85 replies to this topic

[Hollowcantaro]

"like spaniards did with the aztec and maya, the americans with the native americans, the nazi with the jews..."

Jesus mother ******* christ (sounding all murrican and s***) Japan, y u no history?

"might the japanese end up doing the same thing?"

Implying implications... like it never happened before...

Edited by Hollowcantaro, 23 December 2012 - 07:39 PM.

[Labrys]

Are you implying that the Spaniards *didn't* conquer the Aztec and Mayans?

[Funfreek]

No Im thinking he is talking about WWII and Japans Imperlist polices that led up to the Pacific Theater.

Also the item, Nazis with the Jews, is noticably unrelated to the others.

[Atreides]

Are you implying that the Spaniards *didn't* conquer the Aztec and Mayans?

Well, actually the Incas and Aztecs were conquered but the Mayan civilization collapsed long before the arrival of the Spaniards. There were still people living there, but no longer a unified political or cultural entity.

Edited by Atreides, 28 December 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[Labrys]

Well, actually the Incas and Aztecs were conquered but the Mayan civilization collapsed long before the arrival of the Spaniards. There were still people living there, but no longer a unified political or cultural entity.

True, there were multiple independant settlements, but they still apparently identified themselves as "Mayan" which were then subsequently conquered by the Spaniards

As for the Nazi's and Jews bit, yeah. Not much I can say there.

Edited by Labrys, 29 December 2012 - 06:26 PM.

[erejnion]

I... have the feeling that the Japanese reprecursions of China/Pacific didn't happen in that continuity.

I mean, China is 2 billion instead of just one and something.

To elaborate,
It's probably meant as a way to lessen that severe national guild of Japan, in order to make the army intervention on the other side of the Gate more believable. Or something.

Edited by erejnion, 05 January 2013 - 02:35 AM.

[Discar]

Yeah, Japan has a history of pretending the whole mess with WWII didn't happen...especially Nanking. It's actually an interesting look at the way propaganda works. In Germany, the Allies had speakers at every street corner reminding the Germans of what the Nazis did, how horrible it was, and how the German people needed to take responsibility for it and all that. But since the Japanese worship their ancestors (okay, maybe "worship" is a strong word), especially soldiers who died in battle, they knew that if they tried that trick on the Japanese, the entire population would be driven into a berserk rage, nukes or no.

And so, they quietly swept the whole thing under the rug.

Edited by Discar, 08 January 2013 - 08:27 PM.

[Hollowcantaro]

True, there were multiple independant settlements, but they still apparently identified themselves as "Mayan" which were then subsequently conquered by the Spaniards As for the Nazi's and Jews bit, yeah. Not much I can say there.

Actually the Mayans were Aztec's slaves, and most of the slave-territories conquered by tthe Aztecs had to pay a prize sending human sacrifices... no wonder why Spaniads had a huuuuuuuuuge local tribal support.... that is something that today's Americans (S.A, Mexicans, Caribeans,etc..) usually "forget".

[imercenary]

Thats normal. Try taking a political science class.

Pretty much every culture believes that "things were better back then" despite historical evidence disproving it.

If you REALLY want to provoke a historical argument though, you should point out how EVERYONE like to bash on the U.S. to the point that the American public has become self-loathing (and then the rest of the world wonders why the American public tells the world to fuck off whenever to come asking for help).

Edited by imercenary, 09 January 2013 - 11:38 PM.

[Labrys]

Actually the Mayans were Aztec's slaves, and most of the slave-territories conquered by tthe Aztecs had to pay a prize sending human sacrifices... no wonder why Spaniads had a huuuuuuuuuge local tribal support.... that is something that today's Americans (S.A, Mexicans, Caribeans,etc..) usually "forget".

Oh yeah, the loved it when the Spaniards came in to conquer the Aztecs. Then the Spaniards turned to conquering everything else and Bam, Colonialism at work.

[Profane69]

It's about a superior tech society obliterating a less advanced society, this can happen either through military means or cultural assimilation, in the case of china although horrible things did happen and alot of people died, japan did not succeed at obliterating the chinese.

And the nazi's and jew bit does not belong in that comparison.

[oliverwashere]

I thought modern people got over officially conquering and colonizing. Instead we occupy, extort, and try to get good publicity with the guys back home. That or fund proxy wars.

Edited by oliverwashere, 21 January 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[Graeystone]

The thing about the Azetcs vs. Spaniards is that the Spanish had a lot of local help. Sooner or later people don't come to like government enforced human sacrifices which the Aztecs did quite a bit of.
The Japanese denial of some of the stuff they did in WW2 is like the Neo-A**hole denial of the holocaust. . .

[Belruel]

If there's anything to compare it to, I'd compare the manga to Japanese and the Ainu. Basically, the Ainu were a group of ancient people who migrated in to modern-day Hokkaido from modern-day Russia. They had many physical characteristics of Europeans and were an animalistic society of hunter-gatherers. There was a large technology gap between their bronze-age technology and the iron-age technology of Japan at the time. The result was that the Ainu were obliterated. There might be a few memorials and one or two reservations for them, but I'm not certain.

Also, in terms of conquest, people have found it much more cost-effective to conquer through economics rather than the military. It seems like the story is heading in that direction now, especially with the introduction of commercial interests and intelligence agencies. We'll see how it gets handled though. It's been a pretty straight-forward manga so far.

Edited by Belruel, 31 January 2013 - 12:05 AM.

[imercenary]

I thought modern people got over officially conquering and colonizing. Instead we occupy, extort, and try to get good publicity with the guys back home. That or fund proxy wars.

Define "modern". Cause Russia still occupies the nation of Georgia.

[Hollowcantaro]

If you REALLY want to provoke a historical argument though, you should point out how EVERYONE like to bash on the U.S. to the point that the American public has become self-loathing

We are not talking abut USA, I was talking about anoher issue. Aka japanese denying WW2 crimes to modern generations and distorting other countries' history

It's about a superior tech society obliterating a less advanced society, this can happen either through military means or cultural assimilation, in the case of china although horrible things did happen and alot of people died, japan did not succeed at obliterating the chinese.
And the nazi's and jew bit does not belong in that comparison.

I know what you mean and it could be modern vs old military but he first it compares Spanish conquering of America with what England and later the seed of the US did with the north american tribes... saying that it is "unaccurate" would be just an insult.
Then SUDDENLY compares THOSE whit the Holocaust and forgets about WHAT Japan did in the WW2...
You have to be very... *********** (the author I mean)

Edited by Hollowcantaro, 03 February 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[imercenary]

We are not talking abut USA, I was talking about anoher issue. Aka japanese denying WW2 crimes to modern generations and distorting other countries' history

Except its the same issue. Japanese deny WWII crimes and distort other countries histories? Guess what? OTHER COUNTRIES DO THAT TOO. ALL. THE. TIME.

Middle Eastern countries have portrayed the U.S. as a pawn of the big bad infidel Zionist Israel that wants to conquer to the Holy Land.
The U.S. spent decades portraying Russia as a Big Brother super-evil Commie state that had to be destroyed/contained to protect democracy.
England and France hated each other's guts for centuries with every imaginable insult/false claim you can think of (because they literally made it up and had it put down into the history books).
China rewrote their own history to make Chinese emperors look better/Chinese enemies look worse.
North Korea hates EVERYONE.

And Japan covers up Japanese WWII war crimes. But they're totally an anomaly. They're not like the Turks who deny the Armenian Genocide.

[scope_1]

Also from that manga i have an impression, that there are no other countries at all besides japan.

[Hollowcantaro]

They're not like the Turks who deny the Armenian Genocide.

Go ask the Chinese and Filipinos... and most of the countries invaded by japanese.

The thing is I don't see Germans writing novels and drawing comics claiming that other countries were nazis and asking "would germany become the same?" on 2012.

And please stop trying to teach things that everybody knows, we are speaking about Japan and the way they keep avoiding and deniying those issues. And speaking about putting false history in the books go check the news from 2-3 years ago and what happened with the Japanese text books...

And been French I know most of the things my country did wrong as I know what Spain or England did... facepalm.jpg

Edited by Hollowcantaro, 12 March 2013 - 11:07 PM.