7 replies to this topic

[Whisper801]

I do want the topic to be about discussing media that uses gaming as their genre in general but I'll start the opening post with this:

 

The boom of using gaming as a foundation for authors to use for their story in manga or novels actually has an amusing starting point of why it became rather popular. It's not because of .Hack or the timing of when Sword Art Online got released but rather due to a different trend. There's actually quite a lot of novels that have their rough draft or web novel version release within a year or few between each other. Which is why it isn't because of a series that start it all that most people use in their arguments when comparing one series to another.

 

Who here has enjoyed watching a walkthrough of a video game they like when they got stuck to it? When has it gotten to a point where you like the uploader's execution or how they entertain you while you're watching them where it's gotten to the point you watch playthroughs as well? Or the reason why one would watch a playthrough of a game you couldn't get to play because of money or seeing if that game is worth buying. Interesting enough, the trend of watching other people play video games started to align with when those authors started using gaming as a genre for their manga/novels.

 

I notice how experiencing a MC of this genre has a similar feeling of watching your favorite uploader play video games. While the immersion is similar to watching playthrough of a game you haven't played before. It's probably due to this trend that the audience started to catch on to the stories with the gaming genre.

 

I would call gaming a genre now due to how it can be used as a foundation like sci-fi, fantasy and such. Different countries also have their own style for the use of this genre like any other genre as well. You can see and enjoy the sense of different cultures between how Korea, China and Japan portrays this genre.  Like the interesting contrast between Legendary Moonlight Sculptor and Ark that doesn't conflict with each other. Especially learning at the start how Ark was inspired by Legendary Moonlight Sculptor according to the author of Ark. The settings are similar along with certain scenarios, but the two stories start to branch off with their own focus and styles as their stories goes on. While The King's Avatar is refreshing to read since it shows how a story with the gaming genre doesn't always have to be a VRMMO but takes place with your standard PC gaming.

[Caek]

Good points. As you alluded to them before, Let's Plays are a prime example of this, from Pewdiepie to whatever that twelve-year old wearing that Minecraft shirt thinks he's doing. Point is, games are widespread and generally accepted. (+eSports)

 

So what's so great about the subject of video games for creators of light novelists and comics writers?

 

Imagine the game of your dreams. Think of all the awesome things it would have... Bustling cities, dynamic NPCs, the ability to interact with everything in the world... Hell, even the ability to become the leader of a settlement like Weed-nim.

 

Write down your ideas. Now, looking over your blueprint, could you possibly ever make this happen on your own?

Chances are, no - it's just a pipe dream. But the wonderful thing is, many people play video games. They will understand what you're talking about, and wish for similar advancements in video games.

 

Let's all dream together folks,

~ Caek

 

P.S. - Cataclysm: DDA is best game.

[cmertb]

I've missed out on much of this boom, but the works I do remember from this genre all revolve more around the concept of being stuck in virtual reality than gaming itself (.hack/sign, SAO, Log Horizon). In fact, there is nothing about those works that resembles MMO gaming (grind grind grind take the next level do quest grind grind grind). Had they been true to genre, they would have been even more boring than they ended up.

 

Now, the concept of being stuck in virtual reality in western sci fi predates the current boom in East Asia by at least a couple of decades.

[Whisper801]

I've missed out on much of this boom, but the works I do remember from this genre all revolve more around the concept of being stuck in virtual reality than gaming itself (.hack/sign, SAO, Log Horizon). In fact, there is nothing about those works that resembles MMO gaming (grind grind grind take the next level do quest grind grind grind). Had they been true to genre, they would have been even more boring than they ended up.

 

Now, the concept of being stuck in virtual reality in western sci fi predates the current boom in East Asia by at least a couple of decades.

 

There's actually around 15 and probably even more that I haven't found yet. The ones you've listed indeed revolve around getting trapped in a Virtual World. Well... A few of the .Hack's series are VR (In the later series) while some are pseudo-ish and one of them was connecting to the game via PC/Console. 

 

RE:Monster lightly taps into the gaming genre using the skill, mob, class,  and leveling system. However this doesn't take place in a game at all and the MC isn't "trapped" in this world as well. Log Horizon is where the game is actually another parallel world. However this isn't under "Stuck in a virtual reality" due to the world being an actual world and how the game its based off of is from a PC game and not from the VR console. However, The Alchemist God is similar to Log Horizon but the world is based off the story's VR game and not the PC console. I wouldn't say the world in The Alchemist God is a virtual world either since it follows the Xiaxian setting. Dungeon ni Deai wo Motomeru no wa Machigatteiru Darou ka uses the gaming genre as a foundation; with the exception being, that the world isn't a game at all and it's the Light Novel's real world. Tate no Yuusha no Nariagari is also similar to Log Horizon to where the MC travels to a parallel world that uses a game setting that isn't a game at all. Tensei Shitara Slime datta ken doesn't use the gaming genre but I would like to add that the gaming genre did influence "Traveling to another world" story setting. No Game No Life doesn't use an actual game foundation as a setting but uses games in general as a theme.

 

I never did said MMO Gaming as a genre but gaming itself as a genre since the works uses it as a foundation for its setting. That's the difference. A story doesn't have to be completely focused on one particular genre in order to be associated with it. Hence why I use tragedy as an example. Tragedy can either lightly or heavily influence the story of that media. Yet, it'll be tagged with that genre to tell the reader what's in that novel. Anyways, I should also list a few that are focus about gaming or MMO gaming.

 

- The King's Avatar is a gaming genre but doesn't even touch VR or being trapped in the game for its setting. It's all about the pro gaming scene and PC Gaming for the story's main MMO.

 

- The Legendary Moon Light Sculptor, Ark, and Ark - The Legend also doesn't touch "Stuck in a Virtual Reality". They are focus on making money of the VRMMO they're playing to pay off their debts and make a living from selling the game's gold and items.

 

- Virtual World: Unparalleled under the Sky shows the side effects of the story's main VRMMO on the MC's real life body.

 

All of these focuses more on MMO gaming. They have been true to their genre and the reader's opinions weren't about how boring these novels are. Infact, they thought they were rather interesting. The funny thing is, the gaming concepts they used in their VRMMOs is how they're not practical in real MMOs we play. It's not the VR portion either. One of them is how punishing the VRMMOs are in Ark and Ark - The Legend. Especially in Ark - The Legend where the players will rage quit from the VRMMO and never pick it up again. In Ark, it also tells you how a player can make another player quit the game due to how the game is set up. I wouldn't count Legendary Moon Light Sculptor due to its con is can be quite the grind but you can do other things in the game to relieve that grind. While The King's Avatar doesn't have any conflicting issues with it's PC MMO that I see that could work for an MMO that we could play. Even when the novel's game features aren't practical for real life MMOs they are used as a plot device to pull in the reader's interest.

Edited by Whisper801, 28 December 2015 - 09:27 PM.

[Fragile]

I see the "gaming world" genre as a kind of meta-meta-commentary on real life. I think writers are exploring the consequences of taking rpg mechanics literally, where originally things like levels and attributes were only representations of the effort a character has to invest in getting good at something.

 

Danmachi is my personal example of a work that does this. The gods come down to earth out of boredom and grant the people on the surface their blessing, which allows them to literally raise their attributes by honing their skills through training. The people undergoing the system didn't invent it: It's a set of laws and restrictions they're subjected to. At the same time, the idea of an "attribute" or a "level" is a concrete term that is mostly understood and the knowledge of the system is almost ubiquitously treated as common sense.

 

I also think that there are some people who would idealize an rpg system because it's easier to understand. In a video game, raising your STR means training by fighting monsters or lifting weights or taking a potion. In real life, just because you exercise a lot and diet properly, doesn't mean you can get stronger. Also, we reach our limits very easily. Getting stronger in a video game is very clear, simple, easy to understand and, relative to real life, much easier to achieve. In real life, doing the same is vague, because it's different for everyone and because we can't objectively quantify our attributes in comparison to other people.

 

Who's stronger? A guy who can life 300kg for 3 seconds or a guy who can lift 200 for 20 seconds?

 

Who's faster? A guy who can sprint 1km in 1 minute or a guy who can run 10km in 30 minutes?

 

What if you can raise your INT by lifting weights, and raise your STR by reading books?

[Whisper801]

I see the "gaming world" genre as a kind of meta-meta-commentary on real life. I think writers are exploring the consequences of taking rpg mechanics literally, where originally things like levels and attributes were only representations of the effort a character has to invest in getting good at something.

 

Danmachi is my personal example of a work that does this. The gods come down to earth out of boredom and grant the people on the surface their blessing, which allows them to literally raise their attributes by honing their skills through training. The people undergoing the system didn't invent it: It's a set of laws and restrictions they're subjected to. At the same time, the idea of an "attribute" or a "level" is a concrete term that is mostly understood and the knowledge of the system is almost ubiquitously treated as common sense.

 

I also think that there are some people who would idealize an rpg system because it's easier to understand. In a video game, raising your STR means training by fighting monsters or lifting weights or taking a potion. In real life, just because you exercise a lot and diet properly, doesn't mean you can get stronger. Also, we reach our limits very easily. Getting stronger in a video game is very clear, simple, easy to understand and, relative to real life, much easier to achieve. In real life, doing the same is vague, because it's different for everyone and because we can't objectively quantify our attributes in comparison to other people.

 

Who's stronger? A guy who can life 300kg for 3 seconds or a guy who can lift 200 for 20 seconds?

 

Who's faster? A guy who can sprint 1km in 1 minute or a guy who can run 10km in 30 minutes?

 

What if you can raise your INT by lifting weights, and raise your STR by reading books?

 

I do find the phrase meta-meta interesting since that does fit quite nicely to what the gaming world genre is like. With the usage of stats, exp, leveling and gaming mechanics that everyone is familiar with, the story's foundation can be quite flexible. It's also fun to read how creative the author can be with the usage of that foundation.

 

Stats can also have the same dilemma that you talked about. Like the "A guy who can lift 300kg for 3 seconds or a guy who can lift 200 for 20 seconds?" In LMS and Ark, stats do signify strength but real life experience has greatly influence their battle strength. Such as Weed being able to prepare phyically before tackling the VR world or Ark's mentor who trained him to be a martial super man. UUTS (Virtual World: Unparalleled under the Sky) also focuses on the player's reaction speed as their actual strength where stats or ways to gain stats other than leveling are that back up for them. While it's the opposite in The King's Avatar where the MC is getting older so his waning mechanical speed for PC gaming is affecting him. But he makes up for it for his vast experience and wit.

 

Edit: Fixing a bit of grammar that was bugging me.

Edited by Whisper801, 31 December 2015 - 09:31 PM.

[Fragile]

I do find the phrase meta-meta since that does fit quite nicely to what the gaming world genre is like.

Core RPG mechanics are themselves a meta-commentary on real life individual development, so applying that sort of logic literately (as in "literature") is almost like a meta-commentary on that. Hence "meta-meta".
 
"Experience", "level", "attribute" and "skill" are themselves abstractions of "age", "accumulated wisdom", and "physiological ability", and the "gaming genre" of fictional storytelling is an abstraction of an abstraction.
 

With the usage of stats, exp, leveling and gaming mechanics that everyone is familiar with, the story's foundation can be quite flexible. It's also fun to read how creative the author can be with the usage of that foundation. Stats can also have the same dilemma that you talked about. Like the "A guy who can lift 300kg for 3 seconds or a guy who can lift 200 for 20 seconds?"

The RPG world is awfully convenient compared to real life. But on the other hand, some of us also want to explore our own ideal mechanics for an RPG. Because the laws of an RPG world are fictional and invented by the minds of the author, or rather because we can change those laws at will, it's really interesting to explore someone else's interpretations of trope and convention.

[Whisper801]

Core RPG mechanics are themselves a meta-commentary on real life individual development, so applying that sort of logic literately (as in "literature") is almost like a meta-commentary on that. Hence "meta-meta".
 
"Experience", "level", "attribute" and "skill" are themselves abstractions of "age", "accumulated wisdom", and "physiological ability", and the "gaming genre" of fictional storytelling is an abstraction of an abstraction.

 

Exactly on point.

 

The RPG world is awfully convenient compared to real life. But on the other hand, some of us also want to explore our own ideal mechanics for an RPG. Because the laws of an RPG world are fictional and invented by the minds of the author, or rather because we can change those laws at will, it's really interesting to explore someone else's interpretations of trope and convention.

 

Now that I think of it, I guess this is another reason why people would like playthrough/let's plays because we're experiencing another person's interpretation as they play the video game.