26 replies to this topic

[truepurple]

I don't understand this, even after it's been updated with a version 2 
http://vatoto.com/read/_/197838/gate-thus-the-jsdf-fought-there_ch28v2_by_ak-scanlations/8

 

So what is the problem, and what is her solution? All I understand is that there is a large demand for earth dimension products by noble women. The rest I don't get at all.

Like, "can't sell it here" "don't have stock either" So they don't have anything to sell? Or refuse to sell from that location for some reason? In what sense do they mean deposit? How can anything be deposited if there is nothing to sell?

She says common sense, but more like gibberish from beginning to end.

 

http://vatoto.com/read/_/197838/gate-thus-the-jsdf-fought-there_ch28v2_by_ak-scanlations/29

Commit him? What could they mean? Only meaning I know of the word in this kind of usage is a insane asylum or treatment center, but that doesn't make sense in context, his actions were not that of insanity.

 

http://vatoto.com/read/_/197838/gate-thus-the-jsdf-fought-there_ch28v2_by_ak-scanlations/6

How did having fun with us, go to small penis (I assume anyway), and then prostitutes in the imperial capital? (BTW, I must question using her apparently excellent vision to judge a guys penis through clothing, and even to be able to do so speaks of some experience)

 

And a couple things I am having trouble understanding that are definitely outside of any translation or 'way the words are put',(since it might have nothing to do with translation) issues:

 

Why would they want to control and burn translation books?

http://vatoto.com/read/_/197838/gate-thus-the-jsdf-fought-there_ch28v2_by_ak-scanlations/12

 

Rather then get the book from her and try to learn the language, why not just have her translate?

Edited by truepurple, 02 October 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[Iorjarle]

As I understand it, they can't sell unless they have guarantee that goods and profits are delivered. I would guess roads are not safe. Her solution is to give a deposit or in in a way a reservation fee.

 

Elves are perverts at least in this manga. Just looks at their first solution that came to their mind to a problem.

 

http://vatoto.com/read/_/194401/gate-thus-the-jsdf-fought-there_v1_ch7_by_ak-scanlations/21

 

During early colonial days, Some colonial powers prevent or banned locals from learning their language.This is to prevent eavesdropping and spying and misunderstandings. The common trait of sucessful revulutionary is that they are know the language of their colonizer.

 

Also it's possible the worker union want to have a monopoly on relating to Japan.

[truepurple]

Deposit being paying part of the money? I am still not sure I understand it all, though maybe getting closer thanks to you.

[wanfai]

So what is the problem, and what is her solution? All I understand is that there is a large demand for earth dimension products by noble women. The rest I don't get at all.

Like, "can't sell it here" "don't have stock either" So they don't have anything to sell? Or refuse to sell from that location for some reason? In what sense do they mean deposit? How can anything be deposited if there is nothing to sell?

 

She says common sense, but more like gibberish from beginning to end.

 

If you ever read Spice and wolf, you would get this part. But since modern trading rarely ever do this, I guess i'll explain to some degree. First, silk is a rare product, for the GATE world that is. However, the first merchant wants to transport the goods, sell it, then return back to the base. Elements gets lost through translation, especially the specifics when it requires some experience in the area, so don't blame the translators. Anyways, the one who owns it doesn't want to hand it over, since the 2nd one, the one trying to sell it to the noblewomen, might just skip off with all the profits, and never return.

The solution to the problem that the Elf gave, was for the guy at the place to give a portion of the predicted profit right then and there. Then he would go out and sell the satin to anybody who wants it, at a higher rate. Then, even if the guy skips out and runs away with the profit, the first guy wouldn't lose everything, he would just lose out on a portion of the profit. Of course, this implies that the first guy pays a significant amount of money to begin with. I'm assuming that the author wanted to show that she had a half wit of intelligence, because it really was common sense, and that the merchants are portrayed as idiots.

Of course, people nowadays just pay up, and if you can't pay, you pay with a credit card and put it on your tab.

 

Commit him? What could they mean? Only meaning I know of the word in this kind of usage is a insane asylum or treatment center, but that doesn't make sense in context, his actions were not that of insanity.

 

Some things are translation errors, I'm just assuming for this one. I think what they meant to say was "convict him", as that fits better into the script, plus, both sounds, and looks the same (to some degree). Remember, translators are not perfect.
 

Why would they want to control and burn translation books?

http://vatoto.com/read/_/197838/gate-thus-the-jsdf-fought-there_ch28v2_by_ak-scanlations/12

 

Rather then get the book from her and try to learn the language, why not just have her translate?

 

As Einfies said, language is a very powerful thing, it's like, say, English suddenly being the 100% desired language in, say, Rural china. To prevent misunderstanding, they would have to learn it directly, with help with a book. The reason why they wanted you to burn it at the end, from my understanding, was to prevent anybody outside of that area from learning that language, else the existence of translators would no longer exist. Also, as for why not to just let her translate, it depends on who you're referring to as "her". If your talking about the one who learns the language, that's what they're doing, to make it so that there's one representative from each area, and making them take the translation job, rather than force everybody to learn. It's like China telling Australia "OK GUYS, YOU GOTTA LEARN OUR LANGUAGE" while instead Australia can just send one guy to China, learn the language, and then have that guy be the mediator. 

 

As for the elf being a pervert thing, I think that guy was just thirsty, and the clothes looked for attention. Plus, I guess he thought he was handsome, but was rejected by all the prostitute, and was looking for one last person that looked like they wouldn't mind. 

As for how one can see through cloth... well, she is an elf after all, I guess something  along the way. As for the prostitute thing, he was rejected by all the prostitute, and therefore was sent into depression after even she rejected him. Small penius just meant that she thought he couldn't do her at all.

[Firehorse32]

To commit him is in the context of placing him in custody thereof. It is an unusual usage of the verb, but it is a proper grammatical context.

[Kagetsuki_Jin]

Well they have a bolt of satin as sample in Alnus and the guy wants to buy it but the shopkeeper refused because they do not want to sell it right there and insisted that if he wants it, he needs to go buy it or order it at the PX branches.(This is 1 of the parts where it wasn't explained properly through the manga, in the novel the Alnus Living community restricted on the spot bulk trading because too many travelling merchants made their way to Alnus to directly buy the wyvern scales but upon arrival they were taken by surprise by all the fascinating t-shirts, cloths, towels, daily products and snacks imported from Japan. Since they are already in Alnus and all the imported goods will definitely make huge profits, the merchants insists on buying in bulk. Rumours of this spread like while fire among merchants and attracted even larger crowds but they have no lodging for outsiders, so the merchants had to camp out. As for the water source, they ended up using the ones for the community as shown in page 5 of chapter 26. Also at first the community insist on making the merchants make cash payment on purchase which in turn leads to security problems because those who cannot make the payments attempted to steal from the warehouse. That led to Rory forming the security with the captured siren as her subordinate. The community was later convinced to accept trading food straight from the farm instead of just accepting only cash because it is very dangerous travelling while carrying large amount of money and much later plans of opening PX over a few cities to reduce traffic coming over to Alnus for the imported goods from Japan.)

What Yao suggested is for the buyer to make a full deposit payment to have the rights for delivering the bolt of satin to the PX branch and than he can show the invoice of the deposit paid and claim ownership of it on the spot thus completing the process of delivery of goods and in the case that he did not make the delivery, the buyer run the risk of sullying his own reputation while the PX receive no losses at all since the satin is allready fully paid.

[truepurple]

Interesting how much meaning can change with a retranslation.

 

http://vatoto.com/read/_/198203/gate-thus-the-jsdf-fought-there_ch28v3_by_ak-scanlations/7

 

What about her traveling garbs suggest she hasn't had sex in awhile? Just that being a female traveler=not having sex?   But then he seems to call her a prostitute, going from saying she wasn't having sex to saying she was making a living from having sex.

 

What Yao suggested is for the buyer to make a full deposit payment to have the rights for delivering the bolt of satin to the PX branch and than he can show the invoice of the deposit paid and claim ownership of it on the spot thus completing the process of delivery of goods and in the case that he did not make the delivery, the buyer run the risk of sullying his own reputation while the PX receive no losses at all since the satin is allready fully paid.

 

Reading the latest version the problem and solution seems clear now. The seller doesn't want to sell at base price, since the buyer will turn around and sell for huge profit and supply is super tight as it is. Her solution is for the seller to sell for a price inbetween base price and price gotten elsewhere.

 

But what you are saying here seems to contradict this understanding. And what you said is confusing to me. A deposit is basically a partial payment, so "full deposit payment" is a little bit of a contradiction in terms. 

 

delivering the bolt of satin to the PX branch and than he can show the invoice of the deposit paid and claim ownership of it

 

To claim said bolt of satin delivered?

 

This is what it sounds like you are saying:

 

He pays to become a delivery person for the the bolt of satin, and then when the bolt is delivered, he just keeps it.  Or to put it another way, it would be like if the UPS guy had to pay, rather then was paid, to deliver packages, and then when he delivered the packages, he got to keep them.  Which makes no sense on a number of different levels, the most basic of which is, why bother delivering something you are just going to keep and take with you?

 

I don't understand what you are suggesting Kagetsuki, but it does seem to contradict what the latest version says. How can I know your version of understanding is the correct one?

 

Also, isn't he at the city of the PX branch? BTW, what does PX mean/stand for/what exactly is it? Like military supply office? Gift store? Brand/chain name?(like kmart etc.)

Edited by truepurple, 04 October 2013 - 09:45 AM.

[Top]

Also, isn't he at the city of the PX branch? BTW, what does PX mean/stand for/what exactly is it? Like military supply office? Gift store? Brand/chain name?(like kmart etc.)

 

PX is an acronym for Post Exchange.

 

The PX is a general store on US Army posts (Forts, Camps, etc) where soldiers and their dependents may purchase goods tax free. (The Air Force equivalent is the BX, the Base Exchange. I don't know what the Navy/Marine term would be).

 

These days the PX can assume the size of a small shopping mall. No food, aside from snacks, are sold in the PX proper, but there are usually fast food restaurants adjacent to or within the "mall" and an eating area. Foodstuffs are sold  in the Comissary (grocery store).

 

Apparently the JSDF adopted the term PX, possibly after they assumed control of military bases from the US in the 50's.

[Kagetsuki_Jin]

Reading the latest version the problem and solution seems clear now. The seller doesn't want to sell at base price, since the buyer will turn around and sell for huge profit and supply is super tight as it is. Her solution is for the seller to sell for a price inbetween base price and price gotten elsewhere.

 

But what you are saying here seems to contradict this understanding. And what you said is confusing to me. A deposit is basically a partial payment, so "full deposit payment" is a little bit of a contradiction in terms. 

 

 

To claim said bolt of satin delivered?

 

This is what it sounds like you are saying:

 

He pays to become a delivery person for the the bolt of satin, and then when the bolt is delivered, he just keeps it.  Or to put it another way, it would be like if the UPS guy had to pay, rather then was paid, to deliver packages, and then when he delivered the packages, he got to keep them.  Which makes no sense on a number of different levels, the most basic of which is, why bother delivering something you are just going to keep and take with you?

 

I don't understand what you are suggesting Kagetsuki, but it does seem to contradict what the latest version says. How can I know your version of understanding is the correct one?

 

Also, isn't he at the city of the PX branch? BTW, what does PX mean/stand for/what exactly is it? Like military supply office? Gift store? Brand/chain name?(like kmart etc.)

http://www.alphapolis.co.jp/manga/view_manga.php?no=242&page=5
I don't know how it ended up getting translated into talks about profits when they did not do so at all.
Here is the proper translation for it...accuracy of translation should be around the level of 90%+
だからーここじゃ小売はしてないですよ - Even so, we do not do retail sales here

某家のより素晴らしいドレスを我が娘に！- I want to have a dress more splendid than that of a certain family for my daughter!

できなければーわかっとるな? - If you can't, you know what happens right?

http://www.alphapolis.co.jp/manga/view_manga.php?no=242&page=6
この商人から保証金を積んでもらい荷を運んでもらう - Have this merchant pay a deposit and have him deliver the goods
保証金の預り証と引き替えに支店で品物を引き取るのだ - In exchange with the proof of deposit, you collect the goods from the branch

なるほどそれなら品が届かなくても損しませんね - I see, so even if the goods never get delivered I don't make any losses.
そのまま私が荷を買い取ってもいいので? And i am ok to just buy the goods as it is?

If you have doubt, you can try slapping some of the keywords into any online language converters and see for yourself. It should give you a rough idea in the accuracy of the translation.
Key words like 小売 & 保証金

[truepurple]

Accuracy aside Kagetsuki_Jin, meaning is very allusive in that translation.

 

Please define deposit in this context.

 

Deliver what goods? 

Collect what goods?

[malaclypse]

The use of the word 'denounce' rather than 'accusation' is amusing but also irritating. Other than that and a few instances where words seem to be left out at the end of speach bubbles, the v3 translation is a big improvement. Prior to v3 it was basically unreadable.

[Kagetsuki_Jin]

Accuracy aside Kagetsuki_Jin, meaning is very allusive in that translation.

 

Please define deposit in this context.

 

Deliver what goods? 

Collect what goods?

The deposit/security money was needed because the merchant that wanted to buy the satin was not someone hired to make a delivery in the first place. So a full payment of deposit is needed for it to act like a guarantee in case the buyer skipped out on the delivery portion. Those originally hired to make the deliveries all have mercenaries escorts hired by the PX mart run by the Alnus cooperative-living union that you can see in http://vatoto.com/read/_/179930/gate-thus-the-jsdf-fought-there_ch26_by_ak-scanlations/9

From what i see is that rather than trying to understand the idea of it, your question is more on the point of nitpicking on the actual single word proper English meaning for the word deposit. If you have a better word to translate 保証金, i would like to hear from you since to me deposit sounds more sensible out of the words deposit/guarantee/security money/bond payment.

The goods in the example explained by Yao is just a generalized term because Yao is just explaining the example without pointing out specifically on what was to be delivered. She is pointing out that they can "hire" that guy as an unofficial deliveryman because what the guy did is...instead of placing order and making his purchase from the PX branches(Retail stores), he went straight to the distributor's warehouse begging them to sell him some satin.

Do you think the distributor will sell a small amount of their product straight from the warehouse they have directly to a random buyer just because they go straight to them begging to buy some of it?(If the intended purchase is of large quantity, things may be different.)

Instead of a wanting proper translation, it makes me feel like I'm explaining things to people who wants to believe self-interpreted phrases that sounds like it makes sense but have absolutely nothing to do with the actual raw text is more important.

[truepurple]

From what i see is that rather than trying to understand the idea of it, your question is more on the point of nitpicking on the actual single word proper English meaning for the word deposit.

 

You see falsely

 

If you have a better word to translate 保証金, i would like to hear from you since to me deposit sounds more sensible out of the words deposit/guarantee/security money/bond payment.

 

I don't have a better word because I don't understand what is being described in the first place.

 

Do you think the distributor will sell a small amount of their product straight from the warehouse they have directly to a random buyer just because they go straight to them begging to buy some of it?(If the intended purchase is of large quantity, things may be different.)

 

You are contradicting yourself from earlier where you stated it was the bulk purchases that were being restricted.

 

So let me see if I got this straight.

 

The seller will not sell the satin to the buyer. Instead the seller will sell the buyer some other things, and then the PX warehouse will buy those items from the buyer, and in return sell the buyer some satin? Furthermore the PX warehouse is in another town that the seller can't simply take said items there directly? Or that the aforementioned transaction is just to get the buyer acquainted with the PX people?

 

If this is not right, please answer the questions I asked here and elsewhere, they were asked so that I might get a better understanding of how all this is suppose to work.

[Firehorse32]

I think I got this straight.

 

The buyer is not a retailer, wholesaler, or even a merchant. Just some guy or dressmaker wanting fabric to make a dress for someone.

The merchant is a wholesaler whom only sells to retailers.

So the buyer pays for all of the fabric and gains a bill of sale.

Buyer transports said fabric to retailer in other city and delivers the fabric.

Buyer then can use the bill of sale to recoup his initial investment to the wholesaler from the retailer, minus the fabric he needs for the dress.

Wholesaler protects his investment.

Buyer assumes risks of delivery.

Retailer is re-supplied (Should buyer complete the delivery).

Everyone gains a little from taking the risk.

 

Is that about the nutshell version?

[truepurple]

In your version firehorse, the buyer is left without the needed fabric, the fabric his noble women might take lethal revenge against him for not procuring.

[Firehorse32]

In your version firehorse, the buyer is left without the needed fabric, the fabric his noble women might take lethal revenge against him for not procuring.

 

No. He does get the fabric. Look closer. He doesn't get all of the fabric. Just what he needs.

[truepurple]

You said it here

 

Buyer then can use the bill of sale to recoup his initial investment to the wholesaler from the retailer, minus the fabric he needs for the dress.

 

What point is there for him to  bother with all that if he is left without the fabric needed for the dress?

[Kagetsuki_Jin]

I think I got this straight.

 

The buyer is not a retailer, wholesaler, or even a merchant. Just some guy or dressmaker wanting fabric to make a dress for someone.

The merchant is a wholesaler whom only sells to retailers.

So the buyer pays for all of the fabric and gains a bill of sale.

Buyer transports said fabric to retailer in other city and delivers the fabric.

Buyer then can use the bill of sale to recoup his initial investment to the wholesaler from the retailer, minus the fabric he needs for the dress.

Wholesaler protects his investment.

Buyer assumes risks of delivery.

Retailer is re-supplied (Should buyer complete the delivery).

Everyone gains a little from taking the risk.

 

Is that about the nutshell version?

 Yup, more or less its like how you explained it. Only thing is the buyer runs a bigger risk than the wholesaler because he does not have any protection along the way. If he gets robbed or just simply runs away without doing the delivery, it does not hurt the wholesaler at all since full payment was made. The retailers are just PX branches opened in other cities, if delivery wasn't made, they will still get stock via caravans hired by the the main branch in Alnus.

You said it here

 

 

What point is there for him to  bother with all that if he is left without the fabric needed for the dress?

I think what he meant is, after delivery is made, the buyer shows the retailer the bill of sale to collect back the full payment he made, after that he can just make his purchase there or he could just get some of the fabric he needed as a reward for making the delivery.

[Firehorse32]

The thing with wholesale is that it is generally only done in bulk. So the buyer has to buy at least a minimum allotment of fabric in order to make the purchase. Obviously he will not need all of the fabric, so by selling what he doesn't need to the retailer at the destination he recoups his up front investment while still obtaining the fabric. The bill of sale could have been made up accounting for the amount of fabric the buyer would retain for the dress, so that he could make his full investment back. He would be selling less fabric to the retailer for the same amount that he purchased the whole lot for, the difference being accounted for as his delivery cost to the retailer.  So he gets the fabric at no real cost to himself if he makes a successful delivery to the retailer. That is how I'd work it at any rate.

[imercenary]

Elves are perverts at least in this manga. Just looks at their first solution that came to their mind to a problem.

 

http://vatoto.com/read/_/194401/gate-thus-the-jsdf-fought-there_v1_ch7_by_ak-scanlations/21

 

Women whoring themselves out during war/occupation is (not was, is) a common method of obtaining protection and food/goods/money/information. Its the dirty, not-so-secret aspect of warfare. Sometimes it turns into true love (soldiers bringing married women home after being stationed overseas), other times it goes bad (officers being assassinated) and other times its made to go horribly, horribly wrong (the occupiers systematically forcing women to do so.) Soldiers are less likely to say "fuck it, arrest them cause they're pissing me off" if their 'lover' says they'll make them stop throwing insults at them and more likely to share their rations.