure you would have plenty of complaints if i fried up some feces and served it to you for free.

 

To use a real world analogy : You have the LOTR trilogy. You bring it over to a party so that everyone can watch it, but you deliberately leave out movies 1 and 2. Someone askes why you didn't bring those...you then proceed to act like a massive dick because "You guys get to watch this for free! Stop complaining! Go buy the blu-rays yourself if you want to watch it! How dare you complain that you are getting this for free!" and keep throwing a massive tantrum.

 

P.S. If you don't like anything that i said, keep in mind that you didn't pay for it so you can't complain either.

 

Heh.......wow

 

Yeah, good luck with all that >_<

 

Just a hint, you seriously might want to try not taking something that's essentially nothing but a hobbyist activity meant to be entertaining and enjoyable so seriously that you end up feeling the necessity to compose 1,000+ word diatribes about it.

 

Everybody's just here to have a good time, fella. If you wanna take part in helping out, have at it, but don't start slinging mud just because you're feeling pissy.

[Halo]

"Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."
- Batoto, 1970-2016

[Question]

Heh.......wow

 

Yeah, good luck with all that >_<

 

Just a hint, you seriously might want to try not taking something that's essentially nothing but a hobbyist activity meant to be entertaining and enjoyable so seriously that you end up feeling the necessity to compose 1,000+ word diatribes about it.

 

Everybody's just here to have a good time, fella. If you wanna take part in helping out, have at it, but don't start slinging mud just because you're feeling pissy.

 

Thats not an excuse. Posting here is a free activity too. So, should we allow people to spam the forums? It's free and an entertaining activity after all. Nobody is going to use a forum if it's full of spam threads that basically go "lol u tk him 2 da bar???", just like how nobody is going to read a series that has missing chapters here.

 

The basic point that im making is that missing chapters and missing series data is driving people away to other sites. All because uploaders cannot be bothered to do basic things like upload chapters in sequential order that they have access to or edit the series listing to include things like artist/author tags. Literally the only reason they have is "i can't be bothered to". That is not a valid reason for driving people away to other sites. Uploaders should not be expecting people to do basic things for them...if you like, i could start uploading troll chapters that only include one translated page and one credits page that says "go get the rest of the chapter elsewhere because i can't be bothered to upload anymore than this LOL" to illustrate my point. It doesn't appear to be the rules and after all...nobody can complain because it's for free right?

 

It's not going to kill anyone to upload chapters in a proper order or include series data...this is really basic stuff, like signing up for a forum and including a username to do so or posting here in basic english. Improving the quality of the series on batoto would greatly benefit everyone...i'm sure batoto staff want to see more people use the site as opposed to everyone visting a series page and then going "the fuck? why is this missing chapters? meh, i'm going to go read this on some other site instead". Nobody is going to skip chapter 1 and start reading chapter 2 on batoto, they are going to start reading it from chapter 1 on another site instead. Nobody is asking you to do something actually difficult, like re-translating chapters or fixing bad typesetting. These are basic expectations of uploading chapters...like posting here in this forum in readable english, instead of something that looks like it came from a chinese spam bot.

 

Can anyone come up with a legitimate counter reason for why people shouldn't have to follow basic QC rules when uploading, other than "yea i can't be bothered to do that"? Because that's really not a legitimate excuse for lowering the quality of series on the site and driving people away to other sites.

 

And as i mentioned, this includes preventing groups from trolling by trying to trick people into reading spoilers. There's already a rule that says you have to use spoiler tags when commenting, to prevent people from getting spoiled. But there's a loophole in that there is nothing to stop you from deliberatley uploading spoiler chapters to achieve pretty much the same effect.

 

What im suggesting is hardly new, it's a basic rule in force on almost every other manga site out there for a reason, because otherwise the site would look more like some random myspace blog than something people want to use.

Edited by Question, 05 August 2016 - 03:22 PM.

[svines85]

Spoiler

Thats not an excuse. Posting here is a free activity too. So, should we allow people to spam the forums? It's free and an entertaining activity after all. Nobody is going to use a forum if it's full of spam threads that basically go "lol u tk him 2 da bar???", just like how nobody is going to read a series that has missing chapters here.

 

The basic point that im making is that missing chapters and missing series data is driving people away to other sites. All because uploaders cannot be bothered to do basic things like upload chapters in sequential order that they have access to or edit the series listing to include things like artist/author tags. Literally the only reason they have is "i can't be bothered to". That is not a valid reason for driving people away to other sites. Uploaders should not be expecting people to do basic things for them...if you like, i could start uploading troll chapters that only include one translated page and one credits page that says "go get the rest of the chapter elsewhere because i can't be bothered to upload anymore than this LOL" to illustrate my point. It doesn't appear to be the rules and after all...nobody can complain because it's for free right?

 

It's not going to kill anyone to upload chapters in a proper order or include series data...this is really basic stuff, like signing up for a forum and including a username to do so or posting here in basic english. Improving the quality of the series on batoto would greatly benefit everyone...i'm sure batoto staff want to see more people use the site as opposed to everyone visting a series page and then going "the fuck? why is this missing chapters? meh, i'm going to go read this on some other site instead". Nobody is going to skip chapter 1 and start reading chapter 2 on batoto, they are going to start reading it from chapter 1 on another site instead. Nobody is asking you to do something actually difficult, like re-translating chapters or fixing bad typesetting. These are basic expectations of uploading chapters...like posting here in this forum in readable english, instead of something that looks like it came from a chinese spam bot.

 

Can anyone come up with a legitimate counter reason for why people shouldn't have to follow basic QC rules when uploading, other than "yea i can't be bothered to do that"? Because that's really not a legitimate excuse for lowering the quality of series on the site and driving people away to other sites.

 

And as i mentioned, this includes preventing groups from trolling by trying to trick people into reading spoilers. There's already a rule that says you have to use spoiler tags when commenting, to prevent people from getting spoiled. But there's a loophole in that there is nothing to stop you from deliberatley uploading spoiler chapters to achieve pretty much the same effect.

 

What im suggesting is hardly new, it's a basic rule in force on almost every other manga site out there for a reason, because otherwise the site would look more like some random myspace blog than something people want to use.

The world is just an imperfect place, and that's all there is to it. We should all try to make things better so that we can then be content with the knowledge that,  we at least, tried our best to fix the things we saw as wrong, and then either accept the situation or walk away.

 

You came here with a, quite obviously, very angry and accusatory demeanor, directed at your fellow members and complete volunteers. I'm sorry you're unhappy and all, but you just can't act like that and expect to accomplish anything when trying to work with people.

[Eon Alaet]

What we'd need is a reliable search engine for the latest chapters, and a contribution per year for the users of bato.to as this would make so that we whom use this website regurlarly and solely this website for reading manga as a hobby would create  a community of people whom'd support directly the mangakas that deliver and create so much for our eyes over the years of their lives.

I propose that this would be put in place after 2016 as to support the ones whom make us dream.

 

Eon Alaet

 

My comments do not support bato.to nor any third party out there, just a respectable thought towards the ones that make us believe in ourselves.

[caffarella]

What we'd need is a reliable search engine for the latest chapters

sir..
your suggestion are directing batoto into aggregator sites policy there.. taking chapters as they like.. without single care about scanlator

did you do realize that :

Quoting from above comment by Caek
part of the philosophy of Batoto, if one can call it that, is to respect the wishes of scanlators.

------------------------------

now about the QC for uploaders..
few fact need to be look on before taking this seriously..

1. missing chapters doesn't always equal trolling, uploaders maybe don't have materials, or corrupted to be uploaded, or any other reason possible here..
2. some uploaders/scanlators have their own policy, some scanlators even purposely delay their release on bato.to.. this fact may also drive them away from bato.to
3. some source are no longer available on previous legitimate source..
say a manga with 3 chapter scanlated so far, but the at the moment uploader check it out, scanlation sites only 2 chap can be retrieved by uploaders (missing chapter 1)

4. now about the author name or artist or any other data fields there, rather than ranting about empty fields, it;s thousand times better to google it down, put it on forum and ask mod for editing, thus you actually contribute to better side of bato.to community.
Ranting or making rules won't solve the problems, as uploaders maybe too tired already (or maybe lazy or wtf reason there), at least uploaders already contributed to community by providing chapters, even incomplete state of data.. better than you who did nothing so far.

[Crazy Apple]

Not gonna respond to this, this aint no mangafox golddigging website. Those 'popular' websites just rip manga of scanlators' websites and host it themselves. Quality and resource don't matter there, as long it's a full list. If you're lookin for that, go read there. 

 

As Caffarella said;

 

Ranting or making rules won't solve the problems, as uploaders maybe too tired already (or maybe lazy or wtf reason there), at least uploaders already contributed to community by providing chapters, even incomplete state of data.. better than you who did nothing so far.

[OchaMeido❣]

Best Answer

"We need quality control rules for uploaders"

 

Just want to say there is already quality control rules in places at Batoto. That is what we the staffs are here for.

To makes sure that both the scanlation of the releases and the scanlation group itself is both respected and reliable

in every way possible, we moderate all uploads before it is shown to the public. 

 

There are  contributor members whose releases we trust to be released without our moderation as we have seen their uploads before. 

but if there is any mistakes in the chap order, credits,  any concerns about the comic itself, we have a place where members can 

ask us(the staff) or the community regarding it *points to quality Assurance Section* or if you have any concerns regarding members

spoiling the ending or any disputes stuff in any comics'comment section, we have comment  section takedown at quality assurance section too.

 

There are comment section rules here at batoto. Though it is hard for us (staffs) to moderate all comments, we try our best. But if 

any one come across a bad one, and you report it , we can handle it as soon as possible. 

 

Members are not allow to upload trolls or any fake chaps. we dont allow such and if found, the members will have consequences .

fake credit pages or very bad bad quality will result in take-down of chaps if it havent already been done so.

 

our comic pages are wiki-style where members can edit any part of the comic information such as author/alternative names/ artist/

comic's title , comic's avatar image/ and description(summary) , as long as it is true to the comic.

 

Batoto have no control over any group's release such as the watermarks and their credit pages.  Batoto have its own upload 

criteria . some comic have no chapters or isnt  allow to be uploaded due to those criteria. 

[kavinh]

The OP for this is an entitled prick he's called at least 2 translators "trolls" for skipping over chapters covered in the anime and thanks to that one of the projects was literally dropped.