23 replies to this topic

[Bananimal]

I've had a problem with Kei since the beginning of this series, and it just keeps getting worse. The problem is that I'm not sure what sort of character he's supposed to be. Is he supposed to be a normal kid thrust into a terrible situation? Is he some paragon of morality? Or is he a sociopath?

Usually, a character you can't quite figure out is really interesting, but this feels more like the author can't decide his personality. Kei's actions are very inconsistent and his thoughts even more so. He seems to be coldly pragmatic, and even Hat Dude noticed something off about him, but then he goes and saves his torturers like he's Jesus freaking Christ. Who are you and what do you want?!

[radar64]

When people are super depressed the logical side of their brains take over so they make much more logical decisions that's why the mangaka wrote  all those calculations around the images of the various routes Kei was considering when he was deciding his next move while in the abandoned house with Kai. Following that he was captured and tortured when that happened he began undergoing a morality crisis during which he finally decided to give all humans the benefit of the doubt and only killing as a last resort or not at all as a "tribute" of sorts to Kai. However, he appears to have for the moment abandoned the emotional component to his decision making except for his "oath" (he didn't actually make an oath just can't think of a better word maybe Devotion?) to Kai that's why he wants to help the people who may have just been following orders and weren't actually bad people get out alive. I could go into greater detail about the various things that could be why kei is seriously messed up in the head but, Basically  Kai is the reason he wants to help those people who might or might not be assholes

[Raleader]

i knew it would go like this... i don't know why i get disapionted when this manga takes the most obvious manga direction. No matter what kind of cruel sadistic stuf humans do, in the end "they are humans so it is bad to kill them", but a an ajin kills the very humans that were torturing the kid and "how could you, they are humans!! im going to turn against you". Its just plain stupid.

It reminds me of that Dritzz moron.

[Butako chan]

i knew it would go like this... i don't know why i get disapionted when this manga takes the most obvious manga direction. No matter what kind of cruel sadistic stuf humans do, in the end "they are humans so it is bad to kill them", but a an ajin kills the very humans that were torturing the kid and "how could you, they are humans!! im going to turn against you". Its just plain stupid.
It reminds me of that Dritzz moron.

If you read further then you will yourself proven wrong.
 

Spoiler

Kei is actually an extremely rational person. He rationalizes everything he does for a reason. His "care" for humanity is just an act and he is actually very selfish. He is doing everything for his own benefit. This is revealed by his sister when an investigator asks why she was so quick to lose faith in her brother.

 

[Bananimal]

If you read further then you will yourself proven wrong.

Spoiler

Kei is actually an extremely rational person. He rationalizes everything he does for a reason. His "care" for humanity is just an act and he is actually very selfish. He is doing everything for his own benefit. This is revealed by his sister when an investigator asks why she was so quick to lose faith in her brother.

That's the sense I was getting from this chapter, and I think it's an interesting direction. But if he is a sociopath, then I feel that the early chapters did not do a good enough job establishing that. He was portrayed as a typical scared confused kid, making him easy to identify with. I dunno, it's like the "goal" of the character is all over the place. I thought he was a blank-slate type, so making him a sociopath makes him much harder to self-insert as.
I think part of the problem is the setting. The society here is very creepy and strange, with people doing awful things to Ajin without a second thought. Yeah yeah, it's supposed to be like reality, people in reality are evil blah blah blah. As another thread debated, most people wouldn't react like that, and an earlier chapter pointed out how strange the lack of support for Ajin is. It justified it okay, but the long rambling point I'm trying to make is that since the society Kei grew up in was so strange, and his home life is implied to have been bad on top of that, it's hard to say what's normal here. ... that made much more sense in my head.

Edited by Bananimal, 25 February 2014 - 10:36 AM.

[Coralira]

I think Kei was always hinted to be kind of crazy

Edited by Coralira, 19 February 2014 - 02:35 AM.

[Raleader]

oh, i didnt got that far, if it is that way im not mad at him anymore. 

[geenius3ab]

The latest chapter went for the ''cold genius'' approach. He doesn't really care much for human life, and he prioritizes efficiency to common sense. Which is really strange because throughout the beginning of Ajin, he has been somewhat of a sociopath, and now suddenly after the torturing, he has turned into an unidentifiable mass. But I also gotta say things got more interesting now that we have a glimmer of an idea what the ''antagonist Ajin'' plans on doing (Though humans seem just as monstrous, or even more so.).

[Bananimal]

Yup, MC confirmed to be a sociopath. Just like everyone else in this setting. Why are there so many freaking bastards in this manga?! Hat dude likes massacring people, average Joe's apathetic, glasses dude kills American personnel without a second thought. There is a disproportionate number of jerks in the main cast, and it's frankly annoying me. Why make the main character a bastard too? A normal person would be a breath of fresh air in this series. Man do I miss Kai.

[BoldChild]

Yeah, I was getting sociopath vibes from the MC, but then he saved the scientist, so I was thinking, if he's a sociopath, why would he do that?

 

But then he gave his answer in the most recent chapter, and I was like, oh.

 

About the ht buy keeping them in barrels, that's beyond barbaric, they're basically going to be shut away in that dark cramped space for who knows how long, to repeatedly starve to death and come back alive. Coming form a person who generally doesn't have a lot of regard for human life in fictional stories, this is a lot, even for me.

[Crazy Apple]

I really like the MC. Okay he's a bit disturbed I guess. But with a childhood like that it is seriously possible He has a childhood tainted by that black ghost. Even the most rational kid would lose sanity. He started thinking of life and death at a very young age. The dog that he had, died and mom told them she would complain to the seller...? That's just a sick line to begin with. Even seeing the black ghost and protecting his little sister gave us a hint at his kindness. 

 

But still, he is very educated (which was for a good cause, healing his sister), rational and he uses all of his brains to be as effecient as possible. Effecient =/= kind. And I think he will be crawling out of his shell when he meets up with his motocycle buddy or he sees the ravaging of Satou starting war.

 

And I like how he's actually communicating with the Ghost in the 16th chapter. It's more like argueing than communicating. I think his ghosts' connection enabled the ghost to be something more/else than just a mindcontrolled puppet. A ghost with own thought, emotions and actions, and I seriously wanna see how it compares to the ordinary puppets the other guys have. I guess we'll come to a point where Kei tries to save humanity from Satou & co. But that still might be very far away, considering Kei's recent state of mind. 

 

Spoiler

With the latest developments of Satou waging war I thought of this:

 

Let's see how the next chapters progress.

Edited by Crazy Apple, 28 February 2014 - 02:13 AM.

[fal]

@ BoldChild: the mc's answer for why he saved that scientist is very unsatisfactory. He said he thought long about it afterwards and came up with the answer he did it out of cold logic, 'cause the scientist was useful to have alive? Either you do something logically, and you know beforehand why you do it, or you do it on impulse, and emotional or habits factors come into play. Like the habit to "do what should be done".

Still I don't think he's a good guy (he is a sociopath/whatever-the-correct-term-is), he just tries to fake it.

Which means he acts like a good guy, and that's good.

Except for the bit with the new ajin boy. So he only acts "good" when people can see him? But nobody knew he could save the scientist except Hat guy. Hm. I don't see the logic here. New ajin boy saw him act "bad", and he doesn't mind.

 

Hat guy hasn't been known for his humanism; and that's the most efficient way to be sure they won't get in his way. So that's quite logical. Kei does more or less the same thing.

 

@ Bananimal: Kai is not a normal person, he's way too heroic. The fireman is normal.

[mithras131]

I think that, while he's exhibiting some very sociopathic tendencies, and might end up just a plain old sociopath, we have to consider the real possibility that he himself doesn't really understand why he's doing what he's doing yet. Yes, when he was in the lab where he made his "devotion" to not kill, he saved the scientist, and then rationalized it away ex post facto because he didn't understand why he had done it in the first place, hence his "I gave it a lot of thought" and "I'm still troubled" qualifiers. I mean, he is still a teenager. I've known plenty of older people, as well, who sometimes act without thinking why they're doing it. I'm sure there's more room for character growth, and the other young ajin that he just locked inside a conveniently crashed truck might be part of that, as will Kai, whenever he inevitably reappears.

 

And, as a funny aside, he ended up going with Kai's plan in the end anyway, just without Kai, and with a random old woman instead of Kai's family.

[Thunder Wolf]

I believe the problem with Kei is poor writing. The author didn't seem to have a solid, well thought out plan in regards to his personality. It's all fine to say his actions towards humans were all an act, but that's inconsistent with his own internal monologues. Sure, it would make sense if we saw him one way throughout only to have his internal monologue prove that view wrong, but to have his own internal, personal thoughts and feelings be deceptions, too? That makes very little sense. 

 

Either it's poor writing or Kei went a little nuts due to the torture (which sounds like it isn't the case according to his sister).

[minordeth]

Eh, Kei's behavior is consistent with someone with a sociopathic sort of personality. He is shown early on to ignore his old friend, consistent with his utility ethic, given that Kai was unpopular both with Kei's peer group, and with his mom. His ability for quick reasoning and value calculations are shown when he leaves Kai and takes the bike. I mean, for god's sake, when he leaves he doesn't go back to thank Kai in person, and simply abandons him to sleep. There's enough evidence that the author was setting him up to be more calculating than your typical MC from the get-go. However, he isn't all the way over to the sociopathic side.

 

The author also has consistently demonstrated that Kei doesn't understand his own feelings/empathy, and he attempts to post-hoc rationalize his own empathetic and less rational decisions (like when he saved the surgeon). Remember, sociopathy is a vaguely defined disorder, and like most other things, the symptoms exist on a continuum, with few people being either completely empathetic to the point of disorder, or completely without empathy. I think the author initially enjoyed setting up Kei in accordance with genre conventions, with slight deviations, until the point in the story allowed Kei to be more true to his nature without social repercussions. 

 

Of course, another option is that Kei holds that rational, utilitarian personality as an ideal, and has used it as a coping mechanic his whole life. 

[fixitaf]

Or maybe he has a multiple personality disorder... That could explain those "empathy" episodes, although he generally seems to be a sociopath.
Think about it, even his black ghost has his own personality!  

[Cynistera]

Sometimes you have to pretend to be human to fit in and survive. I have a condition called Asperger Syndrome and Kei's actions don't seem so odd to me. No promises that he has AS but see for yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

 

I don't see anything wrong with anyone in this story, but that may be my inability to understand the emotions of others talking again. 

 

Hat guy keeps immortals in portable prisons- an excellent idea. You may not be able to lift an oil drum but you can roll it. Just by listening to the side you can know if the contents are still captured within. The oil drum may not be destroyed by the Ajin Ghosts because of the density of the metal. 

 

Humans are frightened of what they do not understand or are ignorant towards- the average person is unaware of how Ajin citizens are being treated, even Glasses didn't know they were being used as living test dummies to such an extent. 

 

Glasses taking out a perceived threat is also a smart choice to be- the body guard probably is allowed to defend Smoker with armed force. Weak Glasses vs. buff body guard? Glasses already made his mind up in capturing Smoker with the intent to interrogate him, what purpose did the body guard serve if he would only get in Glasses' way?

 

Kei could have saved the scientist because 1. He felt indebted to him, 2. The scientist could be changing sides and become a sympathizer. Offering Kei the use of his vehicle is more than just leading him outside as he was escaping.

 

Kai is running on pure emotion and needs to stop and think about his next step. Chasing after an Ajin who may be an ally or an enemy then immediately introducing yourself is just foolish. He's far too rash and quick to act. 

 

Kei going back and waking his friend to thank him would have only resulted in a fight and burnt bridges between the two of them. Thanking his friend when he was asleep (thanking the building, basically) was purely for Kei's shame/guilt for leaving him at the abandoned building. He was taking his bike but Kei didn't know what was about to happen and thought he may never see him again, he left his friend there without transportation because he could have been trying to protect him. The other guy on the bike did try to kill Kei's friend in his pursuit to capture Kei after all, which seems like a good reason to leave him there to me. 

Edited by Cynistera, 30 April 2014 - 03:07 AM.

[Bananimal]

@Cynistera, I know on some level Hat Dude's actions seem logical, at least schematically. But the reality is that his actions would have dire consequences. Who would trust a guy who forced fellow Ajin to suffer so horrifically? His followers are not under duress, they're clearly enjoying themselves and had many opportunities to escape.

There's just so many plot holes and idiotic moments like these that it breaks the "horror" tone the author was going for. It's bad writing through and through.

[Cynistera]

@Cynistera, I know on some level Hat Dude's actions seem logical, at least schematically. But the reality is that his actions would have dire consequences. Who would trust a guy who forced fellow Ajin to suffer so horrifically? His followers are not under duress, they're clearly enjoying themselves and had many opportunities to escape.

There's just so many plot holes and idiotic moments like these that it breaks the "horror" tone the author was going for. It's bad writing through and through.

Personally, I don't even feel this is horror. o.O This seems more action/adventure.

[admira]

I agree with Cynistera.  Kei's actions are largely the product of rational thinking, which I find far more desirable than the type of protagonist who makes so-called heartfelt decisions that conflict with his (or her) general ideology.  As for the matter of saving the researcher, Kei isn't really sure why he did it.  He decides on those reasons to rationalize it after the fact, but I believe that it was a rare impulsive decision on his part.  I often have trouble empathizing with others.  However, that doesn't mean that I'm unable to experience those types of emotions on my own, to a certain (and varied) degree.  I also have trouble recognizing my own emotions without someone else pointing them out (such as a change in body language or tone that portrays the emotion), especially after the fact.  So to me, Kei's sudden irrational decision doesn't seem to be particularly character-breaking, especially considering the way he reacted when asked to explain it.

 

As for the horror...I never felt it was horror.  There isn't over-the-top gore, and while the human experimentation is certainly unpleasant, it's hardly what I would consider horror-genre material.  Then again, my idea of horror is scary, not necessarily crimes against humanity.