41 replies to this topic

[repairman1988]

Ok, so I'm not making this post as a bash against her character (which im sure theres a lot of). I'm trying to understand how she even makes sense in the story.

 

My thing is, she is so ridculously weak it makes the entire character/plots involved with her unbelieveable. She literally has zero powers. Why/How does she keep getting these uber team mates? It makes very little sense to me. Any character in the entire tower could kill her, why follow her? It at least made sense when she was with Khun, they were keeping an eye on her. But with her new teammates and FUG, it makes zero sense why they are even working with her when she is so incredibly powerless. I wish she was strong or had some secret power to explain it but damn its aggravating how they keep pushing her on us and making her out to be some brilliant strategist when shes a major nobody. Is FUG using her to keep Bam going up the tower? I really want to understand how she makes sense in the story and why anyone is following her. The way the guide (red head, i always mess her name up :x) talks about her in some uber menacing threatening way just makes me face palm. Why exactly should they be scared of her? Why should Bam "get stronger to stand up tall before her"? Shes literally been baby sat and spoon fed each floor. I can see fearing her team, but to fear her? I'm just not understanding..

 

TLDR- Why is anyone following Rachel at this point? How did she become the leader of the hell train group/fug group during the workshop battle? 

 

Thanks guys. Few manga have been this much of a page turner.

Edited by repairman1988, 07 December 2014 - 11:22 PM.

[salvatore]

That's the million dollar question. 

[repairman1988]

I thought i was missing something in the bad translations I've been reading lol. My closest guess is that FUG is using her to make sure Bam goes up the tower. Its almost absurd how weak she is compared to those around her. Why Bam even wants to follow after her after getting stabbed and betrayed is beyond me too. 

[salvatore]

I thought i was missing something in the bad translations I've been reading lol. My closest guess is that FUG is using her to make sure Bam goes up the tower. Its almost absurd how weak she is compared to those around her. Why Bam even wants to follow after her after getting stabbed and betrayed is beyond me too. 

Well, we knew Fug were using her to make Baam go up, but lately, after this whole Rachel knowing Baam being alive and telling Yura Ha about him, i am doubting they are using her as the way we think, it feels like SIU is trying hard to make her the one pulling the strings.

[Random-Webtoon-Fan]

Rachel have zero powers? Whoever said that? Last time closest to we actually saw her in action, she was doing pretty well as Lightbearer even though she had no fucking idea how anything in Tower worked. And that was like 4 years in real time and 8 years in Tower.


And besides fighting power, now she has Emile which she have already used to manipulate others she never heard of or met into murder. Also she was a great actor, playing leg broken for years. Who knows what she will do when they actually meet.

Edited by Random-Webtoon-Fan, 08 December 2014 - 01:06 AM.

[Grincourt]

Thing is, we don't know if Rachel is truly powerless/talentless. All we know is that she couldn't defeat the steel eel which was something no one just coming into the tower could accomplish or the fact that she doesn't have the level of insanity(will strength) it takes to risk your life in a task where you have almost zero chance of winning.

Besides SIU said that Rachel is very charismatic/likable so it's not shocking she's able to gather allies within FUG. I'm sure Baam could've easily gained followers within FUG if he didn't have his specific personality.

In a way I guess you can say she's similar to Baam when it comes to bring people to her side.

Besides I'm sure there are High Rankers who are funding her out of greed or just like her in the way Jinsung likes Baam

[The_Graceful_Lobster]

I think FUG's endgame is to transfer Baams powers to Rachel and have Rachel kill Zahard. I think this will be done with the red exoskeleton thing, which i think is like a parasite. The parasite is being attached to his shinsoo. When Baams powers have matured enough they will rip the parasite out, which will take Baams powers with it and they will put it into Rachel. The thorn, now accustomed to Baams shinsoo, will then be transferred to Rachel for her to use. D:

[Algis]

I think the only reason why Rachel is climbing the Tower, and with the assistance of strong Regulars, is because of her contract with Headon.

 

I think the contracts formed with the Guardians are absolute. Even the Guardians can't cancel their contracts. Headon made the promise to Rachel that he would help her climb the Tower, and that's what he's doing, with the help of FUG.

 

Since Zahard's administration started to eliminate all the dangerous candidates, because they don't want powerful beings bringing chaos to the Tower, Headon, in the name of the Guardians, formed and alliance with FUG, to protect the Irregulars like Baam. The Guardians use FUG to protect the irregular candidates and FUG can recrute them to kill Zahard. It's a win-win deal.

 

Rachel was the only reason why Baam entered the Tower and started his ascension. Headon realized very quickly that Rachel was the key to motivate Baam in climbing the Tower, so he formed a contract with her. He uses FUG to provide Rachel everything she needs, and as long as she climbs, Baam will follow her.

 

At least, it's what I think.

Edited by Algis, 08 December 2014 - 02:23 PM.

[Fairy King Harlequin]

There's exactly no evidence that Rachel is weak and have no powers.

 

The question is would you be able to accept Rachel if she was indeed powerful?

Edited by Fairy King Harlequin, 08 December 2014 - 10:30 PM.

[repairman1988]

I think FUG's endgame is to transfer Baams powers to Rachel and have Rachel kill Zahard. I think this will be done with the red exoskeleton thing, which i think is like a parasite. The parasite is being attached to his shinsoo. When Baams powers have matured enough they will rip the parasite out, which will take Baams powers with it and they will put it into Rachel. The thorn, now accustomed to Baams shinsoo, will then be transferred to Rachel for her to use. D:

Wait..red exoskeleton? Are you talking about the thorn? You think its a parasite? o.o

There's exactly no evidence that Rachel is weak and have no powers.

 

The question is would you be able to accept Rachel if she was indeed powerful?

 

I would definitely accept it..the entire point of my post was asking if I missed something during reading it. Seeing as how shes only maniupulated her way through so far and never really defended herself or won a fight, thats what I'm baseing my observations on. It would be kind of weird if she waited until the mid 30 floors to start being a badass though..Again, the hardest part to understand about this series is why anyone is following her and it hasnt really been explained. I don't really like the above guys explanation that shes just weirdly good at recruiting people,  I would side more with how Salvatore explained that its a giant question that will be answered later on. 

 

Btw whatever that is in your sig looks flipping amazing haha

Edited by repairman1988, 09 December 2014 - 02:13 AM.

[aszr]

There's exactly no evidence that Rachel is weak and have no powers.

 

The question is would you be able to accept Rachel if she was indeed powerful?

 

No.

For me, the reason why Rachel's a really good antagonist is because she is weak. She is not brave or not that special.

She didn't want Baam to take the test on the first floor because she couldn't either.

Spoiler

 

She didn't want Baam to climb the tower because she wasn't the chosen one by the tower.

Spoiler

 

She doesn't want anyone be more special, faster (Dan), happier etc. than her. That's why she is doing all this things and that's why she won't have any friends because of this things and that's why she only wants to achieve her goal.
 

Spoiler

 

 

First season's epilogue is the reason why i got into ToG. And Rachel is the one of the main reasons why first season's epilogue was so epic.

[Fairy King Harlequin]

No.

For me, the reason why Rachel's a really good antagonist is because she is weak. She is not brave or not that special.

She's not an antagonist. There's no good or bad in Tower of God. If anything SIU declared her a protagonist.

[repairman1988]

Whatever she is antagonist or protagonist, I really hope he starts dropping more clues as to why this insane team started working with her or how she shifted to the leader of the workshop item battle. Everyone was betrayed and attacked except her, she just kind of joined in with FUG when the speed guy (forget his name) walked in to them killing the bird. Now shes calling all the shots...makes no sense...I highly doubt she "manipulated" her way into a team with FUG and somehow made them work for her. Theres just no reason to that has been revealed yet. 

[Fairy King Harlequin]

Wait..red exoskeleton? Are you talking about the thorn? You think its a parasite? o.o

 
I would definitely accept it..the entire point of my post was asking if I missed something during reading it. Seeing as how shes only maniupulated her way through so far and never really defended herself or won a fight, thats what I'm baseing my observations on. It would be kind of weird if she waited until the mid 30 floors to start being a badass though..Again, the hardest part to understand about this series is why anyone is following her and it hasnt really been explained. I don't really like the above guys explanation that shes just weirdly good at recruiting people,  I would side more with how Salvatore explained that its a giant question that will be answered later on. 
 
Btw whatever that is in your sig looks flipping amazing haha

She was never put in a dilemma where she had to defend herself. Most of the early ordeals where planned. She hasn't manipulated anyone besides Koon. To outsmart Koon is really saying something.

The Art of War

 

 

• All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

 

• If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.

 

• For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.

 

- Sun Tzu

 

I can quote more, but Rachel abilities to manipulate is far more powerful than flashy wave blasts you see.  Rachel is very dangerous.

[repairman1988]

I think the only reason why Rachel is climbing the Tower, and with the assistance of strong Regulars, is because of her contract with Headon.

 

I think the contracts formed with the Guardians are absolute. Even the Guardians can't cancel their contracts. Headon made the promise to Rachel that he would help her climb the Tower, and that's what he's doing, with the help of FUG.

 

Since Zahard's administration started to eliminate all the dangerous candidates, because they don't want powerful beings bringing chaos to the Tower, Headon, in the name of the Guardians, formed and alliance with FUG, to protect the Irregulars like Baam. The Guardians use FUG to protect the irregular candidates and FUG can recrute them to kill Zahard. It's a win-win deal.

 

Rachel was the only reason why Baam entered the Tower and started his ascension. Headon realized very quickly that Rachel was the key to motivate Baam in climbing the Tower, so he formed a contract with her. He uses FUG to provide Rachel everything she needs, and as long as she climbs, Baam will follow her.

 

At least, it's what I think.

 Hmmm interesting. That would make sense and be pretty badass if headon was working with FUG the entire time. It would also explain rachels miraculous ascent in the tower and her current team. 

She was never put in a dilemma where she had to defend herself. Most of the early ordeals where planned. She hasn't manipulated anyone besides Koon. To outsmart Koon is really saying something.

 

 

I can quote more, but Rachel abilities to manipulate is far more powerful than flashy wave blasts you see.  Rachel is very dangerous.

Never said I use flashy wave blasts as a condition to be considered powerful so the quotes are kind of unnecessary. There is obviously strength in deception and manipulation (This is the biggest reason I love Khun, but were given plenty of examples with him and I cant think of any for rachel other than outright betraying Bam and turning on him). When did she outsmart Khun? If youre talking about the betrayal of his teammates, that was more FUG than anything she did. She was just kind of there as far as we know.

 

I kind of remember a scene where the administrator of the tests ensures rachels sucess by giving her that ghost character (who we havent seen from again) but due to bad translation, I dont really get why she did it (unless ordered by FUG who she seems to be in league with).  All i can tell so far is that rachel has been massively used by FUG to manipulate bam and hasn't really done anything on her own in terms of deception or strength. Her suddenly leading the badass group and becoming a character to be feared just seems out of left field.

[Fairy King Harlequin]

Never said I use flashy wave blasts as a condition to be considered powerful so the quotes are kind of unnecessary. There is obviously strength in deception and manipulation (This is the biggest reason I love Khun, but were given plenty of examples with him and I cant think of any for rachel other than outright betraying Bam and turning on him). When did she outsmart Khun? If youre talking about the betrayal of his teammates, that was more FUG than anything she did. She was just kind of there as far as we know.

 

I kind of remember a scene where the administrator of the tests ensures rachels sucess by giving her that ghost character (who we havent seen from again) but due to bad translation, I dont really get why she did it (unless ordered by FUG who she seems to be in league with).  All i can tell so far is that rachel has been massively used by FUG to manipulate bam and hasn't really done anything on her own in terms of deception or strength. Her suddenly leading the badass group and becoming a character to be feared just seems out of left field.

I didn't say you used flashy wave blasts as a condition to be considered powerful.  Not showing your power doesn't consider you weak is all I'm saying.  She manipulated Koon during season one before her deception was revealed by Le-ro.

 

FUG did use Rachel to capture Baam.  It was the whole point of season one.  FUG got what they wanted and it seems this season Rachel is planning something that's not related to FUG's goal.  Why can't she lead a group?  You only need charisma to lead.  Season one she got Koon to side with her for awhile. 

[OrgoglioRomano]

She is an irregular so she is quite valuable. Probably she was too weak to be melted in a thorn preserving her irregular status.  I think she is weak, since, if I recall in the right way Headon stated it. She would' ve never been choosen by the tower and the only reason she was able to enter was due to her stealing Bam' spot. 

 

Headon(which I think works with fug) made a contract with her, as already written by someone, so this is the reason she is able to go up in the tower. 

[Fairy King Harlequin]

She is an irregular so she is quite valuable. Probably she was too weak to be melted in a thorn preserving her irregular status.  I think she is weak, since, if I recall in the right way Headon stated it. She would' ve never been choosen by the tower and the only reason she was able to enter was due to her stealing Bam' spot. 

 

Headon(which I think works with fug) made a contract with her, as already written by someone, so this is the reason she is able to go up in the tower. 

You would trust Headon's word?

[Random-Webtoon-Fan]

You would trust Headon's word?

EXACTLY!!


Why the fuck are some of you guys trusting that rabbit thingy?!

[salvatore]

EXACTLY!!


Why the fuck are some of you guys trusting that rabbit thingy?!

Well, he's the first guardian the 10 families met and made contract with when they entered the tower, and uptil now he seems to kept his word to them no matter how he hates them, so i say he may have lie or manipulate others, but when it comes to contract he may keep his word, so if Rachel made a contract with him, he will probably keep it.