22 replies to this topic

[Yards]

Phantom Shot

Vanishing Drive

Meteor Jam

Vice Claw

Hawk Eye

Eagle Eye

Eagle Spear

Emperor's Eye

 

ad nauseam.

 

This hasn't been a basketball manga in a loooong time. At first, they kept these special abilities were SOMEWHAT believable. I mean, it took some considerable suspension of disbelief, but hey, it worked. The MC, a kid with next to no presence who was good at basketball was actually a good concept. Since the first chapter though, it's as if the author said, "Fuck it. Basketball got boring. Let's make this into a quasi shounen battle manga" - cause that's what it looks like now.

 

Honestly, how did this ever get so popular? Eyeshield 21 was classy about it. The abilities in that were interesting and they worked. KNB just took the concept and made it flat out ridiculous (and the author copied Kuroko's ability from ES21).

 

It's an unpopular opinion perhaps, but I had to kind of vent.

 

Also, watch Seiren beat Rakuzan despite it all. The plot protection in this manga is ridiculous.

[xKuruka]

Well, as a fan (and quite the avid one at that), I find that KnB has it's own charm points. I'm definitely not reading this because I love basketball. Honestly, I don't find that sport all that interesting. Sure I like to play it or watch a match once in a while but hey, I'm not a b-ball kind of gal. 

 

If I'm completely honest, the reason I actually started to read KnB is the art. I saw a fan art pic on my facebook feed and was intrigued by the many boys with rainbow hair. Yes, I still partly read for the attractive cast. I mean, come on, the GoM are all good looking. It's a shallow reason to like something, but it's an appeal either way. Besides, the KnB fandom is basically allegedly comprised of a ratio of approx. 1:1 gender-wise (according to some poll. Wouldn't be able to source it, which is why I said allegedly) so good looking guys are always going to be a draw.

 

Secondly, the supernatural moves in this manga are another reason why I gave it a try. I've read, and gave up on countless sports manga - except for this and PoT. Yes, many of them are ridiculous and they do sometimes irk me but I like them. I find that this makes the sport more appealing to me because it has fantasy in it. I don't have to try to understand basketball more than the simple goal of scoring more points than the opposing team. If I wanted to learn more, I'd go join my school's team or watch the sports channel. I'm here to be entertained. If I find this entertaining then of course I'm going to like it. For many people, it really is as simple as that.

 

(Other things I like is that it kind of does make me excited when I read the matches. Not so much this match in particular, but the previous matches I was pretty engrossed.)

 

We like it. We share it. It got popular because we like it and share it.

 

Probably. I'm just guessing, but it's a pretty plausible explanation.

 

Another factor could be the anime. A lot of people who haven't read the manga do enjoy the anime. I also have to agree that it was really well done. The animations were great and I was literally so into the matches that it'd be just like the first time I read it. 

Edited by xKuruka, 10 November 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[mhyr1104]

I think that the skills the author mentions are theoretically possible, but will be near-impossible to execute

btw, I dont call that 'plot protection' I call it 'the main MC buff' XD the MCs always win no matter what, or they do so sometime later

[Pacman2]

Well at least I hope they do.

[KaiBel]

It is true that I started this series for the quality of the animation, but from reading the scans, as a sports fan in general, I didn't find those techniques to be as "impossible" as some people claim them to be. I mean sure, you can't shoot three pointers from any range, sure you can't make formless shoots that go in from anywhere or slam the ball from the above like a badass. But have you seen what some athletes can do? There are some amazing feats realised by top players in basketball, heck go watch a highschool dunk contest in america you'll see some amazing highlights. What I am meaning to say is that, yes some techniques are just outrageous (midorima's three pointers), but I can assure you that tricks like Vice claw or eagle spear or even the zone are perfectly doable, although not by many and certainly not by highschool students, but what I find weird is that to this point some people still complain about generation of miracles being overpowered. This manga was never about the struggle of the weak to realise victory like most people misunderstand it. It was always about great basketball talents striving for the top to prove that their own play is the best, about the progress they make psychologically, which can make a great difference in the play of any sportsman. So to answer your question: I wasn't considering this to be the most realistic highschool basketball anime, and quite frankly if it was it would be very very boring (at least for me), while the games are starting to take the same shape I can't deny that I don't enjoy reading it since they do a good job at raising my interest in each predicted phase of the match (seirin loses, kuroko or kagami aren't performing as good as predicted, moral boost, instant come back, opposite team counter attack, then last minute comeback) but let me ask you as an anime fan: would you enjoy a fight with no comeback whatsoever just one-sided massacre until the end? or an anime with a protagonist that loses all his important battles? (shut up, Ash)

 

But you know what I enjoyed more, when they just stop playing and talk about each player's perception about basketball, teamplay, winning, losing.... because you don't get to see that side of the players in real life, that's why my favourite arc was the Teikou middleschool where there was less basketball and more about the generation of miracles.

 

Then again this is just my humble opinion, feel free to see it as you like

[mugiwara84]

A bit late to realize not?  It never took a realistic approach like a Slam Dunk did.  Just take this weeks chapter, it's hilarious how it has a reference to Ray Allen, you reference the all time 3 point scoring leader in the NBA yet you make these guys make his 3 point FGA % look like he's an amateur.  Let alone that in the NBA they almost never take a 3 point shot when they're guarded or it has to be at the end of the game.     

 

What I do find surprising is that you actually find it does a worse job in the fantasy department than Eyeshield 21 did.  I found ES21 a lot, lot more ridiculous with its moves/characters (i.e.: Gaou), and it certainly didn't had the charm that KnB has with Kuroko's past where he wanted to triumph over his previous teammates whose mentality got skewed.  Or even the chemistry between all the characters.  So yeah, personally I prefer sports mangas to keep it at least as realistic as possible, but KnB took a supermoves approach so I just try to enjoy that for what it is even if it does irk me a bit at times as an avid basketball fan myself. 

[magnificent]

Phantom Shot

Vanishing Drive

Meteor Jam

Vice Claw

Hawk Eye

Eagle Eye

Eagle Spear

Emperor's Eye

 

ad nauseam.

 

This hasn't been a basketball manga in a loooong time. At first, they kept these special abilities were SOMEWHAT believable. I mean, it took some considerable suspension of disbelief, but hey, it worked. The MC, a kid with next to no presence who was good at basketball was actually a good concept. Since the first chapter though, it's as if the author said, "Fuck it. Basketball got boring. Let's make this into a quasi shounen battle manga" - cause that's what it looks like now.

 

Honestly, how did this ever get so popular? Eyeshield 21 was classy about it. The abilities in that were interesting and they worked. KNB just took the concept and made it flat out ridiculous (and the author copied Kuroko's ability from ES21).

 

It's an unpopular opinion perhaps, but I had to kind of vent.

 

Also, watch Seiren beat Rakuzan despite it all. The plot protection in this manga is ridiculous.

 

The author is simply giving "exciting" names to techniques/things that are already done/used in basketball today. It is simply embellishing what already exists for the audience. However the author isn't always going to completely explain them or it might take away from the mysteirous feel/awe. Using special techniques is a hallmark of managa, especially shounen, so the author will use them even if they are simply plays off of what people in the pros use.

 

-Phantom Shot Shot=Kuroko uses two hands as part of the layup (which traditionally uses only one hand), if you look at chapter 148, one hand is underneath the ball, while the other is one top/to the side of the ball. The positioning of his hands is actually the form as if one was shooting a jump shot/three pointer/any distance shot. Kuroko jumps and then shoots the the ball with such a high arc that it goes way too high/out of sigh (thus disappearing). Jump shots have arc, kuroko just does it so close to the rim and high arcing.

-Vanishing Drive=making use of blind spots. Kagami draws some attention and kuroko switches up which way he might go.

-Meteor Jam=simply dunking it while jumping from foul line, can happen and does in real basketball.

-Vice Claw=hand is big enough to grab the basketball easily and grip it with that one hand

-hawk Eye/Eagle Eye=enough court awareness to prevent situations, this is a must for good players, though some are better at it then most

-Eagle Spear=simply using the awareness mentioned to steal/knock the ball away from someone who didn't think the aware person was close enough/paying attention

-Emperor's Eye=reading the body movement of enemy players to act in accordance against what the enemy can/intends to do, this is like in boxing where they say don't watch the hand, but watch the shoulders. Not something you typically think about using in basketball, thus the wonderment of other players over it.

 

There all explained for, all real. If you need other techniques explained, then simply post which and I will do my best.

 

As far as plot armor, dunno, I mean even I don't know how seiren can win against razukan as they are, but we will see what happens.

[shonryukku]

^what he said

 

most of these techniques are technically possible just done up to an extreme percent.  i  don't know why still read this i came for the basketball then it  got to how it is now so i just read it cause it's out and what I'm looking for isn't it's better than NPoT at least also  can we not take shots at ES21 or Slam Dunk for that matter  the quality of those works speaks for themselves

[magnificent]

I wholeheartedly recommend Baby Steps for a sports manga. Prince of Tennis is like dragonball z with crazy techniques etc that I find hard to see the reality in. However Baby steps is well versed in reality and has a great story etc. Plus it has a ton of chapters.

[shin10]

-Emperor's Eye=reading the body movement of enemy players to act in accordance against what the enemy can/intends to do, this is like in boxing where they say don't watch the hand, but watch the shoulders. Not something you typically think about using in basketball, thus the wonderment of other players over it.

From my experience, all new players are always told to watch the belly button in basketball. Watching the eyes, head, feet, or hands will get you burned. The belly button goes where the player is going to go. It's really one of the basics of defense, and reading a player's movement is always one of the main points of defense. Like you said, it's just exaggerated here.

[Factsmaster]

Well, as a fan (and quite the avid one at that), I find that KnB has it's own charm points. I'm definitely not reading this because I love basketball. Honestly, I don't find that sport all that interesting. Sure I like to play it or watch a match once in a while but hey, I'm not a b-ball kind of gal. 

 

If I'm completely honest, the reason I actually started to read KnB is the art. I saw a fan art pic on my facebook feed and was intrigued by the many boys with rainbow hair. Yes, I still partly read for the attractive cast. I mean, come on, the GoM are all good looking. It's a shallow reason to like something, but it's an appeal either way. Besides, the KnB fandom is basically allegedly comprised of a ratio of approx. 1:1 gender-wise (according to some poll. Wouldn't be able to source it, which is why I said allegedly) so good looking guys are always going to be a draw.

 

Secondly, the supernatural moves in this manga are another reason why I gave it a try. I've read, and gave up on countless sports manga - except for this and PoT. Yes, many of them are ridiculous and they do sometimes irk me but I like them. I find that this makes the sport more appealing to me because it has fantasy in it. I don't have to try to understand basketball more than the simple goal of scoring more points than the opposing team. If I wanted to learn more, I'd go join my school's team or watch the sports channel. I'm here to be entertained. If I find this entertaining then of course I'm going to like it. For many people, it really is as simple as that.

 

(Other things I like is that it kind of does make me excited when I read the matches. Not so much this match in particular, but the previous matches I was pretty engrossed.)

 

We like it. We share it. It got popular because we like it and share it.

 

Probably. I'm just guessing, but it's a pretty plausible explanation.

 

Another factor could be the anime. A lot of people who haven't read the manga do enjoy the anime. I also have to agree that it was really well done. The animations were great and I was literally so into the matches that it'd be just like the first time I read it. 

why would you use that color... makes it hard to read

[Brutu]

Just an extra information, meteor jam is Dwight Howard's Superman Dunk. Just search for it on youtube.

 

So, at least one of the technique you listed is actually can be done.

[TheJoanne]

Thing is, I like this manga since although some suspension of disbelief is needed, I can think to myself "maybe that could be possible" (never played or watched any basketball that wasn't in a movie or TV show).

 

Shooting 3 pointers from far away? Sure, although the success percentage is crazy (and the distance got even crazier..) Like how some people can throw things across a parking lot while I can barely get it to go 1m.

Copy cat? Again, the issue was the success and speed of the technique. Actually stealing the technique (admittedly after practice and repeated viewings) seems to be something any sportsman would try and do.

Being crazy tall and so essentially a wall of defense? This was the easiest for me. Taller person = hands at a higher level = able to steal/keep the ball better.

Free form? Some people get things done in weird ways, and it works. Some people are able to carry heavy weights balanced on their heads, some on their shoulders, some in their arms. Different methods, same result.

Emperor eye? Basically a bloody good grasp of body language and ability to detect movements in the muscles. The body equivalent of Patrick Jane's mind magic.

 

What broke it for me was the ankle break. No. Just no.

[mhyr1104]

I can somewhat proof that Midroima and Aomine's shot is possible, since I actually managed to throw a basket from the half-way line (I know that Midroima's shots are from the end of the court, but it's as close as I could get) with 1 hand in the middle of a match in my PE lesson

[dred05]

Nah there's a lot of guys with the same opinion. But I don't mind it at all. Maybe because I'm not really a basketball fan?

[Syaoran05]

Every single move done is entirely possible. Basketball is a sport where you can't really have a 'special technique' it's all about your physical ability and anyone could copy the results of a move as long as they have the right physical ability themselves mainly. The main 'exception' to this is driving technique. But some of the most 'unbelievable' moves in this series have been done for -years-.

 

The meteor jam is a good one, people think you can't jump that high to where you could throw the ball down from  above the rim? Have you ever heard of the 'kiss the rim' dunk? It's one of Jordan's signatures. It's called that because he get's so high that his face is level with the hoop. A basketball hoop is only 10 feet(appearently going to be 12 next season) and the shortest player in history was Muggsy as 5'3" that means he'd only have to jump 4'9" that's 57 inches to do a kiss the rim, and probably only 35 to dunk. And there are people who can do vertical leaps of over 70 inches. Kagami is like 10 inches taller than Muggsy. Throwing the ball down from above the rim is no problem. And yes it's insanely hard to aim, but Kagami only can guarantee it going in while he's in the zone.

 

Akashi's Emporer eye and 'ankle break'. Are easy. The term 'Ankle Breaker' isn't even from the manga. It's a street ball term, that got adopted even by the NBA, for the exact same thing. Doing a crossover that the opponent can't respond to properly and they fall. Watch some AND1 or if you watch enough NBA game's you'll catch it. The reason it doesn't happen a lot in the NBA though is because doing a bunch of dribbling is not encouraged in the NBA. Akashi can do it though because he can read body language, and tell when muscles are tensing and relaxing. All he has to do is move at the right time when your muscles can't move you in that direction. It's a little exaggerated in terms of the precision he has. But look at boxers. There is a saying that "If you wait for a boxer to throw a punch, it's impossible to dodge." and that's true. You have to read their muscles, namely their shoulders(which is why shoulders are exposed in boxing, men's and women's) and dodge. Even I who am not someone who plays basketball all day, have done ankle breakers.

Eagle and Hawk eye are just awareness and Basketball IQ mixed together to 'imagine' and 'predict' what is happening on the court. They're not -literally- seeing from a birds eye few, they're picturing it in their heads, they're not cyborgs or psychics.

Vice Claw..and Right of Postponement...Watch Rajon Rando...his entire offensive game revolves around that kinda stuff cause he's got huge hands.

As for Midorima, people -have- made full court shots to win games. This is just another matter of precision. In theory though you -could- become proficient in it, but no one practices it because it's still worth only 3 points and takes alot more energy then shooting from the 3 point line. If it were worth like 5 or 6 points, trust me, people would start practicing it and we'd see it more.

Formless shot? Go watch street ball. Every single shot Aomine did has been done. The real thing is how nimble he is in air, but acrobats can do it, so it's humanly possible. It's against just a matter of precision, but if you practiced it, you could get proficient at crazy shots like that.

 

Kise's copying, like i said above, you can copy just about anyone in the NBA, as long as you have the right physical attributes. Kise just does it 'faster' than it would normally take to copy. Because it would be no fun to see Kise take a week to learn a move.

And of course Kuroko's moves are all possible he's essentially performing stage magic on the court. It's all about doing things in blind spots, and the most unbelievable, the shot was explained in the manga. It's just that it has an unusual arc. You have ot realize you don't play sports by responding to what you see, you have to anticipate, so if something moves in a way you're not used to, it will 'disappear' from your sight, unless you have -really- good kinetic vision.

[TheJoanne]

Every single move done is entirely possible. Basketball is a sport where you can't really have a 'special technique' it's all about your physical ability and anyone could copy the results of a move as long as they have the right physical ability themselves mainly. The main 'exception' to this is driving technique. But some of the most 'unbelievable' moves in this series have been done for -years-.

 

The meteor jam is a good one, people think you can't jump that high to where you could throw the ball down from  above the rim? Have you ever heard of the 'kiss the rim' dunk? It's one of Jordan's signatures. It's called that because he get's so high that his face is level with the hoop. A basketball hoop is only 10 feet(appearently going to be 12 next season) and the shortest player in history was Muggsy as 5'3" that means he'd only have to jump 4'9" that's 57 inches to do a kiss the rim, and probably only 35 to dunk. And there are people who can do vertical leaps of over 70 inches. Kagami is like 10 inches taller than Muggsy. Throwing the ball down from above the rim is no problem. And yes it's insanely hard to aim, but Kagami only can guarantee it going in while he's in the zone.

 

Akashi's Emporer eye and 'ankle break'. Are easy. The term 'Ankle Breaker' isn't even from the manga. It's a street ball term, that got adopted even by the NBA, for the exact same thing. Doing a crossover that the opponent can't respond to properly and they fall. Watch some AND1 or if you watch enough NBA game's you'll catch it. The reason it doesn't happen a lot in the NBA though is because doing a bunch of dribbling is not encouraged in the NBA. Akashi can do it though because he can read body language, and tell when muscles are tensing and relaxing. All he has to do is move at the right time when your muscles can't move you in that direction. It's a little exaggerated in terms of the precision he has. But look at boxers. There is a saying that "If you wait for a boxer to throw a punch, it's impossible to dodge." and that's true. You have to read their muscles, namely their shoulders(which is why shoulders are exposed in boxing, men's and women's) and dodge. Even I who am not someone who plays basketball all day, have done ankle breakers.

Eagle and Hawk eye are just awareness and Basketball IQ mixed together to 'imagine' and 'predict' what is happening on the court. They're not -literally- seeing from a birds eye few, they're picturing it in their heads, they're not cyborgs or psychics.

Vice Claw..and Right of Postponement...Watch Rajon Rando...his entire offensive game revolves around that kinda stuff cause he's got huge hands.

As for Midorima, people -have- made full court shots to win games. This is just another matter of precision. In theory though you -could- become proficient in it, but no one practices it because it's still worth only 3 points and takes alot more energy then shooting from the 3 point line. If it were worth like 5 or 6 points, trust me, people would start practicing it and we'd see it more.

Formless shot? Go watch street ball. Every single shot Aomine did has been done. The real thing is how nimble he is in air, but acrobats can do it, so it's humanly possible. It's against just a matter of precision, but if you practiced it, you could get proficient at crazy shots like that.

 

Kise's copying, like i said above, you can copy just about anyone in the NBA, as long as you have the right physical attributes. Kise just does it 'faster' than it would normally take to copy. Because it would be no fun to see Kise take a week to learn a move.

And of course Kuroko's moves are all possible he's essentially performing stage magic on the court. It's all about doing things in blind spots, and the most unbelievable, the shot was explained in the manga. It's just that it has an unusual arc. You have ot realize you don't play sports by responding to what you see, you have to anticipate, so if something moves in a way you're not used to, it will 'disappear' from your sight, unless you have -really- good kinetic vision.

Still not buying the Ankle Break Akashi does. I get the one you're explaining. But he seems to do it from a distance, and doesn't seem to switch hands (I'll have to go and reread again to double check this). My understanding was he throws them off balance/knocks them down using the vibrations causes by him bouncing the ball cause they aren't standing solidly enough at that exact moment. I get the idea o man falling cos he can't move/change direction fast enough. Falling cos the floor wobbled to the extent a ball bouncing would cause? Nope

 

All the rest I'm chilled with, even more after seeing your explanation    Sounds like maybe I should try finding an actual basketball game to watch, might be fun   

[mhyr1104]

Still not buying the Ankle Break Akashi does. I get the one you're explaining. But he seems to do it from a distance, and doesn't seem to switch hands (I'll have to go and reread again to double check this). My understanding was he throws them off balance/knocks them down using the vibrations causes by him bouncing the ball cause they aren't standing solidly enough at that exact moment. I get the idea o man falling cos he can't move/change direction fast enough. Falling cos the floor wobbled to the extent a ball bouncing would cause? Nope

 

All the rest I'm chilled with, even more after seeing your explanation    Sounds like maybe I should try finding an actual basketball game to watch, might be fun 

Akashi actually changes hands, I think he feints one way, then changes at the appropriate time to go the other way, which will throw the opponent's centre of balance off, making them fal

[Viole1369]

Actually it was never about real basketball

from day 1 where kuroko used misdirection.

 

Real basketball - can be found in Slamdunk and Real ( same author ,real is mature though)

 

Though KnB still rocks, but it has more or less nothing to do with basketball anymore (atleast possibly)

 

ES21 was more beliveable since

>Sena ran for 10 years before getting such high speed

>Shin practiced a hella lot

>Kurita,Gao etc body made them OP

 

etc

that said I love both!

[Henniej]

This manga is of course about basketball, even though the techniques can seem unrealistic. But, the purpose was never to make a realistic basketball story, more like an entertaining basketball manga. In my eyes it has succeeded brilliantly, the techniques are just awesome, and so are the characters and the setting.
If you want pure basketball, then you came to the wrong place. I suggest you try watching NBA.