23 replies to this topic

[storyeater]

So,Luffy seems like quite the idiot hero,but there are three clues that point otherwise (actually two and a half.)

1)He seems quite the ethical-social genius.He seems to know what to do, most of the time,to help others,up and including manipulating other people to punch him (see Coby,the first instance)and knowing exactly when to take action (see Arlong). And who would forget his ( justified due to his tragic backstory )social commentary on war,on Alabasta? Even with the afforementioned past,it does not seem like something a dumb character would say.

2)He is a fighting genius. Now,you might be thinking that most idiot heroes are fighting geniuses while otherwise dumb,but most of them either have an excuse (Naruto was forced to act like a fool,outside and inside in order to survive the problems he had,while never actually being a fool,just putting himself to one's role) or not really foolish,just overly cheery,optimistic and overconfident (Natsu).Also let's not forget that Dragonball,one of the favorites of Oda as inspiration, may have looked like that,but upon further inspection it gives three possible causes of Goku's stupidity: one,he hit his head when litle which caused him amnesia,but it could have possibly caused him minor brain damage,two,he is a genius,but due to his upbrigings and due to the situations he faced afterwards,just very socially inept,to the point of being unable to be retaught by chi-chi and,3)He was member of a race of warriors, which could mean that he was more advanced on the "battle-thinking" department.

3)This is Oda we are talking about.Really, he is good at giving crazy illogical answers...but he is also good at doing incredibly well-hidden, and yet obvious, foreshadowing.The first use of conqueror's haki,for example,was...ch.1.Yeah.By Shanks, against the sea monster (not sure if it was a sea king,so I will call it a monster for now).

So...what do you think?does it foreshadows anything,is Luffy secretly a genius or is it just Oda playing tricks with our mind again?

Edited by storyeater, 24 January 2013 - 04:51 PM.

[Anvica]

My vote is that his grandfather's ruthless training as a kid caused him to become a fighting genius.
Definitely a case of below.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ObfuscatingStupidity

[storyeater]

Yeah,I have seen the page,and I am a troper...but this discussion is for troper and non-troper manga appreciators alike!Anyone who wants to add his own opinion,you are welcome.

Edited by storyeater, 24 January 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[zetina]

I think the trope site puts it quite well.
Luffy just has a simple, free-spirited world-view - "just take down the big bad", "go do what you want"
He doesn't have the attention span for studies and so doesn't get the more academical information or other complexities. And why bother? Intelligence doesn't come from how much you know but how you use what you know. (idk about IQ) An example of this would be - Luffy finds out that Croc is weak to water. He then uses this information to beat him down with a water supply and later blood. He then also somehow thought of his Gears from watching the CP9..
He's also pretty open-minded. He's willing to accept you as a good person even though you did something bad. (I remember him saying things like "so you're a good/bad guy after all!".) He was also willing to accept his crew changing A LOT when he returned to Sabaody...

But really he just has his own way of thinking. Sometimes other people don't understand him and call it being an idiot. But, well, "weird" and "idiot" are close. I mean, stupid people just have some kind of weird way of thinking that doesn't allow them to get some concepts, right? Something like that.

[shade]

luffy does have the needed attenion span for studies as seen when he mastered the basics of the three hakis in 1.5 years insted of 3

[Draconis381]

It's always been my understanding that IQ isnt a good measurment of knowlage or inteligence, as it is acurately ment to represent a persons ability to apply knowlage. Example: a person with a low IQ can get a perfect score on a test while a HIgh IQ can get a 0, just because the high IQ has no knowlage to apply, while the low IQ person did.
Furthermore, a persons personality has has no real merit when trying to measure IQ, so you can be a Goofy idiot, or a very serious person, and still have the same level of IQ.
Luffy has shown the ability to apply the things he knows very efficently and has a great ability to adapt new knowlage. However he shows remarkable little interest in learning anything new. Given this, I'ld say he has an above average IQ. So, If you can convince Luffy its worth learning, He'll probally do great at it.

[Vice Admiral Luffy]

i'd simply say Luffy is an eccentric genius in his own right. Nobody can understand the way a geniuses mind works and to most they the simply appear idiotic (on a side note i know how ridiculous this sounds!)

[Baltringue29]

@Draconis : don't forget that IQ test are made by people (generally psychologist and others) so it only reflect what these people think of what a genius is. (plus IQ test are re-writen about each decade to reflect general IQ of the population (it's asumed it's an ever growing thing over generations) with a 100 score being average in statistic (applying standard deviation)....but i'm slipping off the subject) So IQ test are highly subjective because they are influenced by the peoples who design them.

[Pearlday]

IQ is about how quickly one learns

If someone has a high IQ it means they learn quickly
If someone has a low IQ it means it takes a long time for them to learn- usually things need to be repeated or practiced a great deal.

Person H may study 1 hour a day to get a 90 on a test because she has a high IQ
While Person L needs to study 8 hours a day to get that same 90 on the test, because of her low IQ

Of course, if Person H was never given the material, she wouldn't have learned it, thus would have failed. IQ is just about how quickly one can learn and understand. Intelligence and Academic Performance is different. Just because you learn quickly, doesn't mean you have the motivation/dedication to achieve. Person H can skip class excessively and fail all her tests because she doesn't care to pay attention. She might fail because of behavior issues that deter her from concentrating.

Also, isn't everything, every test, subjective? Even facts, morals, ethics, opinions, - everything is twisted and judged. I don't think psychologists and the IQ tests are any less subjective than any other. IQ - how quickly one learns- is I think relatively accurately tested. Maybe it's the reactions and interpretations of these tests that are in error. High IQ doesn't mean one is smart, or one has common sense, or street smarts. It just means one learns quickly- that's it. Any excess information is interpretations. High IQ doesn't mean genius.

[Kokai]

I'd say luffys IQ is pretty low (that sounds horrible) but his EQ is high.

[Wraithraiser]

Luffy's not really stupid, he's just a bit airheaded at times with some things, while with other things he has a high level of deductive reasoning. It's a bit unfair to say his IQ is low when it's not the case really  - and IQ isn't measured with just one field, on the basis of his entire character his IQ's fairly good, maybe not incredibly high like Sengoku or others, but still decent enough for him to have his moments. 

[Kokai]

Luffy's not really stupid, he's just a bit airheaded at times with some things, while with other things he has a high level of deductive reasoning. It's a bit unfair to say his IQ is low when it's not the case really  - and IQ isn't measured with just one field, on the basis of his entire character his IQ's fairly good, maybe not incredibly high like Sengoku or others, but still decent enough for him to have his moments. 

what I meant to say is that luffy is not very good at thinking things through but has excellent intuition. rather than thinking, he goes by "feeling".  well you can't really measure intelligence and something like "IQ" has no meaning really, IQ is more like a set of skills you can train rather than something inborn. So the prerequisite that we are discussing his IQ rather than intelligence made it rather difficult for me.

 

I tried to liken IQ to intelligence and EQ to intuition, which is of course neither accurate nor right but given that I am a dumbass it was the best I could come up with. Luffy isn't smart BUT his intuition (or street smarts) or whatever you wanna call it is enormous.  Enough for him to survive against cunning and "intelligent" people like crocodile, lucci or sengoku.

So is Luffy smart: probably no. Is he a dumbass: definitily no.

[Dragon88]

Dude you can't measure IQs.  There can be questions in IQ one person never had to deal with while there can be a stupid person who only knows the questions in IQs.  Its practically impossible to measure a IQ level with a test.  You have to talk to the person for like at least one whole week and see what they know and their understanding level.

 

To me Luffy is very interesting.  He is not particularly smart or knows a lot but he is very wise and one of the wisest character in the series.  He might be the wisest person in his whole crew.  Luffy's 2 main strength is that he is strong and wise.  He makes sound good judgments which he needs to as a captain and he is strong enough to protect his crew.

 

And one other thing smart and wise are not the same thing.  I would say Nami is lot more smarter then Luffy, but Luffy is much more wiser.  Same thing applies with Usopp.  Though granted the whole crew is becoming wiser.  For example the best comparison would have to be Luffy and Chopper.  Chopper is very smart as he is a great doctor but he is not wise, he would make stupid judgement call at times but Luffy is less smarter then Chopper but is way more wiser and make good judgement call.

[Profane69]

IQ or intelligence is your ability at problemsolving, wisdom is knowing that there are more than one right answer.   Well thats my opinion on the whole thing and by that standard luffy is quite intelligent.

[Dragon88]

IQ or intelligence is your ability at problemsolving, wisdom is knowing that there are more than one right answer.   Well thats my opinion on the whole thing and by that standard luffy is quite intelligent.

Exactly, by that standard Luffy is very intelligent.  He has good understanding of things.  And the thing is that he really doesn't have time to worry about other detail things like navigation and so on.  He has crew mates that does that so his only concern is making right judgement call as a captain and become the strongest so he can protect the crew.

[GodOfAll]

All the misconceptions about knowledge. I give up. Luffy is intelligent but does not possess a high IQ, notable by his lack of the general knowledge of his world.

[Dragon88]

All the misconceptions about knowledge. I give up. Luffy is intelligent but does not possess a high IQ, notable by his lack of the general knowledge of his world.

It depends on the word we use.  Everyone probably means the same thing but the word we are using are probably not the right ones.  Vocabulary is important.

[cryberry]

I think Luffy has selective learning.  He only learns what interests him and will help him become a better pirate/fighter.  Or he could be someone who learns pretty quickly (what he wants) and ignores the rest of the details.  He could also be someone who has a wide understanding of things and chooses to act on his own beliefs.

[Dragon88]

I think Luffy has selective learning.  He only learns what interests him and will help him become a better pirate/fighter.  Or he could be someone who learns pretty quickly (what he wants) and ignores the rest of the details.  He could also be someone who has a wide understanding of things and chooses to act on his own beliefs.

I agree and that is what makes him so great.  Remember something, if you focus on too many things, you would be lost in life and not do anything much.  The thing that I love about Luffy is that he really focuses on his dream of becoming the PK.  He doesn't get distracted with useless things.  His goal is to become the strongest fighter in order to protect the people he cares for and to make good judgement and to get good crew members.  These are very mature well thought out decisions.  He really is a great captain just needs more experience.

[aang_sapi]

I think Luffy has selective learning.  He only learns what interests him and will help him become a better pirate/fighter.  Or he could be someone who learns pretty quickly (what he wants) and ignores the rest of the details.  He could also be someone who has a wide understanding of things and chooses to act on his own beliefs.

 

This post kinda reminds me of Taki, the Tight End of Deimon Devil Bats (from Eyeshield 21), who's only a fast learner when it comes to American Football.

The same as luffy, not that he's dumb so he ain't know sh1t about the world, he just doesn't give it a damn.

And yep, Luffy's pretty smart when it comes to the things he loves, like fighting and being a captain. I mean, like how others consider his gomu- gomu fruit is just some lame as* power, but he still ended up beating the hell outta those with better devil fruit power.